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Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Drew
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http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu//General/Internet/WWW/HTMLPrimerP3.html#II
I mean, can the car be programmed to use all twelve clinders at all times, like (duh!) a V12 should?
For those who have driven both the S55 and S600: which of the two would you choose, considering everything?
Can you get Chrome 18 inch AMG wheels factory or retailer installed?
Is the sport package of the S class the same way as the one for he CLK, in that it makes the cal feel flimsy? Or is it of better quality?
Thank you all
What are you after in one of these upscale models? Exclusivity abounds in either, but the S55 is the more sporting of the two, and the S600 is pure elegance and ultimate luxury.
You can get the chrome 220s installed by the dealer, although, on the S55 they are polished already and look pretty sharp (not plain silver like the sport package). As for the sport package, the panels are of the same quality as those found on the CLK, which is in my opinion not that bad.
As for the aversion to the cylinder cutout, I don't believe it can be disengaged. Interesting question though. I'm not sure what if any performance implications there are, although the 600 cars seem they could be a little faster off the line than they are. This feature coupled with the heavy weight could be reason? Would be interesting to find out how long this process takes to come on line after you drop the hammer. If it is negligible, then it may only represent an upside (efficiency) feature for you to consider. For tooling around town the 600 will feel a bit heavier also.
Good luck. Good dilemma to have I suppose...
Finally I would be interested to know if anyone has had the dealer installed leather and wood trimmed steering wheel and if the wood matches the interior wood as well as the factory installed option. Thanks.
Drew
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I would go for an S600 if you want the V12, but the S55 is one fine and quick car. The ABC is great, you should definetly get it especially if you like adjusting the car for different driving patterns.
The ventilated seats work great, although the fans aren't as powerful as I thought they would be. For pathdoc, if you live in a warmer climate, I would definetly get the ventilated seats. Actually, I recommend the 4-place seating with ventilated seats because you can treat everyone to even nicer seats.
I hope this will help everyone, and if you have any more specific questions about any of the features, please post them.
JAMES.
It is a shame you can't have the leather dash and the extra wood optional in the S 500 or S55. That actually the reason I am considering the 600 over the 55 or even over the 500. But I guess this is the only way of making the 600 more appealing for the extra dough.
Doesn't four place seating limit your hauling capacity to four? Why have that, when you can have power heated rear seats and still carry three people in the back?
Thanks
The 4-Place seating package gives 4 dynamic multicontour seats, basically like the front seats, for all the passengers. Also it is something different that most people have not seen and they usually find it interesting. Add the ventilated seats and it is actually a very comfortable seat.
One note to pass on is that the next generation of AMG engines will be supercharged. The reason is to make up for the three valves per cylinder and the longer stroke (which for MB purposes gets the ULEV designation. This is one reason that MB usually has more torque than HP, take a look at the MB v. BMW. This will give more competition.
Robert
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Do you think the dealers will have such a tape? If yes, I will have to go there, although i hat gong to dealers, they will always try to sell you something else, at least in my area. I need this tape so bad, because my in-laws don't speak English very well and they are not able to mater the instructioins.
Drive the S-Class to the dealer and make them sit down with you and explain the system. Watching a video on using the navigation system is analagous to learning how to type by reading a book. It's way too involved, and it needs some personal attention.
I can tell you firsthand (2001 S500) that once you learn the system, it really is intuitive. There'a learning curve, but it all seems to come together in the end.
So - make the dealer do what they should have done in the 1st place -- spend the time and instruct their customers. If enough buyers demand this level of new car delivery instruction, I'm sure Mercedes will be forced to create some sort of easier means to learn.
Plus - if you think you have it bad, my wifes' ML has a TOTALLY different Navigation System. Going between vehicles can be a challenge (never mind that Mercedes create a HUGE safety issue by placing the major COMMAND controls on the right side of the dash. Guess that's why they built the vehicle to survive rollovers, etc.
Good luck
Is the black bar the newer design? What does everyone else have on their cars? Thanks in advance.
If I can expect significant repair bills on an ongoing basis, this would kill the deal for me. Buying the car you've drooled over for five years and then finding out its a dud really takes the fun out of it. (This happened to me with a 300ZX, so no more Nissans...) Thanks in advance for your help!
I personally check the tires ever two weeks or so.
Drew
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Drew
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Outside Chicago O'hare airport I saw a BMW 750il with a MB V12 emblem on the C-pilar like the 600 series has on it. HA!
RObert
The tire pressure ratings for German cars seem to me to be set with high speed, mirror-smooth Autobahn driving conditions in mind and are often unduly firm for American urban areas.
I recall an article not long ago by LJK Setright of the British magazine, "Car," who made exactly the same argument.
Given the extensively potholed, cracked, frost-heaved, and otherwise highly uneven streets and highways I regularly find myself on, I've learned to take the rear tire pressures down 4 or 5 pounds, sometimes even 6 pounds, from the manufacturers' ratings. This gives me much, much better ride quality, and only diminishes the handling limits ever so slightly. I'd say that most drivers would not sense any meaningful change in the balance and "feel" of the car at all. I've done this for the better part of 15 years now with one Porsche 911, a BWM 740i, and 4 M-Benzs, including an E500 (where it made only a slight difference -- the car rode well already), and 2 SLs (where it made an enormous difference -- indeed I may have gone through a set of tires ever so slightly faster, but on the other hand, when I gave up my 1995 SL500 it was as tight and rattle-free as the day I bought it, despite traveling 77,000 miles in and out of NYC everyday for 4 years).
I intend to do the same with my new S500 with the AMG Sports Package when it arrives at the end of the month. Especially, now that the consensus seems to be that the ABC suspension option seems to add a bit of harshness to the car's ride (thanks very much for the dead wrong advice, MB techs in Montvale). If you order the optional dashboard tire pressuring monitoring system, as I did, keeping track of the state of your tires is easy. Forget checking it every two weeks -- I can check it on the fly!
A couple of notes of caution for any of you who want to experiment as I have. While I consider this a safe thing to do if you don't go overboard, I wouldn't recommend reducing your pressures if you have any ambition to try for a top speed run on an open stretch of highway you may have been eyeing. There isn't a day that I don't hit 100 MPH on my way to work on a particularly fast interstate that's part of my morning commute, and I am very hard on the car on entrance and exit ramps (which is why I keep the front tires within a pound or two of factory spec...in contrast to the rears), BUT anything much beyond that speed is pushing your luck, in my judgment. If 110 MPH or higher is a part of your regular daily driving diet, or if you are lucky enough to be able to travel at sustained high speeds for hours at a time, then keep the pressures where the factory recommends them. And certainly, if you do adjust your pressures down, keep a watchful eye on them, as any significant further drop due to neglect, unusually cold weather, or a slow leak, can lead to tire over heating and ultimately catastrophic tire failure. Not to mention that inordinately low pressures will tend to throw the rear end of the car out wildly which would be a most unwelcome surprise during hard cornering.
Secondly, reducing the tire pressures WILL at all times adversely effect traction during snow and rain storms (though really, really low pressures on glare ice -- I'm talking sheer frozen lake conditions now -- actually may be of some benefit). So, stick with the factory recommended set up during seriously inclement weather -- or be more cautious, at the very least.
Personally I inflate my tires 2 psi above the manufacturer's suggested cold tire specs for a normal load since I prefer slightly less sidewall flex.
Drew
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Tom
1. Great car for 123K
2. A bit rough on the ride due to ABC. I don't agree with this, since I have ABC with my 2001 S500.
3. 5.4 sec in 0-60 vs. 6.1 sec for S500
4. ABC improves lateral G to .82 vs. "non-ABC" S500 of .75. I had always wanted to know the ABC differences! YES!
5. S500 has a little better subjective comfort rating than the S600
6. C&D seems to like the Audio S8 sports sedan more than the E55, S55, or even the BMW M5.
It's nice to have a V12, but I am very happy so far with my S500 + distronics+ABC. Still impresses me after 7 months! Biggest 4-door Porsche I'd ever owned.
Paul
Wait until you try the S55 if you think the S500 is a 4-door Porsche. It's not quite as blindlingly fast as the E55 and CLK55, but it's close. It just leaps away from other cars on the highway -- that's the sign of a truly fast car, in my judgment, and something the S500 can't quite accomplish.
Still, the S500 is very satisfying, and since the dealer gave me $3500 off on a Silver AMG Sports Package, ABC equipped S500, vs only $1000 off on the much more expensive S55, and since I know I'll put 80K or 90K miles on this car and I worried that the S55, mighty as it is, might not hold up as well, that's the way I went, too.
With regard to the previous tire pressure discussion, I'd like to add one more comment: The manufacturers recommended settings are really what manufacturers feel to be the best compromise between performance and ride quality. If you're a hard charging autocrosser, higher pressure settings than spec are certainly the way to go. But, if like George3 and I, the Cross Bronx or some other woefully pockmarked thoroughfare is a familiar route, then softer than spec will not only save your backside and sanity, it'll help reduce the rattles to a minimum, and may even keep various and sundry suspension and engine parts from prematurely wearing, loosening, and eventually failing.
The rear tires are the most important tires when it comes to ride quality, so that's what most people reduce a bit to get some added suppleness.
As for overheating, that can certainly happen at high speed if you take the tire pressures too far down. But a 16 percent reduction from say, 36 lbs. to 30 lbs. at the rear, shouldn't create any problems and will make a noticeable difference in the car's ride.
If a rear tire does blow whether from overheating or other factors, any M-Benz is far less likely to flip than an Explorer or Expedition obviously, even in the hands of the truly ham-fisted. And if it somehow does go end over end, the odds of survival in a Benz, even in a roll over, are extraordinarily good, something that can't be said for any domestic SUV (save perhaps an ML class!).
Still, it's a great car. I can certainly see why many covet it even as it approaches its dotage.
I'm also torn by the small car/big car comparison. On the one hand, nothing approaches the ride, comfort, interior luxury, and utility of a big car like the S Class. But something about smaller, relatively compact cars has always attracted me. They're easier to park, easier to manoeuver in traffic and when backing up, and usually are far more responsive in their handling -- in general they're easier to manage which counts for a lot when your litterly in a car every single day, day after day.
Then again, maybe the essence of the E55's problem for me is that it's neither fish nor fowl. It's not a truly small, responsive car, like CLK55 or the SL500 which replaced my E500 after just 8 months and which I enjoyed far more, and it's not the big, comfortable, luxurious, yet still relatively fast car that the S Class is.
Or, maybe it really just all comes down to a shallow matter of looks. The AMG equipped S500 is far prettier to my eye than the E55 AMG, and so is the CLK55. From some angles, the E55 looks very frumpy to my eye, just as my previous E500 looked dowdy in comparison to my much more modern (at that time) SL500.
Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm certain there are many who find the E55 perfect in just about every respect.
Thats a new one to me
Robert
M
what do you mean the 600 has less of a subjective rating than S500?
Is that harshness in the ride of the 600 maybe due to the radials which come as standard?
5.4 sec. from 0-60 mph? Wow, your benz must have been warmed up really well. New, they may hopefully break 5.9 s. What was your method of testing? you might have overlooked a half a second there. However I sure am glad to hear a 600 benz can do that eventually
please keep us posted
Where can I get the manual explaining all
the bells and whistles on it?
I hope I don't burst your bubble, but my E500 was a pain. Yes, it had incredible acceleration, a great ride, and the best high beam headlights I've ever had to this point, but frankly, everything else about it was wanting.
It was assembled by Porsche rather than M-Benz, and at least on mine, you could tell. That thing spent more time in the shop than it did on the road. It got so bad, the MB rep offered to pick up one of my payments as compensation (I'm not kidding).
The last straw was when the traction control module failed coming out of DQ parking lot, leaving me with the acceleration of one of MBs diesel models -- while a large dump truck was bearing down on me. After getting over the scare, I limped home at 15 or 20 MPH (all it would do!) and put it up for sale (once MB had towed it away and repaired it, of course).
Even without the problems, I would have been happy to see it go. While the acceleration was great, the handling was poor compared to my previous SL and 911 (an unfair comparison, I know -- I suppose I just wasn't ready for a sedan at that time in my life). It felt like the modest sedan it really was, not the thoroughbred it looked like. And little things like the climate control system were dated and didn't work well which is most impractical if you intend to use the car every day as I did (not to mention that the HVAC smelled like gas all the time).
Fortunately, the car that followed, a 1995 navy blue SL500 was the best car I ever had. No problems, plenty of power, a reasonably supple ride, great handling, and never a rattle, even after almost 80K miles. I'd have kept it had it had a modest back seat for children (which I need now that I'm married).
I have high hopes that my new S500 will be as good a car.