Toyota Echo

kneisl1 · February 2009

It wont hurt the engine. It will thicken the oil and maybe inhibit starting in cold weather. Its expensive too. If the engine is using a quart of oil in 3000 miles that is no big deal. I would just keep an eye on the oil level and add oil as necessary. Using cd2 might help also. As long as the car runs and is reliable its OK to feed its habit. 200k miles and still running is great!

nippononly · March 2009

I am having to resist the temptation again....I just discovered that side airbags and curtains and ABS are now standard on Yaris as of 2009. The little stick shift 3-door with the power package (including 15" rims with 185/60 tires, CD stereo, A/C, etc) stickers for just $14,5 and there is currently a $1000 rebate......so $13,5, and it has the same sweet little 1.5 as Echo under the hood, and makes within a hair of the same gas mileage as Echo did, with a weight gain of only 200 pounds. And the interior of the hatchback model is pretty darn nice. :-/

OTOH my Echo has just sailed on past 115K miles with nary a flicker or a flash, and I have yet to repair ANYTHING on this car. I bet it has at least 2 more years (about 35K miles, as much as I drive) in it of totally trouble-free operation. I can't trade now, can I???

kneisl1 · March 2009

I got a price of $14k out the door tax and everything on a base Yaris with automatic transmission. That deal was good until the end of December. But I went with a used 2004 ECHO with auto (pretty base model no fold down rear seats or rr defroster, no 3 in 1 stereo) for $5995 with 50k miles on it. Less than half the cost and it will be more than 8 MORE years before it sees 100k miles...
Considering a Civic is $20k now by the time you write the check/sign the papers $13.5k is a STEAL!

Keep the "old" ECHO as a spare and get a new Yaris and have it all!

nippononly · March 2009

Problem is, still no cruise at that price, and I use the cruise all the time in the Echo. And I suppose if I am getting power locks, I would like keyless entry too. So now we're probably back to $14,250 sticker after the rebate. I think I can talk myself out of it! ;-)

Can't buy the Yaris without selling the Echo, we only have two parking spots for our cars, not to mention I am still paying on the other car. So I think I will hold off. The current Yaris should still be around for at least another 18 months. I don't know what they will do with it for model year 2011.

kneisl1 · March 2009

Well thats definately got you on the road to spending the least ammount of money for transportation. I suspect your ECHO will hold up much longer than another 15k miles. Consider this also: even dropping a couple thou into it at that point by keeping it you reduce your overall transportation expences even further.
Im waiting for them to drop the 1.8 liter Corolla engine into the Yaris at some point. That will be a sorry day.
On the other had Im hearing about a new SMALLER than the ECHO Toyota which isnt scheduled to make it to the US but might anyway. Unfortunately it will have the 1.5 liter ECHO engine instead of an everywhere else 1 liter. It still weighs in at 1900 plus pounds though. Dollar for dollar and gallon for gallon its pretty hard to improve on the ECHO!

dake · March 2009

Is that the Aigo?

I personally want a hybrid power train in the Yaris. The Prius is really a pretty large car, and I think that power train could do wonders in something smaller. I'd give up some trunk space for the power pack.

kneisl1 · March 2009

Its called the iQ. Even with just the 1.5 liter ECHO I hear its gonna be $17,500. Prolly pushing $30k with a Prius setup. The weight would most likely be the same Prius or Yaris. Is it worth $12k to save $2k worth of gas over the cars lifetime?

nippononly · March 2009

looks pretty cool, and just the right size for me, not much larger than a Smart car, but with that crucial third seat. And at 1900 pounds, with the Echo's 1.5, it will be downright spry! :-)

And it will have a nicer interior and more features than the Echo, which is part of the reason for the $17,5 price tag, although I suspect they will offer a stripper version for more like $15K. Which might be just my speed. And I bet they can boost fuel economy into the mid-40s, what with the reduced weight and Echo's ability with decade-old tech to produce 40 mpg consistently. I am still wondering if the iQ can make it to the States in such a bad economy though...

hey kneisl1, you can have a Yaris with the Corolla 1.8 right now, it's called the Scion xD!

kneisl1 · March 2009

No no make it go AWAY!

nippononly · March 2009

Don't like the xD? I think it's OK in its own chunky way. I wouldn't buy one though.

kneisl1 · March 2009

Engines should be getting smaller not bigger!

nippononly · March 2009

But wasn't it you who just said he would like to see the Yaris with the Corolla 1.8?!

kneisl1 · March 2009

Yes but I meant it would be a horrible thing to do....

nippononly · March 2009

Oh. Well I'm looking forward to the introduction of the 1.3L engine for the base Yaris model. I'm sure in traditional Toyota manner it will be a trim with practically no options available, but it should also be very inexpensive and get really great fuel economy.

Of course that was the rumored plan when the iQ was also set to come to the U.S., and I wonder if both plans aren't on hold now with the recession.

kneisl1 · March 2009

Have you herd they are bringing the 1.3 liter engine to the US for real?

nippononly · March 2009

Well, someone in Toyota PR DID say it, but that was last fall, before everything really badly went BOOM.

As a plan it makes sense, in order to take on the new $9995 base model Versa.

entperise1977 · March 2009

Hi, I have a 2000 echo that has been giving me a lot of headaches. I am not sure if this is the right forum. If not, please re-direct me. Any way here is my problem:
My check engine light came on a while back. Went to the dealer. He diagnosed the problem to the O2 sensor. Had that replaced - no luck. Dealer suggested replacing the second O2 sensor. Had that replaced - still no luck. Had a mechanic, check and clean the complete ignition system, checked fuel pump pressure (looks good - but am told by the dealer that this could be the problem). Continue to get a 0171 error. The pump is very expensive, will change if no other options. Any suggestions are welcome.

kneisl1 · March 2009

Service manual faults for 0171:

Air induction system (dirty air filter?)
injector blocked
mass air flow meter
engine coolant temp sensor
fuel pressure (which they say is OK)
gas leakage on exhaust system'
open or short in oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor1)circuit (this would be the wiring)
sensor itself O2.

I strongly doubt the pump is to blame if the pressure is good. That would be the last thing I would change. You might check the fump and filter for blockage/debris. How is the engine running?

rcp21771 · March 2009

Greetings all,
My 2001 Echo has an issue with the driver side window. When I roll the window up, it appears to be slipping as it is being rolled up and barely closes. When I push up on the window with my hand it will close tightly.
Has anybody else encountered this issue? Any ideas on how to fix it? Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

sahara18 · March 2009

Hey Rob,
I have a 2000 Echo and I had this very same issue last fall around Labor Day. All I needed was to replace the bolt(s) inside the door that allows your manual crank to connect with the window regulator. I took it to the dealer. It took about an hour and a half because they do have to take the door apart. You may want to go to a dealership because most other shops won't have the part on hand. Should be fairly cheap, I think I paid less than $30 for the part itself.

rcp21771 · March 2009

Thanks Sahara18, I appreciate the help!

kneisl1 · April 2009

Traded in my 2004 ECHO with auto transmission at the dealer this morning for a 2009 base Yaris hatch, black with auto and options CQ, CP, and CF. Thats amfmcd, 15 inch wheels, rear wiper/washer, daytime running lights, mp3 playback capability, floor and cargo mats, tire pressure warning system, and ABS. The ding dong instrument cluster points straight back unlike the ECHOs which is angled towards the driver. It pretty hard too see the gas gauge and ODO/trip which are on the right side of the cluster.

nippononly · April 2009

5 doors or 3? And which is peppier around town, the Yaris or the Echo? Or are they both about the same?

And hey, I thought all the '09 Yarises had ABS and TPMS. That's what the sticker on the window says (not the Monroney sticker, but the one Toyota slaps on advertising all the features of the Yaris).

Do you still have an Echo left at home, or is it just your son that has one now?

kneisl1 · April 2009

Its a 3 door. Still have the origional 2001 silver five speed which my wife drives to work now. It will be nine years old this November. Tried to sell it but got no takers. So we keep it as a "Spare". Also my son is driving the 2000 auto ECHO to school and work. I drive like the proverbial slug so the five speed (VVT with intelligence) has been trained to be sluglike also. The Yaris hasnt learned my behavoir yet so its still quite peppy. Yes its very peppy I was suprised given its higher weight. Parked next to the old ECHO it is also quite a bit shorter! It has the "drive be wire" without a cable between the throttle and engine. Its quite tricky to moderate the throttle when accelerating from stopped. You push quite hard but it doesnt go! Im getting the hang of it but much prefer the cable thankyou very much! Otherwise the car drives like a dream. It seems to be a much bigger car!
Yes the Yaris came with ABS and tire monitoring. I wonder how the TM works? Is there wires and hoses going to the wheel?

nippononly · April 2009

From what I understand, TPMS involves micro transmitters in the wheels which send the tire pressures to the computer. And I agree with your assessment of Toyota's throttle by wire, it may end up being a factor in my having bought my last Toyota. The e-throttle in my Matrix is just a pain in the neck, and I don't understand how Toyota could get something so simple wrong when every other manufacturer seems not to have a problem with it.

And it's even more important when you drive a stick and have to try to manage launches from stoplights with the silly thing.

mcdawgg · April 2009

The e-throttle in my Matrix is just a pain in the neck, and I don't understand how Toyota could get something so simple wrong when every other manufacturer seems not to have a problem with it.

And it's even more important when you drive a stick and have to try to manage launches from stoplights with the silly thing.

I remember reading complaints about the drive-by-wire that Toyota uses, but also other manufacturers?

I have a '07 manual Camry with the drive-by-wire accelerator Yes, it's different, and takes some getting used to, but I have no complaints anymore. At first, yes, it was a pain.

kneisl1 · April 2009

You mean if you replace a wheel you lose the TPMS? I keep a mounted spare in the basement for eveery car i own because of getting nails in the tires so often. Im thinking these 15 inch wheels are the same as on the wifes Base Camry?

mcdawgg · April 2009

Yes, you have to have the special valve stem mounted on the wheel, or it will give you a fault light.

kneisl1 · April 2009

Hmmm how much are the stems? I mean, theyve got to be replaced when you have the tires changed, right?

NEWS FLASH! According to the parts department at Toyota the stems are $102 each! They are metal so they should last longer. But when they go its gonna cost you if you want TPMS. I wonder can you use Ford etc ones which might be less? Hmmm tire pressure gauge: FIVE DOLLARS!

mcdawgg · April 2009

When you get new tires, they just use the same part - they don't have to change it to a new one.

I agree, it is not worth it, but it is a law the government passed years ago that is requiring car makers to put a tire pressure monitoring system on all the new cars as of a certain date. I've always checked my tires every week or two, and still do. The worst case is you take a piece of black electrical tape to shut the light off if it every goes bad and you don't want to spend the $.

I am not aware of any aftermarket ones yet - if I ever have to, I'll probably use my aftermarket tape instead! I keep my cars at least 10 years (only got 2 years on the one with the tire pressure monitoring system). So far, so good. I know the system could be a big help if you get a nail in your tire or something that causes a slow leak on a long trip, so it isn't all bad, I guess.

kneisl1 · April 2009

Ha guess what I read in the OM abouit the TPMS? It doesnt detect sudden loses in tire pressure! You gotta give it 40 minutes to work! Sorry about that!
Now for some more good news! If you manage to lose all three of your keys and you have the engine disable system, they REPLACE THE ENGINE DISABLEMENT SYSTEM! You cant get new keys!

nippononly · April 2009

That doesn't sound right, I know folks with Toyotas with the engine disable system that have just purchased new keys. Of course, that is really expensive, like $100 a key. :sick:

TPMS was mandated so that folks with chronically low tires would be notified, so I guess that's how they designed the system to work - if from one day to the next your tire is low, you will be notified. TPMS was mandated as a result of the Firestone fiasco, when part of the blame for tire failures went to the very low pressure specified by the factory and that some of the incidents had involved tires that were even lower than spec.

I see that Yaris now has 60-month 0% financing AND a $1000 cash rebate in my area - the urge to trade the Echo gets ever stronger...

:-(

The one factor holding me back is I want a 3-door with a tach, and only S's have a tach, and it appears they are not building S's right now, or at least none are coming to my neck of the woods.

kneisl1 · April 2009

The info about the TPMS and engine disablement system came from the owners manul for the Yaris. Thats all I know.
The sticker for my Yaris was $14,8XX and I paid $14,2XX. (plus tax) I also got the 0% fiancing. I just brought the 04 ECHO to the dealer to see what they would give me for it. I know the trans or something is bad and I was afraid it would blow, Id be unable to find someone to fix it, (no one could diagnose it...they all said just drive it) and be unable to sell it. I didnt bring a checkbook or even the title for the 04. But despite that I drove home in a new Yaris and left the 04 ECHO with them. I had to bring the dealer the title and a $5000 check the next day. Ive also heard Toyota has a 170 day supply of Yaris's and they are not selling.
Maybe this is a good time to test the waters?

babyboomer · April 2009

With the possibility of GM discontinuing some models and name brands, I wondered what are all the model names Toyota no longer uses in the USA.

Echo, Tercel, and ___?

kneisl1 · April 2009

Cressida the car previous to the Camry. RR drive and six cylinder.

pat · April 2009

Supra is another one!

nippononly · April 2009

Previa
T100
MR2
Celica
Corona
Starlet
Paseo

Echo has the dubious distinction of occupying the most-renamed segment in Toyota's lineup, from Starlet to Tercel (including the Paseo coupe) to Echo to Yaris in 25 years. Whew!

By contrast the van changed names once (twice if you include the original "Van"), the midsize sedan has changed once (to Camry) and the compact sedan hasn't changed names at all in close to 40 years. With the advent of Yaris, Echo has been replaced by a 9/10-scale Corolla. At least the hatchback is still a small car. I hope Toyota continue to offer genuine subcompacts in its lineup in future. But if Yaris gets any bigger with the next redesign it won't qualify any more....

bamacar · April 2009

Actually Starlet and Tercel were sold at the same time. The Starlet was rear wheel drive and the Tercel front wheel. Although they were both subcompacts, I saw them as 2 very distinct models in the same segment.

Also, what about the Toyota Carina which was related to the Corona, and the Toyota Crown?

Maybe they will bring the Aygo to the US. Of course my Yaris Sedan is 6 inches longer than the 1973 Toyota Corolla sedan on which I learned to drive. All the models grew as time went by even the Corona was just slightly larger than the Yaris.

nippononly · April 2009

When the Starlet was around, the Tercel was technically the Corolla Tercel, wasn't it? I thought one had the Corolla's more powerful engine. The Starlet was a rare thing for Toyota: a real pile of junk. The Tercel was much better right from the start.

I intentionally excluded the Crown, given it was sold so long ago (in America) and only for a short while. But I was trying and failing to remember the name of the Carina, so thank you for that! :-)

I look forward eagerly to the debut of the iQ, and I hope very much that they bring the Aygo to the U.S. too, although right now odds look poor.

And how's that for a coincidence, I also learned to drive on a 70s Corolla, in my case a '75 wagon!

I think it's interesting that the Yaris hatchback has such a smaller wheelbase and length than the Yaris sedan, and I would like to see that continue in the new model, which I presume we will see late next year. The Yaris sedan is getting too big.

lhanson · April 2009

I learn more on the Yaris from reading the Echo thread that I do from reading the Yaris thread.

kneisl1 · June 2009

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17158

This shows how to add cruise control to your yaris for $10!

nippononly · June 2009

Well check that out! I think I am sticking with the Echo for a few more years though, and my Echo already has cruise.

Ever heard anything about the Michelin HydroEdge tire? Supposedly it has a 90K-mile treadwear warranty and substantially better traction in the wet than their standard Harmony tire. Wet traction is something Echo needs as much of as it can find, and this is the year when I will be replacing the tires. So I am just mulling it over, it's still a few months away....

kneisl1 · June 2009

Yes better to stick with the ECHO. I find the Yaris does not drive as well. Much heavier feeling. Not as good MPG. (but Im getting 36 on my cycle)
But if you DO get a Yaris at some point no need to spend $$$ on CC!

dake · June 2009

I'm pretty sure all Yarisii going forward have factory cruise available. It's only the early hatch-back models that didn't offer it - so by the time you buy one, you'll be able to get it.

kneisl1 · June 2009

Right....but you dont have to pay Toyota for it. Since the throttle is electrical through the ECM, the CC is programmed right into the ECM. Just add the switches and dont pay THE MAN!

nippononly · June 2009

I'm beginning to have a very strong feeling that Echo will be the last gas-powered car offered with exceptional fuel economy. The Japanese are going hybrid in a hot hurry, even as their small gas cars like Yaris make 35-36 mpg or less (Fit makes 32-33). In future they will not focus on making small cars with great FE, they will focus on upselling the folks who want high FE into hybrids.

And the Europeans are going diesel. So nobody will be making a good gas-powered car with high fuel economy in future. :-(

The only possibility is that Fiat will sell their small cars through Chrysler dealers - now those little 500s and whatnot get SUPERB mileage!

kneisl1 · June 2009

Well we can always hope. GM is supposedly planning a mini car like the Yaris. On the plus side diesel fuel is now priced below regular here in NJ.
Why no one is selling a liter car is beylond me! :confuse:

highmiler650 · June 2009

Simple. Americans do not like manual transmissions, generally speaking.
Small engines that need high RPM's to generate their power are poor candidates for automatic transmissions.

babyboomer · June 2009

What is the best replacement when all these ECHOs are gone?

kneisl1 · June 2009

Right now....nothing. Possibly I hear Toyota is going to bring the iQ here next fall. But that is far from given what with the economic climate. Instead of giving it the 1.3 liter, or the 1 liter (or even, be still my heart!) the 1.4 liter diesel, its supposed to have the 1.5 liter ECHO engine. And it still weighs nearly 2000 pounds! Not good.
I thought the Smart Car might be good but the mileage stinks...worse than the ECHO.
My friend at work has a Kia Rio that gets 23 mpg....
I hear GM is planning on building a Yaris clone with a 1.2 liter turbo charged engine. That would bear looking into. GM...who knows!
Maybe something Fiat will being to a GM merger?
Probably the ECHO be remain the all time small car champ! Nothing can touch it! Outstanding mileage, huge versatile interior, Toyota quality. Nothing comes close!

Toyota Echo

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