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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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On the other hand, the MB does last a lot longer, running like a tight, youthfull car when it has many, many miles on it...but most luxury car owners are out of their Luxury cars every 4 years, so who cares how long it will last each of its next 2 owners?
On the other hand...how can you look at the LS 430 and the '04 E class, and not see the LS 430 as a "plain, girl next door" loaded Avalon, and at the same time realize that there is nothing else to compare the new E to. (except wwhen you compare trips to the shop)...
...Rolex vs Tag Heuer
Therein lies the problem, taking everything as gospel with not a single thought behind it. Your first post is about Toyota, now it's Lexus. The percentage would be higher for Lexus based on time since they've only been around since 1990. Now since 1990 between Mercedes and Lexus I wonder what the percentage would be? Any facts on that? As always baseless claims from you.
I don't agree with you on reliability and durability. While they are not mutually exclusive they aren't joined at the hip either. Everyone knows that Toyota is tops in reliability as are most Honda and Nissan products. However you'd be fooling yourself if think that Acura hasn't had a transmission problem on the TL-S, Infiniti a brake problem with the G35. Japanese cars as a whole are not on the same level as Toyota. To say so is completely incorrect. Durability is also found in things like paint, body, interior and so on, and cars like Mercedes and Volvo have always shined in these areas. For every story you have about an Acura or Toyota lasting, I can spot 10 more on the street, while running, that are in horrible shape.
M
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Durability / Reliability... How do you actually know? You cannot guarantee that each owner treated the car the same. For one to test both of these, you have to have 2 cars (picked at random), driven the same way, the same mileage, the same routes and then see what happens after certain intervals. Say, after four years, you compare both cars and see the results. Car A Issues vs. Car B Issues.
Ideally, if Car A had nothing but oil changes done at the end, and Car B ended up in the shop for this and that (hopefully you went to different shops to rule out bad mechanics at anyone shop)...
You could say that Car A was a better buy than Car B. But hindsight is always 20/20 and at this point it does not mean that the next car A model that you have will be as reliable at the first car A model! Chances are you will not be buying a car B, (but just say you did, and the next car B was trouble free after 4 years? What does this mean? )... So many variables to take into account.
It is all luck whether you get a lemon or not. If the original owner takes super care of their "baby" then it will last for years and years. If the owner used their SL500 as an off-road vehicle, then it won't be timeless - and if you end up buying that vehicle used, you will be stuck with a lemon! (Just like the Carfax commercials).
One thing that Mercedes has, that contributes to this everlasting image of the company, is the grill with the star on-top. Rolls-Royce also has this 'look'. The fronts of Lexus, Acuras are somewhat all different.
If anyone has ever seen the "Maltese Falcon" then they can relate the MB Star and grill (and all the feelings about it) to "What dreams are made of..."
Mercedes spent the last 100 years building a brand image and a mystique about it. Lexus 10. So I grew up with the Janis Joplin song, the Indiana Jones movies. This added to the mystique went I purchased the car. Give Lexus a few song writers and movies and too will have a mystique about them in a couple of decades.
I see more comparasions with Lexus and Mercedes. Is it just me? But what about Mercedes to Porsche? Or Mercedes to Bentley? Or Mercedes to Jaguar?
Thanks -
Ed - 2002/E-320 "My Gullwing" [14 times serviced in a 17 months).
Quality problems, but there is light at the end of the tunnel:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&sto- ryID=3836369
Autoweek article about Mercedes & BMW to build more cars (which means more delays at the dealership's service center):
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07003119
Thanks in advance --
I have a Volvo S80, and a recent job switch has changed my commute from 3 miles to 20 each way. The Volvo is mediocre in bad weather, so I am thinking about changing (and upgrading...).
How is the E320 in bad weather? I want the 4Matic, but no one has one I can get before winter is all but over. Is the RWD acceptable? I am also 'hooked' on NAV systems, but all of the reviews say that the Mercedes NAV system is NOT user friendly. Any comments on that? And (finally), should I consider a used E320 with 4Matic and NAV or hold out for the 2004?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
The Clair Motors Website is showing 3 2004 E 4 matics in inventory. They are also called Mercedes of Westwood (MA) and are located on US Route 1 just west of Route 128 in the Boston area.
I checked Herb Chambers website and didn't see any there - they have two dealerships, one in Boston and one in Lynfield. Foreign Motors West in Natick MA might have them but they don't show their new MB inventory on line.
Good shopping.
Does this rattling cannister episode (hopefully it will get resolved soon!) impact your feelings about the traditional 'prestige' that Mercedes garners and strives to merchandise?
There are discussions in lots of other boards here on Edmunds where Mercedes forte is considered it's prestige and cache.
Yet, I wonder how much longer that can continue when it seems that so many owners have problems right from the drive out! It's clear that they aren't struggling with 'bleeding edge technology', they are having a hard time getting the basics right as the poster prior to you indicates.
I don't think you can buy more time once you've taken delivery. But call your sales person and ask..
Hopefully, this will get the attention of their legal dept who will light a fire under their service dept.
P.S. The dealer says that the wheel is not supposed to get warm and the wheel is working properly.
Mine doesn't seem to do anything, I had another Benz and it was warm on cold days.
It does not get hot but is does get warm enough to feel nice on cold days.
I have purchased Mercedes Benz automobiles for the past 15 years and yes, this problem does have me wondering if I should now buy American!!!
I am just guessing here, but...
The thumping you are hearing could be caused by a defective purge valve or perhaps one that is not properly mounted and thumping when actuated. I guess it could be one of the lines that comes to the canister that is 'jumping' during purging and then whacking into something.
Here's an explanation that I picked up on the web that might give you some clues.
"Most fuel evaporation systems use the charcoal canister to store fuel evaporative vapors. The canister consists of a fuel-resistant nylon or plastic container filled with activated charcoal granules. Fuel vapors are "soaked-up" by the charcoal. Venting air through the canister removes the fuel vapors and restores the absorbent qualities of the charcoal. A basic canister has a single purge line from the top of the canister to the air cleaner, PCV line, or intake manifold. When the engine starts, manifold vacuum draws fuel vapors out of the canister. The purging action restores the activated charcoal. To gain more control, a purge valve is used on some designs. This valve allows the manufacturer to tailor purge timing, as well as the volume of canister fumes purged to suit a particular application or engine operating condition."
Good luck.
M.
I'm currently on the market for a 1995 (prior to the heinous '96 redesign!) E320. I am looking for one with 70-90K miles on it for a weekend car. I understand the 3.2L 6 is a highly reliable engine. I'm amazed at the deals out there (>$15K). I'd love some input from '95 E320 sedan owners about your experiences, issues, and suggestions. Thanks in advance!
This appears to be a Florida car in very good condition. Check ebay motors item #2443589508. 9 hours to go as of 10 am Eastern time on Sunday.
There is also a 95 about the same mileage in Richmond. Buy it now price $9800 for sale for two more days.
There's an E300 Diesel too.
Good shopping!
Re: the 3.2L engine (the 96 & 97 have the same engine), it is not as durable as others would have you believe. It has a generic problem with the head gasket and many of them need a new gasket between 100k & 150K. Mine needed it at 116K and I was able to get it done for "only" $1350.. That was at my dealer and others quoted from $1600-$2000. Also, the grounding of the coils on the head is problematic. It just cost me $130 to have a mechanic tell me that one coil was not grounding correctly causing the Check Engine message as well as running kinda rough at times. He put some conductive gel under the coils so they wouldn't do that again.
Good luck in your search...
I tried a demo car E500/2004 last week with the Keyless go. I don't hear the annoying alarm you mentioned. Maybe there is some thing wrong with your car ?
With that said, the Keyless Go is pretty cool feature I find.
Secondly, are there problems specific to certain years within say the last three years.
Finally, about the "head gasket" problem, when I read posts (e.g., Microrepair) about dealers quoting $1600 to replace the head gasket, does that also includes rebuilding the cylinder head because "as long as it is off and needs to be resurfaced we'll do the head too."? If it doesn't include what used to be called a valve job and more correctly should be called rebuilding the head and they are charging the poor fish who buy MB because "they scream success" (to use an earlier poster's description) $1600 to remove the head, resurface it so it will hold a gasket and then put on a new gasket, wow! Someone should email Elliot Spitzer to look into this after he gets finished with mutual funds.
Lets run some numbers. Lets assume that the MB flat rate time is 11 hours which works out to $1000. The rest of your bill ($350) we will say was for new gaskets, new fluids (although in truth the old antifreeze was just poured back in) , the head resurfacing done down the street (no Virginia, car dealers don't have cylinder head resurfacing machines), an "environmental charge" their CPA thinks is a cute way to run up an invoice, and maybe a valve or valve spring they had to replace.
Now, if the technician had the right impact wrenches (you don't think that they work on these things with gentle hand tools, do you?) laid out, how long could it have really taken him to rip off the head, bring it to a bench, strip it, send it out for resurfacing, then reassemble it and reinstall it? Maybe 4 hours? If the warranty labor rate was $85 per hour and the mechanic received a third of this (including all benefits, health, workman's comp etc.) then the guy with the air wrench picked up maybe $350 for a morning's work.
This reminds me of the conversation between a physician and the plumber: "Gee, $125 to fix someething in 5 minutes? I'm a doctor and even I don't make that kind of money!"; "I know", says the mechanic, "neither did I when I was a doctor."
Well, you're half right, footie - the fuel vapor recovery canister doesn't burn off the fuel vapors. But, the vapors are NOT vented to the atmosphere, either. The vapors are stored in the canister's activated charcoal.* Depending on ambient temperature, these vapors may condense back to liquid in a liquid/vapor seperator. The recovered liquid gasoline is directed back to the fuel tank through a dedicated line. However if it's too warm for the vapors to condense, they're periodically directed into the intake manifold by the purge control valve as pressure rises, to be burned normally by the engine. At NO time are fuel vapors intentionally vented to the atmosphere. (The EPA would just love THAT!) That's the whole idea of the fuel vapor recovery system in the first place.
*This is why you never want to top off the tank until the filler neck is full. The excess liquid fuel will be forced by normal evaporation pressure build-up through the return line to the charcoal canister where it will be absorbed by and foul the activated charcoal. (Think of it as the automotive equivalent of acid reflux we've all experienced after unthinkingly indulging in a wedge or two of pepperoni/anchovi/pineapple pizza just before hittin' the sack. Oh, my bad - this is a Mercedes forum; none of you people do anything like that...) In some cases it won't be able to clear itself, the engine won't run right, and the owner'll be looking at pricey fuel vapor recovery system components replacement. On a final thought, this system is dependant on proper sealing - including the fuel cap. These caps have a ratcheting one-way clutch. When replacing the cap, ALWAYS turn it tightly enough that the ratchet makes several loud clicks - that's the only way you know it's sufficiently tightened. Don't worry about the clicking noise - it's intentionally designed that way so it can be heard above the din of traffic going past the service station. Nothing's broken.
I read it wrong. The quoted part of my post it says that the top of the cannister is connected back to the engine so that the manifold vacuum can bring air through to purge it.
I like that explanation better than relying on some drip system to drain the gas back into the tank.
I am not trying to be argumentative, but the issue here is why is this guy's E is making an awful sound and I don't think that has anything to do with the gas cap. That sounds like something a sales guy at a dealership would say.
My money is still on the purge valve. I think it's cycling too often and at the wrong time.
A look at the OBD II profile might show the blips if it were accurate enough.
Too much guess work for me and a problem that shouldn't be occuring in the first place.
Thanks