Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

eadlu · May 2003

I owned both the 1996 and 2000 E320 cars and while I am not sure what mbnut means by "most substantial" the 2000 steering was boosted far more at low speed than the 1996. I did not notice any meaningful difference in handling on the highway.

sovren · May 2003

If you are affected by the 2003 buyback for the Comand/Nav problem, please post in this forum:

sovren "2003 E Class Comand/Nav Debacle" May 27, 2003 9:37pm

We need to band together on this. I think we are not getting all we are entitled to.

mark156 · May 2003

I will have my E430 four years on October 16th, 2003. I currently have only 20,500 miles and it runs perfectly. I've only had a couple of warranty items done. The lighted vanity mirror covers broke off both mirrors, one fog light needed replacement because it would not aim correctly.

I thought about trading for an 2004 but I'm afraid of the troubles I will get with the new model. Several of my friends have had trouble with their "S" classes. One friend had the whole wiring harness replaced on his '01 S500 (I understand that this is a major repair). I have decided as long as the '00 E runs well, I better keep it. I did receive rear end damage a couple of months ago which made me think about trading but the repair was done perfectly and I don't want to take the "hit" (per Terry on Real World Trade values in the smart shopper section) on trading. I'm sure it would show up on some report that I had $1,800 damage.

I, too, am concerned about MB products lacking in quality. MB better wake up before they loose their loyal customer base.

Mark

habitat1 · May 2003

Well my neighbor who traded his 2001 E55 for a 2003 E500 is now considering an E55 and grabbed me for a "premier" test drive over the weekend. All I can say is that if you are hungry for power, this beast is a feast. As for the necessity of 469 horsepower and 516 ft lbs of torque, I was reminded of the "Field of Dreams" voices: if you build it they will come.

The new E55 is not only perhaps the most powerful car I've driven, it's handling dynamics are significantly improved over the previous E55. Still not quite as good as my M5, IMO, but the best Mercedes has produced. If I ever blew out my left knee to the point I couldn't drive a 6-speed, the E55 would likely be my next sedan.

My neighbor is on the fence. He's had several annoying problems with his E500 to the point Mercedes is offering a free trade-up (i.e. offered to give him 100% of his purchase price on the E500 as trade in on the E55 at MSRP). And, at only about $6k more than the outgoing E55, the new E55 is a relative bargain. I myself am not sure why someone would pay upwards of $60k for a loaded E500 when the E55 we drove had a $76,500 sticker. A lot of money, to be sure, but that incremental $16k buys you a world or two of difference.

merc1 · May 2003

I rember you stating that the previous E55 had a rough ride, how was the ride of the new E55?

M

habitat1 · May 2003

Much better, IMO.

My impression of the previous E55 was that it made up for excess body roll in the base E-class with very stiff shocks and upgraded wheels and tires. Although I may be biased, I thought the previous E55 was a full two notches below my M5 in handling and steering, yet one notch up in harshness over bumps. The new E55 seems like a better balanced car with a much better ground up suspension. Make no mistake, however, the ride is still that of a sport sedan, not an S-class. That's O.K. by me, perhaps not for others.

Supposedly, the new M5 (V10) will only have an SMG transmission. If Mercedes ever offered the new E55 with a 6-speed, I would lose sleep over which to pick.

merc1 · May 2003

I so want Mercedes to do a SMG or even better a DSG box for AMG cars, or at least make them a option. It would fit perfectly since I highly doubt they'll ever offer or be able to sell a true manual in their cars.

M

kkops · May 2003

Has anyone heard of or aware of a production schedule for an E-55 4matic vehicle. I would buy this car in a second if it were available.

Thanks

habitat1 · June 2003

Merc1,

I agree it's unlikely AMG will ever offer a true manual transmission on the E55, especially since they haven't on the SLK32, C32 or CLK55. But, to AMG's credit, the new E55 is a lot more sporting of a car and could, potentially, give even die hard BMW M5 enthusiasts something else to consider, if equiped with a 6-speed.

I have mixed feelings about SMG. The unit BMW uses in the M3 is good, but not great. One of my European associates who ranted and raved about the SMG equiped 360 Modena "F1" ended up getting a manual transmission version. I don't think the issue is purely performance. My assessment is that while SMG is a highly attractive alternative to an automatic, it is still not as "fun" to drive as a stick for those who prefer a true manual.

kkops,

I didn't ask, but an E55 4-matic would surprise me. I admit that, perhaps with the possible exception of the 911, I think most 4WD systems are counterproductive to performance compared to a very well balanced RWD system. They add a lot of weight, especially in Mercedes current 4-matic design.

However, my biases notwithstanding, the Mercedes rep we met on our test drive hinted of a possiblity that AMG would bring their version of the E55 Wagon to the US. So who knows, maybe a 4-matic isn't that far fetched. An E55 4-matic wagon would certainly would be one heck of a replacement for our SUV.

merc1 · June 2003

I truly appreciate anyone's first hand experience with these systems, I'm still trying to get some seat time in a M3 SMG myself. From what I've seen on these electro-manuals they're best only for flat-out extreme driving and quickness of shifts??? Mercedes has one too, but it's only for the C and E-Class diesels in Europe. Now VW's new DSG gearbox is yet another interesting take on the theme.

M

habitat1 · June 2003

I think you are right.

When I test drove the M3 SMG, I distinctly remember waiting at an intersection to make a left turn. As I saw an opening, I gave it some gas and there was a brief hesitation before a sharp acceleration. Under similar circumstances, I would have been subconsciously feathering the clutch of my M5 and made a much smoother turn. I am sure I would have gotten used to the M3 SMG with more seat time, but for everyday driving conditions, I still prefer having direct clutch control.

That's intesting that Mercedes is only using their version on diesels. Perhaps they get even better fuel efficiency and performance. For the record, I think the AMG automatic transmission in the C32 and new E55 is better than BMW's steptronic.

shipo · June 2003

I hope y'all don't mind this intrusion, I thought some of you might find this interesting.

I have been working in London for the last week or so, and I took a side trip to Paris for this weekend past. On my way back to London, I hailed a taxi at something like 4:30 AM Monday morning for a ride from the Gare du Nord area to Charles de Gaulle airport. Said taxi turned out to be a new W211 E-Class and when we started rolling, I immediately noticed that this one was a diesel just like the E220 CDI that I rode in back in April (also in Paris); however, it felt somewhat faster. When we heading onto the autoroute we were following some other traffic up the ramp, and as we hit the main roadway, my driver opened it up, and I was stunned at how fast that thing went from 60 kph (a little less than 40 mph) to 160+ (100 mph and then some). When we got to the airport the driver turned to me while patting his steering wheel and said, "What do you think of my new taxi?" I told him that I loved it. While retrieving my baggage, I checked the trunk lid for the designation and found that it was an E320 CDI. Hmmm, given my dislike of the looks of the new E60 5-Series, maybe by the time the lease is up on my 2002 530i, MB-USA will be importing that thing; I would buy one in a minute.

Best Regards,
Shipo

msgreen · June 2003

I have heard some rumors that the current 3.2L six may be pushed out to 3.7L in a model year or two. Anyone know any more about this? No doubt MB builds great engines, but they appear to be starting to slip behind other makes in terms of overall engine technology (constantly variable valve timing, BMW's valvetronic, continuously variable intake manifolds, etc). It would be nice to have someone from MB at least do an interview and mention some of the upcoming engine technologies....

benzowner · June 2003

here is a good engine technology.
http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/news/newsarticle.html?&start=15- &showall=&id=MER&doc=mer9907192

merc1 · June 2003

Yes it would be nice for Mercedes to at least, at the very least let some details leak out about their next generation of engines. In the past this site: http://mbspy.bacosys.be/index2.html knew everything about Mercedes' future model, engine etc plans...now there are very few updates on the site and worse yet...when the site is updated it's usually with common knowledge info.

Everyone thought the E320, C320, CLK320 would all become "350" models this fall, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I always saw the 3.7L V6 as a stopgap motor anyway as Mercedes hardly every just ups displacement for one model. MB will probably move away further away from truth in badge of displacent too. They'll probably keep the "500" designation as it has a considerable market prescence. The SL600, C230 and ML350 have already broken the rule, but sound better than SL550, C180 and ML370.

This tells me Mercedes is going to 'update" those cars with all new engines for 2005. I keep hearing about a 2.7L V6 with more power than the current 3.2L, and then there is the rumor about a 3.6L supercharged V6 with 300hp and a 4.5L V8, also supercharged with 400hp. These sound juicy, but part of me wishes Mercedes wouldn't rely on supercharging for their main models. This comes at a time where Audi is probably going to to drop their 2.7L turbo 6 altogether. I don't think Mercedes is going to have 2 V8s (4.3L & 5.0L) anymore either, one with 340-400hp will probably be the standard engine from now on.

However with the all cost cutting going on at Mercedes, I guess it's cheaper to supercharge than to go the BMW route with all the expensive valve and timing features. BMW is expected to introduced a camless engine soon!! I would guess that Mercedes SOHC, 3-valve engines are much cheaper to work on and/or replace than BMW and Audi's DOHC 4/5 valve engines. The question is supercharger life/maintanence. Then there is the rumor that Mercedes is going direct-injection, 4-valve per cylinder + supercharging.....complexity again. Then there is a V10 that is rumored for the GST.

I guess the next ML, CLE, SLK, GST and S-Class all due either next year or sometime in 2005 will answer all the engine questions. This waiting is just irritating.

shipo,

When the U.S. gets the diesel fuel situation corrected Mercedes-Benz is due to dominate in the luxury segment. The C270, E320, E400 (a real torque monster), S400, ML400 and so on would all find some fans here I think. VW/Audi won't be far behind, that V10 is the big-kahuna of them all.

M

mbnut1 · June 2003

I read somewhere in article about the Crossfire that MB's current V6's are very cheap to produce.

mbnut1 · June 2003

What does anyone think of $40K for a 2003 E320 with CD heated seats, wheel, HK, cd, and sunroof with 7K miles and 1 year Starmark?

carnaught · June 2003

Sounds the the car could have been an early production one, considering Starkmark certification. Some of the earlier ones have been troublesome. But, if it's got a moonroof and metallic paint, it's not a bad asking price.(Just over $50K new).

mbnut1 · June 2003

Doesn't sound like you think that it is the deal of the century

carnaught · June 2003

Like I say, if the car is metallic and like new flawless, not a bad deal....

anwc · June 2003

I have a 2000 E320 awd wagon with 25000 miles. The warranty will expire in May of 2004. I am interested in an extended warranty and would appreciate any thoughts on this and the best place to purchase one. Thank you in advance.

clark217 · June 2003

Re: message 3504 by microrepair

Microrepair, could you post directions for replacing the rotors. I have found DIY directions for replacing the brake pads, but haven't found any instructions for replacing the rotors. Anyone else done this?

Thanks,
Clark217

2screwsloose · June 2003

Please be aware of the horrendous time Chrysler is giving Daimler. The mini van bubble has finally popped and Chrysler's balance sheet has not looked good for years. This will have an effect on Mercedes for some time to come. Mercedes has tried to appeal to a wider spectrum of potential buyers with the introduction of many new models over the last five years. Costs are up in The Fatherland, the economy is not so good - much as it is here. Do not look for many mind boggling introductions beyond the Maybach and the SLR. Daimler may dump Chrysler if somebody can make them an offer they cannot, possibly, should not refuse.

drew37 · June 2003

I am trying to get a feel for what I can expect to pay for a new E320 relative to invoice or MSRP in the West Palm Beach, Boca Raton area of southern Florida. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

linard · June 2003

Mercedes has used variable valve timing for years. Its design, like everyone elses now, is computer controlled and retards or advances the camshaft depending on situation. Of course, Honda has had under the VTEC designation and BMW under Valvetronic. In addition, with the advent of the V6's in the late 90s, Mercedes began using variable intake manifolds as well. Benz engines have always been very advanced and up-to-date, but often times people don't realize it, much like Mercedes safety record. Other than for the ML (which is also a best pick), all Benzes in the U.S. are better than equivalent sized Volvos in crash testing.

bigrobnh · June 2003

Does anybody here know how the fuel capacity gauge works (I drive a 2001 E320 4Matic)?

Fuel light came on, drove for a while then decided to fill up. At fill up time, I supposedly had 1.2 gallons left. Pump only pumped 18.2. That 19.4 is shy of the 21 gallons that the tank holds. From the pump, I drove to the laserwash and while sitting in there getting a car wash, the gauge went from 20.2 (not the 19.4 I get when I add the numbers) all the way up to 21 where it sat there and bounced from 20.8 to 21. Anybody seen their fuel capacity gauge work like this?

Thanks,
BigRob.

pompano73 · June 2003

I too live in South Florida, I would recommend going to Autohaus, I believe they have about 65 E320's and 15 E500's. I talked to the dealer the other day and he sounded like he was going to make a good deal. Depending on the options I think you could do quite well there. I bought my 2001 E320 there and couldn't be happier with the service I received there sales and Maintenance issues both! I may talk to them again soon because I'm looking at one as well. Tell me how you make out. The guy I talked to I believe his name is Andy.

mbnut1 · June 2003

I'm don't believe Mercedes is using this. At least not on the naturally aspirated V6's. Please provide a reference that supports this assertion.

footie · June 2003

If you look at the composite ratings on crashtest dotcom, you'll note that Volvo and MB have very similar crash ratings in both the US and EU tests.

Lexus is similar too. Looks like all of them have improved a great deal in the last decade.

jfz219 · June 2003

The fuel-remaining value is usually about 1.5 gallons less than the actual content. Think of this as your last prayer reserve. As the full tank gets used, this 1.5 gallon fudge factor starts to accumulate. The calculated mpg and miles driven are accurate.

Remember two things: don't top off the tank after the first trip of the pump, and don't drive until empty.

The typical readout after a filling is either 20.6 or 21 Gallons.

microrepair · June 2003

clark217:

send me your email address and I'll send a message to you trying to describe the process..

Fred

clark217 · June 2003

View my updated profile to see my e-mail address. Thanks for your trouble.

Clark217

fredisdead · June 2003

I'm looking at buying this vehicle and would appreciate feedback from current OWNERS with the parnoramic roof option in a 2003 E-class. Pro/cons would be appreciated.

Also, thoughts on the Drive Dynamic Front seats vs. the Dual-Dynamic Multi-contour seats?

Is anyone getting this vehicle below invoice?

Thanks.

merc1 · June 2003

A while back we were having a discussion about Mercedes' future engines. There is a very interesting article in the July Issue of CAR magazine about Mercedes' upcoming engines.

According to them some Mercedes execs feel that AMG doesn't have a unique enough strategy with their cars, so all of their future engines will be naturally aspirated, direct injection and of the big displacement variety, all making more power than todays supercharged engines.

The also stated that the supercharged V6 in the C32 and SLK32 will be dropped next year in favor of the naturally aspirated 5.5L V8 in the new CLK55 AMG. Interesting. Only the AMG V12 will have forced induction from 2005 onward. The current monster 5.5L supercharged V8 is due to be replaced by a direct-injection 6.3L V8 with close to 600hp!

There is still talk of a V10, also of large displacement w/direct injection. It was confirmed that C-Class is next Benz to get a facelift for 2004, mainly the interior (thank god). Still no mention of the "regular" engines yet, but going by all this direct injection/large capacity talk I think it's safe to say we won't be seeing Mercedes go backwards in hp like this did when they switched from 4-valve to 3-valve engines.

M

habitat1 · June 2003

direction for Mercedes engines.

However, I have to observe that the current SLK32 isn't exactly the class leader in handling and steering. Replace the supercharged V6 with a 5.5 liter V8 that weighs more than BMW's 4.9 liter V8 in the M5, and it can't help but make matters worse. Even the CLK55 feels dull and overweight after driving the BMW M3.

Is Mercedes/AMG going further in the direction of "muscle car" mentality and leaving balance, handling and steering up to BMW and Audi?

merc1 · June 2003

I doubt that they'll give up on precision, the V8 is scheduled for the next SLK chassis not the current one. Though Mercedes' were never about beating BMWs at sheer handling precision, that just isn't their mission.

I personally never saw the CLK55 as a competitor to the M3, that was always the C32's place. I too wonder about about a V8 in a C-Class sedan, again. MB might not have a choice with the next M3 rumored to be V8 powered and cars like the CTS-V carrying V8s.

It will be interesting as you say to see how all of this turns out.

M

rbrenton88 · June 2003

Someone mentioned not to add any more gas to the tank after the pump first trips itself. Can you tell me why?
I live in one of 2 states in the US that still mandates that an attendant pump the gas (no self-serve at all). Although I like this for the ability of having someone else do it, but they almost always insist on squeezing in more gas until the next even dollar amount is reached. Most are too dumb to realize that this is irrelevant if I'm paying by credit card (which they see in my hand).

gsenthil · June 2003

Gas when stored underground is at a much lower temperature than in the gas tank of your car. To account for this, there is an error of margin left. However I dont think adding a few extra ounces will do any harm nor would it add anything to the attendant's pay.

I also know people who fill gas and do the same and always wonder why.

houstonmerc · June 2003

Which 2 states don't allow self service? That sounds wierd.

shipo · June 2003

I pumped my own gas for 20 years before we moved to NJ, and found that I was suddenly retired from pumping my own gas. I too thought it was wierd, that said, I got used to it real fast. ;-) Now that we live in NH, I kind of miss having someone pump my gas, oh well. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

boo20 · June 2003

DON'T overfill MBs tanks! The owners manual warns against this practice. Once the autoshutoff failed to work on my E class and when I removed the nozzle gas shot out under pressure. The car would start but not run properly for about 20 minutes until the excess gas was burned off (the engine kept cutting out). The dealer told me that an SL owner had overfilled the tanks once and this resulted in $5000 worth of damage.

enkken · June 2003

Has anyone test-driven E320 and E500 back to back? Extra amenities aside, is the larger engine in E500 provide enough increase in performance and comfort from E320 to justify the difference in price?

linard · June 2003

Sorry for the late response, I haven't been checking lately, but here are some links on Mercedes' use of variable valve timing which started in the early 90s with the DOHC heads...

On the old 5.0 liter V8 from the 1992-1995 E500 -
http://www.supercars.net/garages/PeP/12v2.html

On the current V6s (from 1999)-
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0372&P=4
(from 2003)
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/newcarguide/16069720020723.html

On the old inline-6s -
http://www.mercedesshop.com/300e.htm

On the old 2.3 liter inline-4 -
http://www.benzforum.com/reviews/review_02.php

On the old C220's inline-4 -
http://caranddriver.radicalmedia.com/member/bg/1995/luxury/merced- - esC.html

But yeah, they've been using this technology for years! Go Mercedes! Haha...

laurasdada · June 2003

I believe that (in NJ at least), the no self serve rule is an employment issue. By having pump attendants required, more jobs are created.

Are there any Boston area folks here who could talk about what they paid for their E? Anybody deal with MB of Westwood or VITI in Rhody?

mbnut1 · June 2003

Thanks. In all the reading I've done on these cars I never picked that up. A guy I've worked with first mentioned the notion of variable valve timing over twenty years ago.

donk7 · June 2003

I have owned both a new 2003 E320 and E500. The first had electrical problems that the dealer couldn't fix and they offered me a new car at no cost. I had ordered the same exact car. When the car came in, I decided to drive a E500 before taking the replacement E320. What a difference! Much quieter, smoother and much more powerful! I took the E500 and paid an additional $2800. Overall mpg is about 3 mpg less. However, the E320 felt like it was under powered and not very responsive at times. I had a 99 E320 that felt much peppier. For me, there was no choice! However, insurance is also higher on E500. Standard wheels are wider than Sport Pkg.

habitat1 · June 2003

There is an $8,000 difference between the base MSRP between E320 and E500. A few items come standard on the E500 that are optional on the E320, bringing the actual price closer together when comparing similarly equiped cars. But I am still curious as to how you got an E500 for only $2,800 more than an E320, assuming that the E500 wasn't stripped and the E320 loaded?? I would have thought the apples to apples difference in price to be more like $6,000.

I can't imagine anyone going for the E320 if they could get the E500 for only $2,800 more.

gsenthil · June 2003

E320 + Metallic Paint + E3 + 4Zone Climate Ctrl= $54,115

E500 + Metallic Paint + E3 + 4Zone Climate Ctrl= $57,945

Difference = $3,830

IMHO The E500 makes more sense.

habitat1 · June 2003

I get $57,600 or the E500 and $52,675 for the E320 ($4,925 difference) when I price the two cars equiped as you indicated. Perhpas I'm doing something wrong.

I do agree however, that even at nearly $5,000 more, the E500 is a relatively better deal. It is nominally more than a BMW 540i sport, whereas the E320 is substantially more than a 530i sport, which I consider a much better "drivers" car, albeit a bit smaller than the E. On the other hand, when afurther loaded E500 starts going into the $60k+ range, it seems to me the M5 or new E55 starts to look like a better deal, if that's not a contrdiction in terms at $70k+

gsenthil · June 2003

Did you price it manually? Or did you "Build Your Own" at mbusa? Please make sure there is no special order charge/configuration.

The prices I obtained above are from MBUSA.com- Build Your Own

Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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