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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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I have an '05 Acura TL which comes with the Bridgeston Turanza EL42 tires. I don't know if these are the same as you're considering buy my MAJOR CAVEAT is snow performance: in a word, POOR! I'm in Boston, so snow is a fact of life (not to mention I'm a skier in ME, NH and VT). I've driven FWD all my life with all-season's and never had a problem, 'till this past winter. The only thing that kept me on the snowy road was common snow-driving sense, the Acura's traction electronics and probably luck. In standing water, I think they hydroplane fairly easily too.
So, if you're in a snow belt, I'd avoid these tires or plan on snows (as I may)...
Really like the E350, tested an E320 but (New England frugality always wins with me, unfortunately) I just didn't see the E as $20k more car than the TL. Kinda galling that with MB (or BMW, Audi, all Europeans, I guess) you have to pay extra for metallic paint, HID headlamps, heated seats, sunroof, etc. whereas with the TL you get it all.
Still every time I see an E, well, I want one. I'm so cheap!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Re: lack of 4-matic. My rear wheel drive 2001 has the ESP and ASR and until I drove it last winter on snowy and icy streets, I had my doubts whether it was going to be OK for bad weather. But I was amazed at how surefooted this car is with the snows and the ESP switched on. You have to intentionally defy the laws of physics in order to get it to lose traction and go into a spin. It is an incredible system and I'll never even consider 4-matic from now on. Of course I rarely ever **must** go in the middle of a snow storm, so it isn't imperative for me anyway.
:surprise:
Mark
When the customer service rep test drove the car, he told my mother that it was a problem with the transmission. The dealer gave her a loaner car to drive until her car could be fixed.
On Friday, at the end of the business day, the dealership phoned my mother and told her that one of the service mechanics would be *taking the car home with him for the weekend*.
The service mechanic that would be taking her car lives 40 miles from the dealership in an area of L.A. that I *really* would NOT be comfortable parking a $50k car in. What's the deal? Is this NORMAL??
Firstly, I take issue with a new car, only a month owned, already having problems. But above and beyond that, I find it incredibly dodgy for a mechanic to take someone's car off the premises and keep it at their home for the weekend!
The dealership assured my mother that it's par for the course and they are insured, should anything happen to her car; however, if something DID happen to her car, it would pay for repairs, not replace her car. Therefore, her new car would become a salvage.
Does anyone have any advice? Is it common for the 2006 E350 to have transmission problems? Is it a common and acceptable procedure for a mechanic (at the MB dealership, mind you) to take the client's car home with them?
Thanks.
(also cross-posted to the Problems & Solutions board)
The service department claims that the transmission problem was due to low transmission fluid. I really find that hard to believe. And they needed to take the car off the premises and drive it *150 miles* in order to determine this?!
The car seems to be running okay for the moment. We'll see what happens.
Incidentally, the dealership where her car was serviced was the Rusnak in Arcadia, CA. If you get your MB serviced there as well, please beware. After having read the Rusnak website, I had to laugh. Number one in service? More like number one in serving themselves---with *your* car.
Thank you....
MB E-class: 5.011
BMW 5-series: 4.359
Lexus GS: 3.335
Infiniti M: 2.623
Acura RL: 1.721
AUDI A6: 1.509
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
-100k miles (total). Mercedes repairs can certainly be expensive, but 3k upfront is a lot of dough. What do people think? Should I get the warranty or "self-insure"? Thoughts on extended warranty and squeaky steering wheel appreciated.
Oh, I still have the groan.
It's pretty clear what has happened w/Mercedes. In one of the other forums (LPS I think) someone posted an MSNBC link to a story detailing how Mercedes put pressure on suppliers to cut costs. And it allowed these suppliers to be less strict on tolerances to meet those goals.
I've had two fan speed regulators go.
I have the steering wheel that groans when it's warm.
I currently have a speedometer that jumps rather than sweeps once my car has been parked in a a hot parking lot all day.
My drivers side headrest motor burned out in the first year. I'm the only driver of this car so it is NEVER used.
My car was serviced 3 times for leaks in the transmission (identified as 3 different components).
There is plenty more where this came from...
My parents, in Florida, have had 3(!) rear windows drop/shatter due to failed lifter mechanisms.
After the transmission fiasco, the dealership gave me a complimentary 1 yr extension on the warrantee, I guess under starmark. That made my coverage 5 yrs/100K (from 4/50K). No sooner does the factory warrantee end, my passenger side headlight washer springs a leak. (This is another of those items I NEVER...and I mean NEVER...use). My first inclination was to just let it drain..but, wouldn't you know it, those crafty mercedes engineers linked the two fluid resevoires together. So, of course, I couldn't wash my windshield either.
Anyhow, back to the story. Starmark did not cover this repair. When I asked them if they felt that the washer was a safety system, they said no. Interesting how they list it under safety features on the SALES brochure.
I wouldn't buy the extended warrantee. I'd add the 3+K you save to the 20 you'd make selling the car and buy a Lexus.
Regards,
BigRob.
Hmm, $3K for an aftermarket warranty? I think that when you bought the car, you had one year to buy MB's own 4/50 extension for under $2400.... Seems like a good deal now?
I guess that's why I only buy slightly used MB's; I get the Starmark warranty and buy an additional year or two to make sure I get to 100K with coverage. I'm on my second such deal now. I actually kept my 1996 far beyond the 100K mark (140K); and it cost me...! Head gasket at 120K...!
bigrobnh:
I also currently have the 2001 E320 but without 4-matic. I've had it for 18 months now and it just turned 60K without anything going wrong. It's just had two service trips. Now, since I mentioned it, watch me have to take it in for a dropped window or tranny leak or whatever.. BTW, if you are the ONLY driver, how did you ever realize the headrest motor burned out?
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying for a moment that MB doesn't have a problem with reliability, but its been overblown by many at this point. The way CR has talked about the E-Class no one here will ever think it is reliable no matter how the cars actually hold up in the field.
BMW while having proved more reliable is no Toyota either. Not by a long shot and them running forever is one of these statements that glosses over the fact that keeping a BMW running "forever" is no cheaper than keeping a Mercedes running forever. Well at least for the first 4 year or 50K, which BMW now pays for.
MB's problem isn't due to them thinking they could do whatever, it comes from being spread too thin and having too much else going on (mergers etc.) to keep their eye on what they did best.
Also, IMO reliability and quality are different things, or reliability is a component of quality. Audi's have fabulous "quality" but terrible reliability. The day an American car is built as good as a Mercedes I'd buy one. Sure they're getting good marks in reliablity surveys for using ancient technology not nearly on the level of any European or Japanese luxury car, but to say they're eating Mercedes' lunch on quality is simply false. An American car riding on an ancient platform using a derivative of a 20 year old engine might be less trouble to own, which it should be, but it isn't nearly the car a Mercedes is. This is what the surveys and the people who live by them continually miss and evidently can't even begin to understand.
M
I didn't find it, their service department did when doing a Service A or B. I was none the wiser.
They are quite good at finding problems. They aren't always that good at properly identifying them. Nor are they that good at obtaining parts to fix them.
As I've said before, most of the time issues I'm experiencing are not critical. My car has never been on a flatbed. However, they are continual, frequent and quite disappointing.
Regards,
BigRob.
Sadly, in most cases, these "PR" issues are borne from operating or business issues that business executives or managers refuse to acknowledge or correct until a public outcry ensues. MB's is a textbook example of this. MB really doesn't have a "PR" problem as much as a "reality" problem: they have been unresponsive to the growing evidence that their products, processes, systems and infrastructure are not best-in-class. One can debate the how or why, but that doesn't really matter to the consumer. They are the only arbiter that matters.
I have owned 3 Mercedes (and many other lux and non-lux brands) and my problems have been mostly minor, but I know others' are not. What I have experienced though is that the customer service experience -- from sales to service -- is inferior at MB, especially compared with other manufacturers. This has exacerbated the physical quality problem, and is, in my opinion, more problematic over the longer term than the manufacturing quality, because perception is so slow to change, once it has been formed.
One of the 4 MB's purchased by my wife and I had a structural problem with the front bumper assembly... it completely separated from the car when pulled onto a flatbed tow truck! Without boring everyone, what MB put us through soured us both on the brand more than the car itself (1999 ML).
MB has tampered with what it's customers have held most dear over decades... engineering excellence and top-drawer quality. Sure, it costs to maintain an older MB, but well worth it IMO. Whenever I've had my Rolex cleaned and maintained over the years, it has cost me a considerable amount. Well worth it for me based on the ownership experience of having a watch I'll wear the rest of my life!
Arrogance and the ownership experience will never mix successfully and MB has been forced to rethink how dealers hold up their end of the bargain. Some get it... some don't. Those that don't send customers to their competition - simple as that. THe branded image becomes tainted and it is difficult to regain. Witness Audi and unintended acceleration. Problem handled arrogantly and the public responded. Although they build a wonderful car line from top to bottom (especially the A8), their sales numbers in this country lag those in comparable European settings.
If I were running MB, I'd have already bent over backwards to get the dealer (sales and service) channels and the manufacturing operation on the same page with a more collaborative business process focused on a quality ownership experience. Can't have both arms of the MB organization on different pages or the customer ultimately suffers.
One interesting thought... Toyota has historically had the highest "quality" car lines but among the worst retail experiences. They still sell lots of cars on quality perceptions (and reality) alone and people still endure cheezy dealer experiences. Tells me that if MB can arrest the quality issues and thoughtfully engage its consumer base, they will pull out in fine shape. The competition is nipping at their heels and, in varying degrees, successfully taken long-time customers away.
We'll se if real leadership surfaces at DCX.
You know its funny, the NYC MB dealer is the only company-owned site in the US and you'd think it would be a showcase for a quality ownership experience...it is far from that. I have had better experiences at the Ford dealer up the street.
I agree that if they can get the quality right then they can turn things around. It will take time but it can be done. But they will really only have one chance to do it right.
1) Service experience has been better than others. I have not experienced Lexus, but Honda, Subaru, Toyota and BMW service has been less than the level of service I experienced at MB.
2) Driving experience. This is the most important factor. MBs are just very solidly built and I have a great experience driving them. I don't care if my car never breaks down but if I don't enjoy driving it I don't want to own it. I've had new Japanese cars and after a couple of years, they just don't feel the same, they feel worn out. The engines just feel used up already. And the metal skin is so thin that a minor hit from someone else's door will cause a big dent in it.
I'm not arguing with anyone about this, it's just my experience and my thoughts. Your mileage may totally vary.
I am just about to purchase a CDI- will probably order as I cannot find available one that has the options that I would like.
I presently own an Audi A6 and am choosing to sell that vehicle prematurely because of numerous and repeated minor electrical annoyance problems. My expectation is that MB will be better, and hope that MB is already on the way to improved QC. I have owned 4 MBs in past, the newest being an '84, and all were virtually trouble free.
Am wondering if anyone has a dealership they recommend particularly as a GOOD place to purchase a new CDI? Willingness to deal on price is a strong consideration as I am not wedded to the dealership in my home town :P .
Keeping my fingers crossed...
If your car doesn't have them already in the rear door panels, then you cannot do the roller-blind shades aftermarket.
The clip in ones are not too terribly expensive.
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Since it was my wife's car, she all but called it quits on MB, a car line she always admired. The saleswoman we worked with at dealer #1 had since changed dealers and went to bat for us at her new dealer. Arranged for a fully loaded 2002 ML at their cost and she has provided excellent service.
Although I love my 2003 e39, I do still desire another MB one day when things get back to where they should have always been. I can (somewhat) live with a manufacturing defect, but I can't live with the arrogance of sales and service people. Believe the inconsistencies across the dealer channel contribute to many of the issues I read about on this board.
Although my e39 provides an exceptional ownership experience, it is a very different and more "sporting" vehicle. Would love both brands in my garage as follows (current models)...
MB S-Class (new platform)
my current e39 530SP
BMW 650
CLK55 cab (would love the SL, but need room for my wife and the pooch!)
BMW M3 6-sp (no SMG)
MB 420CDI (when it is available)
SLK55 (wife loves it)
and, gotta have the new 997 Carerra C4S
They also have been getting quite a few CDI's. 2005 as well as 2006 models.
Mercedes has alsways been known as a well made car...theoretically, you paid more because you were buying a car that was barely broken in at 200,000 miles, whereas the avg American car was well worn at 50K and worn out at 100K...
If they are having true quality issues, dealers should be offering top-notch service and putting pressure on Mercedes to improve quality...if it really is a PR problem, meaning that the car is good but false rumors have been circulating, then it is up to Mercedes to use proper PR to set the record straight...
OTOH, if I were BMW and Audi, I would keep my eyes open and recommend to my dealers to give folks super-service beyond the call of duty to win them over...
If Mercedes quality truly has deteriorated, does anybody know why???...
Thanks!