Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

pcasino · June 2002

17" versus 18"

The primary advantage of using 18" wheels over 17" wheels is the handling difference, which in my opinion, can only be felt in a race track or in an extremely smooth highway with quick turns that require precision handling - like race cars that go over 200 mph. With less rubber between your rims and the pavement, the car will be more responsive and stable during turns. However, that handling comes at a price. The ride is harsher, and the rims prone to dents. On city streets the 18" wheels becomes a detriment since the minimal rubber between the rims and the street will not protect your rims from potholes and pavement cracks. I have known 17" inch wheels to get dented in New York city potholes. Furthermore, tires for 18" rims on sedans have limited weight bearing capacity and are not always all weather. Unless, you are bill gates nephew, or if you use your E class in a race track every day, I cannot find any logical reason why anyone in this world would want to replace 17" wheels for 18" in his E class. Oh, I almost forgot the last reason - the "look at the 18 rims on my E Class!!" reason.

W and S mode,

Read your manual! The only difference between the W and the S mode is starting the car from second gear (in W) instead of first gear (in S). This is for use only when you are starting from deep snow, since you don't want your rear wheels to spin from too much torque in first gear. Starting in second gear will avoid this. When was the last time there was a snow blizzard in Florida and why would you want to start your car in second gear when it rains?

Yours truly,

President of the read your car manual club.

valueguy · June 2002

Why respond in such a rude manner. I have read my manual several times. Sometimes input from other drivers on this board is of great value to me. I have never used the "W" mode in my vehicle nor do I intend to do so. In the future, even stupid questions (of which I do not include mine)
do not need to be answered in such a manner. IMHO, simply ignoring the question is much better approach.

As to the 18" tires and wheels question, the stock E-55 comes with them as standard equipment.
Since my next vehicle will most likely be the new E-55 with 18" wheels I wanted to read some comments about them. My 17" wheels have no dents or dings and my roads are in good condition.
Perhaps, someone else on this board with an E-55 would respond to my question. Thanks.

rickyfanmdr · June 2002

Dealers are already taking deposits on the redesigned 2003 E-Class Mercedes! I have my reservation in on one already. They've told me that the car has just started production, and deliveries will start in August with about a two month backlog of reservations already in the pipeline.

This website has the best photos:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Wheels24/Archive/0,3999,2-15-890_1131559,00.html

There is a lot of information already available on the web, plus mbusa.com has info up now on this car.

I think it's gorgeous! Can't wait to get mine!

jfz219 · June 2002

The winter transmission mode is useful in other low traction situations besides the obvious snow conditions. I find the traction control to be intrusive in tight turns from a standstill in wet weather. W mode modulates the torque be starting in second gear. So I use it almost all the time in town in rainy weather.

Another wet weather observation not found in the owners manual: My E320 with MXV4 tires is much more stable in strong cross winds at highway speeds with the tire pressure increased to 31 psi front and 34 psi rear. Ride quality is minimally harsher and alloys are better protected.

adlwinnie · June 2002

Thanks for the responses. Some have said the radio/CD volume increase/decrease feature can be turned off - is this something only the dealer can do?

Any thoughts on the end of lease purchase price - $35k? The car will have about 14k miles. Any experience as to whether Mercedes Credit negotiates the purchase price at lease end? Any thoughts are appreciated.

r1_97 · June 2002

I have a 98 and an 01 e-320s. I don't know the technical ratios but it seems that the 98 winds up from a start at too high rpm and that the 01 seems to accellerate better. Also the suspension seems smoother on the 01. Have there been any changes?

I have Michelin tires on both cars. At 60+ mph the noise is noticable over the stereo. Noisier than on my prior Lexus ES300.

I previously said, these are minor bitches. I plan top trade in my 98 for an '03 when the new model comes out sometime after August.

I like the size and compromise of driving control (handeling) and comfort in the E model. I hope MB tightens up on quality control. I had to replace the transmission on the '98 model right at the end of the 4 year warranty period. I bought an 8 year extended warranty (4+4) for the '01.

jnee · June 2002

Hello my fellow MB owners:) I'm enjoying everyone's posts and find them very helpful as I get to know my 2001E3204matic better. Thank You. I have about 6K on mine and I already have a problem, with the ac(among a few other minor electrical problems). My ac whistles, rattles and although I have the fan on high I have no fan speed. And the fan speed will fluctuate from high to low to high whenever it feels like it. Anyone else experience the same problem? SPLITOE: I read your post about your ac fan control unit problem. Could you tell me a little more about that? By the way, the ac is on manual. Not auto.

jean7of9 · June 2002

I live in the snow belt and have done various testing between W/S. In my E320 4matic it does not actually make much difference in snow and ice because TRC takes over. However I noticed during "city driving" the car starts smoother under W, hence when I have company I always set it to W. When I am driving alone and looking for jump starting on green I set it to S.
Jean

jean7of9 · June 2002

The variations in fan speed can be caused by a faulty sensor. The dealer can trace it in minutes. You also need to check the rattle asap before it gets worse.
Jean

w210 · June 2002

Yes, only the dealer can turn the feature off.

yhchu · June 2002

I went to dealer today looking for a 2002 E320. They offered me $1800 under invoice. Is that a good price for a 2002 when 2003 models are coming?

r1_97 · June 2002

I think -$1,800 from invoice is very good IF it's a net figure. IOW, No add on gimmicks.

bmms8 · June 2002

i think if u have to pay an extra 4 grand ad just get the 2003. 1800 is A VER GOOD DEAL but 2002 e-classes will look very old in 2 years. Also, the 2003 looks awesome, and there are more features, and more standard equipment on he e-class.....in my opinion u should wait. That is why i didnt buy a 2002 e-class... im waitng forthe 2003 e500. i put inmyorder a couple of months ago...i got an e500 with obsidian black, stone leather, keyless go, e2, power sun shade, and parktronic. i hoipe this car will be great.

mbdriver · June 2002

Valueguy -- My 2000 E320 is also silver, and I've been using Zaino since it was new. IMHO, nothing matches either the wet-look shine or durability of Zaino, regardless of car color. And Z-6 enhances the shine dramatically, even on my silver car.

If you haven't tried Zaino on your silver E-Class, do yourself a favor and try comparing it with Zymol. I think you'll be amazed!

Edsoto · June 2002

The new cars will probably not be marked down at all. Also, are you looking for an E320 or 430?

As for looking very old in two years... Is the gullwing that old looking? Ugh.

Just be happy with your car - and don't worry too much about what is a good price or not. Since, for the most part, no two people ever paid the same exact amount for a car.

Good Luck,

Ed

wniel · June 2002

(Also the suspension seems smoother on the 01. Have there been any changes?)
There very well may have been some suspension fine tuning, as in 2000 MB made quite a few changes to the E. Most of them were cosmetic. however, I'm sure some mechanical changes were made also as they tend to make subtle changes every year. Depending what tread pattern you have on the Michelin's, they can be noisy also, but not as noisy as the Goodyear Eagle F1's. By chance did you change the wheels to 17" from 16", as that can make the suspension feel different?
Wally

bigrobnh · June 2002

I, too, own a 2001 E320 4Matic. Your's must have followed mine down the assemlbly line. I too had the failure with the climate control system. Both Auto and Manual hardly worked (they made the point of telling me that, in auto mode, it's supposed to change speeds like I was some moron or something). One poster said it was a simple thing for them to fix. Well, it took two visits for mine...with them returning it the first time unfixed (with the problem apparent...they didn't make an effort to find it). I hope your service department is better than the one I visit in NH.

I believe they changed a fan speed regulator and possibly temperature sensors.

adlwinnie · June 2002

Any thoughts on whether a purchase option for $35k at lease end with approximately 13,000 miles is a good deal? Anyone have any experience negotiating with Mercedes Credit? Thanks.

cmayer · June 2002

If you're talking about your car, then you know the shape it's in.

If the condition matches the very low mileage, it sounds attractive to me. But I'm not familiar with market specifics.

rbrenton88 · June 2002

I keep hearing the siren song of the Zaino, but would it be noticeable on a white finish, and do you still have to do all that claying and numerous other steps?

My pool little arms get tired after one coat of Meguire's as it is.

I don't want to ask this in the Zaino topic because some of those posters are a little too fanatic about it.

mbdriver · June 2002

If the paint on your white car is reasonably clean, I'd definitely recommend Zaino for two reasons: (1) It really protects well and lasts longer than any product I've ever used (since Simonize was the norm -- I'm showing my age!), and (2) It's very easy to use and requires no rubbing, polishing or buffing (wipe on, let dry, wipe off). Also, Zaino does not leave a powdery residue like many other products.

If your paint doesn't feel smooth when you run your fingers over it (when the car is clean), you may want to use a clay bar. I've never used one, but I've used Zaino on my silver E320 since it was new -- I probably have 15 coats by now. But I understand that claying is a breeze and can be done in about 15 minutes -- IF it's needed.

Recommend that you wash the car thoroughly with blue Dawn dishwasher detergent, dry, apply Z-1 and allow to haze (the Z-1 when applied, and later the haze, will both be very difficult to see on a white car), then apply Z-2, let dry completely, and merely wipe off. Don't apply more than one coat of Z-2 in a 24 hour period unless you use ZFX instead of Z-1. Follow with Z-6 (optional). After several coats of Z-2, you'll be amazed at the deep wet-look shine, even on a white car! You'll also be amazed at how long water keeps beading, especially if you renew the Z-2 every so often (after a thorough wash with Z-7).

Biggest mistakes using Zaino: Using too much, especially on light colored cars (a little bit goes a looooong way!) and not allowing the Z-2 to dry completely.

Hope this helps. The Zaino web site (www.zainobros.com) is worth reading thoroughly, especially the "tips."

rbrenton88 · June 2002

Thanks for the tips. I'll look into it.

lhcleung · June 2002

mbdriver: your information on ZainoBros paint is very useful; because I too, am looking for good paint to protect my 2001 E320. The paint job on this car is still like new; but I like to have some paint to protect it from our severe Canadian winter climate. So, would you please tell me: 1)whether you used the Zaino paint when your Benz was still new and 2) would the Zaino products do any damage to the Mercedes Benz original paint job? Thanking you in advance for sharing your information and experience.
Louis

jean7of9 · June 2002

I have been using Zaino for more than three years under the same harsh weather. my neighbor who parks a 03 SL-500 and 02 S-55 (same obsidian black)near my car is surprised with the fact that my car still looks as new as his cars but with a wetter look. You can order Zaino in Canada with Canadian dollars for next day delivery by Purolator.
Jean

lhcleung · June 2002

Jean: Thanks a lot. Now I feel confident to go ahead to order such product, eventhough I have already bought the whole complete polishing and detailing kit from Mercedes Benz. Thanks again.
Louis

thor8 · June 2002

I am considering a 2002 E 320, can a few owners give me some imput in regards to quality and reliability, an impartial and objective view.

Thanks,

r1_97 · June 2002

The E-320 is about to get a substantial update in late August. The current model is an excellent car but the model is a bit old. I have two - a '98 and an '01. Had to replace the transmission on the '98 (under warranty) but no other major problems. I'm considering replacing the '98 with a new '03 later this year.

mbdriver · June 2002

jean7of9 is absolutely correct. And if you haven't opened or used your MB polishing and detailing kit, RUSH back to your dealer and get your hard-earned money back. The products are probably Meguires polishes and carnaubas with a tri-star label.

IMHO, Zaino will do more to protect your E-Class's paint than anything on the market. My brilliant silver 2000 E320 looks better than new, and it's seen nothing but Zaino since I removed the dealer's prep wax just after I took delivery.

mbdriver · June 2002

rl_97 makes some good points and has the experience to back them up.

I would add several cautions about NOT buying the 2002 E-Class. First, the 2002 is now a proven product that underwent a major face lift with the 2000 model. Most likely all the "bugs" and problems have been eliminated or minimized by now.

Second, many people avoid the first model year of any new car. Often there are problems that the manufacturer will fix in the second and subsequent years of the model's life. So, you may want to wait a year and then buy an '04 model E-Class (if you don't opt to go for the 2002 model).

Finally, from the photos I've seen, the new '03 E-Class strongly resembles the previous 210 generation. However, the new car also has many improvements.

It will be a tough decision either way. But with MB's increased emphasis on quality, you won't go wrong either way.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you do and how satisfied you are with your decision.

valueguy · June 2002

I agree that Zaino is SLIGHTLY better than Zymol.
But, for me the cost and labor of the Zaino is not worth the difference.

Please check out this site
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html

This NSX owner did his own testing of the two products and Zymol did very well. Yes, the Zaino is better but not by much. If I had a dark colored car I would spend the extra time and money
on the Zaino. Zymol is cheap, easy to apply and readily available at Wal-Mart. As the test shows, it is a good product. M-B recommends a Carnauba based wax on their paints: Zymol is Carnauba based.

So, those of you who want a good alternative to Zaino should seriously consider Zymol. Zaino is not available at stores but can be purchased easily online.

valueguy · June 2002

I had a new CD player installed yesterday under warranty. My '00 E40 has had 3 radio's and 3 CD players so far. Too bad M-B does not allow Toyota to manufacture their electronics.

The service manager said new brake pads are usually needed every 20,000 miles or so. The rotors should last 40-50,000 miles and he recommended new rotors be used. What is the usual cost for new front brake pads at the dealer?

mbdriver · June 2002

About a week ago on my 2000 E320, my climate control system started acting up. First, the fan would not come on for a time, then all would be normal. Starting yesterday, the fan comes on, quits, starts again, changes speed, quits and repeats, all with no input from me. I also have no control over it using temperature or fan speed changes or going back to auto. All the visual indications appear to be normal and the compressor is normal.

Can anyone with similar experiences help? I'm going to call my dealer on Monday.

lhcleung · June 2002

mbdriver: Thanks for the info on Zaino products. Yes, I am going to returning all the waxing kit I've got from Mercedes Benz. I will order some Zaino products rightaway. But could you please comment the procedure I intend to follow for applying the Zaino:
1)clean the car with dish washing detergent;
2)applying Z-1;
3)applying Z-2 and
4)wait for the waxing completely dry and remove with 100% cotton towel.
Is that the right procedure? Your comments and advice would be appreciated.
Louis

mbdriver · June 2002

You got it right! Also, suggest you call or send an e-mail to Sal Zaino and ask if he has a Zaino distributor in your area. You'll get superb service if there is.

keyrow · June 2002

I own a detailing business so please allow me to throw in my opinion. First, the real Zymol IS NOT cheap! Their quality products start at around $60.00 for 8 ounces. The stuff you find at WalMart is an imitation made by Turtle wax. Just look at the back label, if it says "Made in Chicago" it is Turtle Wax (which has purchased the rights to make a product using the Zymol name). "Zurtle" wax is indeed cheap, both from a monetary and quality standpoint.

I use Zaino on my own cars as well as offering it to my customers AND I provide a 3 month warrantee with it. I will re wax the entire car if the shine or protective functions fail within that time. I know there will be no claims because I redo my own Lincoln every 4 months with no adverse effects! I have total confidence in Zaino's products.

The primary difference between Zaino and Zymol is that Zaino is a synthetic wax, that is, it is man made. As such the qualities the "Designer" wants is made molecule by molecule. This is why it lasts so long and produces such an intense shine. Zymol is a "natural" carnauba wax. It produces a much "warmer" or subtler (if that is a real word) shine. It will also melt/evaporate if exposed to direct sunlight for any extended period of time. At best I would never go longer than 3-4 weeks without re waxing with Zymol. The choice of which is "better" is an individual one.

Please feel free to email me directly if anyone has any detailing questions. I have provided my personal email address in my profile so as not to confuse your questions with my business. Thanks for allowing a "lowly" Lincoln LS owner to post here (I am looking at the '03 E class to replace my wife's Infiniti).

jstyle · June 2002

A CLK killer or a sportier alternative to the E-Class even though it will be close to $62,000US? It is a go for production. Look at the list of couple models in the article. There are four publications reporting this. Any comments?

http://mbspy.bacosys.be/c219.htm

splitoe · June 2002

I had similar problem with air conditioner fan, which changed speed from time to time although the speed setting was manual. I took it to the dealership and the mechanics said it was normal. Upon my insist, the service adviser asked the service foreman, who took a quick look and immediately pointed out the fan regulator needed replacement. It has been working properly since

splitoe · June 2002

I also had whitles from fan and the speed flutuated, but no rattles though. The mechnics claimed it was normal but the foreman pointed out the culprit - fan regulator control unit.

Now I have new problems, the center vents sometimes stay shut and will work normal again in a few minutes. Took the car to the dealership, but they couldn't service it if the vents work properly at that time. Have to go there more ofter, I guess.

E320 is a great and balanced car, I really enjoy driving it. Just wish it were as reliable as my Toyotas.

splitoe · June 2002

I got my 2001 E320 in May 2001 at a price of $2000 below invoice (a hard bargain and a lot of homework). No dealer installed options. I live in Southern California, and I read one ad recently for $10000 below MSRP (don't know the detail though).

Since I have so many problems with my E320, I would avoid a 2003 E320. Buy it now or wait a little bit for 2004 model.

bmms8 · June 2002

i also live in so cal, the dealers nearest to me is mb san diego, and escondido, i have a deposit on a e500, but i want a good deal, if anyone would offer one

splitoe · June 2002

I bought from Flether Jone in Newport Beach. The ad I saw was for a dealership in north LA. Do your home work first (I prescribe 3 car magzines)
and know everything about the car and try your luck. Sometime it is all timing.

ewoq · June 2002

A short review of the new E class:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk2/03e-class.htm

rbrenton88 · June 2002

Firstly, I want to chip in my thanks to Keyrow for his pro opinion on Zaino/Zymol. I had no idea there was fake version of it. I think you may have tipped me toward trying the Zaino, although that part about the Dawn wash gives me pause for some reason.
I wish I had a pro detailer in the family. I used to do a bit of it on the side for extra cash, and it was brutal work for what I was charging.

Valueguy: in case you haven't gotten any more brake job pricing info...my dealer quoted about $550 for the front pads, rotors, and labor.
I had my local mechanic do the same job for about half that using genuine dealer parts (though it took half the day just to get the parts delivered). The parts themselves are rather pricey themselves, but I'm hesitant to use aftermarket stuff.

shortillkj · June 2002

The worldwide website of MB now has an interactive demo. Very interesting. At least the Germans have an in-dash CD player, as well as the option of an in-dash CD changer!

http://www.mercedes-benz.de/mbd/html/interak_betriebsanl/e_klasse/betriebsanleitung_start.html

96e320 · June 2002

The first fault code said the Air Mass Meter was bad so I replaced it. On the way home from the shop the light came on again. This time the scanner showed No Faults, but the tech still replaced the Air Mass Meter thinking maybe it was bad to begin with. A couple weeks go by and now the light is back on. Havn't taken it back yet. Gas cap is on tight. Car seems to run fine. I remember seeing an earlier post concerning this pesky light, but do not recall the number. Any help would be appreciated.

mynextcar · June 2002

I am in the market for my next car and narrowed down to the two. Has anyone compared 530 with 320? If you have, can you share your thought? What was the factor for going with 320? Thanks in advance!

jean7of9 · June 2002

For your info, When I logged to this page yesterday and today it was in italic and could not identify my ID and password. To get it right I had to log on through the back door i.e. The Owners Club. It is me only or someone inoculated this page with a schizophrenic bug =:)
Jean

bg1981 · June 2002

I am in Germany for a couple of months where the new E -Class, and CLK as well, is out and about (some already in service as taxi cabs!). A little different than what will come to America (Smaller and more diesel powered variants). I have got the chance to take a look at them up close. As a BMW driver I must say that I am very impressed. The new design seems very elegant and the interior is a definate upgrade from current models. Although I do like the new instrument cluster, I do not like the idea of putting a clock in to replace the tach. I guess sporty was not what MB was emphasizing. Just thought I would chime in with my two cents.

r1_97 · June 2002

For "my next car" (#3497). I bought the E320 because it has more room inside and better storage areas. Both are great cars. The BMW handles a little better -but not much.

The E model will undergo a change in the '03 model comming to the US in a few months. You might want to hold off and make another comparative test until then.

pat · June 2002

That's very strange. I have heard no other reports of that.

Yesterday there was a change of servers (I think it was yesterday?) Maybe somehow you got caught up in that and it won't happen again.

However, if it does happen again (or any other strange event), go to the Help link at the top of this page and find the Feedback form link to report it.

Glad you found your way in, anyway!

Pat
Sedans Host

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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