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Mercedes-Benz S-Class
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Comments
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/w211.htm
Drew
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Pat
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Sedans Message Board
The E will resemble more the S-class. Finally the E gets those sporty looks that may give it the edge over a 5 series.
Will the E indeed have a 500 engine on it? great, after all even the ML is getting it. I sure hope they offer the airmatic suspension with it.
As good as the e will look, still it will be hard for me to divert the eyes off of the S-class. After all the S is one of the most beautiful cars ever coming from a MB assembly line, the most technically advanced too. I just hope the MB will correct those minor quality glitches in the near future. A better tire package(17 inch 255/55 maybe on a better wheel design, or dare I say that of the current 600 models) and the introduction of a 4matic option would help matter.
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/w211.htm
Drew
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Thanks for hanging in there!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html
That was a crock. The LS430 may be made by the same company that makes a Camry and Tercel and Avalon (all front wheel drive 4 and 6 cylinder cars), but they're so far apart from the LS that you can hardly say it's a thinly disguised Toyota. Also saying it's more suited for women is rather sexist. What makes you say that?
The LS430 and MB S430 and S500 are all terrific cars. The S430 and S500 are overpriced by about $10K, but still terrific.
As far as looks, I think the S430 with 16" wheels (I think that's the basic size) looks lame, just as the LS430 does. I saw a silver S600 with 19 or 20" Lorinser wheels that looked unbelievable the other day. I also saw a silver LS430 with 17" factory chrome wheels (and I'm not into chrome wheels) that also looked great. But I agree the LS430 with 16s looks unbalanced and pretty fugly. But color and wheels can make a big difference.
That's interesting because for the past few years, MB has halved the dealer profit margin for all of their vehicles. They make a lot less than they used to. It has been said that Lexus could cut their profit margins as much as MB has, but there is still enough markup for them to easily make significantly more than the MB dealer would.
The S-classes has always been around that price level. I suppose that is what makes it a rather exclusive model, along with the SL and CL-class.
The 16" wheels for the S-class aren't too bad, IMHO, but the sport wheels are great! The tradeoff is that like other cars, the larger wheels = lower sidewall, and hence a higher chance that the wheels will get damaged by debris, potholes or curbs. The lower sidewall also results in a firmer ride due to cushioning from tire, as well as higher unsprung weight. It's also quite difficult to find winter tires for 17" wheels, unless you buy another set of 4 dedicated wheels for winter tires only.
There is also another explanation as to why MBzs (and BMW or Volvo) are more expensive:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/european/mbmc/m15466.html
Good luck,
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
--I -- M -- O
The S interior was very expansive and luxurious. Very open and cockpit like (a bit more swooshy than the previous models. Handled extremely well. ABC extremely helpful, kept the S flat on the road. Handled like I expected it to. My father drove it too...and he had one comment, its SLOW... (keep im mind our other cars are CLK55 and E55, however I dont live with him any more
The car had a certain firmness that you just knew that the car was dead on the road. Although I love how our 560SEL did feel.
The LS very nice inside and out. We drove the fully loaded one with ML sound system, however we did not have a cd . EXTREMELY quiet but still on the light side of steering and just didnt handle. I do not like this lack of road feel -- but thats me. My father, while retired, does like to take the turns and the Lexus did not fit him. The Lexus is one hell of a cruising car. One can sleep extremely well in the back. The leather didnt impress me (This did not have the Ultra). We had a 90 LS400 and the leather was stiched up better, maybe the Ultra would fix this gripe. But the interior was generally boring. I"m not too sure how the leater would wear as well. I do know that we didnt have one single problem with that car OR more importantly THE SERVICE DEPARTMENT.
To go off in a tangent, the Q45 is kinda wierd looking, with a face reminicent of the J30 with the round front. Interior is nice, I just dont like the cliff look.
The new 7 Series is a bit too comtemporary for me, reminds me of the concorde... but done well. I guess intime I'll learn to like it. .
As for price.... the LS is a lot of car for the money and it does represent good value. The MB/BMW you are getting pretty much what you pay for, not to mention the safty of the passengers and they had the autobahn in mind when they were designed and they show in the performance. Dont Forget that the MB also has free maintainence for 4 years, while lexus does not. One overpriced car I feel is the A8...
R
Thanks
The older S class is a tank, but even tanks need maintanence.
I'm curious if anyone reading/posting on this board is awaiting a 2002 S Class w/ ABC and what they've been told.
(2) Question: Has anyone out there have experience with warranties?
There are a lot of caviates to them. Suggestions?
(3) Anyone know about the Wynns warranties? I have heard good things about them...an old company.
The thing to remember is that these are high tech cars and they don't like to be fixed by "just anyone".
With a warranty you can seek out a good Benz dealer for service...and that guarantees genuine Benz replacement parts...more expensive but these Benz's like their own parts.
(4) Let's ask if anyone has owned a 1996 S320 and if there are any quirkes or items worth watching out for.
Good luck and let us know what you decided.
Christchurch
I decide to stick with Lexus! I am currently looking at a GS300. It sure is a shame because the old body style on the s is nicer then the newer one!
The old body style had a lot of presence, but the new car is far sleaker, more modern, and a lot sportier.
Drew
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GPS -"On Star" kind of system that can be added to our Benz's (S 320 - previous great body style)
If so, let us know.
Thanks,
Christchurch
Only 34000 miles in 6 years? Wow. And it's only worth $35K now? Any idea what it cost new?
It was a 1995 purchase new late in the 1995 model year. The car stickered for well over $100,000 (I don't recall exactly), but because the 1996s were on their way he paid about $95,000. It was not a demo or anything like that.
It had only 34,000 miles beacuse he mostly uses his wife's car.
Three different dealers in the Chicago area quoted around the same price to fix the AC, so it was legit. The dealers were Loeber, Mark and Autohaus. Aagin, labor was a huge part of the cost because they all said the dash had to be taken out.
The car was not traded in on the Lexus but sold to a dealer that buys and sells expensive cars (the dealer offered slightly less). Even he said the AC would run thousands of dollars to fix, so the cost does seem to be right.
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html
I have owned a '76 6.9 450 SEL (fantastic power, minor problem with the air suspension, but what a ride), '85 500 SEL (nice improvement from the previous generation and I ran it for 230,000 miles, never had a major problem), and a '96 S420 that was that ultimate teutonic ride.
But, when I saw the new S and the improvement made to the styling, safety, and technological advances, I had to have this car. IMHO, there was no comparison to the previous generation and Mercedes finally made the transition to a sporty S Class. In July of '99 you could not find this car unless you ordered it many months ahead and I just happened to be at the dealer when this S430 fell out because the guy was transfered out of the country.
I have been so happy with this car and when comparing to previous S Classes that I have owned, it is simply a joy to drive and puts a huge smile on my face everytime I drive it.
There has been a lot of negativity on this thread that I just had to relate my positive experience with the new S Class. And the positive references to the new Lexus LS430 has it's merits, but the Lexus copy cat look of the old S Class is amusing. The least Lexus could do is upgrade to the new MB S Class styling, but I guess they weren't up to speed at the time. Mercedes should be flattered about the imitation from Lexus over the years, but a MB S Class is still the most unique driving experience. There's something about that German heritage that the Japanese can't duplicate.
And one comment on MB dealerships, my dealer is House of Imports in Buena Park, CA. From the salesman to the service advisor to the service manager, they have been excellent. One problem I had early on with my 2000 S Class was with the air suspension. There was a problem with the early S Classes suspension holding air pressure. They replaced all 4 shocks, but that didn't fix the problem, it came down to the air pump was defective. Well, they felt so bad about tying up my car for this repair on 2 separate occassions, that they gave me a free Star Tac MB phone. I was going to buy one, but because of the the inconvenience of tying up the car for about a week, they gave me the phone for free. This dealership has been rated #1 for a number of years in a row and this service shows why.
Stick with Mercedes and in the long run you will appreciate what a pleasure it is to drive this car.
Thank you v ery much. I look forward to reading your answer
I understand from your post that you previously owned the S 430 ...last generation.
Could you share your pros and cons of that series?
A friend is looking at one now and is interested in advice.
Did you have any service problems unique to that model.
How much mileage did you put on the car?
Did you have an extended warranty?
These are all of things which I would like to pass along.
Thanks for the help.
Happy motoring.
Christchurch
I am awaiting for your response
RIDE NOISE BUILD QUAL.
'76 450SEL 6.9 8.5 8 9
* Under ride, the 6.9 had air suspension and the ride was great, but it handled like you would expect a car of that weight to handle. Noise insulation was very good for that year and the build quality was excellent. Everything worked like it was engineered for and this car was a screamer because of the 6.9 liter engine. Does anybody remember the 6.9's? The car was the ultimate autobahn high speed cruiser and the acceleration was a thrill. I wonder what the 0-60 times were for this car? I drove this car for over 100,000 miles with no major engine or drive train repair. In fact I never had the valve covers off. The only big repair was the air suspension due to system leak. Other than that, a great car with classic styling and of course the vault like sound when shutting the doors.
1985 500SEL 8.5 8.5 9
The ride and handling of this car improved from the previous generation. It was more nimble than the 6.9, but unfortunately lacked the power. But it was the '80's and we were fortunate to get any HP. The noise insulation was very good and the build quality was again top rate. I drove this car over 230,000 miles and had no major engine or drive train repairs! Again, never had a valve cover off. The only big repair was replacing the exhaust system complete with the catalytic coverter. This would have cost big bucks if the dealer replaced it, but they recommended an independent that did it for half the cost. Again, a great car that only lacked HP and a classic style.
'96 S420 9 10 10
The ride of this car was excellent, the only negative being the weight of the car hampered the handling a tad. However, it gave the driver the impression of being a smaller car. The noise insulation was the best yet because the windows did a great job. The build quality was second to none, no doubt about it. The materials used on the interior were top notch. The 4.2 liter engine performed very well considering the weight. I drove this car to 50,000 miles and did not experience any problems other than maintenance. Fantastic car.
2000 S430 10 10 9.5
The advances of the new S Class is well documented and I would have to say this is the best overall S Class ever. This car rides and handles like a sports coupe, very nimble for a car this size and a big improvement over the previous S. I found the noise insulation to be excellent. The build quality is very good, the only negative is the plastic on the interior. This has been some of the complaints vs. the previous S, but I will take this cars overall assets any day. Add all the technological and safety improvements and it is no wonder that many auto journalists have picked this S as the best car in the world. The new engines are fantastic (ULEV) and I get over 21 mpg with a combined city/highway conditions. The 4.3 liter engine performs better than the old 4.2 and I can only imagine the performance for the 5.0, 5.5, and 6.0 liter engines. The other thing that sold me on this car was when I saw the new S Class next to the previous generation S. It was like night and day. The new S styling was top notch and the old S looked old. And with Mercedes cutting the weight out of the car, adding all the new technology/safety and maintaining the room in the interior, for less money, I was sold. Not to mention the free maintenance! I remember very well the high costs associated with normal maintenance for the previous S Classes. This is my opinion is the best S yet.
Just a thought, maybe it would help for another time.
Pat
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Sedans Message Board
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html
PF Flyer
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Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
It is listed as digital with the capability of switching over to analog for that type of signal.
the phone works great for hands free with steering wheel controls. And if you leave the car you can take it with you.
Should the dealer have told me the phone was analog or is this a case of caveat emptor?
A regular Motorola Star Tac will not work with fiber optics on the S Class, unless they have come up with an adapter kit.
Are you are saying that to upgrade to the digital phone they need the adapter kit for $500 and $600
for the handset? Is this with the trade of the analog phone?
And yes, the dealer should have informed you that the phone was the earlier analog version as it would have effected your negotiation for the car.