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good luck.
alex
I just purchased a 2003 with 31000 miles. I've changed the oil to Mobile 1, new NGK iridium plugs, a fresh air filter, added injector cleaner to fuel, washed and waxed. I'm gonna like this car I'm sure. I'm still on my first half tank of gas and logged 212 miles since the purchase which was for $8800.00.
I'm considering changing to synthetic transmission fluid in the automatic X-mission, any thoughts? Thanks, John
And not to be the grammar police or anything, but "Mobile" is a city in Alabama, not an oil/gas brand. Next time you drive by your local "Mobil" gas station you will see this...
If you want to learn about the pros and cons of synthetic oils and fluids you might consider this website to obtain a wealth of information, stuff you probably had no idea about: www dot bobistheoilguy dot com. I am a big believer in synthetic oils. Just because the average american car owner has been brainwashed into believing that he must change oils every 3k miles does not mean that that is correct.
Who is making money doing (mostly) unnecessary oil changes every few months? The big oil companies, of course.
What about the waste of valuable resources? In Europe synthetic oils are the norm and typically oil change intervals are every 15.000, 20.000 or even 30.000 kilometers.
In my vehicles oil changes are done every 15k miles (Toyota Echo) and 20k miles (Chevrolet K1500). My previous Caprice was sold after 10 years and over 300k miles on a synthetic diet (only 15 oil changes in total). There was no increase in oil consumption over the entire life of the vehicle. The present owner (neighbour) is now at 410k miles and still doesn't have to add more than 1 qt of oil between changes (he does them every 15k).
Again, thanks very much for the link. John
It is very difficult to recommend the same oil change interval to everybody.
My driving is mostly highway, about 70%, the rest is stop and go. My trips are 40 miles each way, driving to work.
Every trip I make the engine reaches a high temperature and that allows all the harmful gases and acids to burn off.
Someone with a short commute or many short trips per day may have to change the oil more frequently.
What I did is to have the used oil out of my car analyzed by a specialized laboratory (Oil Analyzers Inc.). The cost is about $ 20 each time.
After a few oil analysis you will get an excellent idea of what to expect from the oil you are using, based on your particular driving habits.
For me the long intervals work beautifully, for someone else the results will be different.
You might want to do a search for the "Magnusson Moss Act", a law that protects customers and basically says that the onus is on the car manufacturer to prove that an engine failure was caused by the improper oil or oil change interval.
I have frequented this website about Toyota Echo's and have yet to find ONE case where an engine has failed due to improper lubrication, especially if using a high quality synthetic oil.
I use Amsoil not because I sell the product but because I have had outstanding results in several different vehicles. I decided to sign up as a preferred customer ($ 20 a year) and that allows me to purchase at wholesale prices.
The website mentioned in a previous message provides a great deal of information on oils and the general consensus is that Mobil 1, Amsoil, Redline and a few European synthetic oils are excellent products and, depending on your local price and availability, will save you a lot of time under the car. In addition to that the engine of your car is better protected during extreme hot or cold temperatures.
There is also a better use of limited resources (less dependence on imported oils) and less harm to the environment. Don't forget that not all used oils are reprocessed. Uncounted thousands of gallons of used oil each year are either burned as fuel oil (air pollution) or dumped somewhere (soil and water contamination).
So the less we use, the better for the country and the environment.
I've owned 18 cars in my life (counting my wife's cars). None of them had engine trouble. All of them were sold with more than 150k miles on them. All of them had a steady diet of synthetic.
Check the previous message. The dealer can't deny the warranty for an unrelated matter.
Regarding filters, yes, I change filters every 7.5k. They are cheap, around $ 2 at WalMart. I must have about a dozen in my garage
You say your ten year old car with 400,000 miles on it uses no more than a quart of oil in 15,000 miles? Say do you have a Blue Ox too?
Ross
I have a 75 mile per day round trip to work which begins at 500 feet msl climbs to 1800 feet and returns to sea level to get to work and the reverse in the evening. During the summer ambient air temps can go over 100 for a week or two. Winters see sub freezing temps. For these conditions and the cleanliness issues associated with the synthetic oil is what pushed me to make the switch, and I'm comfortable with this.
I'm currently studying about filters at the other site. Any first hand experience that you can share in this regard?
John
I am not trying to convince anybody to follow my practice of using a group IV synthetic oil in their car.
If you use an inexpensive mineral oil and you change it every 3k you will not harm your engine and it will probably last for 200k, 300k and even more.
A Toyota Corolla (1987) owner in Alberta (very cold winters) recently completed 1.000.000 kilometers or 621.5 k miles using just that (mineral oil).
They key to the longevity to a car is lots of highway miles and a careful warm-up of the engine. What I mean is not to rev the engine too high before the oil is really hot.
You see, taxicab engines commonly last 5 to 7 hundred thousand miles and more between overhauls because they are kept running around the clock in several shifts and the engine and oil stays hot all the time.
What kills an engine is very frequent starts but even more so frequents short trips and subsequent cool downs.
Whether you believe me or not regarding my old 91 Caprice its up to you. I just tell it like it is.
As good as a Toyota Echo is, in your case with the short trips and low miles you put on your car, it is unlikely that you will reach an extremely high odometer reading without having other problems (not the engine).
Your starter motor, the alternator, the water pump, the power steering, brake calipers, thermostat, etc are likely candidates for causing trouble at some point, way earlier than your engine.
You will most likely grow tired of your Echo long before it reaches 300k miles.
For me using synthetic oil is a way to save a lot of time. I would be changing conventional oil every 6 weeks if I followed the big oil companies advice.
Since I spend about 3 hours on the road every day plus 8 at the office, there is little time left for wasting with oil changes.
I also like to send in samples of the used oil to find out how spent the additives are and in what condition my engine is in.
Yes, with oil analysis you will get to know your engine very well. You will be able to tell whether there is a coolant contamination or if it is wearing abnormally.
If i did conventional oil changes (mineral oil, every 3K) my cost would be 8 times $12 = $ 98 (oil plus filter).
Synthetic oil changed twice a year = 8qt of oil @ $5 per qt = $40 plus 4 oil filters @ $2 each is about $50. You see, in my case I am saving the time wasted doing 6 oil changes plus I save almost $50.
When you factor in the oil analysis it all comes to a tie.
But my car is still better protected than someone else's running mineral oil because it starts easier and is protected a tiny bit better because the oil reaches critical parts of the engine sooner.
If I factor in the fuel savings (1 or 2%) that's about 7 to 14 gallons, $ 15 to $30 a year saved.
As you see, the numbers alone do not justify going one way or the other.
OTOH, few people can justify a tall mocha or latte per day, do they? That would be a waste of hundreds of dollars per year, right? Wrong!
We can't use numbers to justify what we do. We just do what we do because of personal choices. Thank God we have those choices!
Keep doing what you are doing and be happy.
I figure the car will be 16 years old before it hits 100k miles at the rate its going. Im MORE worried about my internal parts failing during that time!
If your car truely has gone 400,000 miles without burning significant ammounts of oil that would be amazing to me. Also, FI helps because the engine never runs rich the way a carburated engine can.
So you see, these are almost ideal conditions for any engine and the explanation for its excellent condition and extremely low oil consumption.
Few people do that kind of driving and therefore never achieve similar results.
My present Echo (March 2001) just turned 179.000 kilometers today (111.249 miles) and has never consumed any measurable oil between oil changes. I use a block heater every morning for 1 hour (yes, even in summer) and when I start the little critter the engine is already warm. This is easier on the engine, starter and battery than starting with a cold engine.
The plan is to reach at least 400k miles before I sell it, without major repairs.
No repairs so far. NONE.
Time will tell if it is possible. I will post the details form time to time.
Kneisl1, HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!
Thats a good idea about the block heater.
drove it from Philadelphia to Suffern, NY,
to NYC, back to Suffern, back to NH.
Been driving it every day 106 miles.
It has the 2 things I wanted, air & 5 speed.
Ok, it doesn't have 4 doors.
I'ts silver, 14" wheels, about 110,000 miles, and $4000.
Well, it was weird, the New England Astronmy Forum was in Suffern, NY that weekend, and my 40th High School Drama Club Reunion was Saturday.
So I flew in (for $60) into Philadelphia, they picked me up and drove me about 40 minutes to there shop, I did a test drive, then went to Walmart to get a tire presure gauge, found all 5 tires low, some really low, went to pep boys for an oil change where they didn't fill the tires as I asked, when down the road for some fre air.
I gave myself 2 days for misadventure - Thursday and Friday.
I found a small motel up toward Trenton and stayed over night on Thursday.
Drove up to Suffern, NY the scienic route, went to the show,
Saturday drove to NYC for the reunion, drove back to Suffern that night,
and then drove home Sunday.
I researched the guys I was buying it from as much as I could, they were
in the Chamber of Commerce List, they had excellent ratings on ebay,
and I found a referance or two.
They were skimping every way they could to keep there costs down.
The detailed the car but didn't change the oil or check the tires.
It was a wholsale car and the paint looked really really good.
The Engine on an echo is often < $300 on Ebay.
So even if it blew up, I figured I'd be ok.
I know I didn't take any greater risk than buying from a dealer.
In both cases it as is where is good luck.
In this case the made the car presentable but it was always
being sold wholesale to me.
I'm very happy with the price.
I am looking into buying the ECHO, I love it!! I lived in Europe for about 13 years and I obviously wanted the Yaris (the European Echo) since it came out... But anyways now that I am in Canada it seems like everyone is telling me to look for a bigger car especially because of the snow and in case of an accident.. Can somebody please reassure me that the ECHO is a solid car, it is durable and it handles the snow very well... I need to know from people who have experienced driving in the snow with the ECHO that I have nothing to worry about... Oh and by the way how good is the car's heater.. Honda's heaters are excellent how about Toyota?? and if the car is sitting outside in the snow does it get frosty inside .. I saw some disturbing pictures and I just wanted to make sure.
thanks
hope to be a future echo owner
I have had lots of experience with a '99 VW Golf in snow,
a '87 Toyota Fx in snow.
There are two limitations:
1. traction, you need good tires, some nice studded Nokian Hak10's would
be nice.
2. ground clearance, you are not going anywhere in 12" of snow. You just
don't have enough ground clearance.
If your driveway is plowed and the roads are plowed then item 2 is not a problem.
For me my driveway could get 8" of snow and it's up hill so many times cars
of similar size could not get up the driveway.
So if you have to make it down the road that has not been plowed in 8 hours
I would say you will get stuck.
Otherwise I would expect it work out fine.
Call up the local Toyota dealer and ask them.
The reason is Im considering selling my ECHO at some point. The ugly truth is that its probably at the peak of its used car worth now. Its value will only go lower in years to come. Sadly, I can no longer do repairs to my vehicle anymore. Having Toyota do them will be $$$ and there arent any other mechanics around here I would trust to work on it. It makes economic sense to sell it in the near future and go with a new car. But what car could ever replace an ECHO? A hatchback diesel ECHO sure could. i wonder if there are any plans to make them? Does anyone know of plans by Toyota or any other carmaker to produce a car like ECHO?
Ross
http://www.donlen.com/buildstart_toyota.asp
I think the handling in high wind has been the most nuisance with this car. Would it help to put weight in the trunk??
Thanks!
Thanks for the tips!
If I remember right toe in can make the front end unstable.
I switched to super and still I am still have the same problem. If you find out the fix let me know.
This is my first new car. It's replacing my used 1991 Accord (283 000 kms, don't know what that is in miles). I found that for me the ride in the echo was just as comfortable and the echo was even a bit more peppy than my old car.
I was reading old messages about car size and saftey. This was something I was looking into. The echo has a great saftey rating compared to many larger cars. What matters more than size is how the car is built. A larger object will move a smaller one but if the smaller one crumples in the right spots it will protect the occupant. My girlfriend was just in a car accident. She was driving a 2003 Civic and was hit from behind by a Quad-cab pick up when she had to stop for deer. Anyways she lost the car but walked away without a single broken bone. The guy at the junk yard told her the car did everything it was suppose to. So the attitude that bigger cars are safer is bull.
I'm looking forward to many years in a great car.