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Toyota Echo

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Comments

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    If you want to replace your hi/lo wiper switch with a variable intermittent one you can get a used one at 1-800-765-7100 for $50. (plus shiping) Ask for an intermittent switch (and specify variable) for a 2006 Toyota Corolla without fog lights. See the DIY section at ECHOfans for howto installation. According to them this fits. Its easy!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Are you sure it's only in cold weather, or is it just every time you start the car up cold? My guess would be the exhaust manifold gasket has a hole in it. That's right where the exhaust manifold joins the head, and it can be darn loud when it leaks. It is also common when the problem first starts to seal up nice and quiet as the engine warms up and the metal expands.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    nippononly,

    It has been much warmer the past few days and the sound is not the. The Car is still noisier and has more vibration until warmed up. The "rattle" sound was only happening while the clod engine light was on and it goes away when the engine has warmed up. I am wondering now if it's a valve issue due to VVTi not being active while cold, or perhaps the extra vibrating is rattling the heat shield on the exhaust? *shrug*
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    mrbwa1,

    Mine is pretty loud when cold too. Very high idle and a little belt squeal I think. Only happens when temp gets down to low 30s for me, though not contained periods of acceleration--it's there until warmed up. I've gotta take mine in for first time since I got it to have oil changed and will ask mechanic if it should idle so high, be so loud when cold.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    My variable intermittent wiper switch arrived from tap recycling.com today. Took five minutes to install. It was $65 delivered. (prolly $150 at the dealer) If you want one ask for a variable intermittent wiper switch for a 03-07 Toyota Corolla without fog lights. As a bonus they even sent the matching turn signal switch! (not sure you will get one) You can track your package by typing in your phone number at their website. How cool is that?
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    5 minutes, huh? What tools do you need? Anything special?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    philips screw driver. three philips screws (two of them are the ones you see when you turn the steering wheel) Remove the bottom piece of trim under the steering column. Jiggle the top one a little loose. The wiper switch and turn signal switch snap onto posts under the trim and theres a connector to remove aslo. Theres a tab on the switch you depress and just pull off the switch. Very easy to change. Every ECHO owner should have a variable intermittent wiper switch!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Gosh, if it's that simple you just have to ask: how CHEAP is Toyota not to just make it standard? Good ol' Toyota - they make solid cars but everything beyond 4 wheels and an engine costs extra...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I think they put the money into a quality engine, transmission etc. There is no small car made with the quality of this one, and it was only $13.1k bottom line. They must be soaking people who want power windows, power locks, power mirrors, power seats, auto dimming headlights etc. They didnt make any money on me thats fer shure!
  • mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    The ECHO was one of the last of the truly basic cars. My 2001 is packed full of options: A/C, 6-speaker CD Stereo, Power Steering, Intermittent (non-variable) Wipers, Automatic Transmission, Body Cladding... I don't have the power locks or alarm. I'm not even sure if power windows were available at that time. In the Echo, every little thing makes a difference. The Auto adds enough weight and saps enough power to make a 5-10MPG difference. I imagine the the power steering and even the weight or power windows would make a difference.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Got to do some playing around on a short track. The pros: great cornering in tight turns. Great acceleration (for what it is) to 50 in second. On wet ground, the car will burn out all the way through first and much of second to about 40. Great upshifting. Clutch very firm but smooth. I have no power steering and prefer that--its very responsive. Suspension feels very tight and controlled doing anything until around 40mph, where sudden maneuvers cause a very noticeable weight shift that feels a bit alarming.

    Cons: pretty unstable doing high speed, sudden maneuvers, where it gets pretty loose in the rear, starts to feel tippy. This is not in normal turns, but evasive type action, sudden swerving. Mine doesn't have ABS, so have to be pretty precise with braking and turning. Also felt to me that fronts would lock long before rears, so (mine anyway) arent adjusted quite right. Could definitely use bigger wheels for performance, though economy is more important to me. I wouldn't want to have to do anything reeally crazy at freeway speed, so let's hope no deer leap out across the road.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    My son, who now has my ECHO, said he misses the Jeep's electronics that tell him the outside temperature, the date of the next oil change, and the direction travelling.

    I told him to put a thermometer on the outside of the window, look at the sticker on the windshield, and put in the cup holder a compass.
  • parksgirlparksgirl Member Posts: 7
    Hey folks, I'm looking at a 2004 4door Echo Hatchback, I was rather excited until I found out that it has almost 97000kms on it. So it is obviously nearly out of warranty. Anyone noticed problems cropping up after 100K kms? The dealers says it was one of their leases and they have service records etc. I'm wondering about price. Originally they had it priced at $13000, which seems silly, but now since they have had it since the summer its just been reduced to $9900. Its a standard, pl, antilock brakes, cd, ac, um not sure it anything else. Any opinions if this might be a good buy or not?

    Also, I wondering how this tiny little vehicle does in winter conditions? I love the idea of low gas expense but I would have to drive across Canada with it soon.

    Thanks a lot everyone.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    You're obviously in Canada, so I don't know how well my experience would translate across to you. But I bought mine "Toyota Certified" from the dealer two years ago, at almost exactly the same mileage (mine had 60K miles right on the nose, which is about 97K kms yes? It was 3 years old at the time).

    I have not had to use the warranty at all. It is at 94K miles now (about 155,000 kms?) and has needed no repair at all, powertrain or otherwise.

    At the time I paid $9000 US, so what with the exchange rate now and a couple of years' inflation, I would think $9500-9900 CDN wouldn't be too bad...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    This is a very reliable car. So you cant go far wrong buying it. HOWEVER I would look VERY closely at the service records. Do they match the scheduled maintenance in the owners manual? Has the oil been changed AT LEAST twice a year? ie 8 or ten times total? Has the air filter been changed twice? The sparkplugs changed twice? They should have been! If it has NOT then I would walk the other way. GET THE OWNERS MANAUAL read the service intervals and DEMAND to compare the records. You can be very nice about it. If its been done they should be happy to comply. If these things have not been done I would offer $6000. Point the discrepency out to the dealer AND DO NOT PAY $9000!
    See if the valve clearances have been checked. They were supposed to be at 60k miles. Also the coolant should be changed by now. I would make the purchase conditional on these thwo things being done.
    If the maintenance is up to snuff I would offer $7500. As with nippononly Im an American where ECHOs are universally disrespected. ECHOS are well liked in Canada though. $9000 is too much here IMHO. But it might be fair there. But theyve had it since summer? (really?) They should let it go for less if thats true.
    Good luck and tell us what happens!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I see you mentioned winter driving. My ECHO was TERRIBLE in the snow with the tires that came with it. Bridgestone Potenzas RE92. I have a lot of experience winter driving living in upstate NY. I have Kumho tires on it now highly rated in Tire Rack but as yet untested in real snow.
    Since ECHO is so popular in CN I would ask around what people say.
    $13,000 is an insane price for this car BTW. At least here!
  • mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    The OEM tires were not all that great. Our second set of A/S radials was OK in the snow, but we splurges 2 years back and put on Yomohama IG-10 snows. With these tires the ECHO is an awesome snow car. There isn't really a lot of torque to get the tires spinning, and with the Yokos, it is VERY stable in the snow. I have tried to get it spinning in an icy, empty parking lot and that takes some real effort.

    NOTE: I do not recommend trying to spin circles in the snow with the E-brake anywhere other than a wide open parking lot where's there's nothing to run into!
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    I have only driven in snow with chains on, but it did very well. Without chains, I don't have great traction even with new (generic street) tires. Even on wet ground I spin the tires through all of first and much of second gear if I'm playing around and floor/redline it, and I've had it sideways pretty easily plenty when playing on wet ground too. I'd hate to drive it in snow without chains except on flat ground and with snow tires. $9000 sounds like a ton of money (probably almost twice what you could get the same car for in the US if you hunt around). That said, I honestly don't want any other car, unless someone were to give me a prius, and Ive seen that they sell in Vancouver BC for much more than they do just across the border in the States.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Prius: the car just like an ECHO which costs $10,000 more and saves $2000 of gas over its entire lifetime.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I kind of doubt you would find a 60K-mile 2004 Echo, at a Toyota dealer, with an extended warranty (not to mention the Echo in question, if it has ABS and power locks, is pretty much as fully loaded as an Echo could be), for 1/2 of $9000, which is $4500. I am in California though, where everything is more expensive, so my perspective may be skewed.

    Toyota dealers charge a HECK of a lot for used Toyotas. They are the most expensive place, in fact, to buy a used Toyota.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    No, not at a dealer. But in a private sale, I see them for that in WA state, and that's what I paid for mine w 64k. It is not fully loaded (more like fully stripped), but it is mint. Seems like they arent very popular here either. It's rare enough to see one on the road I always notice it.
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    Well, I believe it isnt necessarily more economical, but its not just like the echo when it comes to emissions. II got the echo because it is the greenest thing that fit within my budget. If I had the money to spare, I'd go with the Prius. It would be worth it to me, and I'll prob get one in a few years.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The ECHO is a great green choice if thats what appeals to you. What we really need is a car like the origional Honda Civic. (That got 50 mpg with no razmataz)Yes they have covered just about every angle they can think of with that Prius. Even when people realize they just spent $10,000 extra to save $2000 of gas they have the green thing. Any car can have a gas engine like the Prius and I believe theres one offered for the Focus. Then theres the buck rodgers dashboard with the overoptimistic mile-o-meter. I mean, how manipulated are you going to allow yourself to be?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think delphin was referring to smog-forming emissions, where Prius definitely has the edge. The Echo was ULEV in its day (at least my '02 was: I haven't checked the more recent models, and it WOULD change in later years unless Toyota modified the car) while Prius was SULEV (PZEV in California) and still is.

    I am not sure what this year's Yaris is rated for smog emissions. The Corolla is currently only LEV-rated, because it is an older model.

    Anyway, the Yaris is not quite the bargain the Echo was in its day. Although it is close. (I like the Yaris hatch. :-))

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    What do you mean its not quite the bargain? I saw a Yaris at the dealer for $12,500. My 01 ECHO was $13.1 bottom line.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well, the Yaris hatchbacks are really good deals - hardly any more pricey than the Echo was, and with A/C standard to boot.

    But the sedans' base price is $1000 higher, and they seem to mostly run about $14K - hardly pricey either, but more than an Echo was back in the day, and that day was only 4 or 5 years ago. I will bet your $13,100 Echo had A/C and the step-up stereo, eh? Not to mention the clock and rear defogger, items which are standard on the Yaris? Mine was almost the exact same price as yours when new.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    AC yes. 3 in 1 stero yes. (a great stero by the way!) PS. No clock. (and I wouldnt want it the little shelf is much more usefull!) RD. I just added the variable intermittent wiper switch from an 03 junkyard Corolla for $50.
    Im amazed the price isnt A LOT higher now. Maybe I should bite my tounge!
    The Yaris sedan is pretty big looking. Its only a matter of time before it gets the 1.8 litre Corolla engine.
  • mrbwa1mrbwa1 Member Posts: 42
    I agree with you on the Yaris. The ECHO isn't the best looking car, but it's not too bad. I recently got some old '97 Camry wheel covers for my snow wheels and they dress the ECHO up very nicely. The five bolt holes are a little weird, but I need covers for the winter rims and these were free!

    As for the stereo, I have the 3-in-1 with the dash tweeters and it is one of the best factory stereos out there. I finally got around to installing my aftermarket Panasonic MP3/CD player in there and it sounds quite a bit better than stock.

    If only Toyota could put a 1.5L diesel is these little cars, then you would have something (thinking WV Polo-esque)
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I think they make a 1.3 liter diesel. Boy would that be sweet! Actually with diesel at $3.40 a gallon in NJ the gas ECHO still is doing pretty good!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "The Yaris sedan is pretty big looking. Its only a matter of time before it gets the 1.8 litre Corolla engine. "

    I hope not - the 1.5 is the key to the great gas mileage in town. What they should focus on instead of boosting engine size is maintaining/reducing weight. The Echo put on almost 300 pounds when it became the Yaris (a good 100 pounds of this was due to power steering and A/C becoming standard, I am sure).

    The Yaris has only one available stereo from the factory, and it sounds like mud. For $13K, your Echo had a much better stereo than the $14K Yaris has. But I agree, the Yaris does look nice.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Everyone who has been in my Yaris Sedan has been impressed with the sound of my stereo. They are amazed given that it is in an economy car.

    I looked for years at the Echo. Options are high on the Yaris but they were outrageous on the Echo. I never saw one with many options. I wanted power windows, door locks , cruise, and keyless. I never saw a single one with those options the whole time the Echo was sold.

    I have seen plenty of Yarii with those options including mine. The additions of the airbag package and the auxillary input for the stereo system are major improvements for me. It would be nice if they could take out a few pounds, but it is the lightest car out there now I believe.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Was the variable spd intermittent wiper switch from the Corolla a straight swap out, or did you have to do any soldering? I'm looking to do the same thing with my Echo and actually with my wife's new Yaris as well. We love the Yaris, except for the lack of the variable spd option (why my 21 year old Celica had it but it's not even available as an option on the '08 Yaris I'll never quite understand).

    Oh, and Parksgirl, I bought my 2001 Echo Sedan back in '04 with 75K miles. I had the full service history - in fact the dealer I bought it used from sold it new originally and it had been serviced there it's whole life. It's been fantastic. I'm up to around 99K miles now and the only thing I had problems with was the electronic lock on the driver's side. A piece broke off of the arm inside the door so the electronic part wouldn't actuate but you could still lock and unlock it manually; it was replaced under the extended warranty. No problems with anything since.

    Thanks
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Its exactly the same switch except for the intermittent. You want to order it at the phone number I gave earlier. It is very easy to change. There is no soldering or frigging around. Strictly plug and play. Now that is for the ECHO. The Yaris I have no clue but I would be looking for another Toyota that has the intermittent switch that would fit the Yaris if I had a Yaris without the intermittent. I got to tell you I use that sucker all the time and I feel like a genius every time I use it! If you have an ECHO without intermitttent by all means DO IT! Changing that switch out makes me feel better about any other failures I may have as a human being.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Heh heh, yeah, I found your earlier post with the number and I'm on hold with them right now. Having variable intermittent is just one of those things that should always be - like tires! :D
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Please dake let us all know if the Corolla switch works in the Yaris as well as the Echo. I would upgrade my Yaris if it is a reasonably easy upgrade.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Will do!
  • dephinusorcadephinusorca Member Posts: 66
    "never saw one with many options. I wanted power windows, door locks , cruise, and keyless. I never saw a single one with those options the whole time the Echo was sold"

    You forgot heated steering wheel! Intermittent wipers aside (which reminds me I need to get on that) I'm happy not to have the options. My last car was running awesome after 20 yrs, but all the damn options had gone out and made it worse than it would have been if it never had them. And to fix those things is ridiculous. So glad my echo has no power steering. On my last car there was a fluid leak on the rack and pinion and would have cost 1000+ to fix, and that was the nail in the coffin. Didn't want to have to junk the car for no other reason, but that made me appreciate the simplicty of this car.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Things like PL PW Pm etc tend to break later in the cars life and be very expensive to fix. In the 60s I had a German friend who was amazed to see Mercedes sold in this country with power windows etc. He said no German would buy such tings on their cars in Germany because they would inevitably break.
    I tried and tried to get an ECHO with zero options but it wasnt possible. (or the dealer put me off!) I would kill right now for no power steering and a diesel engine. Still I am happy with the fold down seats, the intermittent wiper switch I installed, the super stereo, and the AC (which I know will go flooey and cost me $1000 to fix at some point)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    But then again, if it goes flooey ten years from now, you may consider that you have had reasonable service from your 16 year old Echo, and just call it a day! :-)

    One thing that hangs in there pretty well overall in Toyotas is A/C. And I think all A/C systems are more durable than they were 20 years ago.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Ok, here's the verdict. The Yaris wiper combination switch is NOT the same as the Echo/Corolla. The Echo/Corolla has one long connector, while the Yaris has two separate connectors. I'll bet once the new Corolla hits the streets, we may find that we can nab the wiper switch from that.

    Yaris Wiper Switch
    image

    Echo Wiper Switch
    image

    On a side note, I couldn't find a single '03 - '07 Corolla at a junk yard that had the variable spd intermittent wipers. I DID find an '03 Matrix and that DOES work. I now have variable spd int AND a knob for a non-existent back windshield wiper :D, but it doesn't bother the Echo a bit. Maybe I'll re-label that turbo-boost or something. Just thought I'd pass that along to broaden everyone's search potential.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Did you try the number of the yard I posted for the switch? And they didnt have it?
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    I did and the guy couldn't tell me whether what he had was a variable spd or just standard intermittent wiper switch. He said he'd call me back but never did, so I just called around to local salvage yards here in Houston. I got the Matrix switch for 50 bucks and put it on in their parking lot so I'm more than content.
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Thanks dake for that valuable information and the excellent photos. I guess we will wait and see if the new 2009 Corolla switch will work for those of us with a Yaris.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    I've got an '08 Camry Wiper switch on order, so we'll see if that works. Stay tuned!
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    I saw on tv where the new pint size Smart car will get around 36 mpg. This seems low considering my ECHO did better even with a larger engine, auto tran, room for four, etc.

    Seems to me that the ECHO is Smarter.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Agreed. Also this so called smart car also has a lot of qc issues from what Ive been reading. But never underestimate the stupidity of the public. Look how theyve taken to the fraud that is the Prius.
    I would love to have a little mini car like the Smart Car. But it would have to get 60 mpg and be reliable. Right now the best thing out there is the ECHO. The Yaris is about as good but is going in the direction of the Civic.
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Well, I know your post borders on flame bait ;) - but it's semi-entertaining at least. I assume you consider the Prius a fraud b/c of the gas mileage issue? Never mind that the original figures would prove far more accurate if you lived in a metropolis like Tokyo and never got above 35 mph. So, thanks to our open roads and long commutes, you still get better gas mileage than anything comparable, with more room and a good ride.

    I love my Echo, and I think the Yaris took everything that was good about the Echo and made it better with the one exception of removing some of the storage cubbies on the sedan for some reason. But I have to say, if I could've afforded it, I'd have bought a Prius.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No I never troll its just my considered opinion. And thankyou I do try to entertain just a little. The Prius has almost the same gas engine as the ECHO. It costs about $10,000 (at least) more than an ECHO and over 100,000 miles it will save about $2000 worth of gas compared to the ECHO. Not a viable economic proposition. My brother had I believe a 1983 Renault Alliance which consistantly averaged 50 mpg with a 1.3 liter engine. So all you need to get Prius numbers is a lighter car with a smaller engine. The argument that a Prius has fewer emissions cuts no ice because ANY car could be equiped with the emission control a Prius has and give the exact same emissions.
    I read an engineering anaysis of the Prius which claimed all its gizmos at most represent an increase in efficiency of 5%. My brother is a chemical engineer and he says thats about right. When the German car industry did a study of the Prius they were astounded anyone took this car seriously. A similiar sized Diesel engine has about the same efficiency (although not the emissions)
    I know a lot of well intentioned people admire the Prius and Im sure I appear to be insensitive at least. But its really about as effective as those magnetic devices unscrupulous people sell to increase mileage.
    I like the Yaris and if my ECHO was somehow destroyed I would probably buy one. But I see the Yaris as a step in the wrong direction because it is heavier than the ECHO. Its like what Honda did with the Civic, taking a fuel efficient vehicle and turning it into a bloated version of itself. How horrible if they have deleted the cubby holes!
    I think you have done wonderfully well for yourself to be driving an ECHO rather than a Prius.
    I guess you dont believe a word I am saying?
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    Heh heh, no I don't find anything you say to be too far fetched. From what I've read the Insight was actually better than the Prius, but what it had in efficiency it lacked in execution and style. And yeah, until they do something about the particulate matter, diesels just aren't in the running, emissions wise.

    That being said, the only way anything gets made in today's world is if there's money in it. So, now that the Prius has done well as a commercial endeavor it's encouraged everyone to make something better. For that alone I think the Prius is a success - if not for what it does, then for what it's making the other automakers do. If in the meantime a few people consume a little less gas, that's ok too. :)
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    What a shame we just cant get on with it and make cars with 1.5 liters max like the ECHO. I would love a one liter ECHO if it weighted 1500 lbs.
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