Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

cwliang · August 2002

jmarronte: I'm getting 32-35 mpg driving 70% highway and 30% city on my 02 EX sedan. I'm pretty light-footed, though, probably only hit 5-6k RPM once or twice per fill-up and for the most part keep the revs under 3000 on the highway and under 2000 on local roads.

As for LX vs. EX, I've driven both and the LX does feel slightly better in the low ranges but not enough IMHO to offset for running out of 'breath' in the 4000+ revs... whereas in my EX I feel like power is always just 1k (and a downshift) away... Unless you're racing...

sobers · August 2002

I read that 2003 are going to have some more chnages to the rear suspension to make it more sporty. Better tires are also on call for EX. EX is supposed to get Alloy Wheels. This without any price increase. THere is likelyhood of Lx getting Keyless entry standard as almost 70% buyres get it installed !! These are not at all confirmed though.

theracoon · August 2002

Here's part of what Honda says about the 2003 Civic changes (at HondaNews.com)

2003 Honda Civic Coupe and Sedans, the Best Become Even Better

Torrance, Calif.
08/20/2002 --
The Honda Civic, long considered the best car in its class and America's small car sales leader, features a host of product enhancements on the sedan and coupe models for the 2003 model year, including:

jrct9454 · August 2002

...are only on the EX coupe, not the sedan. Still, it all sounds like more progress...lots of small complaints being addressed. Getting the height-adjustable seat in the LX is especially important.

cwliang · August 2002

I would love to have a (real?) center console instead of the driver's armrest.

pompedo · August 2002

Can anyone tell me what a 2002 civic lx 4 door sedan with auto transmission in SW Pennsylvania (or somewhere in the east)might go for $.

bjk2001 · August 2002

While I was pumping air in our 02 EX front tire last night, I looked inside the wheelwell and I could see light at the other end of the car. I looked closely I noticed that front wheelwells are open to the engine bay. I have never had a car with open wheelwell. I am picturing during winter time when its wet it's going to get dirty inside the engine bay.
Is it all the Civic or just EX Sedan due to shoehorn everything inside the engine compartment? I know older Civic didn't have open wheelwell.

diploid · August 2002

It's in all of the new Civics, as well as the redesigned CR-V.

cwliang · August 2002

I don't know specifically about SW Pennsylvania, you might want to try Edmunds' TMV prices or carsdirect.com to get an idea of what is being paid in your area. But at this point in the year I would think that you should be able to get a car under invoice pretty easily.

deluxcar · August 2002

We paid $14,200 for a Ruby Red 4-door LX sedan with automatic transmission in Boston (Boch Honda). Competing dealers were offering between $14,500 to $14,850.

Instead of buying the floor mats from the dealer we ordered online (http://www.hondaccessories.com) for $64.80, plus shipping of $7.95 for a total price of $72.75. Additionally, we replaced the standard AM/FM radio cassette with a Clarion DB225 CD player with AM/FM radio for $200 installed.

strager · August 2002

I finally had a chance to compare these 3 back to back. Before the test drives, I checked the tire pressure to make sure it was correct. Here's my evaluation (note that I've only included a few things). All had adequate power for normal driving, IMHO.

Civic LX with auto
HIGHS: Well weighted steering, a "connected to the road feeling", really fun to drive. Good view over the hood. Minimal engine or wind noise. Good driver's armrest. Simple, no-nonsense pricing (LX,EX etc).
LOWS: Lots of road noise spoils the fun! Ride can be bumpy. Same old styling and color selection (would it hurt if they added just a little more pizzazz?)

Corolla LX with auto
HIGHS: Looks and feels expensive, roomy rear seat, higher seating, outside temperature gauge, better color selection than Civic.
LOWS: Steering felt very light (I could fall asleep at the wheel), sometimes floaty ride, more wind/engine noise than Civic, higher dashboard than Civic. Useless armrest. Not so simple pricing, lots of "options" but not as bad as Matrix (in this regard).

Matrix XR with auto
HIGHS: High seating position (one just slides into the seat), good view over dashboard, better steering feel than Corolla but not as good as Civic, better ride than Corolla (Matrix less floaty) or Civic (Matrix less bumpy). Very roomy seating and great flexibility for carrying cargo/people. Reasonable color selection.
LOWS: Instruments/gauges overdesigned at the expense of ergonomics(Pontiac/Toyota were trying too hard to make them look cool). Monotonous black/gray interior, a lighter contrast color would give it an airier feeling, IMHO. Useless armrest. Wind noise same as Corolla, and more than Civic. No folding mirrors for a vehicle that's almost 70" wide. Absurd looking mandatory "optional" ground effects. Even more absurd and overly complicated pricing with lots of options.

For my needs, the Matrix offered the best balance between driving fun and functionality. Unfortunately, Toyota has ruined the Matrix's appeal and styling with its absurd "options". I've heard that Honda will be out with the Stream/Latitude next year, and that may end up being the vehicle I finally buy.

123463 · August 2002

I need to make a purchase decision in one week and am quite intrigued by the hybrid car for obvious reasons. I am having difficulty, though, figuring out how the hybrid would compare to a Toyota Camry with respect to safety. Are there any "independent" publications I could read that would guide me on this matter? Thanks.

godeacs · August 2002

My son is shopping for a new car and is looking at the Protege and Civic. Is the extra $$ for an ABS necessary? He's used to ABS but most of the Civics (and even more so for the Proteges!) we've seen on the lots don't have them. This leads me to believe that the brakes on Civics are pretty good w/o ABS. Comments?

Any input appreciated.....

theracoon · August 2002

I doubt it's an issue of whether or not the brakes on the Civic are good, but rather a price-point Honda was trying to achieve. They can price the Civic's lower without ABS and then charge extra for the people who really want it.

JM2C

godeacs · August 2002

That seems to be what I'm hearing from the dealers I've talked to. No doubt the large majority of folks who buy a Civic don't get the ABS, with cost the biggest factor...

bravedave · August 2002

ABS is only available on the EX-- this I am certain of. It may be available on the Si, but I could be mistaken on that. DX & LX trims are not available with ABS.

chalupny · August 2002

I've pretty much decided to purchase a Civic LX sedan. Was briefly considering the Mazda Protege, but I've convinced myself that the Civic is the car for me. I know that there is $250 dealer cash on the Civic right now (ends 9/3/02 I think). Earlier in the summer Honda Financing was offering 2.9% financing - that ended in July I think. Does anyone know if Honda will be offering any incentives on Civics anytime soon? I drive past the local Honda dealer every day and the number of Civic sedans on their lot has remained fairly consistant over the last few months. I would assume the 03 Civics would be arriiving at the dealerships soon. At this point I'm trying to decide to buy an 02 now or just wait for the 03's. I'm in no great hurry - will wait and see what happens - but would appreciate a heads up if anyone knows anything.

gasguzz · August 2002

What do you mean he's used to ABS, is he engaging it all the time? Then get one that has it.
ABS and good brakes are not exclusive. ABS makes brakes in a given car "better". In performance, it may be less significant in a Civic because the OEM tires are "okay".
It is known in this board that even without ABS, you can increase the Civ's braking performance by switching tires alone.
Yes, better tires and ABS availability? It's in the price-point formula.

godeacs · August 2002

let me clarify...no, he doesn't use it all the time ...lol.. but would just feel more comfortable with ABS on the car since that's what he's always had.

Btw, what better tires would you recommend?

Thanks...

tct · August 2002

I'd greatly appreciate advice as I consider dumping my dying Saturn and buying a Civic. I'm thinking of the EX (b/c I want ABS) sedan. The idea of a brand new 2002 or 2003 is appealing on one hand, but on the other hand, I've heard a rumor that a redesign in 2001 resulted in a noiser and more physically uncomfortable ride as compared to previous models. This leads to me think my best bet may be to look for a used 2000 at a Honda dealer, perhaps a recently returned lease. Please tell me what you think.

gasguzz · August 2002

Kinda loaded question. All things being equal, there's always a trade-off. Soft-compound tires may stick like glue but you may only get 20K miles from them (more grip, more wear). On the other hand, what's the point of 80K tires when they don't keep you on the road (less grip, less wear). Personally, I consider traction as everything and don't even think about wear (the essence of tires).
Dunlops seem to be a fave around here. Michelins usually get top honors. You should go by specific tire model instead rather than brand (not all Firestones are bad, not all Dunlops are good). Check out www.tirerack.com for an owner's overview (make sure you scrutinize the stats) on the specific tire selections.

godeacs · August 2002

for the tip. Will pass on to my son if he gets the Civic....

gasguzz · August 2002

The suspension redesign was the gen-6 front has double-wishbone while the new gen-7 went to macpherson struts. I have the 2K while my niece has the 2K1. While it does feel my car is smoother/controlled over bumps it is not that big a diff at this car category.
And my car is certainly no more quiet nor noisy over the gen-7. This is entry level, folks. When I upgraded my sound, peel back the floor/trunk liners and you won't find any sound deadening material whatsoever anywhere. Lexus quiet it is not.
Which is better? That's relative.

gasguzz · August 2002

the 2K1 suspension was also softer, which I believe was addressed in 2K2.

martylaw · August 2002

We leased a 2002 Civic EX with ABS for our son. I think its about a $300 price difference. A certain percentage of Civic EX's are built with it. A dealer should be able to locate one, if he doesn't have it in stock. Of course, ABS is not something that is activated on a very regular basis, but would help to maintain control in an emergency braking situation. I think its a good idea.

jmatero · August 2002

First of all, ABS is STANDARD on the Civic EX, both sedan and coupe. It is also standard on the Si. This is not an option and EX models can't be ordered 'without it'. I don't know where the $300 for ABS comes from, but it is not accurate. Sounds like they are just trying to milk you for another $300 for something that is standard to begin with. Just go to Honda.com to see what comes with each model. It's also worth noting the LX and DX Civics CANNOT be had with ABS. This is a constant criticism of the Civic line... that you have to buy the most expensive EX models to get a safety feature like ABS. I would think that there are folks that don't need a sunroof or extra HP and would like ABS but Honda doesn't. As for ABS not always being active, that is also not true. ABS is ALWAYS active. If any of your 4 wheels starts turning at a slower speed abruptly, the system pumps the offending wheel in order to avoid lockup. This has saved my butt a NUMBER of times... particularly in wet weather and in emergency braking situations. I won't buy a car without it... which is why I'm looking at cars like the protege and elantra where you can get ABS in more than one model.

gasguzz · August 2002

I agree ABS is on the lookout and always ACTIVE (when braking), but it does not always ENGAGE ("the system pumps the offending wheel").
A matter of terms here.

martylaw · August 2002

martylaw · August 2002

JMatero is correct. ABS is standard on the Civic EX. It was an option when we leased our 97 Civic, but was standard on the 2002 EX. I was confusing it with side airbags, which are an option, for about $300. Sorry about that.

ABS is, of course, always on, but only becomes active when the sensors detect slippage, etc. Since all of our cars have ABS now, I would not want to get one without it, because you should use a different braking technique, depending on whether or not you have it.

doozenberg · August 2002

I'm looking to buy a new Civic EX and was wondering if it would be better to get a 2002 now for a cheaper price or a 2003 in a few weeks for slightly more.

How much of a price difference am I looking at between the two model years and will it be worth the relatively small number of improvements in the 2003? Any input will be appreciated.

jfigueroa1 · August 2002

If you go to hondanews and click on civic they have the changes for 2003.I was on the market for a new car and after some time last Saturday i bought a 2002 civic lx under invoice. am not sure if they will have the same good sales with the 2003 but the changes are not really big at all.
Interior

Improved seat fabric on all models,
New center console with armrest and storage compartment (LX/EX),
New easy to read illuminated gauges (HX/LX/EX),
Rear adjustable outboard headrests (DX, LX, GX, HX, EX),
Sporty 4-spoke steering wheel (DX, LX, GX, HX, EX),
CD player added as standard equipment on HX and LX models,
Manual driver's seat height adjustment on LX models.
Exterior

Aluminum alloy wheels added to the EX coupe models,
New wheel cover designs on DX/LX sedan and coupe and EX sedan,
Two new exterior colors: Galapagos Green and Shoreline Mist,
Rear combination tail lamps on sedan receive a freshened, re-designed appearance.
Greetings from sunny Miami.

backy · August 2002

Awhile back there was a thread on a buyer considering buying a Civic or Elantra. So what happened??

bartalk2 · September 2002

Does anyone know whether the $250 dealer incentive on '02 Civics due to expire 9/3 is going to be extended?

A friend wants to buy an '02 Civic EX in the next week in the Boston area and was given a price of $16,800 which seems quite high, $600 over invoice, plus, according to Edmunds, there's a 3% holdback on Civics besides the $250 dealer incentive.

What price could he realistically get on an '02 EX?

Thanks.

deluxcar · September 2002

Try Boch Honda in Norwood, MA. We bought a 4-door Civic LX with auto for $750 below invoice. If you are willing to haggle (I hated one of their fat sales managers) then you should do well.

I wish I could refer you to my sales associate but unfortunately he no longer works there. In any event to get such a good price you must be willing to finance through them. You don't have to but you must at least show a willingness to do so.

Bon chance!

bartalk2 · September 2002

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, my friend isn't much of a haggler and hates buying a car for that reason, so... You got a great price. Enjoy.

Merci

bowke · September 2002

i assume the $16800 figure was on an automatic ex coupe? if so, your price will also depend on how many in that color there are in the local market...if its the only one, take the deal and run! lol

firephoenix777 · September 2002

after driving the civic for almost 1 year, i observed the followings....

1)ride is so bumpy. my head hitting the roof all the time when not driving on a flat road.

2)the 4 banger has no power. so dangerous when trying to merge onto freeway because i need to rev the crap out of the engine to get just a little power to match traffic flow.

downshift downshift downshift when going uphill...

3)engine noise, wind noise, road noise......

4)gas mileage getting worst and worst......

5)ppl think you're one of those ricers if you drive a civic.....

6)you see a civic on the street every 30 seconds....

7)when it gets windy on the freeway, you need to make sure the car won't get blown to your left or right lane.

not to offense any ppl here. just to express my opinions.....i just couldn't find any reasons to 'love' the civic like some ppl do.

Bloke · September 2002

Firepheonix

Unfortunately I agree with you on most of your points and have few others too add from my own personal experience with this car.

Whilst there are no major problems and it runs like a clock, I fear it will be my last Honda. I do not like the way the dealers in my area have treated me and my wife in the past. Yes I have swapped dealers, tried 4 in the immediate area.

Also the fact that Honda has restricted the information regarding Recalls and Technical survice bulletins has also eroded my confidence in the company, check www.tsb.com and lookup a tsb for a honda, you'll see what I mean.

Didn't mean to rant.

firephoenix777 · September 2002

yeah. too bad there're no major problems and it still runs....i actually hope it breaks down so i have an excuse to get another car....

mtyf · September 2002

Hi there, I was wondering if anyone had recently bought an '02 Civic LX (auto, sedan, no extras) in Canada, and what they paid for it?

Thanks

jjpcat · September 2002

I agree with you on all those points except the gas mileage. I have driven my 2k1 Civic for 26k miles over the past 18 months. The mileage is still the same: average 34 mpg for mixed HWY/City driving and over 40mpg for pure HWY driving. My car has auto.

I believe many of these problems are common to cars in this class. In some case, Civic is doing a better job than some bigger cars. For example, I drive over some long ocean/bay bridges frequently. It's usually quite windy on the bridges. I feel more secure in my Civic than in the current generation Galant which literally dances in the wind. For this reason, I am strongly against the current trend of building cars taller and taller.

And, I am happy this car has given me 0 problem and it still provides the best value.

That said, this generation of Civic does have some serious problems. Otherwise, Honda won't have done something it has never done before: made rather big changes to a model in 2 successive years after a new generation is released. I do notice the engine is getting noisier.

firephoenix777 · September 2002

i don't really feel secure in a civic at all. oh, there's this incident happened to a friend. he has a civic that parked on the street outside the wall (surrounding) of his apartment complex. one night, a drunk kid hit the civic with an accord, and the civic went up in the air, slided forward on the top of the wall, and fell inside my friend's apartment complex (not his apartment, but in the complex). the accord seemed to have only minimal damage. my friend said when the police arrived, they have a hard time figuring out what happened. i think this is the funniest car accident i've heard.

mrfun · September 2002

Hi all. . . .

Love this board. Lot's of good stuff.

I live in Cerritos, Calif; 5 minutes from Norm Reeve Honda which is the largest volume Honda dealership in the world for 10 years running. Just purchased my first Honda car - a 2002 Civic Ex with 5 speed manual tranny - yesterday. I paid $15,900 (no side airbags; did include floormats) + tax and license. Did I get a GREAT DEAL - no. But you know what? I could have been there for hours haggling over a few hundred dollars; probably could have got them down to the mid $15k range if I wanted to go through all the garbage that too many of us have to experience with these dealers (and Norm Reeve is no different than the others). I wasn't in the mood frankly. Life's too short and we need to keep things in perspective in terms of what's really important and worth arguing about(especially with 9/11 anniversary right around the corner). I was happy to get a well made car at what I consider a fair/reasonable price. There's nothing wrong with giving the dealer a bit extra (profit) if that means that the buying experience doesn't wind up being a nightmare. Should't have to give in like that in a perfect world but we all know that's not reality for the most part. And you have to keep in mind that high volume dealers like Norm Reeve don't have a lot of incentive to bargain down too low as their lots are swarming with folks who are not well educated at all when it comes to fair pricing and wind up paying way more than I did. Therefore, I was happy to get the car I wanted at a fair price and without all the usual headaches associated with new car shopping.

Have only driven the car about 20 miles so far so can't report pros/cons yet. I will report back in after the first 1000 miles or so.

Thanks to all for the great info; keep it coming.

Jeff in Cerritos

firephoenix777 · September 2002

if you deal with the dealer's Internet Sales department, i would say it's easy to buy a civic for a few hundred bucks below invoice nowaday. i bought my 2001 EX last year from the dealer's Internet Sales department for a few hundred bucks below invoice. no need to negotiate, just make them an offer thru email, then go pick up the car. i even knocked off another $25-50 before i sign the documents. i'm not cheap, but just i don't feel like paying too much for this tin can 4 banger. of course, no freebies like the floormat you have.

bowke · September 2002

when you drive an entry level car, you get entry level performance...most other cars in the class have similar issues, but not the reliability, so for the car you have, i think you made the right decision...

if you want it to ride like a lincoln...go buy a lincoln.

bjk2001 · September 2002

Jeff:

You sound like a Sales person from Norm Reeve Honda even advertised highest volume dealership sales pitch. I thought soliciting is not allowed in here. Is this the final push to get rid of all 02 inventory?

If you were not a sales person than you got ripped off by the dealer, You GOT A LOUSY DEAL. I heard many bad things about Norm Reeve in Cerritos ripped their customer off. I could open LA Times and find 02 EX 5 Sp for AT LEAST $1,500 LESS than you paid from ALOT of dealers in So California without any haggling.

bjk

redly_one · September 2002

I've been trying to sell my Civic EX sedan for more than a month now. Here's the details

01 Civic EX sedan
auto, EX options (moonroof, VTEC, CD, keyless)
titanium (gold) just under 11,000 miles
great shape, clean, never been wrecked, no scratches or dents ar stains
$13,900

Am I just asking too much? I bought this car because I "thought" Honda's were know for their high residual value. I need to sell it becuase it is now the "extra" car. It was in the local paper (Indianapolis Star + cars.com) for 3 weeks, sat it beside and intersection of 2 busy roads (people sell cars their all the time) and I've had maybe 5 calls. (we've got caller ID too, so I know I didn't miss any)

Any advise would be appreciated thanks
Chris

backy · September 2002

1. Car is priced too high (see below).
2. For about $2500 more, people can buy a brand-new '02 with all the improvements (including suspension) made for '02, a full factory warranty, no "surprises", and low-interest financing or low lease rates from Honda. Given the low finance rates, $2500 more may be a good deal; payments may actually be less on the '02 than on your car.
3. For $4-5000 less, they could buy a used car like an Elantra GLS with more power, longer warranty (3-4 years, 49,000 miles vs. 1-2 years, 25,000 miles), quieter and smoother ride, etc. When times are tough, more people may go for the lower priced used cars than the premium used cars like the Civic.

Have you used a pricing service like the one at Edmunds.com to see if your price is realistic for your car and area? How does the price of your car compare to prices for comparable cars available from private parties? If your car is priced about the same as Civic EXes from dealers, it's priced too high--people will pay a premium for cars from a dealer. You may have to lower your price also to take into account the low finance rates available from dealers. Have you gotten a quote from a dealer on your car? That will give you some idea of its base value; then you can work up from there, pricing yours somewhere between the trade-in value and the dealer's sale price for a comparable car. Good luck!

diploid · September 2002

I like, and agree with, reasons 1 & 2. Times must be real tough if you're going to buy a used Hyundai, though. And I'm not saying that to trash the brand either.

backy · September 2002

That reminds me of the Air Force general (George C. Scott) in Dr. Strangelove, who slurs the entire Russian people to the Soviet ambassador to the U.S., then says, "No offense intended, Mr. Ambassador!"

Times are tough, for many people. $4-5000 is a lot of money for many car buyers out there. Even if it were not, a well-maintained late-model Hyundai at a good price is not all that bad. I drive one of those (a well-maintained, late-model Hyundai) and I love it.

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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