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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Comments
According to my dealer, he believes MB is slightly inflating the price of the CDI in the US because of all of the favorable press and pent up demand. Based on that strategy (i.e. milking), they can keep it. Just kidding, I still think it's a great car, but I have all but decided the new Acura TL - with it's exceptional navigation system, bluetooth hands free phone system, 6 speed manual transmission and Acura reputation for quality and reliability - is my next sedan. I wish it was RWD, but it still handles as good as the E-class, just not the 5 series. And I can sock the savings in price into my daughters 529 account.
The deal is not done, but that's my heavy leaning at this point. But I still don't think anybody can go wrong with an E320 CDI, even if it is a few thousand more in the U.S. than it should be based upon European pricing. And who knows, perhaps when I actually drive one in a week or two, I'll change my tune.
My question is that is this a normal condition? MB dealer tells me that this is normal and expect every 1000 miles about .5 qt oil consumption.
As far as test driving one, my local dealer has promised a short test drive of one they have pre-sold, but will not be picked up for a week after delivery to the dealership later this month. I have driven the 1999 E300 TD and expect the E320 CDI to be a healthy step up in power, but not dramatically different in handling. Meaning that it is nice, quiet, solid and stable, but no sport sedan.
As for RWD vs. FWD, a test drive of the Acura TL 6-speed convinced me that Acura has done a very good job of extracting maximum balance and handling out of their new TL FWD platform. The 6-speed has a stiffer suspension than the automatic (which I did not drive). I also considered the G35 6-speed as well, but it was not nearly as refined and - in my opinion - aesthetically attractive as the Acura. The 330i is slightly too small and the 530i is slightly too ugly. The AWD A4 3.0 is way too heavy and sluggish. So, albeit I might prefer RWD on paper, nothing so far wets my whistle as well as the TL.
P.S. The TL would require me to make the FWD compromise. However, the E320 CDI requires me to make automatic transmission, no sports suspension, very heavy car compromises. Nothing is perfect, although an E400 CDI on an E55 chassis with a short throw 6 speed would come close!
Most important of all, Diesel has big problem with pollution. Check out this article.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_- id=7816&page_number=1
"Except for the 0-60 time, diesel ourperforms gas.." If I'm not mistaken, you have the 0-60 times reversed and the E320 CDI is actually quicker than the E320 gas. According to one road test I read, the E320 CDI, at 0-60 in 6.8 seconds, is very close to the 1997 E420 (6.7) and my 1995 Maxima 5-speed (6.6). For a nearly 2 ton family sedan that gets over 35 mpg, that's pretty impressive performance.
pho1,
I haven't considered the C-class lately, although I did consider the C32 a couple of years ago, but decided to keep my Maxima and get a Honda S2000 instead. As for the current C-class, I am under the impression that it's no bigger than the 3 series and, given that size choice, the 330i w/ performance package would be my choice. But I do think the C-class is a nice looking alternative for someone who prefers Mercedes luxury over BMW sport.
tomjava,
I haven't yet read the entire article you posted, but my immediate reaction to the claim that diesels are high pollutants is that it's more politics than science. Am I the only one that finds it strange that California and other states are making it difficult to obtain an E320 CDI that gets 35-40+ mpg while Governor Arnold drives around in a Hummer that gets 9 mpg. And not only didn't he have to pay a gas guzzler tax, but it also qualified for a 100% tax write off??? I'm a Republican, but it makes even me wonder what's in the water out there?
I'm buying a TL instead of an E320 CDI for other reasons. But I would like to see the record set straight as to whether the issue is the vehicles or the antiquated fuel that we sell here in the US.
I also find it interesting (and disturbing) that the absolute worst offender of emissions - as far as my nose and eyes can tell - here in the Nation's Capital are the Metro Buses. Drive behind one of those for a few blocks and you need to go to a car wash. I guess it goes hand in hand with lead contamination in the public water.
I also verified that 2005 models will no longer include scheduled maintenance!! Do you think other manufacturers will follow suit? Amazing.
As best I can tell, "scheduled maintenance" costs them relatively little to provide - with 10,000+ mile oil change intervals and the like. On the other hand, with Mercedes having a bad rap for being expensive to maintain, I would have thought the perceived value to the consumer would have been high.
The Japanese premium brands have never offered free maintenance, but they don't have the bad rap of Mercedes to overcome. Let's see what BMW does for 2005.
I am only slightly biased here, but feel that these cars are overpriced to start with and have the same durability and reliablity as a Chevy. Case in point.
I'd ask for a detailed service history on the car before buying it.
How did the transmissin fail? What, if anything, did the failure do to other components in the system.
Having the car starmarked only frees you of paying for the hassles and loss of use a 'bad apple' like this might cause you. Sure you got the money, but do you have the time?
Perhaps the owner got rid of this car for very, very good reasons.
And the salesman is going to tell you the truth. Ask for the owner's name and call him or her if you can.
If they drop scheduled maintenance - I've purchased my last MB.
Needless to say, I'm looking at other makes, many of which have a far better long term repair reputation.
Three months and 10K ago the transmission would not upshift from 3d until I stopped the car, turned it off and started again.
Is the bad transmission genie peeking out of the bottle?
Best Regards,
Shipo
Has anyone been able to solve this problem?
I did get a brief test ride in a E320 CDI being prepped for delivery to another buyer. Very nice all around, but I didn't find myself that much more impressed with it that I was back in 1999 by the then E300 TD. Even though the E320 CDI is well ahead of the E300 TD in terms of acceleration, so is the rest of the field that forms the basis of comparison, I guess.
What was a little shocking was the one I was given the test ride in stickered out at $58,300 +/- (premium package, premium leather, xenons, etc.). And this particlular dealer, known for discounting more than average, has indicated full MSRP for CDIs for at least the remainder of 2004 and into early 2005.
Putting this in perspective, the 1999 E320 TD that I almost bought was priced out at $42,400. The 2003 530i sport 5-speed I contemplated through European Delivery last year would have gone for under $43k very well equiped. Even the MB delaer had a brand new 2004 E320 Wagon on their showroom floor discounted to $49,900.
The E320 CDI is a great car, for sure, but pushing $60k (and no included maintenance, not that that's a big deal) is hardly a bargain. I'm sure it will do well among the diesel enthusiasts, but it would have had to come in under $50k to get me to consider converting. And it's performance advantage over the gas model is probably temporary - the new 3.5 liter V6 is likely to produce performance comparable to the old E430.
Regarding the E320 CDI, my comments were intended to be specifically directed to the engine and its capabilities, maybe I missed the mark by a bit. I have always felt that the conventional wisdom that "diesels won't sell here" was a bit naive, and that if cars with engines like the 3.2 CDI were available in large numbers and varieties, they'd sell.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I owned a Black '82 Mazda RX-7 GSL during most of my twenties (22 to 29). Lots of fun. Awesome Japanese sports car.
As I was reaching 30, I wanted to have an auto that I can take on road trips with my many friends. I decided on a '92 Dodge Grand Caravan LE (29 to 36). I was very happy with this auto and finally sold it to my corporation. I would get another caravan except that it was not "cool" to own one (soccer mom stigma).
The "cool" mode of transportation was fast becoming SUVs and I wanted one with lots of luxury but not one that looked like a soccer mom's wagon. I decided to lease a '01 Infiniti QX4 (36 to 39). Excellent SUV. Very safe (I was involved in a very bad car accident and not even it's windshield was cracked). My lease will be up at the end of this May '04. To my disappointment, Infiniti no longer makes a mid size SUV that looks like a truck, but its unibody constructed.
So, off to research I went. My budget is a maximum price of $70K or less and that I like it to be a luxury auto. Here was the list that I went on. Three American Luxury automakers (Cadillac, Lincoln, & Chrysler). Three Japanese Luxury automakers (Lexus, Infiniti, & Acura). And, four German Luxury automakers (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, & Porsche). After doing some research, I noticed that they don't make as inefficient an 8-cylinders as they use to (a somewhat comparable gas mileage). I like the power that they have, when you need it. My philosophy is that, if in your average usage of your auto, you only need 50% or less work out of your engine, then you know that you can get at least twice as much work out of your engine when you need it. So, I decided to graduate to 8-cylinders at this point in my life.
At first I looked into only SUVs. I was pretty much dead set on Porsche Cayenne. But after reading so many bad reviews on Edmunds and following my philosophy of never buying an auto model on its first year or on its last year, I ruled out this beauty of a monster. Acura and Swedish automakers (I didn't mention them) were immediately ruled out for not having any 8-cylinder engines.
American automakers are starting to get better at competing with the imports, however, it is still not a proven fact that they are consistently better. So, I eliminated them for this year and maybe will reconsider them again in 2 or 3 years for my next vehicle lease. Audi was also eliminated, because, similar to American automakers, they had a very bad reputation for a long time and in my circle of colleagues, they have not yet been accepted. I broadened my options by including non-SUVs such as sedans and coupes as well as midsize SUVs. However, roadsters are too impractical to be an only car for a CEO of a technology company. And, you know my opinion on wagons. So, as you can see, my list is now narrowed to Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti.
Mercedes (M, CLK, & E), BMW (X5 & 5), Lexus (RX, GX, GS, & LS), and Infiniti (FX, M, & Q) were my choices. Mercedes M sucks from what I hear from everyone including Consumer Reports. Lexus RX looks like a wagon. Lexus GX is on a truck bed and is not a unibody. So, as far as SUVs, only BMW X5 & Infiniti FX were qualified and were soon both eliminated because I didn't like the look inside nor how they drove. Lexus GS & Infiniti M are both last year's model and thus poor residuals on leases and against my philosophy as well. Another philosophy of mine is that if you're going to consider a Coupe, then it should be a convertible. And, if you're going to consider a convertible, then it should be a hardtop. This rules out the CLK. Now, we're down to E-class, 5-series, LS, and Q.
LS drove like a boat. Super comfortable, but didn't feel like I was driving it. It felt like I was watching a movie about the road.
5-Series drove great, but the inside didn't look like a $60-70K auto.
Q was great, but compared to the E-class, it came in second place.
I loved just about everything during my many test drives of the E-class.
So, finally, the E-class has become my choice. I want an E500 (E55AMG is too overpriced for my budget) with 326-Premium Package and 422-Appearence Package. And, a plus would be 325-Rear Seat Package. Keyless Go, Parktronic, and Tire-Pressure Monitoring System would be great too. I have yet to find one in all of USA that has all of these, but have found many with the first two packages.
The lowest lease quote that I've gotten so far (around 20 benz dealers in L.A. metro) has been around $750 39mos 12K/yr. Is this a good deal? What do you guys think about the other options that I have mentioned? What do you folks think about a 24mos. lease? I'm choosing either a black/charcoal or one of the metallic/ash or charcoal. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated! What would insurance run for something like this? I have to decide and sign a lease by the end of May '04, since I'm giving up my '01 Infiniti QX4 on June 1st '04. Thank you, in advance, for any and all inputs!!!
As far as black goes, since you are only leasing the car for 24-36 months, I guess it's strictly your preference. But another friend of mine has a flat black 1997 E420 that started looking ratty at about 2-3 years. He is preety meticulous about keeping the car clean, but the flat black showed every swirl mark, paint chip, etc. The finish on my 1995 Maxima with 152k miles looks better. The mettalic blacks fare a little better, but still require a significant amount of effort to keep looking good. If I were to go with an E class, something other than black (or white) would be my choice.
Good luck.
FWIW, the accounting firm for my company clearly feels that leasing is far more cost advantageous versus buying.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I can do financial analysis in my sleep, but there is no absolute objective answer to this analysis and for you to suggest buying is always better than leasing is inaccurate, at best.
For the record, I have only bought my cars, whether titled in my name for personal use or in my company's name for business use and depreciation. However, I typically buy cars with the intention of keeping them for 7+ years after which residuals and depreciation are pretty much exhausted.
If I were to desire to have a new car every 36 months and not want to have excess depreciation risk and no-brainer tax returns and deductions, I'd likely consider leasing. And, frankly, I probably should have done so with my 2 1/2 year old Honda S2000 that I am now looking at trading. I paid $34.2k cash (including taxes)for it in November 2001. I can now go through the pain of trying to sell it privately at about $24.5k or trading it for $22k on an Acura TL or E320 CDI (same dealer for either). So it will have cost me roughly between 10k-12k for 30 months and 18,000 miles. Had I leased it for 30 months, the total cost would have been about $12k over that time. However, I would have had $34.2k still sitting in a brokerage account. What's that worth? Between -$10k and +$20k depending upon what portfolio it was in. Oh, and on the depreciation front, I may have to recapture a bit at ordinary tax rates because of the accelerated 25% allowed in 2001 after 9-11. Had I simply writted off the lease payments, no recapture would be required and, although it would have been nearly a wash, the process would have been simpler.
Professionals and companies that like nice steady cash flows, want/offer new company cars every 3 years, don't want to sell privately or negotiate trades, etc. are well served by leasing. And the Mercedes/Acura dealer I would either buy or lease from is very reasonable in accepting "normal" wear and tear at turn in time. Park the car in the middle of your country club's driving range, and you'll have a problem. But you wouldn't do that with a car you just bought for $60k either.
If the hybrid has been "perfected" to where reliability is not an issue (and considering this is coming from Lexus, highly doubt problems) while performance is no longer a weakness, wouldnt consumers flock to the hybrid because regular gas is easily available versus diesel fuel?
I'm surprised MB doesnt have a hybrid offering announced.
I was looking forward to the CDI until I read early adopter reviews that ultimately, the CDI is experiencing some turbo lag, and despite what journalists are reporting, owners still notice a louder than normal noise from the engine during normal commutes as well as during morning idle. Really, the only reason to get the CDI is if one honestly wants to save on fuel and help the environment, otherwise the car itself does not sound like a compelling alternative for those used to the smoother performance of the regular gas engine - add to that the $1500 premium US dealers are charging and it makes sense they'll only send over a limited number.
Gasoline is already sliding off the map in some countries.
The reviews I have read indicate that it is extremely hard to tell the vehicle is a diesel, and even then only at idle. My father test drove the new Passat diesel last week, and said he could not tell it was a diesel, and it felt as fast as his 1.8t.
And I agree with dudleyr, the 320 CDI is relatively simply, proven technology that is extremely durable. If you want a vehicle that is a near sure bet to go 250k miles, the E320 CDI would probably top my list. The hybrids sound very interesting, but I'd give them a little development time to work the bugs out.
The advantages of the Diesel to me are no tune ups and you can put a million miles on a diesel which you cannot do in a gas car. I have also read that with the Hybrid the battery life of the car is about 6 to 7 years so you will have to make a big investment around that time so to me a Hybrid is a better lease deal.
I hope that MB will be able to get this car certified in NY soon.
Mercedes is to be credited for making a TDI that runs on the US "crap", but will run even better when the low sulpher diesel makes it's way to our pumps.
Mercedes is recalling 680,000 cars worldwide, including E-Class sedans built after March 2002 and wagons made after March 2003, because the electronic braking system has failed on some E-Class and SL-Class cars.
The fix requires new software and should take about an hour, although some cars may need their hardware repaired.
Let us know what you think!
A word of warning. I tried to take European delivery of an 04 E last year. My dealer checked my preferred date of deliver, 6 Oct 03, with MBUSA and they said they could support it. My wife and I made airline reservations, planned our road trip from Munich to Amsterdam, et al. But when push came to shove, MB suddenly decided they couldn't have the car available until 16 Oct. We ordered the car for US delivery and cancelled our reservations - with some cost. We picked the car up on 24 Oct . . . and that's when I found out the build date was 11 Sep 03 and it had sat in a lot over there for weeks. I contacted MBUSA and was told they make no promises. It's too bad that such a fine car is represented by such inferior business practices. The car is really nice and she's satisfied, but MB's arrogance is a major detractor. My wife and I buy a new car every two years. I'll be replacing my Corvette with another in 06; she her E in 08. We're hoping BMW will soften and tweak the 5-series by then and, if they do, pick one up in Munich. MBUSA, if you're reading this, you can probably figure out who I am - but I doubt you really care.
BTW, you can get what you want by ordering from any manufacturer for US delivery. We did and are satisfied with that part of the experience.
The dealer drove his cousin's 2001 RL back and only managed 26 mpg on the return trip at a constanst 65-75.
To make the CDI even more attractive, diesel is now selling in our area for around 20-25 cents per gallon less than regular uneleaded.
The E320 CDI gets 40% better mileage than the gasoline E320, accelerates to 60 MPH in 6.8 seconds (vs 7.4 for the gasoline E320, both figures from Road & Track), and will easily last twice as long as a gasoline engine.
I plan to buy another DCX product, the new Chrysler 300C, which is $22,000 less than a simarily equipped E320CDI. However, if DCX offered the same or a better diesel in the 300, I would buy it instead of the HEMI.
It is good that we are lowering the sulphur content of our diesel fuel, but beyond that, we all need to demand that our diesel emissions regulations not be more extreme than those in Europe.
Hybrid cars are slow and VERY complex, and will certainly not last nearly as long as a diesel. Diesels also conserve resources, since they last at least twice as long - one car vs two or more.