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Toyota Echo

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Comments

  • echothatechothat Member Posts: 8
    When I think about getting a new car, I convert a car payment to other things that I spend my money on. $300 for a payment is about two weeks of groceries, half a mortgage payment, or 23 packs of diapers.

    That usually throws water on the fire for me.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited May 2011
    Nope, that doesn't do it for me, but I do hope to pay off a few bills this year, so I don't want to have the car payment while that is going on. As much as I love the Echo's reliability, fuel economy, and simplicity, I do long to have a car with something approaching real handling. If it weren't for those debts I want to pay off, I would be in a base Mini Cooper by now. From what I understand the base model would make a great little commute car, and wouldn't cost much over $20 grand.

    Of course, it looks like Toyota actually took the Yaris redesign seriously, so that may offer an alternative to the Mini beginning late this year. I would prefer a Toyota just for the familiarity, the likely reliability, and the nearness of the dealership. But if it still handles like a soggy sponge and makes features unavailable that are standard on the most basic models from other automakers (like the Echo and also the current-model Yaris), it won't even be in the running. Let's hope Toyota has started taking the car-making business seriously again after an 8-year lapse.....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    2001 Echo, aka The Little Tank, has 125,000 miles, carries two adults and a fifteen month old, all their stuff, and still gets 40 highway, 35 city.
  • newecho2001newecho2001 Member Posts: 2
    edited June 2011
    We just bought a 2001 Manual Echo with 115,455 miles. We are having problems 3rd gear. It makes a grinding noise when you go into 3rd. Our mechanic says it needs a new transmission eventually. Anyone have the same problem or know how to fix it?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I have never had this problem with my Echo, but you know what grinding when shifting into gear usually means - either worn synchros (very expensive) or a worn-out clutch (less expensive, but not cheap).

    Of course if it's a worn-out clutch, you would typically be having similar trouble shifting into other gears as well.

    You can easily get up to 40 mph or more in second in this car, so you could potentially just start skipping third altogether once the problem with the synchros becomes bad enough that you can't engage third any more. Rev-matching when upshifting will also make it easier to shift into third.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I just got back from a trip to Alaska in my Yaris. Read bout it here:

    http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35187
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Just got back from my trip to Alaska in my Yaris. Read about it here:

    http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35187
  • newecho2001newecho2001 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks,

    Do you know if the 3rd gear can be fixed without replacing the transmission?

    The mechanic said it could go 100,00 miles without being fixed.

    Thanks!!!!!!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yes it "could". Which means maybe yes maybe no.

    I would bet yes.

    But if i had the money i would have it fixed.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    I bet you are talking about $800 to get it fixed - I'd just drive it, skipping 3rd and/or rev-matching it into 3rd.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited July 2011
    I think that may be an outdated price - these days transmission shops will often sub in a rebuilt transmission rather than replace the guts of one themselves. Since this job requires opening up the case, I am sure they would just recommend the reman route.

    And newecho2001: opening up a manual transmission is just like pulling the head off the engine - in for a penny, in for a pound. Once you get in there, you don't just replace the third gear synchro. Which is why most places will recommend replacign he trans instead of repairing the spcific problem it has.

    I would just do what mcdawgg mentioned: drive it as is, either skipping third or else rev-matching to engage it.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    The magical number of tv ads that get many car shoppers interested seems to be 40 mpg. So they go look at the hybrids even though they cost thousands more than gas only. But vehicles that achieve 40 mpg with only a gas engine have been mass produced for many years. Although the VW bug may have been the most successful seller (you can list others), I nominate the Toyota Echo as the best. What say you?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    edited August 2011
    Here! Here!

    I second it!

    Easily the best small ever made hands down. It has

    Outstanding reliability

    Outstanding fuel economy

    Small on the outside but you would never know it sitting inside.

    Car sits up high so its easy to get into.

    Very responsive and peppy engine. The engine might be the best small car engine ever made.

    Outstanding stero (3 in 1)

    The nose of the car drops away providing outstanding visibility.

    Theres more but I cant rmemeber!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    There was a red four door 2001 ECHO for sale in NJ on Clist posted this morning for $4800. It had 28,000 niles on it.

    It was gone in 45 minutes.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Before taking it to the dealer when the Check Engine light is on, make sure the gas cap and the air filter cover are secured correctly.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Merry Christmas to all the ECHO faithfull!

    Also...can we take up a collection to buy Backy some coal for his stocking? :D.
  • e50ee50e Member Posts: 4
    I bought a 2002 Echo in 2003 after doing all the research I could to ensure I was purchasing a car that would last me for a very long time with minimal hassle and great gas mileage. I had two problem cars before and I couldn't afford to go through it again!

    I LOVE my Echo. I have had it almost nine years now and have driven it everywhere BUT, I've had so much trouble with it. I am jealous when I see those for sale in perfect mechanical condition with over 200,000 miles on them. So often you read owners who say they've only need to do routine maintenance.

    So what is up with mine? Did I get the only lemon?

    Here is the list of repairs I've had to date:

    - TWO Alternators
    - Water Pump replacement (obviously something very wrong with the belt tension ruining the alternator and water pump repeatedly)
    - 2 Wheel bearings
    - Fuel injector
    - Starter
    - Have had clutch issues/clutch out of alignment
    - Exhaust leak (this is the newest problem!)

    This is on top of all of the regular maintenance I have had done including brakes, spark plugs, tires, battery, oil changes, etc.

    I try to stay positive and rationalize that all of the money I've spent on repairs probably equals the money I've saved on gas....but this is a long list that began at 75,000 miles. I'm now at 133,000. Is there anyone else out there who can empathize? Have you had similar trouble with your Echo? I want the thing to last me another 100,000 miles and I don't want another car. Am I crazy? Does my Echo have a chance?...or deserve the chance with these costly repairs (Echo parts are VERY expensive, including $500 each time for the alternator)?

    I'm really bummed. This exhaust problem now could be costly. It seems I have two major repairs a year now.

    Thanks in advance for your response!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Youve been shafted on parts and labor if you spent $500 for alternator replacement. That is an easy DIY.

    Does the dealer do your work? If so the solution might be finding a good non dealer mechanic. Dealers often lie unmercifully to the uneducated public.

    Your car is ten years old and will need work Im afraid. It comes with the teritory.

    Your car went 75k miles before needing work. thats better than average.

    I would try to DIY and look in junkyards for parts.

    Ask me and I will help/advise you.

    Exhaust system is ten years old. Not suprised it needs attention. Yeah its stainless steel and expensive. One from a low mile junker would be less.
  • e50ee50e Member Posts: 4
    Alternators for the car cost over $300. Yes, the first time I had it replaced I went to the dealer, but never again. I've since found other options that avoid paying their labor rate, which made it over $500. But, the point is, these parts are expensive regardless. I have read pages and pages of reports here of over 100,000 miles and not a single repair. It actually took 2 weeks to get the alternator the first time because no one had them. It was unheard of that an Echo would need one replaced at every shop and dealer I called. I still feel in the Echo world that I got a bad one.

    I love my car, but when twice a year I'm having to put down several hundred dollars on it, it's a bit frustrating...

    So has anyone else had repeat problems? That's what I'm more interested in hearing other than perhaps I overpaid for labor once. All of these parts that needed replacement were singular incidents where they absolutely needed to be replaced. I searched for the cheapest parts and labor after that first alternator....I'm also accepting of the fact that this car is ten years old, but what is the difference between mine and these countless others without a single repair?
  • e50ee50e Member Posts: 4
    Also, they are not easy DIYs when you live in the city and do not have a place to work on your car. On-street parking on a busy street is not the place. A handful of these have been done at home in another location because they are simple, as well as general maintenance such as oil changes, belt replacements, etc. So, instead of getting on me about not doing them all myself, have you purchased many Echo parts? They are just expensive, there is no getting around that initial cost.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Sorry I did not intend to to flagelate you. And no I have never bought parts for my ECHO (or my sons) But....if I was quoted $300 for an alternator the first thing I would do is go online and price a used one. I have to believe they are MUCH cheaper from a yard. Recently my F250 needed a blower motor. $65+ at a jobber. Delivered for $30 used parts online.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    http://www.automotix.net/usedautoparts/2002-toyota-echo-alternator-inventory.htm- l
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    My apologies to e50e above, but my Echo has reached the ripe old mileage of 168K as of last week, and still I have never had a single repair. I have done tires, batteries and oil, plus fluids filters and plugs - mine has the 60K plugs so even plugs haven't cost a lot.

    Have never even replaced the brake pads or the clutch. Still getting 40 mpg as a running average in my suburban driving, still uses no oil between changes.

    And......as of last week it is now in the hands of a friend who fell on hard times and needed a car to get to work. So my drive to the 200K mark has been cut short. :-(

    But I expect he will get at least two more years of trouble-free driving out of it, and that it will reach 200K quite easily in his hands.

    In the meantime, I have replaced it with......the new 2012 Yaris! I got an SE 5-speed, and this thing is so much fun I am making up excuses to take trips in it. And so far mileage is 44 mpg, so it is better in that respect than the Echo was due to some improvements they made for this new model, but it is still early days yet so we will see what a longer rolling average turns out to be.

    Good luck all you Echo owners! It really is a fabulous car you have there, just the right size and so reliable and cheap to operate, and e50e, to answer your question, yes I do genuinely believe that you got the only lemon, which is such a great shame as these things have proven to be such reliable cars in the hands of everyone else who has shared their experience here and in other on-line spots. I hope you do not continue to have these expensive problems with it, but if you do I hope you are shopping where you get a 12-month parts and labor warranty so that sometimes repeat repairs will be free to you. I do understand your hesitancy to plow so much repair money into such an old car, believe me, and had the Echo ever started to act up on me in the last couple of years (after it passed 125K miles), I probably would have paid for the repair and sold it. Perhaps if you are lucky this will be a "repair hump" you will get over and then you will have several years of smooth sailing with it. I will cross my fingers. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I think that guy was a troll myself...

    Since you know the owner you can still follow the car on its trip to 200,000 miles (and beyond!)

    Have you been to Yaris owners.com?

    They have a $10 way to add cruise control to your Yaris which I did and its worked perfect for 2 years on mine!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited January 2012
    I have never been to Yarisowners.com, no. I will have to check it out!

    As for cruise, the 2012 SE comes standard with cruise, so no need to add it. As good as the Rostra was on the last car, I wanted a car with factory cruise this time. The only thing it didn't have that I intend to add was satellite radio. For now I will continue to use my plug-n-play Sirius radio, but I want to get rid of the wires and make it tuneable through the car's stereo, so I will shop around and see what I can find.

    And yes, I will still be able to keep tabs on my Echo, but this guy is hard on cars, so honestly my worry is not that the Echo would get to 200K miles trouble-free but that its new owner will manage to kill it before its time. :-(

    Oil changes are a VERY foreign concept for this guy, let alone any other type of maintenance........

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    www.yarisworld.com

    I am bronsin
  • e50ee50e Member Posts: 4
    I do research on every part. I don't just blindly hand money over. Anyway, parts for an F250 are cheaper and more common than those for an Echo. Just how it is. Also, with two alternators going right in a row, it's worth getting a warranty on the part.

    So I guess I got the only bad one! Thanks for the confirmation...
  • mfumfu Member Posts: 1
    I got mine up past 110 but was scared to push the full 130. It woulda took too long and strained it too much.. but I think it could've got it!
  • echofanechofan Member Posts: 20
    My experience with alternators has been that the original lasts over 10 years, but the replacements only last 3 or so. Have always bought rebuilts, which I guess is why. But now I've noticed some aftermarket ones described as "new" that are priced like rebuilt ones (~$120). What's the deal? I'm guessing they're cheapos that might not last any longer than a rebuilt. For twice that I can get a new original dealer one. Would like to go ahead & replace my 02's alternator & starter even though they're working now, just so I can do it on my own schedule & not have to do it in a parking lot somewhere.

    But don't want to hafta do it again in 2-3 years; heck, the ones I have now might well last that much longer anyway... Anyone have any suggestions?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Yes buy one of the "origional" alternators that last for 10 years out of wreck for $79.

    3 year old wreck = 7 more years of happiness.

    As far as replacing yours I wouldnt do it.

    Oh wait I know.

    Go ahead and replace them but keep them so when the replacements blow out on you, you can put the origionals back in. :D

    Seriously ECHOS last FOREVER so dont mess with your good one.

    EXCEPT for that troll guy with the cursed ECHO. :sick:

    Dont go anywhere near his car or your might catch the badness. :P
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    LOL! Since writing that post more than five years ago I found out the governor-limited top speed of the Echo is 108 mph. So unless you defeated the governor it is likely your speedo was just exaggerating a bit when you did your speed run. But this car has a ton of guts all the way up to its top speed, that's for sure.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    By the way, the ones that the dealer sells aren't new, they are rebuilds. They are generally better rebuilds than the after market ones IMO, but they still won't last anywhere near as long as the ACTUALLY new ones (at least they were new when the car was!) in your car now.

    Always wait until the original starter and alternator go before replacing them, they are much better than anything you can buy to replace them.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I had my ECHO upy to 106 once. There was a Left Lane Blocker on the NJTPK. He would speed up so no one could pass him. Mercedes, BMWs, and all sorts tried but the couldnt. Suddenly I found myself in a position to pass him. I put my foot on the floor and left it there. The car was going so fast i didnt dare look at the speedo. Finally he backed off and I had the left lane all to myself!

    When I looked down the speedo said 106.
  • moparblue2moparblue2 Member Posts: 86
    We have 04 Echo & the speedo is fast 4 mph. Checked with are GPS. My 02 Dodge truck is right on the money with the GPS :) .
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    I think the speed of the car is determined by the rotation of the wheels, which may be off if the rim and/or tire sizes have been changed. The GPS uses satellite technology. I would think the GPS is more accurate. Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Speedometers are set approx. 3 mph high on purpose.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    In my town we have those radar triggered speed limit signs. Theres a digital readout of your speed as you approach it. The speedos on the cars are accurate. But my motorcycles are about 5-7 mph too fast.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    I should have said on Toyotas they are generally 3 mph too fast.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I agree. When I am in a Toyota, I always subtract 2 mph from the speedo automatically to get true speed.

    Hondas are even worse - they got sued on that some years back and lost.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    I read in a newspaper auto advice column that wheel mounts in Toyotas are known to need replacing sooner than others. This was a shock to me because I have never replaced them on any Toyota. I wonder if there are other Toyota parts that wear out sooner than in other makes.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Read in one advice column? Not a very good source of information. Was it engine mounts, or wheel bearings? You said engine mounts in title, but "wheel mounts" in the text. Long time owner, never replaced an engine mount, even with over 100,000 miles and over 10 years old. Wheel bearings? Yes, replaced one, but it was also the same one that I was forced to hit a curb with to avoid an accident. A few years later, I had to replace that wheel bearing, but probably due to hitting the curb.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Never heard of problems with wheel bearing or engine mounts on Toyotas

    However...

    On the Yaris the water pumps are experiencing early failures. Which is strange because I never heard of an ECHO experiencing a wp failure and they have the exact same engine.

    Mine failed at 27k miles and was replaced under warranty.

    I suspect the percentage of cars affected is quite small but nevertheless this is unheard of in my experience with Toyotas.

    See Yarisworld.com for posts concerning this.
  • babyboomerbabyboomer Member Posts: 205
    Engine mounts in a five or six year old Camry. Mechanic told the owner to replace them and the column writers agreed. I wish I had saved the article.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Right, all I am saying is that you cannot judge anything for one report, one article, whatever. Maybe this was a salvage car, maybe it was used to race, who knows?? Bottom line is engine mounts are not something that is replaced often (mostly never) with under 200,000 miles in any Toyota that I know of. Check Toyotanation.com.
  • mcg11191mcg11191 Member Posts: 4
    I have a 2000 Toyota Echo with automatic transmission. My transmission position indicator light in the center console no longer comes on consistently when I drive at night. I'd say it might be a light bulb out, but it does come on sometimes. I suppose it could be the light bulb, or it could be whatever switch that turns the light on when driving at night (which I assume is somehow wired to the headlights and other night running lights). Or a fuse. Has anyone else encountered this problem, and what's the best way to troubleshoot it? I'm not sure I can do it myself, but I'd like to try.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    It probably just a dirty lightbulb socket. Cant be a fuse or the bulb itself cause it works sometimes. If you take the plastic off the shift lever console perhaps you can get to the point where you can see the bulb. Removing and replacing it a few times should clean the socket up.

    I will check my ECHO service manual when I get home and see whats involved.
  • mcg11191mcg11191 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the tip. Now, I just have to figure out how to get the console cover off.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I have the picture of the assembly from the manual. There is a single screw holding the plastic cover surrounding the shift lever. It is under a piece of carpet trim all the way to the rear of the cover. It looks like a cup holder. If you can get it off you MIGHT be able to access the bulb. It looks like an old small flash bulb. There is a short wire harness with a connector at each end. Only four small bolts hold the shifter to the floor. I dont know if its necessary to remove it the bulb might be accessable as it sits.

    If you could give me your address i could make a copy of the diagrams and send it to you.

    But personally you know it might be the better part of discression to leave well enough alone.
  • moparblue2moparblue2 Member Posts: 86
    You will never no if you can fix it if you do not try. I had cover off our 04 to ajust the E Brake. ;)
  • mcg11191mcg11191 Member Posts: 4
    I'm the one who posted about the intermittent outage of the light that shows what gear you're in on the automatic transmission of my 2000 Echo. Well, I never did get around to figuring out how to get the console apart to check out the bulb and contacts, but I did take the car in to get a new battery today, and the light seems to be working fine now, when it pretty much stopped working altogether a couple of nights ago. The battery in the car was seven years old and I'd been meaning to replace it, anyway. While researching the light problem, I read that some people who owned various models of cars had interior lights fail, and then noticed the lights would work when they installed a new battery. It seems to have fixed my problem, thus far. Of course, since it was an intermittent outage, I'll have to wait and see. But it's something to consider when lights go wonky and the battery is old.
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