Toyota Echo

kneisl1 · May 2006

Here is an article about the new ECHO 1.0 in Japan. It has auto stop/start of the engine. They claim it gets 60 mpg! (hope the link works)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/redesign_of_toy.html

hilmer · May 2006

I bought the '03 a bit over a year ago with 31025 miles. Checked the breaks the first weekend and they were fine.

I track every tank of fuel and watched and wondered as the average milage shrunk from 41.57 to 40.85 and the last few individual tanks running 39.5. I had noticed that under a bit more than moderate breaking I had developed a peddel shudder, so last weekend I cleaned and lubed the caliper sliders and installed new factory pads. The car now has 51K on the clock.

One tank doesn't tell me much about the MPG's but it looks like it is going to average around 42.2 now. I have a Scan Gauge mounted and can see what is happening trip by trip. My best commute was this last week and I managed 45.6 on the way to work one morning, the best ever.

The passenger side pads were normal when I disassembled it, but the outside pad of the drivers side was worn to the limit with the inside pad normal. The caliper was just slightly bound up apparently on the sliders. Checking after the rebuild with a friend operating the break I could tell that the pads were releasing evenly and smoothly.

It only takes about 1/2 hour to jack up the front end and pull the calipers and pads. It would be time well spent if you find a problem like this early and correct it.

With this behind me I elected to rebuild the calipers on the wifes '96 Camry this weekend. I found no indication of any problems. I got rid of the nearly worn out after market pads that were on it and installed new factory pads. Much less dust and no noise from these at all.

So, there it is. I hope it might help someone.

kneisl1 · May 2006

Its an excellent idea to monitor your vehicles mileage at every fillup. If you get a substantial mileage drop over a few weeks then go look for the reason why.
In the shop I worked in it was policy not to rebuild siezed calipers but to replace them. Also, we were told to replace (or recommend it to the customer) calipers over 100,000 miles or ten years old. If the customer declined to replace the calipers then we were to write on the bill customer declines to replace the calipers. My boss claimed 50% of rebuilt calipers seized up again shortly afterwards. (a little extreme but not far off) It was not unusual for customers to return with seized brakes after pad changes when they declined his advice. Basically the policy was to cover the shops [non-permissible content removed]. I check my brake pads twice a year for that reason.

norma358 · June 2006

Kneisl1,

You wrote; "Its an excellent idea to monitor your vehicles mileage at every fill up. If you get a substantial mileage drop over a few weeks then go look for the reason why."

Of course, if you don't do this you have no data to evaluate how the car is performing.

"In the shop I worked in it was policy not to rebuild seized calipers but to replace them."

I can understand this, but please note that my situation was not one where it was seized, the sliders were functioning, but they weren't functioning correctly.

"Also, we were told to replace (or recommend it to the customer) calipers over 100,000 miles or ten years old. If the customer declined to replace the calipers then we were to write on the bill customer declines to replace the calipers. ***My boss claimed 50% of rebuilt calipers seized up again shortly afterwards.***

I'll assume you meant that those that didn't get the calipers replaced were back shortly. I can't imagine half of those replaced with re-built calipers went bad. This was why I decided to do the rebuild myself, I know what is in there now and don't have to *trust* the "Factory Trained" guy with my wifes life.

"(a little extreme but not far off) It was not unusual for customers to return with seized brakes after pad changes when they declined his advice. Basically the policy was to cover the shops [non-permissible content removed]. I check my brake pads twice a year for that reason."

And well you should. There are three major systems /components on a car that need to be maintained with vigilance. Brakes, steering and tires. Any one of these if they fail can kill you.

As my father taught me the above basics I have never forgotten this lesson. He said; "It is not so bad if the car won't start or if runs poorly, but if you can't stop it, steer it or the tire blows out it can kill you."

About a year ago I posted here and some kind sole referred me to a site that has taught me a lot. It takes a lot of reading and sorting like many site on the web to get through to the meat and glean the best it has to offer. If you are willing to spend the time and effort to do what is required you can learn a lot by checking out this site.

bobistheoilguy.com

Don't be surprised if you get there and don't think that you can comprehend some of the threads, I'm still learning and consider myself a rookie there. However, I have reaped the rewards of spending the time and making the effort. My last oil change was after 7500 miles and the wear was nil as measured by used oil analysis.

Best Regards, John

nippononly · June 2006

at the pump today continue to be remarkably consistent: 9.08 gallons, 372 miles, which with my calculator I find to be 40.97 mpg, which I will call 41 mpg for my own intents and purposes! :-)

Until today, summer had arrived here in NorCal, and the Echo's A/C has proven to be well up to the task, much as early impressions from my SoCal trips some months back indicated.

kneisl1 · June 2006

Im going to make a HIGHWAY trip soon! Something I rarely do. Dont get to check the mpg that way often. Any suggestions as to how to improve freeway mpg?

nippononly · June 2006

steady and consistent, of course. The Echo is more sensitive to speeding (in terms of mpg reduction) than I would have expected. I tend to stick to the speed limit (65 near the cities, 70 on rural interstates here in California), and have managed 46 mpg that way (no A/C). Constant A/C use chops about two points I think.

When I'm in a hurry on a long trip and I am regularly making runs up to 80 or 85 mph to pass cars, the mileage drops a lot. There was one tank where I only managed 40 mpg with that type of driving.

In one short experimental stretch (about 200 miles) I stuck to 55 mph (I was stuck behind trucks pacing each other in all lanes part of the time) and managed 48.5 mpg, but IMO that isn't really a long enough stretch to be a very scientific result.

kneisl1 · June 2006

is what I got on a 200 mile trip last summer. I think I had the AC on at least part of the time. I kept it under 60 the whole time. (not an easy thing to do!) I did start with a fillup and end with a fillup, so in that respect the result is accurate. But it was my only venture onto the freeway last year and the only time I ever tried going 60 on a trip. This would be a longer trip (500 miles) and it would be a lot longer going 60! I may do it though.

nippononly · June 2006

338 miles in 2 days, 7.6 gallons, comes out to 44.5 mpg. Pretty cool! :-)

That included a trip out to Davis one evening that is probably 100-110 miles round trip on the interstate. And it's been raining part of the time, so not a lot of A/C use on this tank.

But still, I like it! :-P

kneisl1: knowing your frugal driving habits, I have no doubt that if you take your Echo on a highway trip, you will pull at least 50 mpg. :-)

kneisl1 · June 2006

Gee if that is the case then its possible under those conditions to get the mileage of a Prius for $13.1K! Anybody interested?

norma358 · June 2006

I'll bet that you can do it if you try hard.

What I have learned by using the ScanGauge is that if I accelerate gently when going down hill and back off on the foot feed when going up hill I can use the inertia to an advantage and increase the MPG significantly. I've only had one full tank that I was able to measure the results on and it came in at 49.67 MPG across a bit over 425 miles total distance traveled. Other partial tanks recorded similar yields.

I have the advantage of the gauge that indicates the semi-instantaneous mileage, ignition advance, coolant temp and RPM, so there is a lot of help in all of that information when trying to "Feather-Foot" for mileage.

Still, I think if you try you can do really well because you know the car so well.

I don't stop in here near enough, but I hope to see your report on this experience when I do drop in. Best, John

kneisl1 · June 2006

Tell me about this scan gauge. Is that the same as a scan tool which plugs into the socket under the dash. Where does one get one of these things and how much are they? Thanks!

tallcoolone63 · July 2006

Anyone here been able to bring a HATCH to the states? IF so, was it a big ordeal or no?? I really want one...

kneisl1 · July 2006

Ive heard used ones are showing up in used car lots near the Canadian border. Such a car would be a potential financial disaster for as long as you had it however. If discovered the feds could take it away from you (or make you "upgrade" it to American specs). Why go that route when a new US legal Yais is in your local Toyotas dealers showroom right now?

tallcoolone63 · July 2006

Of course i would go the legal route with it, which is mainly paperwork these days, upgrades are a thing of the past, ECHO's are US/Canada legal............i dont care for the Yaris interior, very cheap looking, and i dont want a brand new car...........

kneisl1 · July 2006

I heard on the radio on the way into work today gas is expected to increase 33 cents MORE a gallon in the next two months. They are forecasting oil to be a $100 a barrel by this time next year. (currently $75)
Used ECHOs with 35k on them are going for $6000 here in NJ.

nippononly · July 2006

I managed to drive my gas mileage down by spending a couple of evenings last weekend tearing around like a maniac. This car is really spry, if not a great handler. I continue to surprise people off the line when I am in the mood.

But of course, I pay the price at the pump! So, anyway, tonight's fill was 10 3/4 gallons, 420 miles, which I make out to be 39 mpg. In addition to the race car imitations I did, we are now in the season where I use A/C most of the time.

kneisl1: I think you are right about the gas, don't know though about the $100/bbl for oil thing. Gas here has jumped up again about 15 cents/gallon in the last week or two, after being in a lull just over $3/gallon after Memorial Day. I am very glad the little Echo continues to excel at the pump, even when I do abuse it! :-P

marika · July 2006

I've had my Echo for about 3 months now. It took me that long to go through a single tank of gas! Here are my stats:

-2001 5spd coupe
-flat N. Fla terrain
-exclusively city driving
-50% heavy, 50% light traffic
-exclusively short trips (<4 miles)
-light but constant a/c use (lowest setting)
-9.02 gallons, 341 miles = 37.7 mpg.

I was hoping to break 40. I drive like a granny, coast as much as possible, irritate the mess out of the people behind me, etc.

kneisl1 · July 2006

Well considering that you are driving short distances in heavy traffic and the EPA number for the ECHO is 34 mpg youre doing pretty good! The only thing I could suggest is pick a time to travel when the traffic is lightest.

kneisl1 · July 2006

Also I suggest even though you dont drive a lot. Keep your gas tank filled. Dont wait for three months to fill it. An empty tank will allow water to condense on the inside and get in the gas. This will rust your tank and play havoc with the fuel system. Also, dont buy cheap gas from a no name station. Use a brand name like Exxon or Texaco. I dont use Citgo stations because they are owned by Chavez.

nippononly · July 2006

ALL your trips are less than 4 miles, many in heavy traffic, and you run the A/C all the time? I would say 37.7 mpg is FABULOUS, no kidding.

BTW, if you literally go three months between fill-ups, you may seriously be losing a little bit to evaporation. That will drive your perceived mpg down.

hilmer · July 2006

Here ya go, see the link.

http://www.scangauge.com/

I've had mine for about a year and love it. Very simple to use and I have cleared a few trouble codes so it has paid for itself.

It has helped me to learn how to drive for best economy as well. Mine is the first version and not as easy on the eye as this new one. Mine is ugly but it works great. John

kneisl1 · July 2006

It looks nice but $170 would double what Ive spent on this car (besides gas) in the past five and a half years.

hilmer · July 2006

kneisl,

I hear ya, but if you read just two codes it has paid for itself. The wifes 96 Camry threw two codes within tow weeks of each other, both for O2 sensors. The first code her Camry threw she had read by the local shop. It was the good old gas cap loose thing and it cost me $85.00. That was when I bought the gauge.

Well, at least out here, they charge $85.00 to read and/or clear a code. When I read codes for friends I usually just get a case of beer or a couple nice bottles of wine, LOL!

Now I have the benefit of being able to see the instantaneous fuel economy, RPM, ignition advance, and coolant temperature as I drive, which is worth something to me as well.

I'm still averaging above 40 MPG with my Echo which now has 55K on it, and no problems yet. John

kneisl1 · July 2006

Lucky for me no error codes yet! NJ didnt test the emissions directly my last inspection they checked for error codes. If I werent so cheap I should buy a scan gauge and learn how everything works so when trouble happens I dont have to rely on the "experts". I guess until the car falls on its face Im going under the assumption the car is a miricle and will never need anything fixed. So far so good! 207 miles driven with a 4.97 gallon filup today for 41.5 mpg. That included a 60 mile drive at 45 mph in fifth pretty much nonstop. $15 for two weeks driving.

kneisl1 · July 2006

Well Ive been moved from second to first shift at work. This has changed my driving habits considerably. I used to come home at midnight and could drive the speed limit with few problems. Now I have to come home at 2:30 pm. Its dangerous to go 45 mpg (the speed limit)on parts of the trip home. This would be on the Admiral Wilson Boulevard which is a three lane each way divided unlimited access highway. There are morons going 75 mph on it. I NEVER see anyone pulled over by a cop. If you get in their way they tailgate and pass on the right swerving in and out of traffic. So in the interest of self preservastion I am increasing my speed from 45 to 60 mph. This is just a little faster than the speed of traffic. Im afraid this will impact the mpg I am getting. Ill let you know.

nippononly · July 2006

it seems like what with all this folder creation they have done here at Edmunds, every single model out there has its own "XXXX: Real World Fuel Economy" thread. So how come we Echo people don't have one? :-/

Got a rather nice 42.5ish mpg on the last tank, 383 miles on 9 gallons (8.96 to be exact) of gas. :-)

pat · July 2006

Hey!

a) you coulda made one yourself, b) you coulda asked me to do it for you and c) here ya go: Toyota Echo: MPG-Real World Numbers.

:P

Please do the honors!!

kneisl1 · July 2006

Thats a good point considering fuel economy at a bargain basement price is an ECHO strong suit. Im afraid though that the ECHO is not front page news anymore and is slowly being shunted off to the side with the Tercel.

babyboomer · July 2006

There is a slight possibility I may have to pull a John Deere LT160 lawn mower about 4 miles round trip every two weeks using my 2001 Echo. The ramp-type trailer would be bigger than the Echo but I can use side roads to avoid traffic. Other options besides towing exist but I'm curious. Has anyone put a trailer hitch on an Echo? If so, where was it purchased? What is the towing capacity of an Echo? Any problems?

kneisl1 · July 2006

You can do a google search for hitches. Almost all the companies who sell them make one for the ECHO. I installed one and used it to pull a 16ft aluminum boat. Towed it 65 mpg no problem. The ECHO has plenty of power. You will need a special kit to adapt the trailer lights to the ECHOs wiring but it isnt much and is easy to install. Towing the tractor just four miles should be no sweat for your ECHO. Good luck and tell us what happens!

nippononly · July 2006

I have found my first dislike about the Echo. This begins the long slippery slope down to a trade for something else (I am a card-carrying CCBA member! :-P).

I guess that unlike almost every Toyota, INCLUDING the not-much-more-expensive Corolla, the Echo does NOT have UV-blocking glass? I noticed that a yellow card I have sitting in the car in the little box on the dash (a discount card for a car wash) totally faded out in a matter of weeks, because of the sun. Good thing my car has so many hues of gray inside, so that if things fade unevenly it won't be very noticeable. But I shudder to think of the amount of sun exposure I am getting while I drive, in that case.

In a lot of ways (excluding mechanical), the Echo is a bit of a throw-back to cars from 20 years ago, and those are mostly ways I like. This one is not. I thought all the cars had UV-blocking glass these days. I remember up until around 2000, Toyota Monroney stickers on some models even listed it as a feature and I would always think "geez, they are still listing that? It's standard on every car these days". Apparently not. :-/

kneisl1 · July 2006

So....what car are you going to find that gets 40 mpg? I would do a little research while you are on that long slippery slope about the UV tint or lack of. Perhaps it can be added...
Heres a test you can do. Find someone with transitions type self darkening glasses. If the glasses dont go dark in your ECHO in bright sunlight its because the windshield is stopping the UV.

nippononly · July 2006

well, the Yaris has it. :-)

And the Fit. :-)

My eye is always caught by the latest new, glittery car. Both of those will probably get me close to 40 mpg the way I drive.

Retrofitting the car would be enormously expensive. It is the actual glass itself that is tinted all through to absorb UV rays, so we are talking what, at least $500 worth of glass all around? Plus labor costs? Nah, not doing that.

We are just having an especially bright summer, that's all. I live near San Francisco, and normally the fog blocks the sun about half the day in the summer. But this year the nation has had all these heat waves, and around here most days have dawned clear and bright!

Anyway, I am a consummate CCBA'er. The Echo did pretty good going more than six months before I found anything I disliked. And it isn't going anywhere any time soon. I am thinking 18 more months...

:-P

inharmsway · July 2006

I believe the ECHO's owners manuel do not recommend towing, but if you look at Toyota's sites in Europe, the Yaris (same car) can tow guite a lot even with a smaller motor. Go figure.

kneisl1 · July 2006

Probably some liability issue they are trying to cover their [non-permissible content removed] on. FWD cars generally arent recommended for towing as they can lose traction easily. However, in my experience the ECHO will tow 500 lbs like its not even there. If one is cautions and conservative Im sure its capable of towing 1000 lbs under the right conditions. You better be smart about it though.

marika · July 2006

Windows typically block most (90%) UVB but not much of UVA (10%). You can get an aftermarket window tinting that blocks most of UVA but you might have to be persistent to get the action spectrum for blocking from 320-400 nm as most installers will not have a clue and they do not commonly publish this detailed but critical info in their standard product lit.

This will have the added bonus of preventing most skin sags that people typically associate with the aging process. Very little is actually due to aging: up to 90% of it is from UVA (sags, loss of elasticity dark and light pigmentation problems) superposed on UVB exposure (wrinkles, redness).

rep5858 · July 2006

I read an article pertaining to a recall of the Echo/Yaris. Has anyone seen this , and have more information about it?
What years echo are being recalled, etc.

Also, I tow a 12' jon boat. Keep speed under 70 and tongue weight under 500 lbs. U-haul did entire installation for 100 bucks. Their books rate echo to tow 500 lbs. max
thanks
rick

nippononly · July 2006

the affected cars (some 24,000 Yaris and Echos) were all built in 2001. If yours was built that year, you may want to call Toyota customer service and ask if yours is one of the affected ones.

The fact that they included Yaris models makes me think the affected cars may be partly or mostly Canadian ones.

rep5858 · July 2006

Thanks! My car is a 2001. I will call tomorrow and post the results. Figures :sick: Oh well i will assume Toyota will cover the cost?
rick

nippononly · July 2006

Yes, this is an official recall, which means all repairs will be covered for free. If your car is actually one of the affected ones, I would love to know what they do when you get your car repaired. The description on the AP wire was so vague, it left me wondering what the heck the actual affected part is. ("An oil seal in the engine could blow, allowing oil to leak onto xxxxxx and cause the engine to stop" - what the heck does that mean? Where would an internal oil leak cause the engine to stop? Do they mean a catastrophic loss of oil pressure as a result of the oil seal failure, and if so, what seal could fail that would cause that?)

kneisl1 · July 2006

Theres a recall link on the Prius (or was it the Yaris?) page. The link says the crankshaft sensor seal can be faulty allowing oil to get in and the engine to stall. Or the sensor can become disconnected while driving and the engine will stall. It goes on to say no instances of sensor disconnection have been reported. Should be easy enough to self inspect. Ill look at my manual when I get home.

tsnook · July 2006

Can somebody paste a link for something that can give me information about the recall mentioned? I can't find anything and I have a 2001 Echo.

Thanks

kneisl1 · July 2006

Goto the Yaris forum. It currently has 1702 posts. See post #1694. That has a link to the recall.
If I may make a comment here. Most recalls are total BS. Actual problems involving a car model on a global scale are rare. Generally, its a problem in somebodys mind, or that affects maybe as few as 1 or 2 vehicles. A freak accident as it were. Also there is the litigation factor. People are so sue happy that manufacturers cover their [non-permissible content removed] by issueing recalls for the most ridiculous things. I remember one for the ECHO about how ice forming on the wheels could sever the brake line running to the front wheels. That could happen to any car! It supremely unlikely to occur. We have engineers running around at work who operate solely by coming up with dire senarios and so keep management off balance. The odd happenstance that DOES occur only serves to let them say: SEE I TOLD YOU SO!

rep5858 · July 2006

This is rep5858. Thanks for the info. I called my toyota dealer. He knew nothing of the recall. He asked someone else then was informed. lol They told me to wait for toyota to send me the recall notice in the mail.
Also, wasnt there some sort of rust on the drivers side floor, recall???
thanks in advance
rick

pat · July 2006

Losing Streak: Toyota Gets Slammed With Another Big Recall.

I don't know if they are saying ALL 2001 and 2002 Echos are affected or just some of them. Unless your dealership can give you some information now, I think you need to wait to see if you get a letter telling you that your vehicle is affected.

kneisl1 · July 2006

Yes there was a recall for "rust problems" in the front seat area. Sounds suspiciously like someone left their window open in the rain. My car had no problem. This is apretty typical example of the recall biz.
The crankshaft sensor involved in the recall in on the front right side of the engine. Allegedly oil is either seeping into it from the crankcase which it screws into, or there is an external oil leak dripping on it. I note that it would be perfectly placed to get oil on it from sloppy filling of oil during an oil change. I tried locating it, buts its either behind the alternator or under the intake manifold. Its possible one or the other (or both) would have to come off it see it.
So...is anyone having problems with their engine stalling...

kneisl1 · July 2006

No actually it can be seen by removing the right hand engine Under Cover. Its bolted to the engine block below the thermostat housing.

nippononly · July 2006

You can call Toyota and give them your VIN to see if you are included in the recall. And since it affects a total of only 24,000 North American Echos and Yarii, it is most certainly NOT all 2001 and 2002 Echos, far from it.

Remember, unless you are the original owner and have not moved, or have taken steps to register your address with Toyota as a current owner, you will not get a recall letter! It would be easier to just call them and ask if you are included.

babyboomer · July 2006

When should the timing chain on the Echo be replaced?

Toyota Echo

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