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Toyota Echo

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Comments

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Now you don't need to do THAT again for five years, and you can count on it turning over on that one inevitable trip to the bad side of town at night in the rain...

    ;-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • crankybodycrankybody Member Posts: 1
    Despite the age of this thread, I have something to add, unfortunately, its not a fix.

    My engine developed a stumble, so I took it to an independent mechanic, (I don't trust any of the local dealers) and although no trouble codes showed on their computer, they replaced the spark-plugs (my suggestion). I should mention this was in February while the high temperatures averaged 10F. I've worked on enough cars in the dead of winter, and don't care to do it anymore. Anyway, the pinging, which had been very bad, went away along with the stumble. The stumble is still gone, but the pinging returned after about a week. I've found the pinging is only a winter phenomenon, and true to form, now the weather is warming, the pinging is lessening and will soon be gone - until next winter. It doesn't seem to hurt the engine, so I'm not going to worry about it.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Welcome to CarSpace! :)
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Does putting premium in the tank help? If it does I would be doing that in winter. Pinging long time may lead to trrouble!
  • tsnooktsnook Member Posts: 18
    Has anybody ever gotten cruise control put in aftermarket on the echo? I have a 5-speed and am going to have to start driving to college and back (~7 hours each way)so I'm thinking of getting it put in, but I'm not sure how much it costs or if it's even a good idea. Anybody have any idea how much this sort of thing costs?
  • mopar71mopar71 Member Posts: 31
    I saw an echo on ebay that had cruise control on it but it was aftermarket,and the car was an automatic.JC Whitney sells them but then you would have to have someone install it.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I know I would NEVER let anyone install an alarm system in my car. Too many problems afterwards. The same thing might apply to a cruise control. Be carefull!
  • moparblue2moparblue2 Member Posts: 86
    we have two Echos 2000 5 speed & 2004 5 speed both have aftermarket cruise on them. cruise works fine in booth of them. cost was about 250.00 with 3 year warraty.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "echo" that! :-P

    The local Scion dealer gets the Rostra cruise control installed in their xAs (same engine and everything as the Echo) for $300 customer cost.

    I have the Rostra in my Echo (2002) and it works almost exactly the same as a Toyota factory cruise would work. It is easy to use, maintains speed very well without lots of slowing down and speeding up, and the only things it lacks are a cancel feature (you have to use the brake to cancel)and a light on the dash to tell you it is on (it does, however, have a green light on the unit itself to tell you it is on).

    I recommend it for the Echo.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tsnooktsnook Member Posts: 18
    Thanks for the info. Now I've just got to figure out what to get first, cruise control or a new CD player. My toyota original doesn't play CD's anymore. :(
  • mopar71mopar71 Member Posts: 31
    Did it help your gas mileage after you installed the cruise control?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The average death rate per million registered vehicle years is 79 for all vehicles. The ECHO is excellent for a small car...70. You have to get into an Audi or Mercedes or Lexus to do much better. The KIA Spectra was like 170. Hyundai was 100. That is 100 people died for every 1 million years one of these vehicles was on the road. So if 100,000 ECHOs were sold in this country over 6 years thats 600,000 vehicle years. This means only about 40 people have been killed in ECHOs in the USA. Doesnt sound right. Pretty damn good if true!
  • mccallrmccallr Member Posts: 19
    I have a 2001 Echo (5 Speed) and changed my anti-freeze coolant today. I was wondering if you had the same problem I did. I removed the plastic radiator drain plug, drained the radiator, filled it with water (installed plug), ran the engine for 15 minutes, and then drained the radiator again. Since the capacity is 4.7 qts, I started putting in 1 quart of anti-freeze, then 1 quart of distilled water. The problem was, by the time I was putting the second quart of anti-freeze, the radiator was full. In essence, I must of had about 3 quarts of water in the engine and less than 2 quarts of anti-freeze. I wasn't sure what to do so I let the car run again for 15 minutes and then drained the radiator again. This time, I was able to put 2 quarts of straight anti-freeze in before the radiator filled up. I am hoping that the diluted water in the engine, plus the 2 quarts I put in, is enough. I don't know where the engine drain plug is so I guess it's the best I can do. I would appreciate any ideas you might have. Thanks. Bob
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I couldnt find or get to the the block drain either. When I changed my coolant the plan was: drain the radiator, measure what came out, and replace with a 50-50 mix of coolant and water. Maybe it all wont come out thats fine, Ill just drain whatever comes out every year and replace it and that way therell always be fresh coolant in the engine. But when I drained it using only the radiator drain 4.7 quarts came out! I filled the radiator with 50-50 mix until full and put the cap on. I idled the engine until the fan came on. Then I let it cool for a good 20 minutes so its cool to the touch. I opened the radiator cap and filled it to the brim again with 50-50. Then I repeated until the radiator was full. Over the next few days every morning before starting I checked the level by taking off the cap. It was always full.
    See, when you filled it up it may not probably was not full. You need to cap the radiator and idle it till the fan comes on let it cool completely cool and top it off and repeat until its full. Im hoping like mine 4.7 quarts come out when you drain just the radiator.
    Now what to do with your situation. The mistake you made was to not fill the radiator with a 50-50 mix so now you dont know exactly whats in there. No biggie. I would drain the coolant out the radiator again. Have the car hot and turn the heat knob on full. Let it cool completely cool. (about half an hour) This time measure how much comes out. Mine was 4.7 quarts. THIS TIME fill only with 50-50 mix. If 4.7 comes out great. If less than that dont worry about it. Just fill with 50-50 this time. You have to fill it up, cap it, idle it till the fan comes on, let it cool completely cool, open the radiator again and fill with the 50-50. Repeat until full. Check daily in the morning engine absolutely cool to make sure the system is full. Oh and you should also drain the expansion tank and refill with 50-50 mix. I believe it unbolts from behind the radiator and its easy to get out.
    Let me know what you decide to do. Please if you drain again DO NOT open the radiator cap of a hot engine!! You could be badly burned! I even remove the radiator cap of a cold engine with a heavy rag even so just to be extra safe. Let me know what happens!!
  • mccallrmccallr Member Posts: 19
    Thank you very much for all the information. I wish I had originally just drained the radiator but the mechanic at the Auto Hobby Shop I went to told me to remove the top hose from the radiator cap (one that goes into the top of the engine), put a water hose into the radiator, and let the car run until all the coolant was out of the engine. This is where I went wrong since I had a lot of just plain water in the engine. Needless to say, I'll follow your instructions now and in the future. Right now, I have about 2 qts of coolant and 2.7 qts of water. I'll drive it to work this week and then next Saturday, I'll drain the radiator and put 50/50 in it. Since the engine will certainly have some coolant mixed in, it will hopefully be fine. I bought distilled water, but unfortunately the engine is full of hose water from the hobby shop. I'm hoping that regular water won't hurt the engine. Thanks again for all your help and advice. These forums are really great! I learned how to change my Echo spark plugs and oil (both were easier than my coolant fiasco). I'm wondering if I should change my manual transmission oil. My 2001 ECHO has 67,000 miles on it and it's never been changed. Do you know if that's hard to do? Looking around in my engine compartment, I haven't found a dipstick for the transmission oil. Knock on wood, I've never had anything go bad on my Echo. I still have the original battery and brakes. I do change the oil every 3,000 miles and I've changed the spark plugs (put irridium ones in at 40K miles), and changed my air filer a few times. My Echo doesn't quite have the pick-up it used to, but I get 40-42 MPG and my AC works fine so I've been pretty lucky.
  • mccallrmccallr Member Posts: 19
    I forgot to mention, but I drained the expansion tank by removing the little tube that connects to the radiator cap mount and pushing the hose all the way down. The tank emptied in a few seconds. I then put the little hose into the 2 guide clamps and reconnected it to the radiator cap mount. I was going to put 50/50 in it, but since I knew I didn't have enough anti-freeze in the system, I put 100% anti-freeze in the expansion tank. I'm not sure if that will ever get mixed with the rest of the coolant, but if it does, I'll probably have close to the 50/50 mixture that I want.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    As to the hose water in the engine, that is what I used for my ECHO. (I think) We have very good artesion well water here in in NJ. It is very "soft" ie little mineral content. So it is fine to use in the coolant. Unless the water where you live is very high in mineral content I think you will be fine.
    Also I see no real problem in your antifreeze mix. If that is in fact what you have. You would be well leaving it as it is. Its close enough I think. If you have very hard water in your area you might want to drain it and put in distilled water and antifreeze mixed 50-50. I believe the antifreeze you put in the expansion tank will indeed mix with the coolant in the rest of the engine. Where do you live?
    You can indeed change your transmission oil. Its not hard and I will explain how. I suggest a synthetic oil if you live in a cold climate as it will make shifting in winter easier. But regular transmission oil is fine. It should say GL-5 on the bottle. 75w-90 or 80w-90. (not 75w-140...nothing with 140 in it) Mobile One is fine. I can get Amsoil so that is what I used. Your transmission takes two quarts.
    First get a 7/8 inch socket. (or it might be 15/16)There are three bolts on the tranmission this socket will fit. One is under the battery and the battery tray on top of the transmission. You will have to remove them to see it. This is one of the fill plugs. It is easiest to fill the transmission from this plug. But a pain to take out the battery. There is another fill plug on the FRONT of the transmission half way up the transmission facing the radiator. This is also a fill plug. You may fill from either one. However, this second bolt should remain out when you fill the transmission with oil. The oil goes up to the hole the plug went in. You fill the trans with oil until it runs out this hole. The third plug is the drain plug and it is located at the bottom most part of the transmission. The face of the plug is vertical not horizontal. Again the 7/8 socket (you know I thinks its really 15/16) fits it. When you change the engine oil and maybe have the car on ramps, use the socket to find these bolts. Then you will know where they are. You can forget all about the one under the battery and just use the last two. But the one under the battery is there if you need it.
    You will need to have the car on ramps to change the oil. You will need to remove the plastic under fender on the left side of the car. Its near the radiator. There are two philips screws, a 10mm nut and two 10 mm bolts holding it on. Simple to remove and replace. You will need a transmission oil pump. Pep Boys and Auto Zone have them $13. It looks like a grease gun but instead of a grease fitting it has a long clear flexible tube. Its like a giant syringe really and works like one.
    Ok here we go. Get the oil and the ramps and the pump and the 15/16 inch socket (you better measure it and find out for sure!) Drive the car around to get the oil warm. Put the car up on ramps. You have already found the drain and fill plugs. Remove first the fill plug on the front of the trans behind the radiator. It may be necessary to remove the plastic under fender first. Then remove the drain. Drain the oil into a pan. Now go into the house and boil some water in a large pot. Put the two bottles of trnasmission oil into the boiling water. Dont pour the oil in just put the bottles in! We want to warm the oil so the gun sucks it up easily. Bring the pot and bottles out to the car. After an hour of drain time put the drain plug back in. It has a sealing washer you can reuse. If you lose the washer get another one! Open the bottles and suck the oil up into the gun. The gun works like a giant syringe. It will suck up about half the oil in the bottle in one shot. Put the end of the hose into the fill plug and push the oil in. Repeat until the bottles are empty and the trans full. You might possibly do without the suction gun and just squeeze the oil right out of the bottle into the trans. But the gun is easier.
    Now the front of your car is up in the air and the fill plug is still out. Gently drive off the ramp. When you do and the car is level oil will run out the fill hole. Let it drain out until it stops. It wont be much. The oil level is right when its up to the lower edge of this hole. In fact once a year you should take the fill plug out with the car level and add some oil if it isnt. Catch the oil with a rag or a pan and put the fill plug back in. Put the plastic under fender on and you are done!
    I would also remove one of the front wheels and check your disc brake pads pretty soon if you havnt done so already. Turn the steering wheel all the way to the left (for the left wheel) before you remove the wheel and youll see the caliper and the pads. By now they just might be pretty worn out. Maybe not!
    At 60k miles your engine is due for a valve clearance adjustment. I have written up a proceedure in this forum how to CHECK the clearances yourself if you want to. The clearance is most likely fine...these shim and bucket arrangements hold the clearance pretty good. Id say 19 out of 20 ECHOs are still good at 60k miles. If its bad though you want it adjusted. You can burn a valve and need a valve job if there isnt enough clearance. The dealer will have to adjust it. It might be very expensive like $500. But it probably doesnt need it and youll most likely be fine to let it go. But if you want to post me.
    I would have the rear brakes checked by the dealer. Or if you are adventureous you can do it. Remove the rear wheels and brake drums. Toyota drums often get really stuck on.
    Also when you change the oil on ramps each time you do check the boots on the axle joints. The ones next to each wheel go first. (they steer as well as rotate) They can crack and all the grease come out, ruining the axle. A moot point I guess because its as expensive to take the old axles out and put on new booots as it it to have rebui;t axles installed. The new boots last much longer. My 1980Sunaru they went every 60 k miles. My daughters Camry went at 100k. (1992)
    Keep changing your oil every 3k miles and check the air filter once a year. Your plugs are probably good for the life of the car. If you do this your ECHO will last 20 years. It is an incredibly well made little car.
    Thats all I can think of. Maybe Ill think of mmore later.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    I have a 2001 ECHO with 149K. Is there a maintenance schedule interval at 150K and thereafter? What things might be included??
    Thanks
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No there isnt. You just look at the things done every 30k and 60k. Do you have an owners manual? I can check mine if you dont.
    The one thing your car might need is a valve adjustment check which is supposed to be done every 60k. That is pretty expensive if Toyota does it. Even more if they have to make an adjustment. I wrote up a proceedure in this forum how to do it yourself if you feel inclined.
    One other thing I would be checking are the boots on your drive axles every oil change. Have they been replaced yet? Its a moot point perhaps as they tend to charge as much to install rebuilt axles as they do to change the boots. Id be curious to know if your boots are origional.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Thanks for your reply. So I have the things done I did at 30, 60, 90 120K ? ok I have the owner's manual and maintenance booklet they give you only goes up to 90K I think.
    Drive axle boots. Yes their original. Never heard of them. How can you tell if there bad or going bad?
    Same question for the valve timing.
    Thanks
    Rick
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    You just look at the boots. There are four of them. One near each wheel. Follow the shaft from each wheel and you will come to another one. They are rubberlike and black in color. If the boot is bad it will be split and the grease inside will be all over it. Its best to have the car up on ramps for this. Usually (because they turn with the front wheels) the boots at the wheels go first and the inner ones are good a long time. I would check them every oil change. If you get a split boot you can have new boots installed and the axles regreased. You want to have it done right away because dirt will quickly get into the joint and destroy it. If you ever heard a clicking sound coming from the car when making a tight turn (like on an onramp) that is a bad axle joint.
    The valve clearance check well, that involves removing the valve cover. You cant tell from looking at the engine. Although if the clearances are loose it might be making a clicking sound at idle. As long as your ears arent being put out of joint by engine noise, the gas mileage is good, and the engine is making good power you might get away without checking the valve clearances. $$$ if Toyota does it.
  • likrishlikrish Member Posts: 8
    General maintenance only and still going strong.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Seriously, not a single repair???? SOMETHING that rotates must have given up by now - alternator, water pump, power steering? Or the starter? And you are still on the original timing chain?

    Do tell, do tell. I am prepared to believe you, as this model has STELLAR reports of long-term durability, but I want you to think back reeeeeal hard...

    :-)

    PS Mine has had no repairs, but at 85K I am not even in your ballpark!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • pulgopulgo Member Posts: 400
    I just sold my 2001 with 168K miles and not a single light bulb failed. Just did standard maintenance.

    With exception of new brake pads, belts, spark plugs, PCV valve, filters and tires, everything was still original.

    That car would probably go 300K miles with no repairs and way beyond with few if any problems.

    I wanted a roomier car, better for long trips and purchased a 2007 Nissan Sentra 2.0. S. Got 37 MPG on the first tank, not that much worse than the Echo (41 MPG average).
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Awesome! Im driving my 2001 ECHO about 5-6k miles a year. 37k now. I will never roll up those miles at this rate. BUT I hope the ECHO lasts 20 years. Ill have about 110k miles then, if it does. This is very encourageing! MY ECHO will be seven years old this November 11th. I too have just done regular maintenance. Still have the origional tires on the rear. New battery last winter. Nothing has broken yet!
  • likrishlikrish Member Posts: 8
    I'm thinking....thinking...AND I went through all my receipts. Yep...only maintenance. No alternator, water pump, power steering, starter, OR timing chain or anything else has been replaced. Maintenance only. I have bragging rights then right? I haven't seen a post yet with more miles on an Echo.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Have you ever had the valves adjusted? Suposedly they should be checked every 60k miles. But Ive had motorcycles with the same valve arrangement go over 100k without adjustment. (although I checked them) Im debating with myself whether or not that checking is necessary.
  • likrishlikrish Member Posts: 8
    Yes, valves have been adjusted. That's part of maintenance.
  • rjgeerjgee Member Posts: 27
    Likrish

    I match your 215,000 miles... and raise! 2000 Echo also.

    I'm not driving much these days though...

    Driver-side lower control arm just replaced (bushing was in bad shape!)
    Catalytic converter replaced (Damn Toyota's fault. Faulty ecu causes misfires on v1 and v2 of the ECUs. No tsb for v2, but moving to v3 of the ECU fixes the problem)

    No valve adjustment or checks, but I do all other maint work myself.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    When you get away up there in mileage anything can go. Its amazing how much stays good for that long!
  • likrishlikrish Member Posts: 8
    rjgee,

    By how much are you raising me? I'm a little over 215,800 now. If yours has more, I bow to you and will give up my bragging rights. But until then, it's all mine. I will add, the check engine light came on just today. It's on steady, not blinking, so I will assume until I have a diagnostic run that it's not serious.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The CEL doesnt blink. Houston, you have a problem. If its something related to the fuel/air mixture its possible it could fry your cat. Soon.
  • rjgeerjgee Member Posts: 27
    I'm only playing; I concede bragging rights, but I am slightly over 215k :) The last few months have brought no more daily commute, but I do have another 1200 mile trip coming end of month. Good to see another semi high mileage Echo...

    Kneisl, the cel light does blink if there is a serious problem that can affect the cat. Also, you can't buy a cat at the junkyard. They aren't allowed to sell them.
  • likrishlikrish Member Posts: 8
    I'm just playing too, but it's fun. So your Echo gets a little break eh? Well, it deserves it. Yes it is good to see other semi high mileage Echos out there. I haven't been able to get to a diagnostic center yet for the "check engine" light, but I'll post after I find out what the prob is. I'm replacing fan belts today.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Whether it flashes or not, a CEL is a danger to the good health of your faithfull ECHO. Probably its not serious. But you wouldnt want to have that great little car get a fatal complication after all its good service to date. It has more good days ahead!
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    I was driving a few blocks and car started to hesitae, shake. CEL on. Drove fine next 200 miles. Took it to mechanic said on code it was a speed sensor. What is this? should it be replaced?
    thanks
    rick
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Did he give you a code number? If you have the number I can look it up. Something is wrong so you might as well let him replace it.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Hi . The code is either OP500 or PO500. Forget which.
    Oh, I called two dealers asking them if I can tow a small boat combined weight of 500 lbs. Both said no something about a subframe?? any comments. Several sites list a towing capacity for the echo. I have been towing a few times each season about 100 miles total for the season. Now , I dont know if I should stop towin the boat because of what the service guys said???
    rick
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I towed a 2000 pouund boat and trailer with my 1980 Subaru Hatchback thousands of miles up and down hill. I had no problems. I never exceeded 40 mph and rarely went over 20 miles a tow. Ive towed a 500 pound boat with my ECHO doaens of times. No problem.
    Toyota is probably concerned about some idiot towing a large boat 75 mpg over dirt roads. That would nt be a good idea!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yes PO 500 is the vehiccle speed Sensor. They say check 1) conbination meter (I thik the speedo) 2) open or short in sensor circuit 3) sensor itself 4) ECM.

    If you want to change it its under the air cleaer assy which you need to remove. Unbolt the old and bolt in the new. Theres an O ring that needs to be removed. Also, a simple snap ring that holds a shaft and drive gear to the sensor. You need to install the shaft/gear onto the new sensor. It looks easy. But note changing the sensor it #3 on the list so that might not fix it.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Hey thanks for all the info so far:) Anyway, yeasterday I when I firat started driving the car's transmission started slipping, after a few blocks. This happened the first time the CEL came on. I figure it's a trans problem. Drove to a trans shop. He test drove it , but it did not slip. It seems after its warmed up the trans runs normal. He said 500 is not a trans code but an engine code. But trans slipping. I dont get it. Now its in the shop over the weekend., so he can drive it cold monday morning. Also he said solenoids could be bad. I just hope its not the trans. I drove the car 140 miles after the first slipping of trans and cel on.
    rick
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Change the speed sensor! Check the wiring for shorts! It concievable that has something to do with the transmission.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Thanks . I just hope it's not the transmission itself. Thats about 2 grand to replace/rebuild.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Cheap compared to a new/nother car! Could be the control valve which looks easy to replace. If the car is in good shape otherwise its cost effective to fix if it gets you another four years driving.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Hi. The trans was slipping and CEL came on. Had it to my mechanic. He erased po500 code. Took it to lee myles transmissions. He said 500 code isnt transmission problem . Anyway since previuos mechanic erased the code the car's CEL would have to come on again, to be recheked by lee myles. It hasn't in 4 days now. Could it be the computer relearned itself? Before this light went on I drove with 2 passengers to NYC and back, all through Manhatten.
    thanks
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No I doubt the computer has fixed itself. The light will most likely come back on. The PO500 is a speed sensor problem. It DOES appear the speed sensor is bolted to the transmission. (it under the air cleaner housing) Its possible it could be affecting the transmission.
  • rep5858rep5858 Member Posts: 45
    Should I replace this speed sensor now, or wait to the CEL comes on again? Can you do it yourself?
    thanks, as always
    rick
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    I drove my 2001 Echo loaded with luggage almost the length of Georgia and back, a total of 473 miles and used only 10.583 gallons. That's about 9 hours of driving using cruise control on a fast traffic I-75 and the temps in the 90s required constant air conditioning. And I had stop-and- go traffic in Atlanta for about 30 minutes. This is the longest trip I have ever done in the Echo, which now has traveled 67,833 miles.

    I was shocked that it gave me a terrific 44.69 mpg.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Great! But Im not surprised.
  • maarty10maarty10 Member Posts: 5
    Hi guys, I am new here. I have a 2000 echo. I started reading here a few days ago. My engine trouble light came on ten days ago. At the dealer I was told they didnt know what it was about and cleared the computer. Several days later the light came back on. Into a different toyota dealer I went and was told the computer showed a costly catalytic converter repair was needed.
    I called my neighborhood mechanic who said he could do the repair for half or less; who also said not to have the trouble light cleared. He wanted to read the code for himself. The light went out by itself so I cancelled the appointment.
    So, two days ago I am coming home from work, I go to pull away from a light and the engine shudders; its vibrating, shaking the whole car. At first I thought it was the transmission. I took the car to the local mechanic. He called me saying #4 cylinder was not firing. A wiring problem he said. 2 hrs later he called to say the computer is defective and has to be replaced. Expensive for a new one; over 900 dollars. Less so for a used one; under 400 installed.
    The lesson? Dont trust technology, or toyota dealer mechanics; by the way, there is nothing wrong with the catalytic converter. That would have been 1200 at the dealer.
    Just thought you guys would like to know.
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