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http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/02/redesign_of_toy.html
I track every tank of fuel and watched and wondered as the average milage shrunk from 41.57 to 40.85 and the last few individual tanks running 39.5. I had noticed that under a bit more than moderate breaking I had developed a peddel shudder, so last weekend I cleaned and lubed the caliper sliders and installed new factory pads. The car now has 51K on the clock.
One tank doesn't tell me much about the MPG's but it looks like it is going to average around 42.2 now. I have a Scan Gauge mounted and can see what is happening trip by trip. My best commute was this last week and I managed 45.6 on the way to work one morning, the best ever.
The passenger side pads were normal when I disassembled it, but the outside pad of the drivers side was worn to the limit with the inside pad normal. The caliper was just slightly bound up apparently on the sliders. Checking after the rebuild with a friend operating the break I could tell that the pads were releasing evenly and smoothly.
It only takes about 1/2 hour to jack up the front end and pull the calipers and pads. It would be time well spent if you find a problem like this early and correct it.
With this behind me I elected to rebuild the calipers on the wifes '96 Camry this weekend. I found no indication of any problems. I got rid of the nearly worn out after market pads that were on it and installed new factory pads. Much less dust and no noise from these at all.
So, there it is. I hope it might help someone.
In the shop I worked in it was policy not to rebuild siezed calipers but to replace them. Also, we were told to replace (or recommend it to the customer) calipers over 100,000 miles or ten years old. If the customer declined to replace the calipers then we were to write on the bill customer declines to replace the calipers. My boss claimed 50% of rebuilt calipers seized up again shortly afterwards. (a little extreme but not far off) It was not unusual for customers to return with seized brakes after pad changes when they declined his advice. Basically the policy was to cover the shops [non-permissible content removed]. I check my brake pads twice a year for that reason.
You wrote; "Its an excellent idea to monitor your vehicles mileage at every fill up. If you get a substantial mileage drop over a few weeks then go look for the reason why."
Of course, if you don't do this you have no data to evaluate how the car is performing.
"In the shop I worked in it was policy not to rebuild seized calipers but to replace them."
I can understand this, but please note that my situation was not one where it was seized, the sliders were functioning, but they weren't functioning correctly.
"Also, we were told to replace (or recommend it to the customer) calipers over 100,000 miles or ten years old. If the customer declined to replace the calipers then we were to write on the bill customer declines to replace the calipers. ***My boss claimed 50% of rebuilt calipers seized up again shortly afterwards.***
I'll assume you meant that those that didn't get the calipers replaced were back shortly. I can't imagine half of those replaced with re-built calipers went bad. This was why I decided to do the rebuild myself, I know what is in there now and don't have to *trust* the "Factory Trained" guy with my wifes life.
"(a little extreme but not far off) It was not unusual for customers to return with seized brakes after pad changes when they declined his advice. Basically the policy was to cover the shops [non-permissible content removed]. I check my brake pads twice a year for that reason."
And well you should. There are three major systems /components on a car that need to be maintained with vigilance. Brakes, steering and tires. Any one of these if they fail can kill you.
As my father taught me the above basics I have never forgotten this lesson. He said; "It is not so bad if the car won't start or if runs poorly, but if you can't stop it, steer it or the tire blows out it can kill you."
About a year ago I posted here and some kind sole referred me to a site that has taught me a lot. It takes a lot of reading and sorting like many site on the web to get through to the meat and glean the best it has to offer. If you are willing to spend the time and effort to do what is required you can learn a lot by checking out this site.
bobistheoilguy.com
Don't be surprised if you get there and don't think that you can comprehend some of the threads, I'm still learning and consider myself a rookie there. However, I have reaped the rewards of spending the time and making the effort. My last oil change was after 7500 miles and the wear was nil as measured by used oil analysis.
Best Regards, John
Until today, summer had arrived here in NorCal, and the Echo's A/C has proven to be well up to the task, much as early impressions from my SoCal trips some months back indicated.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
When I'm in a hurry on a long trip and I am regularly making runs up to 80 or 85 mph to pass cars, the mileage drops a lot. There was one tank where I only managed 40 mpg with that type of driving.
In one short experimental stretch (about 200 miles) I stuck to 55 mph (I was stuck behind trucks pacing each other in all lanes part of the time) and managed 48.5 mpg, but IMO that isn't really a long enough stretch to be a very scientific result.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That included a trip out to Davis one evening that is probably 100-110 miles round trip on the interstate. And it's been raining part of the time, so not a lot of A/C use on this tank.
But still, I like it! :-P
kneisl1: knowing your frugal driving habits, I have no doubt that if you take your Echo on a highway trip, you will pull at least 50 mpg. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What I have learned by using the ScanGauge is that if I accelerate gently when going down hill and back off on the foot feed when going up hill I can use the inertia to an advantage and increase the MPG significantly. I've only had one full tank that I was able to measure the results on and it came in at 49.67 MPG across a bit over 425 miles total distance traveled. Other partial tanks recorded similar yields.
I have the advantage of the gauge that indicates the semi-instantaneous mileage, ignition advance, coolant temp and RPM, so there is a lot of help in all of that information when trying to "Feather-Foot" for mileage.
Still, I think if you try you can do really well because you know the car so well.
I don't stop in here near enough, but I hope to see your report on this experience when I do drop in. Best, John
Used ECHOs with 35k on them are going for $6000 here in NJ.
But of course, I pay the price at the pump! So, anyway, tonight's fill was 10 3/4 gallons, 420 miles, which I make out to be 39 mpg. In addition to the race car imitations I did, we are now in the season where I use A/C most of the time.
kneisl1: I think you are right about the gas, don't know though about the $100/bbl for oil thing. Gas here has jumped up again about 15 cents/gallon in the last week or two, after being in a lull just over $3/gallon after Memorial Day. I am very glad the little Echo continues to excel at the pump, even when I do abuse it! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-2001 5spd coupe
-flat N. Fla terrain
-exclusively city driving
-50% heavy, 50% light traffic
-exclusively short trips (<4 miles)
-light but constant a/c use (lowest setting)
-9.02 gallons, 341 miles = 37.7 mpg.
I was hoping to break 40. I drive like a granny, coast as much as possible, irritate the mess out of the people behind me, etc.
BTW, if you literally go three months between fill-ups, you may seriously be losing a little bit to evaporation. That will drive your perceived mpg down.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.scangauge.com/
I've had mine for about a year and love it. Very simple to use and I have cleared a few trouble codes so it has paid for itself.
It has helped me to learn how to drive for best economy as well. Mine is the first version and not as easy on the eye as this new one. Mine is ugly but it works great. John
I hear ya, but if you read just two codes it has paid for itself. The wifes 96 Camry threw two codes within tow weeks of each other, both for O2 sensors. The first code her Camry threw she had read by the local shop. It was the good old gas cap loose thing and it cost me $85.00. That was when I bought the gauge.
Well, at least out here, they charge $85.00 to read and/or clear a code. When I read codes for friends I usually just get a case of beer or a couple nice bottles of wine, LOL!
Now I have the benefit of being able to see the instantaneous fuel economy, RPM, ignition advance, and coolant temperature as I drive, which is worth something to me as well.
I'm still averaging above 40 MPG with my Echo which now has 55K on it, and no problems yet. John
Got a rather nice 42.5ish mpg on the last tank, 383 miles on 9 gallons (8.96 to be exact) of gas. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
a) you coulda made one yourself, b) you coulda asked me to do it for you and c) here ya go: Toyota Echo: MPG-Real World Numbers. :P
Please do the honors!!
I guess that unlike almost every Toyota, INCLUDING the not-much-more-expensive Corolla, the Echo does NOT have UV-blocking glass? I noticed that a yellow card I have sitting in the car in the little box on the dash (a discount card for a car wash) totally faded out in a matter of weeks, because of the sun. Good thing my car has so many hues of gray inside, so that if things fade unevenly it won't be very noticeable. But I shudder to think of the amount of sun exposure I am getting while I drive, in that case.
In a lot of ways (excluding mechanical), the Echo is a bit of a throw-back to cars from 20 years ago, and those are mostly ways I like. This one is not. I thought all the cars had UV-blocking glass these days. I remember up until around 2000, Toyota Monroney stickers on some models even listed it as a feature and I would always think "geez, they are still listing that? It's standard on every car these days". Apparently not. :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Heres a test you can do. Find someone with transitions type self darkening glasses. If the glasses dont go dark in your ECHO in bright sunlight its because the windshield is stopping the UV.
And the Fit. :-)
My eye is always caught by the latest new, glittery car. Both of those will probably get me close to 40 mpg the way I drive.
Retrofitting the car would be enormously expensive. It is the actual glass itself that is tinted all through to absorb UV rays, so we are talking what, at least $500 worth of glass all around? Plus labor costs? Nah, not doing that.
We are just having an especially bright summer, that's all. I live near San Francisco, and normally the fog blocks the sun about half the day in the summer. But this year the nation has had all these heat waves, and around here most days have dawned clear and bright!
Anyway, I am a consummate CCBA'er. The Echo did pretty good going more than six months before I found anything I disliked. And it isn't going anywhere any time soon. I am thinking 18 more months...
:-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This will have the added bonus of preventing most skin sags that people typically associate with the aging process. Very little is actually due to aging: up to 90% of it is from UVA (sags, loss of elasticity dark and light pigmentation problems) superposed on UVB exposure (wrinkles, redness).
What years echo are being recalled, etc.
Also, I tow a 12' jon boat. Keep speed under 70 and tongue weight under 500 lbs. U-haul did entire installation for 100 bucks. Their books rate echo to tow 500 lbs. max
thanks
rick
The fact that they included Yaris models makes me think the affected cars may be partly or mostly Canadian ones.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
rick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Thanks
If I may make a comment here. Most recalls are total BS. Actual problems involving a car model on a global scale are rare. Generally, its a problem in somebodys mind, or that affects maybe as few as 1 or 2 vehicles. A freak accident as it were. Also there is the litigation factor. People are so sue happy that manufacturers cover their [non-permissible content removed] by issueing recalls for the most ridiculous things. I remember one for the ECHO about how ice forming on the wheels could sever the brake line running to the front wheels. That could happen to any car! It supremely unlikely to occur. We have engineers running around at work who operate solely by coming up with dire senarios and so keep management off balance. The odd happenstance that DOES occur only serves to let them say: SEE I TOLD YOU SO!
Also, wasnt there some sort of rust on the drivers side floor, recall???
thanks in advance
rick
I don't know if they are saying ALL 2001 and 2002 Echos are affected or just some of them. Unless your dealership can give you some information now, I think you need to wait to see if you get a letter telling you that your vehicle is affected.
The crankshaft sensor involved in the recall in on the front right side of the engine. Allegedly oil is either seeping into it from the crankcase which it screws into, or there is an external oil leak dripping on it. I note that it would be perfectly placed to get oil on it from sloppy filling of oil during an oil change. I tried locating it, buts its either behind the alternator or under the intake manifold. Its possible one or the other (or both) would have to come off it see it.
So...is anyone having problems with their engine stalling...
Remember, unless you are the original owner and have not moved, or have taken steps to register your address with Toyota as a current owner, you will not get a recall letter! It would be easier to just call them and ask if you are included.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)