Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

mbnut1 · October 2002

Any comparisons between the three cars you've owned (particularly the 98 E and the C320) would be greatly appreciated

jim256 · October 2002

Purely my "survey of 1" observations:
98 E320: well assembled, but it did not have the solid bank vault feel I remembered from my last MB ('83 240D) many cars prior. It had more of a Volvo-like solidness and road feel as in my '89 Volvo 740. The new V6 had impressive acceleration and feel. Handling was great at higher speeds but characteristically looser at low speeds, my normal driving. Almost no repairs in 3 years/28k miles--fuel level sender and main seal, both handled quickly. Great resale value.

'01 C320: better low speed handling, good turn-in feel, very tossable compared to my '98 E. Several electronic glitches: keys, both front turn signals. The keys took a week to resolve, with a new module in the dash. (It was a very, very early production model, ordered for me and the first the dealer got in--I expect some glitches as a result, and I'm usually an early buyer of new models.) Build quality was good, felt more solid than the '98 E, but although I am just 6'0" and not overweight, the roominess, particularly what I call "wing room" extending the elbows, was limited. 2 years, 19k miles. Fair resale value because the '03 costs the same as the '01 MSRP.

'03 E320: This is what I was after, I think, after 3 weeks of use. The roominess is there, handling is as good or better than the C at all speeds, build quality is outstanding with no noticed assembly issues, and the door has the old bank vault sound. The power application is less linear than the other 2 cars, but I believe it is because the accelerator has more logic in its software to adapt to driver preferences, and since I'm still in break-in I have been driving conservatively. I expect it will change. The electronic brakes have a few traits but nothing that is intrusive or diminishes confidence in them. Again, conservative driving so far. (At the MB "On Track" day in Richmond, a similar E320 was very responsive so I expect it will adapt.) Every feature the C had seems better executed here, including all the display screen options. The quietness is remarkable. This has Michelin tires, the 2 prior had Goodyears and I would recommend you get the dealer to swap out any Goodyears if they still use them. I have not seen any on the lot on the '03's but both were noisy after 5k miles and gave poor wear.

prabinek · October 2002

I just picked up my new 320 E. The car has a huge cargo space but no
cargo net. All the attachments are installed in the trunk but NO net.
My dealer war suprised when I called. Apparently the 2002 models
came with the net. I know its not a big deal but when the car comes in at over $ 82000 .00 one would think that Mercedes would not be so cheap

jgravel · October 2002

Peter, how did you get up to $82K on a 320E. Did it come with a driver?

-Jay

robr2 · October 2002

82,000 Canadian Pesos I'll bet!!

jgravel · October 2002

Duh....you must be right. I'll be quiet again.

rayscar · October 2002

Hi et610. I would have replied sooner but I have not been online for a few days. My car has been assigned a ship and may already be on the water but it now looks like I won't get it until the first week of November.

I still intend to get the invisible bra. You can see the edge of the clear plastic on the car if you are close up but that's better than chips in the paint. It is also supposed to protect the expensive headlight lens from pretty good size rocks too.

mbnut1 · October 2002

Thanks for your perfect "survey of one". You hit the point I was looking for ie the soldiness issue particularly between the 98 E and 01 C (I can't afford an '03 E). Your assessment of this echoed my perceptions. Thanks again for your time and trouble.

prabinek · October 2002

Base price was $69,950(Canadian)
Parktronic $1500
Panoramna Roof $1850
Solar Panel $1120
Multi-Contour L $640
Multi-Contour R $640
Rear Sunshade $720
Bi-Xenon Headlamps $1425
Harman Kardon $1150
Climate Confort F $1780
Freight,PDI $1335

carnaught · October 2002

....the "invisible bra" from what I understand is that the paint color underneath with time changes color from the rest of the car. Good concept though....

linard · October 2002

Carnaught, I've seen two used 99 ML's with the bra, one was white and the other silver and they both looked fine. The problem with both was that the edges were getting dirty so you could see the tape line pretty obviously but there weren't any stone chips. What I want to try are the clear headlight covers, does anyone know of a good brand?

carnaught · October 2002

...the clear headlight covers are probably the better idea...3m makes a good product I understand.

lhcleung · October 2002

Prabinek: I think you have forgotten the 15% taxes;with them included your $82k would go up to $94,427 Canadian dollars. Am I right? or did you get some special discount.

rowlandj · October 2002

Try Stongard at stongard.com. I have used it on all my vehicles after loosing a fog light to a rock on my C320, that was an expensive lesson.

Make sure that everything is pretty warm when you put the material on, it makes for a much more effective and simple installation.

John R.

prabinek · October 2002

You are right. There was a 15% tax on top of it.
Did not get one cent off. Since they don`t discount they have a better handle on the Mercedes
"market" They have almost total control over used (Mercedes) car prices, as a result they have the highest"residual" value (62% after 3 years)

mark156 · October 2002

I had my '00 E430 in for a burnt out fog light so I thought I would check out the new "E" in the showroom. WOW!, they are really nice. I like the re-freshened interior compared to mine. Also, no one has mentioned the "TWO" sun visors like the Lincolns have had for years. I always wondered why any high-line car company didn't incorporate those in. The "secret" compartment for the in dash CD is pretty nifty too! Mercedes has a winner on their hands.

M.

et610 · October 2002

Ray: It looks like my E500 will get here about the same time as yours. I haven't had confirmation that it is on the water yet but know it was built and had a serial number on Oct 14th.

Appreciate the comments on the Invisible bra. I have researched it as much as I can. There are two main suppliers Invica-shield and Stongard..both use the 3M material. I suppose the main difference is how the plastic is cut but mostly who actually applies it.

I checked with 3 MBZ dealers, a Lexus dealer and a Volvo dealer. They all said that they highly reccomend it. Only one of these actually installed it. The rest just referred customers to the local supplier. It did not sound like they made anything on the referral. That would make their opinion a little stronger.

If you put it on it can be taken off without damage to the paint. However you would be out the $200 to $600 for the shield.

Both do headlight protection as a stand alone and insurance is available for $15.00 that covers lights if ever damaged by road object. This would seem to be a no brainer even if the paint protection was not done.

Let me know if you have any more or different info.

Ed

rayscar · October 2002

Hi Ed, that is my understanding too although I did not know it could be removed. There are pros and cons to doing it but I'm inclined to get it because I know for a fact I will have stone chips as well as possibly a broken headlight lens, which are very expensive to replace so any potential problems with the film are minor in comparison IMHO. I will investigate a little further once I get my car and decide then.

BTW, if I can get an invisible bra for my wife it would be a no brainer!

et610 · October 2002

Ray:
I got confirmation that my car has been "on the water" for about 4 days. Not sure what that translates into for delivery. You will have a much faster water time in Virginia.
West Coast must come thru Panama Canal to LA and then, in my case, by truck to the Seattle area.

Not sure if the port shutdown backlog has any big effect on automobiles. At one time I understood that the big problem was containers and that cars were off loaded differently and in a different place.

My only hold back on the bra is the appearance factor. I have seen it on white and light colors but not a black E series. "They" tell me that the wax build up is more apparent in the light colors and can be easily cleaned. MBZ dealers say they have had little or no complaints with the product.

Hard decision, but I also think I will go with it because as you said I know I will have stone chips in my new metallic black paint if I do not do it. I have had many black cars and all have suffered the stone chip disaster.

glamourlife · October 2002

My husband just picked up an E500 Black on Black with E1, E2, CD, and DVD Nav(Coming in Spring). It is a nice advancement from the 96E we owned years ago. The build quality is superb. It is a true tank. The thunk that the doors emit when I close them keeps me grinning.

I am still getting used to the brakes. I have to "learn" the new way. I've been driving an SUV for past few years, so the performance and power are a welcome delight.

We received a great discount and top dollar for our trade. We have purchased several cars from this dealer, and friends and family have also done so. My husband drove all the way to DC because the Chicago dealers could not come close on price for the E or our trade. Anyone in the market for an MB, I highly recommend EuroMotorCars in DC.

I'm worried about stone chips in the Black paint too. I don't know about the invisible bra though. Any good waxes that I can get for my husband to perform his weekend duties?

rayscar · October 2002

Hi et610, you may not be effected too much by the dock strike/lockout. based on a post on another MB site I visit, this person is in CA and his car arrived during the lockout. He said it caused only about a 5-7 day delay even though the media said 6-8 months to get caught-up. So hopfully cars are not effected as much as other cargo. Good luck!

et610 · October 2002

Can't wait to hear that great "THUNK.." sound on my new Benz.

Sounds like our cars are much alike.
I ordered E500
Metallic Black/Black, E1,E2, Parktronic, CD, Heated Front Seats,
406 Multicontour Seats, Nav sys and the
promotion ($100) split/fold rear seats.

Hope your new E500 lives up to your expectations. Rayscar and I are waiting to hear that "thunk".

Ed

clark217 · October 2002

I also have been researching putting a bra on my 97 E-420. I just bought it used with 52000 mi and there are just a couple of stone chips on the paint and grille. One other site selling precut kits of 3Ms Scotchcal film is at Xpel.com. They warrant against damage to paint or headlights up to, I think, $1,000. They offer fairly detailed installation instructions on the website especially for hard to apply cars such as the E-class with its valleys between the fender and the hood. One drawback of the Expel kit for the W210 E-class body is that it does not cover the grille under the front fender. I checked into having one custom made and installed and found that the cost would be about $400. My preference for now is to just do the front headlamps. BTW, I also just found that AutoSuperMart.com sells the film in 1ft wide swathes (you order the length) for $9/sq ft. I may try to custom make my own lower grill cover.
LClark

et610 · October 2002

I don't think I would want to try to put the film on myself. I would prefer to have a professional do it and warrant the installation. That way if it doen't fit right or look right I can have them redo it.

BTW...Stongard in Seattle quotes about $529. for the full package installed.

mbe2003 · October 2002

Well, I made it beyond the break in period and have finally got to take my E 320 out and open it up on the highway. Like so many others have said, I LOVE THIS CAR! It has a great ride, handles well and is extremely quite. Last night I was driving down the highway at 85 mph and could still here my 3 month old daughter breathing in her sleep in the back seat (of course, I had to mute the awesome HK stereo)!

The biggest adjustment for me was getting used to the brakes. Since the system handles brake pressure for you as you slow down, you don't need to lift your foot off the pedal as you stop. Once you get used to it, they system is very nice. I have also had a couple occasions to stand on the brakes, and boy does the car respond.

I really appreciate all the wonderful information you folks post here. If you know of other good boards, please add a post with some links. Also, I am interested in the invisible bra discussion for my black E 320. It seems like a good thing to do but I too am worried about how it looks and what happens to the paint underneath vs. the exposed paint. Any experiences would be appreciated. I plan on keeping this car for a long time, so I want it looking good!

Happy Motoring!

rayscar · October 2002

I spend a lot of time on www.mbworld.org. Look for the W211 forum. It has a lot more posts per day and is very informative. Enjoy the car! My E500 should be here early in November. Can't wait!

et610 · October 2002

Thanks for the referral to the mbworld site. Very interesting and a nice combination with this one.

Good link is :

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/index.php?referrerid=5473

Ed

paladin6 · October 2002

I've broken down and finally purchased a Mercedes. After (happily) owning Audi's for several years, I decided that the redesigned E would be the car. Well, my wife decided. I chose the 8-cylnder and color combo black/with tan interior.

I love the ineterior and the way it goes (like a bat out of hell!), but what is up with the paint??? We were excited when we picked it up as we were the 1st on the block to have the new "E" so I didn't really notice how bad the paint looks. I've had it detailed twice and finally took it into the dealership complaining that something was wrong. "Orange peal paint is a Mercedes trait" is what they told me! Uncecceptable.

Does anyone else feel this way??? I'm bummed every time I see the car because it doesn't have a beautiful mirror finish like my black Audi did.

carnaught · October 2002

....you have a brand spankin' new E500 and it has "orange peel" paint? in a $50-60K car? Bummer! If so, I'd tell the dealer you want to talk to the district or regional rep. for Mercedes. I'm surprised at this because the three Mercedes I owned all had excellent paint jobs. My (3) Audis, come to think of it, had more mirror-like finishes, though. At any rate, I'd tell the dealer that their attitude is unacceptable for such a high status, high priced car. Tell them, that as an auto enthusiast, you have made your situation known to other enthusiasts and they are waiting to see your dealer's response.

Good luck. Hope you otherwise are enjoying this car.

et610 · October 2002

I also would like to hear the dealer response.
Hopefully, you just got a service advisor who was trying to blow you off. The MBz area rep is the one to talk to.

Any dealers/service techs out there care to respond. We would like to hear if this is something that a dealer would be justified in advising.

spirolli · October 2002

The car is running extremely well. The noise I have been hearing is coming from the master cylinder pump. I can repeat the noise by pushing in the break with the car off. It's annoying as hell. It's a over active master cylinder.

Other then that, the car is awesome. Fast, accurate and smooth. I am enjoying it more as time goes on.

r1_97 · October 2002

Defective paint on a new MB is unacceptable. Check other cars on the dealer's lot and if there is a noticeable difference, demand a repair or new paint. If, on the other hand, all the others cars appear to have the same style of painting (orange peal or otherwise) then you'll have to live with it along with the many other MB owners.

w210 · October 2002

I believe the new E and SL do share a similar electronic braking system, the funny 'quarking' brake noise in the SL can be eliminated through a simple procedue at your dealership, probably a similar procedue for the E, worth looking into.

mark156 · October 2002

I think that it must be rare event to have bad paint on a Mercedes. I have a 2000 E430 in Brilliant Silver/ash and a 2002 ML500 in Desert Silver/java. My paint is perfect and shiny on both. I do have a few rock chips on the E. Even my '91 560SEL, Black/palomino, had a perfect paint job.

I looked at the new E's the other day (Black with Stone leather, a white/stone and a Silver/ash). All of the paint jobs appeared to be perfect to me.

Paladin6, hope they take care of you on this issue.

M.

philly2002 · October 2002

Its a shame that MB is virtually forced to stay out of the diesel passenger car market in the US. Both my parents drive MB diesels, including a 1995 S350 and 1998 E300 TurboDiesel. The vehicles are tru workhorses and continue to perform perfectly from front to back. Although diesel cars have been sterotyped by many as pollution pockets and "dirty" running cars, well let truth be known-- 25-30mpg in the city isn't too shabby.
Oh yeah how 'bout 400-600 miles on one tank of fuel(not gasoline)? Its bullitproof. The SUV's and commercial gasoline and diesel vehicles are the problem children in and for the environment, not the diesel passengers car of today.

Currently Volkswagen is the only manufacturer in the US selling diesel cars.

I wish MB would and could bring the 2003 CLK AMG CDI to the US. Talk about a high performance economical sports car!

footie · October 2002

So if VW can sell diesels here, why can't MB?

haspelbein · October 2002

Most newer European diesel designs (incl. MB) are based on common-rail high pressure fuel injection, which only works with low-sulphur diesel. This form of diesel is not available in the US, with the exception of California.
These engines are even more efficient than their predecessors, and about 30% - 40% of new vehicles in Europe are diesels.

However, there is another twist: The European emissions standards are geared towards reducing CO2, which is something diesels excel in. In the US, the focus is on reducing smog. And while diesels have made quite some advances, they cannot touch gas engines when it comes to particulate emissions.

In summary, fuel quality and emissions standards make it problematic to sell diesel passenger cars in the US, so many manufacturers just don't bother.

magnetophone · October 2002

haspelbein, the figure is close to 50% in the UK and Germany, and close to 60% in France, concerning diesel purchases.

I read several articles confirming that the E270CDI will be making it over here in a few years. The 2.7 five-cylinder is apparently a modified version of an engine that has been in use for a long time, so my guess is that it is easily modifiable to take high-sulfur diesel.

It's about 175hp and gets the car 0-60 in about 9.0 seconds. Sounds slow but in the mid-gears, probably as fast as a E320 or faster. Gas mileage is probably about 35-40mpg.

While it is true particulates are higher, I've stood behind an S-class diesel (latest generation) and couldn't see or smell anything. Same with a Focus diesel I rented while in Europe. So I think that this country needs to give it another chance!

magnetophone · October 2002

Also: considering how it took the 300D almost 15 seconds to get to 60mph back in the 80's, 9 seconds sounds positively fast!

jures · October 2002

bought the clear frontend kit from invictashield for my 2000 e320 since it was getting many stone chips on hood and grile area, i traded for a 2001 e430 before i had it installed. 1st thing i did was have my local car detailer that has years of practice installing tinted window film install the kit. it took him 5 hours to install the hood and light area only then he gave up. i have not had one stone chip and kit has been on approx 16 months, film still looks good. i highly recommend this 3m scotchcal film but definately have it professionally installed. roger

habitat1 · October 2002

I agree with the call for Mercedes to bring some of its turbodiesels back to the states. It is my understanding that the "dirty diesel" we still have in the US is the result of heavy lobbying by the petroleum industry.

The E300td that I test drove, but didn't buy in 1999 was rated at 8.5 seconds 0-60. Not exactly E55 acceleration, but EXACTLY the same time as my 1984 Toyota Supra 5-speed. Here in the DC area, it is not uncommon to see a used 1998 or 1999 E300 command a higher price than a similar vintage and milage E320 or even E430.

My specific request is for a E350tdi Wagon with 4-matic. I'll dump our SUV in a heartbeat.

haspelbein · October 2002

Magnetophone: Yes, diesel adoption is considerably higher than the average in some European countries. Lower fuel taxes on diesel have been a boon for diesel engines in Germany.

Yes, there are plans to bring the E270 CDI to the US. However, DC also stated that there is "no urgency" in the matter.
As the EPA has established a sliding schedule for particle emissions, ending with the minimum value in 2007, the E270 CDI would be able to meet the 2004 guidelines, but not the ones for 2007.

At the same time, the EPA also mandates the availablility of low-sulpur diesels. I'm not sure when MB is going to enter this game and introduce the E270 CDI. I would definitely love to see the return of the MB diesels, I'm just not sure when that will be.

livetodrive · October 2002

Even though the W210 has only one sun visor on each side, you may have noticed it slides on the rod, so it can cover a larger area. In effect, it serves the role of two visors.

Another neat little tidibit is that the cruise control "Resume" feature can be used after the cruise is shut off.

uncork3 · October 2002

I was told at a training session in 09/02 that we would have S and E
Class diesels in 18 months.

et610 · October 2002

I got an email asking me to re-post the link to MBWord forum:

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/index.php?referrerid=5473

This is a great forum, similar to this one, with a ton of information from other MB owners. Many people from this board there as well as others.

Worth checking out and signing up.

I originally went there on a referral from rayscar who posts on both boards.

mark156 · October 2002

Livetodrive: Yes, both of my MB's have the sunvisor with the sliding feature on the rod. But, especially in the evening, that second visor that can be flipped down in the front when the other one is on the side is a feature I would like. Sometimes, I'm always having to flip the visor from the side to the front because sun always seems to creep into my view.

)

M.

kevinc5 · October 2002

Good review of the new E's:

http://www.forbes.com/2002/10/28/cx_mf_1028feat.html

prabinek · October 2002

I took delivery of my 2003 E320 a few days ago.
One of the many options was the "Parktronic" parking aid.
It is a real disappointment.You only see the front or back LCD lights and there is no audible
beep until one is 10-12 inches away from whatever you are about to hit.
My niece has a Chrysler van with a similar system.
It is far cheaper and works perfectly well. It beeps the minute you start reversing. The beeps get louder and quicker as one gets close to an obstacle. This is NOT the case with M.B Parktronic.
In fact I bumped into a retaining wall the second day I had the car. By the time I heard the beep the car had hit the wall.

topdog047 · October 2002

Has anyone else noticed that water accumulates in the vent cowl on the hood when the vehicle is parked with the left side high, sloping to the right.

Cowl/vent appears to be only decorative - Upon inspection you will find a drain on the left side.If car is left - in the rain or after washing, water will be retained on the right side. Seems to be a design problem.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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