Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

merc1 · June 2002

I just checked out the website, man MB is starting in early with the new car stuff. They usually don't release this much info until at least August. Mercedes-Benz may take back the sales crown for 2003 with all this new product.

M

lhcleung · June 2002

Jean: Thanks for the info. But I believe that the E320 Benz is quiet enough. I think it has a lot to do with personal bias or preference. I think, those associations or organziations may have their own agenda, at least a small portion.
Louis

magnetophone · June 2002

Gosh, 73K is rather high!

glamourlife · June 2002

Many of BMW's best models, 3 series--(coupe, cab, sedan, &wagon) Z3, and X5 are all made in America. As time progresses more Mercedes models will also be built here. The ML had Major problems for its first few years. The 2002 slight overhaul went a long way to bring the SUV up to Benz standards.

I think that the 2004 model redesign, and the upcoming GST, redesigned G-wagon will all eventually be produced in Alabama. By that time I think there will be little to no difference in factory quality and vehicle tolerances. I would still take a 2002 ML500 or X5 over any midsize SUV competitor.

Kirstie_H · June 2002

A major daily newspaper is looking for people who bought used luxury cars with the idea of moving upscale at discounted prices only to find out that the cost of parts and service was greater than expected. Were you surprised or shocked by the cost of routine maintenance and common repairs like mufflers, brakes, shocks and struts, transmissions, headlight replacement, etc.?

If so, please send an e-mail containing your contact information and vehicle description to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, June 12.

wbreaux · June 2002

I just saw on the Mercedes web site that the 2003 E320 will do 0-60 in 7.7 and the E500 5.9. My 2000 E320 was listed my Mercedes as 7.1 seconds. Any idea on how the 2003 could be that much slower to 60 mph?

magnetophone · June 2002

glamourlife, they don't make the 3-series in America.

valueguy · June 2002

The 3, 5 and 7 series are all built in Germany. (I have a '02 330.)
The G wagon is built like a tank, albeit a 20 year old one. My friends who own a G wagon appreciate the solid steel construction and detail the OLD M-B is famous for. The new products, IMHO, are using M-B's reputation for quality to sell cars. But, in 20 years time will that reputation remain intact? I seriously doubt it. I envision the day when the LEXUS nameplate is the standard by which quality is measured and that day is almost here.

As for the best SUV, Lexus/Toyota wins that match easily. As a side note my friend just traded his problem ridden '00ML for a '02 Acura MDX and he can not believe how much better built the Acura is. I would much rather have a Land Cruiser then a ML or X5 in terms of quality.

My hope is that the new E re-establishes M-B as the leader in quality. My next car will be fast and reliable. The ball is in M-B's court.

splitoe · June 2002

I purchased a 2001 E320 last year. It's a great car. However, I did experience a lot of problems and replaced the following items:
muffler, fuel injector control unit, sun shade, air conditioner fan control unit. Some of the problems were intermittent and required more than one trip to the dealer.
In addition the dealer replaced cable (twice) and engine mount to curb excessive vibration in idle with little luck. Finally the dealer claimed it was normal. MB sent mechanics to do engine tests and reported it normal, but they didn't (couldn't, maybe?) do vibration test. I even wrote to MB and got the response of everything normal, case closed.
Anyone know how to pursue from here? Is there any state (CA) office or any consumer agency to report to? I always have much better luch with Toyota's and this is my first MB. I cancelled my C-class order and got back my $2000 deposit after experiencing the first few problems with my E320.

polo2928b · June 2002

I have a "00" 528 which I love but is a lease and I am buying my next car whihc will be a 5 series or the E class, has anyone driven both cars and has an opinion about it, although I must confess I have never driven a car as a BMW, it is definitely the ultimate driving machine

benznut · June 2002

73 is way too much for an E, even a new one.

"The new products, IMHO, are using M-B's reputation for quality to sell cars. But, in 20 years time will that reputation remain intact? I seriously doubt it" - MB has a hundred-year-old history. It would not have been such had they let things slip, even for a half-car-generation worth of cars. They are already making a noticeable turn. In my opinion, the reputaion will be even better in the future, as well as possessing something that, until a little while ago, belonged exclusively to BMW.

rayberg7 · June 2002

I just returned from a trip to Europe, where I looked at the new E class at the dealer showroom.
I took some pictures that you won't see at MBUSA.com, but I can't figure out how to attach them to this message. Anyway, the trunk of the 2003 seems to be a welcome 6 to 8 inches deeper. I saw one with a ski sleeve, but I didn't see any with fold down rear seatbacks. The cars I looked at had no spare tire. They have eliminated the cup holder, not that what we have in the 2000-2002 was any good. There is a cover in the console that opens to a hole about 2 by 4 inches. Maybe Mercedes will furnish an odd-shaped cup for it. Some of the cars had a cleanable, 5-spoke wheel, but others had a wheel that would be harder to clean than the ones on my 2000 E-320. Since I was traveling to Eastern Europe as well as Germany, I couldn't rent a Mercedes. But I was impressed with the 2-liter Ford Mondeao diesel that I did drive. It had plenty of power and gave great mileage, even though I spent much time driving 90 to 100 mph. The Germans have done a great job on their diesel engines. I hope Mercedes imports the E270 CDI here.

magnetophone · June 2002

rayberg, according to AutoNews, they are importing the E270 CDI to America in 2003 or 2004, with the next generation E-class.

And, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Mondeo is quite an impressive car!

mbec · June 2002

Have approx. 26k miles on my E320 with normal driving. The pads / rotors need
replacing. Is this normal? I would expect pad / rotor life to longer on a $50k car.
I know MB using a softer pad but to me that is not a reason for the life to be short
versus most other cars and the owner having spend at extra $600 every 25k miles
to replace.

paulchiu · June 2002

Hi,

Read you are selling your 2000 S500 for the E500 sports at 73K with distronics.

I have the 2001 S500 with distronics and ABC. It drives very well. But remember, distronics, ABC, and parktronics are worthless at the time of resale to dealers. Only body kits like "sport packages" which make the exterior look different are worth anything. So bear this in mind.

As for the E500 sports, wouldn't your S500 be a quicker 0-60mph car? Have more room, and more quiet? (I know I am a little bore with my 2001 S500 now, but....)

At 73K, you might want to wait another year for the new E55; which will have sub 5 sec 0-60mph and sport body kits and a massive 460bhp.

Paul

wbreaux · June 2002

My brake pads had to be replaced at about the same mileage on my 2000 E320. I do a mixture of city / highway driving and was surprised at having to replace so soon.

jstyle · June 2002

A lot of you thought 73K price for the E500 was high. Well I am getting all available options except for the V60 phone and that price includes delivery and my states sales tax at 9 percent. So unless the dealer has the wrong price list I guess that price is right.

e2000 · June 2002

Does any one have any experience with after market brake pads/rotors.

onlyagirl · June 2002

Hello all....as my name implies I am only a girl and I need help from some of you...I have a 2000 E320(31k miles) ...for some time now....for well over a year I have noticed a rubbing noise around the front left tire...I mostly can hear it when I am pulling up to the carport...or turning into the drive....I notice it more now since I have the windows down more....the rubbing is somehow tied to either the tire or something else that is rotating as it is faster when I speed up and slower as I slow down.....it has been to 2 different MB service centers....once last May.....was told they couldn't hear it so it must have been a rock in the wheel well...supposedly they checked the entire braking system ...took it back in Jan to another center and was told it was the tire(but no explaination of WHAT the tire is rubbing on or WHY)...he did not say I needed to get new tires at that point but that soon I would ..it really bothers me because I can't believe it is nothing to be concerned about....I am calling my service advisor again either tomorrow or Monday...I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem and/or do any of you have any ideas or suggestions...
THanks......

sddlw · June 2002

Your mechanic should take a road test with you until he hears the noise too. It might be wheel bearings. They can make very funny noises when they first start to go.

sddlw · June 2002

It is common for the pads to have relatively short life due to the weight of the car and the soft pads, and of course your driving habbits.

It is a bit more unusal for the rotors to need replacing before 60-70k miles. Usually they only need resurfacing at the earlier intervals when the pads are replaced.

valueguy · June 2002

While M-B has been building cars for 100 plus years this fact does not change that quality has been DECREASING over the last few years.

Please think objectively about the issue. Lexus/Toyota has dominated the JD Power's initial quality awards the past few years. Consumer Reports consistently rates Lexus at the top of the reliability charts. Sadly, M-B did not win even one award for a vehicle this year or last. The manufacturer that has stood for quality has paid out huge sums of money for warranty repair work. M-B's quality is in serious need of improvement if the manufacturer is going to retain its reputation as "one of the best" in the world.

Objectively, Lexus is regarded as a more reliable brand. The GS and LS430 both won awards this year from JD Powers and associates. BMW received the top two awards in the European region.

I prefer to stick with the facts and leave emotion out of the picture when discussing reliability and quality. If one decides (and that includes me) to purchase a M-B product over the Lexus or BMW that is a personal decision.
Reliability is just one factor among many which helps the buyer to decide which car to purchase.
But, for some it is the most important one.

I chose the E430 for its styling, luxury and handling characteristics. But, I knew it was fairly reliable as well. At the time I thought BMW was no match for M-B in terms of quality and long term reliability. I am not so sure of that anymore. The Lexus GS400 was and still is too weird (ugly?) for me.

As I stated earlier, M-B needs to wake up and start building the best cars in the world again.
Customer loyalty matters a great deal in the market place. A satisfied owner will buy another M-B product. After all, a new loaded E500 will cost in excess of $65,000. For that amount of money the car should be the best in its class.

jean7of9 · June 2002

I enjoyed today my first extended test drive of a 02 BMW 330xi. I am considering the 03 model as a second car. The car is fun to drive but I was surprised with the noise level and stiffness of this new BMW 3.0l engine at 2500+RPM. Compared to my E320 3.2l that engine should be faster and peppyier in a smaller car but it is not. It is obvious that maxi torque comes at higher RPM. Since you are driving this same engine for a while can you please advise whether it will get smoother and a bit less noisy after 15k miles, like MB's. Honestly, after this drive I re discovered my E-Class. I don't even dare posting this one on the 3 series board, it will be lost between skirmishes.
By the way our town is hosting the F1 Grand Prix this week-end. Most golf courses are running a special, any taker?
Jean

paulchiu · June 2002

After 2 years with my 2001 S500 and 1 year with a ML430 before that, I have come to the conclusion that MB has been cutting corners to put out technologically advance cars with the best performance and styling, at the expense of that "final touch". What I mean is that while the ML430 and S500 were the fastest, and arguably the best perfoming vehicles in their class, they suffered with annoying vehicle noise, cheap looking materials, and customer service.

It was after 13 months, that the wood panels surrounding my COMAND screen began to make creaking sounds, which the service department can do nothing about. Same with the ML430 with door noise.

Sure, the Lexus LS430 is much more quiet and has better looking materials, but the exterior is bland. The S500 drives a lot more athletically than a LS430. Same can be said comparing a ML430 with the RX300, but especially the 470.

It is really a survival move by Mercedes to cut cost and price their line against the likes of Lexus and BMW. If they were to make the quality of the line as they were, say pre 1999, the cost of the S500 might be over $100K base. At nearly twice the cost of one LS430, Mercedes might be asking too much. Perhaps this is not the reason for the poor QA, but it certainly makes good business sense.

benznut · June 2002

I agree with you in that these has been a quality slump. No doubt about it.
However, there is no doubt about it that the Mb has received the lesson and they have already started adressing the issue. They have too much at stake here to risk everything only to save a few bucks. The newest models show this: while I have had no chance yet to see the new E, I have driven the new SL500 on several occasions, one of them for almost two weeks (my family's in Europe), and it feels just as solid throughout the cabin as the old one (again, two examples in my family). The facelifted S will further accentuate the turn.
Sorry, but when talking about MB I cannot leave my emotions aside, as the car is a pure unadulterated source for them. This is what differentiates MB (or BMW) from Lexus or Infiniti. I hope no one takes offence in this last sentence. Just how I feel. I wuold not want to start a feud like in some other instances at MB boards.

rab5 · June 2002

I have 46,000 miles on my 1999 E320. No need so far for brake pad replacement. Great running car. I got 30.7 mpg on recent 3000 mile trip. Four passengers with luggage, and I had to use air conditioner frequently, too.

benzrules · June 2002

Have a 2000 E430 with about 31K miles and had to change the pads around 24K miles. It didn't seem like very long to me considering some other "high end" cars I've owned that it was at least double this amount of time before I had to change pads. Sub par service at one dealer where I was informed that pads and rotors had to be changed - took it back to where I bought the car and was informed that rotors were fine, just needed new pads. Only issue I've had with the car to date, so knock on wood.

valueguy · June 2002

Thanks for the replies. I am more optimistic about the new E after reading your posts. Perhaps, I can have my cake and eat it too.
An AMG E55 with M like power and handling plus the reliability of a LS430. That sure would be nice.

valueguy · June 2002

Jean,

At first I was disappointed with my 6 cylinder BMW 330. The engine seemed to lack the refinement of M-B's motor. The power occured at the high end of the RPM and the engine seemed a bit noisy.

But, over time I have come to appreciate the smoothness of BMW's inline 6. This engine grows on you and full appreciation takes some time.
If you want spirited performance and best in class handling buy the BMW. If you prefer quietness and a pure sense of luxury this car is not for you.
IMHO, the BMW 330 would make a nice addition to your E320.
Jean, test drive the Lexus IS as well.

valueguy · June 2002

The 6 cylinder V-W Passat is a great value. It offers an Audi like experience for a lot less money. Jean, if you want 4 wheel drive consider this vehicle and test drive it as well. IMHO, the 6 cylinder version offers the best value for the money. But, for fun-to-drive factor and handling the BMW is still the class leader.

jean7of9 · June 2002

Thanks for your reply. After my experience with all weather MB 4matic I decided that any future car must be AWD. To narrow down my choice I did an elaborate spread sheet comparing performance, comfort, electronics and handling between 330xi, Jaguar x type, A4 3.0l, A6 2.7t, ES-300 and 02 E320 (for point of reference only). On paper the 330xi with PP+SP beats all by far (money not a problem). BMW alone provides a maxi performance/Luxury package for this size. Passat is very good but lacks some luxury refinements included with the others such as seat memory... Your assessment of the BMW 6L is identical to mine, hence I am still considering to order a 03 330xi (with everything) whenever the dealer gets 03 prices. Then in 04 I will replace my 320 with the E-500 4matic. Will keep you posted.
Jean

boo20 · June 2002

When is the 500 4 matic going to be available? MB does not list this as an option for 2003.

microrepair · June 2002

When I purchased my 96 E320 with 38K miles (with Starmark), the dealer replaced the pads in all four wheels and either turned or replaced the rotors, I'm not sure which. When it had about 77K miles I had to replace the front pads. The rotors looked fine. Again when it got to 97K miles (2 weeks ago), I had to replace the front pads and rotors. The rear pads still look OK. The repair at 97K surprised me; that was a VERY short interval from the previous pad replacement.

I did all the above work myself. Replacing the pads is a piece of cake and there is no reason to pay a dealer hundreds of dollars to do that. Replacing the rotors is a little more work. I also have found a terrific source for parts via the internet. It is http://sasponline.com ; also known as Smitty's Auto Service & Parts. I've ordered twice from them in the last couple of months. Their prices are truly discounted, they sell the OEM parts, and their delivery is fast. For example; the front pads made by ATE list at $74.00. They sell them for $37.66... The rotors are also less than half price. The shipping charge for the two rotors and the set of pads was only $12.75.. The total weight was 37 pounds!! Not a bad deal.. And I had all the parts within 4 days.

When I did the pads two years ago, I bought them from a local dealer in eastern Mass. who claims to be a discounted source. It cost me over $60 for the pads alone.

wniel · June 2002

I have a 2000 E430 with 15K miles on it and just replaced the front pads. I had the work done by a friend and an independent MBZ garage owner. I was surprised about replacing the pads at such an early interval and he told me that it is normal on the E430 to replace pads between 10-15K miles. Nearly all of the miles have been in town as this is the car that my wife drives as a daily driver, so the brakes get a little more use. Also with regard to rotors, MBZ never recommends turning them unless they have become warped, which can be identified when the brake pedal pulsates a bit when applying the brakes.
Wally

valueguy · June 2002

I have 17,000 miles on my '00E430 most of which are in-town miles. How will I know when I need new brake pads? During my next tire rotation at 20,000 miles I will have the pads inspected for wear. Should I have the pads inspected before then? Is the tire rotation at 20,000 miles included with the free maintenance service? All input is appreciated. Thanks.

adlwinnie · June 2002

I just took over the remaining 6 months on a E320 lease with 9k miles. The end of lease purchase option is $35k. I have noticed an issue regarding the audio system: The radio/CD volume increases/decreases as the car accelerates/decelerates. I'm new to this - has anyone experienced a similar problem? Is this supposed to happen? Can it be fixed?

joeadp · June 2002

This is normal for the radio.

Good luck with the car.

w210 · June 2002

can be turned off by dealer.

wniel · June 2002

As has already been said, this is normal to have the radio increase in volume when the speed increases. The purpose of this is to compensate for the related noise from increase speed.

Brake Pad Replacement:
You will know you need new pads when the warning is displayed on the dash as the brake sensors in the pads will be triggered when they make contact with the rotors. When you have the tires rotated, one can look in and see what the percentage of the pad is left. Until then, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are about to take a long trip. Also, I do not believe the rotation of the tires is part of the free service that Mercedes offers. I wish it were. Just my opinion.
Wally

valueguy · June 2002

Thanks for the response. Did you wait for the brake light to come on before replacing the pads?
Perhaps, an early pad replacement can save me some money on the rotors?

Anyone know how long the pads on the E55 last?
Just curious as I want at least 325Hp in my next car. Those SUV's are getting some big engines of late and I enjoy my power advantage.

valueguy · June 2002

My radio unit is reading "no magazine" or magazine empty and therefore, I am unable to play CD's. I will stop by the dealer tomorrow. I think my CD magazine may be defective. I have already had 3 radios and this is my second CD player. Oh well, the car drives fantastic and I enjoy the vault like nature of the interior.

wniel · June 2002

I waited for the light to come on before I replaced the pads. I didn't plan it that way as I assumed that I would have gotten a lot more mileage out of them, but no luck. All of a sudden there it was telling me that I needed brake service.
I had the same problem with my CD player and also the integrated phone wouldn't work. I don't remember what they replaced, but they replaced some power unit and haven't had any more problems. I did have the CD player replaced for another reason as it was skipping.
Hope this helps.
Wally

afmbguy · June 2002

Does anybody know there would be any MB PowerTrip this year in New York and New Jersey area ? If so, how to sign up.
Thanks.

porknbeans · June 2002

How about in the midwest? (Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison, WI area)

r1_97 · June 2002

I've heard there are significant changes from '02. When will car be available in So. CA?

My '98 E-320 is approaching 40K miles so I'm thinking about trading for an '03. My minor complaint about the 98 is too low geared and too much road noise. Otherwise it's a great car.

pupster · June 2002

On several occasions, the multifunction display on my 1999 e320 has shown the above message without any further explanation. Has anyone experienced this message and what does it mean? Thanks for any advice you can give me.

wniel · June 2002

("My minor complaint about the 98 is too low geared and too much road noise.")
That is the first time that I ever heard that complaint about an E320. Help me, what causes you to believe that it's too low geared? As for the road noise, that's generally caused by the type of tire that you are running. I have the Goodyear Eagle F1's on my E430 and they are very noisy. Am looking forward to them wearing down so that I can replace them. What kind of tires do you have on the car? I have several friends that have the E320 and they aren't noisy and the're certainly not low geared in my and their opinion. More than likely the 03's will have the same gearing as they will have the same engines, at least to start with.
Wally

bargamon · June 2002

My 01' e430 now has 22k on it. Replaced goodyear f1's with yoko avs db's and love it. A much quieter tire. MPG in suberban use is 21mpg. I get 26 on highway cruising at 75-79mph.

Brakes still original, no light yet.

I recently applied zaino. New accelerater to harden wax makes application easier. Shines like nothing I ever used before and dirt does some funny things, like falls off!

I love this car! Have had no mechnical issues.

Radio volume is variable. I find it can lower it too much depending on the CD being played. I might consider turning this feature off. I reupped on the teleaid, but never use it. BUt not using it is a good thing!

Without reservation I recommend the 99' or newer models based on mine and friends experience. This is not to "diss" any other model year, just based on personal experience and my feeling that the newer motors once a year in the field is a great choice.

valueguy · June 2002

I am still using the Zymol wax- one application every six months and my car looks great. But, I have added the new "detail" spray to my car care regimen and this product is fantastic.

For those of you not using Zaino I recommend this new product. Every major wax manufacturer is now selling this stuff. You spray it on while the car is still wet and then towel dry the car. The car looks fantastic when you are finished.

IMHO, zaino is a better product for dark colored cars and paints that tend to have swirl marks after towel drying. But, my silver E looks great with Consumer Reports number one rated product:
Zymol. Zymol is cheap and available everywhere like Wal-Mart and auto part stores. The detail spray keeps your paint smooth and glossy between Zymol applications. If I had a Black E I would opt for the Zaino.

valueguy · June 2002

How does 18" wheels affect the ride of the E430 compared to the 17" Sport wheels? I am curious how 18" wheels affect the comfort level of everyday driving. I am sure handling is improved but at what price?

I have never used the W mode in my E. Is there any condition in Florida that would merit using this mode over the S (summer) mode? How about a 3" down pour which is common here every summer afternoon?

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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