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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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Comments

  • rexconde1rexconde1 Member Posts: 278
    I believe the problem was with the Fan switch. It was on the 4.4 liter engine. The same thing happened on a number of X5's Ouch. Supposedly there was a fix out for it in July.

    R
  • tbrown_4tbrown_4 Member Posts: 27
    No it affects the 6 cyl engines too like the 530i and 330xi. My X5 wasn't recalled because it was one of the earlier ones, but the July recall itself was just recently recalled because the problem still wasn't fixed and recalled cars were still having problems. I have to say that I haven't been completely happy with BMW's response to this major issue even though my vehicle wasn't affected.
  • 2ndmb2ndmb Member Posts: 72
    Thanks for the feedback,now I have to decide if I want to spend $400 for Bilsteins plus install. Sounds like it's cheaper that trading in my E for a C320 with a Sport package.....I'll let you know what I end up doing.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    It's one thing to have a car broken down on the street but it's another much more serious matter to have it burn down your house putting the lives of your family at risk.

    Not happy with how BMW is dealing with this major problem at all.
  • rab5rab5 Member Posts: 12
    My 1999 E320 had a squeak / groan in steering area . Sounds like the same problem you are having. Take it to dealer. They are aware of problem and have a special lub. supplied by factory to fix the problem. It took about 1 hour to get my car back. No charge and car has been as quiet as can be since then.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Inasmuch as I am considering either an E-Wagon or 5-series Sedan (depends on which vehicle we decide to replace) I appreciate everyone's posts here and on the 5-series board. I have pretty much ruled out getting a C32 for a variety of reasons, at least one of which has been the significant numbers of problems and poor quality control reported on the new C class forum (not to mention that it is not the most practical way to spend $53k).

    However, notwithstanding W210's concern about the fan/overheating problem, my research and anectodal evidence from friends and business associates seems to indicate a higher level of satisfaction and fewer problems with BMW 5-series than Mercedes E's. Early (1997/8) E's seemed to have a lot of electrical problems and I have one friend who is quite unhappy with his 1997 E420 with only 45k miles. He is a longtime Mercedes loyalist and claims that this car has been a rather dissapointing experience. Granted, very limited database, but those that I've talked to about their similar age 528 and 540's seem relatively satisfied.

    Can anyone point me to a good comparison of long term reliability between E's and 5's??
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    I think it's more relevant to worry about the current problems of the E and the 5 series. I think both MB and BMW do constantly try to work out the small bugs as am ongoing process.

    What a 1997 E-class owner experiences may not be that relevant compared to what a 2001/2002 owner tells you. For example, I have friends complaining how unreliable BMW engines are, but then, he had a 1994 first generation V8 with a known problem which BMW had already rectified.

    As I said, I worry about the the current fire recall than anything.. I'm curious how many BMWs actually caught on fire like the one I saw on the news.
  • tunde07tunde07 Member Posts: 2
    Hi All,

    Does anyone know where I can get a nice CD changer, other than the MB? How difficult is it to install? It's for 98'CLK.

    Thanks.
  • cce182cce182 Member Posts: 40
    Bigrob!

    Who is your dealer in NH? Is it Holloway in Manchester, or Dreher-Holloway in Portsmouth?

    I bought my car from Manchester, there have been numerous electronic problems that they try to fix by swapping parts, and there are still problems.

    Interestingly, they have been doing the repsirs "under the radar screen" in an attempt to get good feedback for the JDPowers surveys. Seems that JDPowers results affect the dealers ability to get priority on scarce-car deliveries from the factory.

    I'd like to know more about who is working on your car and compare notes.

    Thanks in advance.
  • bigrobnhbigrobnh Member Posts: 114
    cce182,
    My experience was in Manchester as well...
    I contacted MB customer care via e-mail and they pointed out to me that each dealership is independantly owned and operated and I need to take it up with them. If it's they who have the problem I don't see a resolution.
    As another poster pointed out I'll attribute it to lack of competition. Up here it's much easer to get my tractor serviced than it is my MB.
    I'll contact you via e-mail off line.

    Thanks,
    BigRob.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    BigRob - I think the person answering your email is junior and she/he simply wanted to pass the ball back to you.

    If I were you, I would get the name of that person's supervisor or ask the email address of a more senior customer service representative.
  • e320wag4mat1e320wag4mat1 Member Posts: 3
    just passed the 35k mark and thought i'd give my 3 and 1/2 year impressions of this wagon. i believe it is the best car for all purposes money can buy. AWD system ,esp to stop skidding, ward mag top ten engine 2 years running, largest cargo space...bigger then a lot of SUV...can fit seven (two kids in third hidden seat) xeon headkights work great, smooth ride,.not sure what else one really needs more in an auto...safe,comfortable,roomy ,great gas milage..best v6 in any car...no mAJOR PROBLEMS...
    WHY ONLY BUILD A FEW THOUSAND A YEAR...
    GREAT RESALE VALUE
    oil changes every 10-15k
    great bose sound system with 6 cd changer
    etc
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    Many 5 series apparently have a problem with the door weather seals, for additional reading:


    http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9647

  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ...with your jabs at BMW. I/we happen to currently own both an "E" (1999 Wagon) and a "5" (2000 540i 6-speed). I have owned several previous Mercedes and BMWs as well. Personally, I find Mercedes or BMW owners that feel compelled to put down their counterparts to be obnoxious, insecure, or both.

    Assuming you actually own an E, you are fortunate to have a great car. Not, however, quite as well put together as a 5, IMHO. I have been back to the Mercedes dealer a few more times for stupid fixes than I have to the BMW dealership. And, by the way, our Wagon even overheated once whereas my 540i has never had any such problem! Does this compel me to rag on Mercedes over at the BMW forums? Not at all. The E320 Wagon is still head and shoulders the best wagon out there for our needs (5-series wagons are "wannabes" as far as people and cargo capacity) and I am highly comforted that my kids are being hauled around in one of the safest vehicles available at any price.

    To each their own and enjoy your E for what it is, not for what it isn't.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    As an owner of both the E and 5 series how would compare ther relative sense of solidity? I have my opinion but I'm interested in hearing from somebody who has put in a lot more seat time than I.

    Thanks
  • 2ndmb2ndmb Member Posts: 72
    Having owned a 97 BMW 528 before my 2000 E320, I can say both of these vehicles represent the best in their class. Quality and reliability go to the BMW, (not by much) but the E class is an outstanding car and in it's own way provides comfort and luxury that in my opinion surpasses BMW, which is sportier, MB is more luxury and comfort. Either way, how can anyone really complain or make the wrong decision.....
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Like I said, I think both are excellent cars for different reasons / purposes. As to which is there more solid car, that's a tough one. I find the 540i to be "tighter" handling and steering than the Wagon and therefore seems a little more "solid". However, part of our decision to get the Mercedes Wagon was based upon a friend who had a late 80's vintage that drove extremely well at 175k miles. I think our BMW might hold up better because I drive it mostly on the highway and the Mercedes is used by my wife for a lot of short hops. But, other than the handling factor which BMW clearly makes a higher priority, I think both are very solid cars. I also agree with 2ndmb that the E is a more luxurious ride. I'd usually rather be driving the BMW, but I'd rather be a passenger in the Mercedes. Now, what is your opinion?
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188


    I find blind criticism to be unconstructive too.

    What I put down are precise and specific feedback from BMW users. The overheating fire recall is very real (and so is the recall on the recall), and there seems to an ongoing issue with weather strip squeaking on 5 series which requires too frequent maitenance just like the weak windshield wiper blade on the current E-class that doesn't last long enough.

    Endless praise or general criticism on either car don't help new users. Any idiot will know that both are fine cars but would appreciate more detailed and specific observations and feedback.

    Generalizing which brand is better or worse is silly, it all depends on the specific model and personal preference. I would pick the E320 over the 530i, the 540i over the E430, the E320 wagon over a 530i wagon, and the E55 over the M5, and probably the E430 4matic over the 540i.

    Looking at the history or reputation of past BMWs or MBs in the 80s or 90s is not really that relevant to the current car buyer. One needs to look at the current pros and cons affecting both cars. For additional recalls and technical service bulletins on either car, see www.alldata.com

    One area people often forget is the quality of the local BMW or MB dealership. It makes a big difference on the level of ownership satisfaction.

    "I find the 540i to be "tighter" handling and steering than the Wagon and therefore seems a little more "solid""

    I rest my case with you and will not comment on your observation.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    First of all when I say solidity I am refering to how much the car feels like one solid piece. Having driven an 98 E320 and and 01 525I in the same day IMHO the 5 series felt more solid. This impression was based on being able to feel minor road imperfections through the E320's floor boards. Whereas even though the 5 series had the stffer sport suspension, minor road imperfections didn't result in any vibrations in the chassis. As a result my impression was that the 5 series felt more solid and is one of the best drivers sedans ever made.

    Having said that I much prefer the styling of the E320.
  • 2ndmb2ndmb Member Posts: 72
    Gee, Some of us are a little sensitive about this topic. Everyone's experience is going to be different based on their expectations. So having owned both, here is my assessment.
    SERVICE DEPT BMW= A MB B-
    HANDLING BMW= B+ MB C+
    POWER BMW C+ MB B+ 320 VS 528I
    WIND NOISE BMW C+ MB A+
    Body RIGIDITY BMW B+ MB A
    FUEL ECON BMW B-(23)MB B+ (27hwy)
    VALUE BMW B- MB B-
    PROBLEMS BMW A MB B (minor, none major)
    NEXT CAR? EITHER WAY
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    It's all personal but I actually prefer the looks of the current 5 series over the E-class. Still not quite used to the 4 round lights on the E. Which one will 'age more gracefully' is anyone's guess!
  • valueguyvalueguy Member Posts: 208
    These cars are very close in terms of quality and
    re-sale. It comes down to personal preference.
    I like the current 5 series (540 IA) and of course, I like my '00 E430 Sport. The Bimmer is more pure sports car than the M-B. The interior and drive of the M-B is a bit more luxury oriented.
    I enjoy the extra room the E Class affords over the BMW.

    As for reliability over 7-8 years I still believe my M-B will hold up better than the Bimmer. But, I purchased the extended warranty anyway for peace of mind.

    Finally, I like the next generation 5 series more than the next generation E class. So, if interior room improves and quality remains solid I may trade my '00 E430 for a 540IA or M-5 with 500HP.
  • varigvarig Member Posts: 99
    I know there are going to be some slight cosmetic changes (ie. headlights) in the 03 model, but is anything more substantial changing?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I believe the changes are more than just cosmetic. The dealer I spoke to has seen the new E prototype in Germany and indicated that the entire interior layout is new and follows the S & new C class style. He also indicated the chassis / suspension and, possibly, U.S. engine selections, will be new. I have been impressed with the ergonomics of the new C class (have been eyeing a C32), but they are having major electonics bugs, mostly related to the sophisticated but fragile programmable keys. Hopefully by the time it comes out the new E will have the benefits without the bugs.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    AFAIK, it is a full redesign. Latest safety features, electronic braking, etc.
    If you don't like having bugs, I wouldn't recommend getting any first year model...it'll have cool new features, along w/ cool new bugs :-P
  • varigvarig Member Posts: 99
    why a car that costs so much is almost "expected" to have bugs whereas a relatively cheap Honda or Toyota is expected to be perfect. Just like I've always heard, "the more gadgets you have the more likely one of them will break". Same principle here I guess.

    BTW: if you have time, can you compare the ergonomics of the current E with the C and S. You said the new E will be more like these models.

    Thanks!
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    It's more the new cars nowadays w/ all the features (although you could argue it has always happened with any new car). Check out the quirks in the X5 and MDX. The X5 had lots of weird problems in the first year. Lately, they've had fan fire problems.
    You've heard of the new C's squeaks, keys, trunk, etc.
    I'm sure Hondas and Toyotas have problems in the first year:
    The MDX had suspension pieces making weird noises, interior pieces falling off, noise sloshing, etc.
    The RX300 had stuff like the sunroof cover sliding by itself when you're on a hill, etc.
    Just read the forums of *any* car in the first year of production and you'll see...
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    The Lexus LS430 and GS430 both have their share of first year minor problems, check out their respective boards here. The LS430 being the first major upgrade while the GS430 had gone through a minor face lift.

    Minors bugs don't bother me as long as the manufacturer knows how to solve the problems and the issues can be quickly addresses at the dealer level. What I dislike is having to go back and forth dealing with the same bugs over and over again..
  • bigrobnhbigrobnh Member Posts: 114
    I'll second that! These are complex mechanical devices. Something will go wrong (and has on every car I've ever purchased). As W210 points out, the key is how efficiently and effectively the problems are addressed.
    And don't you think that people that purchase this calibre car have higher expectations? I now I personally have lived with things w/my CRX, 626 and Camry that I would have "gone off" on the MB dealer for. My wifes Subaru rides like a shopping cart but, you know, it's just a Subaru...

    Later,
    BigRob.
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    I love both of these marques and try to always have at least one from each company in my garage at all times. My two favorite cars of all time are the BMW 540 wagon (2000) and the Mercedes SL.

    I think that BMW got the message that they needed to cut costs long before Mercedes did and, as a result, has had more time to understand how to produce better products for less money. I think Mercedes is still experimenting (what else could explain their baffling inability to design a proper cupholder or the incredibly cheap plastic bins in the front of the seats of their flagship car the CL?) but will eventually get there.

    Life is good that we get to choose between these two fantastic auto makers
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    The journalists who meet these German designers used to talk of a lingering arrogance the designers could have. This might explain the often flimsy cupholders. My bottom-feeder 1993 Taurus(which I still miss)had great cupholders. My 2001 Passat has terrible ones. Porsche is only adding them to its flagship this year. The auto mags sometimes suggest the German response is that we need to keep both hands on the wheel at all times,and that a cup of hot coffee has no place in a speeding car. So the holders they do give us are done begrudgingly.I have to admit I do agree with this-I rarely drink in my car.
    I do think that Lexus has taught the Germans to give the customer what he wants,right or wrong.That is an economic reality,but professional designers do have a clear vision of what a model should be.
    If you listen too muich to a customer's whims,you get things like too outside thermometers in the interior of the Lexus LS430.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    That's because Europeans take driving more seriously than we do. No drinking, eating, putting makeup on, shaving while driving. I've seen people smoke while driving though, so that puzzles me.
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    The cup holders in the E are just fine. Most people whom see it in operation think its it neat. The ones in the back work ok two. I think its very much overblown subject in the press.

    The only thing that took me by surprise was the lack of rear reading lamps. My old s class had them and my kids love to read by them. We were driving along and my son asked me where they where! It got by me when buying the car. I think in o1' you had to get the "parktronic" option to recieve them.
  • dkatlantadkatlanta Member Posts: 23
    Based largely on walto's comments here, I replaced the stock shocks on my 2000 E320 with Bilsteins. I'm very pleased with the results. Just as walto said, the car has improved in handling, stability and smoothness, with very little trade-off in terms of a stiff ride. The car stays more level and better planted. Steering feel is improved, and fewer steering corrections are required in curves. The car is less upset by bumps. In sum, it's both sportier and more relaxing to drive--similar to BMW's combination of smoothness and control.

    Like walto, I used the "heavy duty" Bilsteins, rather than the "sports," which are even stiffer.

    Thanks for the suggestion, walto!
  • svinaiksvinaik Member Posts: 84
    Daniel / Walto,

    how much do they cost fully installed?. Also do the MB dealers do this or you have to get this done at an outside shop..

    Thanks
  • dkatlantadkatlanta Member Posts: 23
    I paid a little over $100 per shock for the parts. Adding in installation, alignment, and taxes, the total cost came to around $700. I went through a tire store that had been highly recommended by the dealership. Although I imagine the dealership would also have done the work, I didn't ask because I assumed they'd be more expensive and less willing to help order a part from any supplier other than Mercedes.

    I could have purchased the shocks from AutoZone, probably for a few dollars less, but figured that if a problem arose with the shocks (e.g., wrong ones, defects), it would be much simpler if had purchased the shocks through the same outfit that installed them.

    Incidentally, the tire shop said it checked with three wholesalers and found a wide disparity in prices and availability.
  • gadomgadom Member Posts: 16
    I agree the design is slick. But is it functional. I use the cup holder every day and I can state that it is not. First, unless you are using soda cans you essentially only have one cup holder up front. Second, the design does not hold the cup in place very well. The result is that every time I brake hard or take a tight turn, or sometimes just slow down the cup flies out. I have tried every manner of cup and finally I just got one with a sealed top. I got into the habit of holding onto the cup anytime I slow down.

    On the other hand, my Toyota Sienna has great cup holders. I have put all sorts of cups and glasses in it (even kitchen glasses and coffee mugs) and have never had a problem or a spill.

    I did not buy the mercedes for its cup holders and I would buy it again. I do think the engineers at MB could try harder to design a cup holder that would be functional as well as slick looking.
  • gadomgadom Member Posts: 16
    My 2001 E320 manual states the inflation pressure is 27 psi. Given the problems with tire separation and accidents with other makes of cars where tire pressure was apparently an issue, should I be concerned? It seems like a low pressure. Thanks.
  • jneejnee Member Posts: 21
    Hello everyone! State Farm is the insurance company for my 2001 E320, but I can't get them to give me a discount on my policy even though I have tele aid. State Farm says they recognize lojack but they do not recognize tele aid(something about it being monitored by MB). Anyone have State Farm and was able to receive the discount(I'm in the NY area)? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • joeadpjoeadp Member Posts: 68
    Does mercedes make a touch up paint in a spray can?

    I scuffed the bottom of the front bumper.

    Thanks.
  • workinfromhomeworkinfromhome Member Posts: 2
    Two years ago I came to this discussion area for input from people who actually purchased the car (not the salesman) for a reasonably fair comparison with the BMW 5 series. After research and test drives I ended up with the 99 320 with most of the options except the 4 wheel drive. After 24 months this is what I can say for those looking today.

    PROS

    *Power seems more than adequate.
    *Service at the dealer was the BEST I received for any car I purchased or leased.
    *Traction control and ABS work great for a northeast based car and all the snow we get. Keep in mind I did have to get 4 more wheels mounted with a set of Blizzaks to feel safe though. No complaints - great solution from tirerack.
    *Great stereo with cdjukebox. Generally I have always preferred after market units with separate amps etc so I can relive my teenage past but overall the systems is pretty good (ovrpriced though). A direct optical link fromt he cd to the head is a great feature to reduce noise.
    *For the many messages on cupholders (why?) They are just fine in front and back.

    CONS
    *The car has had a few too many issues requiring service (although the service dept was great)
    *Tapping rubbing noise the the roof area by the sunroof never fixed.
    *Tempermental window height problem with rear window that would often not close all the way.
    *Electronic key that requires a laser pointer and guidance system to get it to work at more than 24 inches to open the trunk or unlock doors.
    *Somewhat sloppy handling on turns although on strait roads is much nicer than BMW. Guess I need non-MB Shocks (recommendations welcome.
    *Sqweaky steering wheel (fixed after two tries).

    Would I buy again over the BMW? Yes, but I would prefer a better perfoirmance package for suspension.
  • amaseiamasei Member Posts: 2
    I just purchased a new 2002 E430 4matic. Love the car. But I am disappointed with the variable speed volume control feature for the radio/CD. As the car slows down, the volume automatically decreases. When the speed of the car falls below 20 MPH, there is a noticeable decline in the volume level. This bulletin board indicated that this feature could be disabled by the Service manager. Unfortunately, that is not the case with the new 2002 model year. The service manager told me that this feature could no longer be disabled and that the volume level changes at 20, 40, and 60 MPH to adjust for engine noise. Has anyone else experienced this audio level drop off??

    On a separate note, I used the Zaino products (Z1, Z2, Z6 (detail spray?), tire care and wash)on my car 6 days after I bought the car. I have a Black car and it looks outstanding. I put 3 coats of Z2 on the car and it looks even better than the day I picked it up from the dealer.

    This is my first Mercedes-Benz and I am looking forward to joining the MB family....
  • workinfromhomeworkinfromhome Member Posts: 2
    Actually I saw that as a positive especially when getting on the highway. Seemd nice to me to have the volume auto adjusted for road/engine noise.

    As far as polishes, there are many good alternatives like "Z" - some are not even too expensive. Much depends on the climate. In the northeast an annual paint cleaning for oxidation in the spring with clearcoat safe polish is just about he only way to keep a durable shine before waxing. I prefer spending the time to do it by hand since machines tend to rub edges too much if you move too slow.
  • mymaximamymaxima Member Posts: 8
    I got an offer to buy a 97 E420 with sport package. Considering the age of the car, already 4 yrs old, would it be a good car to own for next 10 years?
  • amaseiamasei Member Posts: 2
    I like the concept of the audio system automatically adjusting the volume for environmental noise. The problem with current system is that it lowers it TOO much when the speed drops below 20 MPH. At times, you can barely hear the music when you come to a stop light. It would be nice to be able to adjust the sensitivity of the system. With the windows up, the car is almost as quiet at 60 MPH as it is at a stop sign - but the system still lowers the volume level. It seems that the logic for adjusting the volume is based more on the speed of the car than the true cabin "noise".
  • ab20ab20 Member Posts: 5
    I have one that I bought a year ago (non-sport). Absolutely a great car, no-one can believe that it is not brand new (except the few that know benzes).
    I would jump on a sport model as long as well maintained. Let me know if you want to trade wheels . . . :-)
  • paulj01paulj01 Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking for tires that will be quieter than the original Goodyear tires and will perform better in snow. I'm in the Northwest so dry and wet conditions are most common conditions, but I do need to be able to drive a bit in the snow. I'm considering the Michelin Pilot XGT, but wondered if anyone had some thoughts to add.
  • w210w210 Member Posts: 188
    Amasei - check with your foreman at another dealership, I doubt what the service manager tells you..
  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    I am cosidering also for my E430. I have heard and read good things about the Yokohama dB's. seems good price point vs mich's.

    Perhaps some whom have these on 17' rims could lend comment on their experiece so far.

    Adjustable volume: Dealer can change the level of adjustment. I find that some cds react differently to adjustment. It mostly becomes an issue at lower volumn when I have a passanger. Since I had it adjusted I have not noticed it too much. So perhaps not a problem anymore.
  • coallencoallen Member Posts: 4
    4MATIC owners may want to read this post especially if you are hearing a whine from your steering. My dealer feels that the whine results from a design defect that is described below. I would like to hear from anyone that is experiencing a similar issue.

    I have a 2000 E320 4MATIC purchased new in 5/00 with 11,000 miles. Periodically, I have heard noises (light whine) from my steering column. The dealer replaced the steering rack twice and then made a adjustment to the heat shield. The noise usually occurs after about 30 minutes of city driving especially in warmer weather.

    The service advisor now tells me that he believes that this problem results from a design defect with the 4MATIC vehicles. Apparently, the exhaust system is routed differently on 4MATICs and the heat shield is also different (shorter I think). There is a rubber mount (it is lubricated) on the firewall that the steering column passes through. The steering column has a nylon bushing on it and the nylon bushing contacts the rubber mount. My dealer feels that the heat shield design is defective. The heat shield is to short and does not provide adequate protection. As a result, the grease between the rubber mount and nylon bushing is eventually cooked away. Then the whine occurs. My rubber mount is now chewed up and the dealer will be replacing it. Problem is that this doesn't cure the design defect.

    The dealer has seen this issue in three other cars and has worked with the local Mercedes rep to develop a plan to TRY to correct. The dealer is ordering a heat shield for a normal E320 and then custom cutting is so that is longer that the 4MATIC heat shield, but still fits. The dealer has completed this fix on three cars but doesn't know if it will work.

    Needless to say, the dealer cannot guarantee that this will fix the problem. He thinks it may, since the "retrofitted" cars haven't developed the whine in the few months since they were worked on. This process is a major job as it involves taking out the steering rack, column, heat shield, rubber mount, etc..

    Anyone else having this issue or had it fixed?
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