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I could get into the old debates about relative reliabilities and the worthlessness of resale value, compared to TCO, but I'll let someone else go there if they really want to.
My normal braking technique is a pumping one - I do it automatically. I have driven on European roads (autobahn, M1 etc)where good braking technique is a must due to higher speeds and most cars I drove did not have ABS.
I myself have never locked my brakes on any of the cars I have owned (domestic, Japanese, Korean and European) which is what ABS prevents.
ABS coupled with stability control make sense in a well equipped pricier car but the value in a Civic/Corolla et al can be difficult to justify if you are on a budget.
We each choose different paths for safety. I myself want a car that has full size rear head rests like the current Civic and Corolla. I could have saved $1200 on a previous 2002 Civic but it did not have this feature (plus I liked the overall refresh of the interior).
The current crop of well designed FWD small cars are inherently more stable due to weight distribution, power to weight etc. If I was buying a Camry sized vehicle, I would want probably want ABS etc.
Me, I would rather have ABS than not but I don't think it's all that big of a deal. Other tests have shown the presence of ABS will INCREASE stopping distances on dry payment.
Go figure?
Pumping brakes is fine when you're anticipating stopping on a slippery surface. But a panic brake is an involuntary stab of the pedal. Anyone who thinks they can control braking in a panic, probably thinks that they can brace themselves in a crash and don't need an airbag.
And nobody has still answered my question about other drivers who don't pump brakes who may crash their Chevy Suburban into the flyweight Civic and turn it into a pancake.
Hasn't anyone seen those tests where they brake a car on a split surface (one side more slick than the other) and the car stops straight with ABS on, but flys all over with it off. How are you going to manually pump just one side of the car's brakes then if not equipped with ABS?
I once sold a car to a paramedic who hated ABS. he said the Aid Trucks with ABS take much longer to stop on DRY payment than the ones without it.
Those reports of people thinking ABS takes longer to stop actually come from people who don't know how to use the brakes properly (or they had crappy early GM ABS systems which were subpar in their performance). They get scared by the noise or pulsation and release the pedal a little, thereby confusing the ABS system and resulting in longer stops due to the decreased brake pressure. This is why brake assistance is becoming more widespread. It was introduced due to people's inability to use ABS effectively.
And the option-packaging does benefit the customer. Look at the Mazda6. It's disastrous option packages have killed it's sales because people think they can get option A, C, and D while skipping B but when they go to buy it they find out it's unavailable or you still have to buy E, F, and G to get B. At least you know what you are getting with the Civic.
And if ABS is such a requirement why not go all the way and find a car with side curtain airbags. Then you need VSC. And why not go ahead and get AWD. Before you know it you are spending $26,000 for a Forester or even more for an AWD Audi, VW, or SUV. For $15,000 the Civic is a darn safe car.
FWIW, I've never heard of an ABS mechanism not working. The most negative thing I've heard is the cost of repair if the ABS system fails. Overall, I like ABS; but I wouldn't put in the 'essential' catagory.
OTOH, some folks need all the anti-BS they can get.
On my first time driving in the rain back in 1997, I remember a situation that scared the hell out of me. I was in my parents' 94 Bonneville going down a 4-lane road heading toward a red signal. I got there in time where the light changed green for me, so I kept moving at about 30mph or so (35 is the limit on this road). This tractor-trailer didn't get stopped in time coming from the other direction, and went through the light. I slammed the brakes to the floor to avoid hitting him, not even thinking about ABS (I did have it). I steered around the truck, and kept from going underneath it thanks to ABS. That one experience would make me want ABS in all my cars from here on out.
Hmmmm. I can say the exact same thing for my seat belt. I've never needed it. But one day I might.
If we used the I-never-needed-it rationale to build cars, we'd be still riding around without seat belts, laminated windshields, air bags, collapsible steering columns, etc, etc. What a (more) dangerous place the road would be.
ABS isn't always supposed to stop you shorter. It's designed to allow you to maintain CONTROL of the vehicle while you stop. And after that accident, I won't buy a car without ABS.
Anyone know if the ABS system in the Civic makes any difference in stopping distances? The reason I ask is that all not systems work well. Someone mentioned the Mercedes test several years ago. I think generally, Benz uses one of the best systems out there plus they generally have superb brakes to begin with.
I saw a review of a Buick LeSabre a year or two ago, which I consider a pretty decent car for its size and price point. Unfortunately the reviewer tried to push the car and neither the ABS or the traction control activated as it should have - there was nothing actually wrong with the car just a different system. IMHO something this size should have these safety features operate well.
ABS brakes are like the SUV syndrome - they are giving people feelings of invincibility, therefore they are driving faster than conditions allow. That is why there was no reduction in accidents -- people were driving faster thinking their ABS brakes could save them in any dangerous situation.
I have ABS brakes, and wouldn't want to do without. Do I use them? Yes, on occasion in snowy weather they kick in. But I drive as if I don't have them - meaning slow enough for the conditions.
I have never had ABS activate on any car I have driven despite living in the Toronto area. The suburb where I live gets lots of inclement weather in the winter. Fortunately streets are well maintained and people are generally very civilized.
Back to the Civic. The more I own my car, the more I realize how much larger it is inside than many supposedly larger cars. I parked beside an older Mazda 929 Serenia recently as well as a 5 series BMW and the mighty Civic looks to be comparable. The flat floor in the back is truly a breakthrough in terms of enhancing interior space.
I can't believe that the flat floor contributes more than a miniscule amount of interior volume. Too bad Honda can't rave about the poor suspension tuning like it can a flat floor.
While I was having a few accessories installed on my 04 Accord we were wandering around and came across a 2004 Civic EX coupe. Niiiice is all I can say. Those wheels set the car off as do the new front end, rear end, and character lines. Wouldn't hesitate to buy one in a second if we were in the market for a Civic-sized car. Between the efficiency, reliabilty, looks, and safety the 04 Civic is one hard car to beat. I was also surprised at how nice the interior was. Very classy in black and I love those gauges.
I've grown to really appreciate it. Moving around in the back seat is EASY as is cleaning the car up.
If I had to scartch the flat floor or the ABS, I'd keep the flat floor.
"So many cars, so little time."
The Si is great; but what ya'll have going sounds great, too.
Everyone I take is always amazed by the room in the back of the Civic compared with any other smaller car. The Saturns are the only only which as as roomy but their seating position is slightly awkward.Actually the Civic is roomier than my dad's old '92 Accord (which has now become and '03 Accord).
Thanks,
W
16,800 mi
port: My significant other recommended you use teflon tape to cover up the spot where it rubs. All dealer-installed OEM Honda accessories are covered by the same 3 year/36,000 warranty as the rest of the car so the dealer should repair the rust but the tape should prevent any further or future damage.
Wm
I read a lot of websites about oil change. Chevron.com, Castrol.com, Mobil1.com, Cars.com... They all suggest oil change at 3,000 miles.
Furthermore, after 7500 miles, I had the oil change. To my surprise, the car accelerates much stronger. I think that the oil is much degraded if we use it until 7,500 miles. I switch back to change oil every 5000 miles.
Ask the oil producers how often to change (and buy) the oil. The industry has always promoted (very successfully) a 3K change to boost sales.
I change the oil at 10k miles just like the manual says under normal driving, which I do. Since Honda designed, tested and built the engine, I'd say they know what they're talking about more so than an oil company who wants you to buy more oil.
I think someday you will change your mind and will change oil around 5,000 miles.
BTW, don't forget to change transaxle fluid. I change the fluid of my car at 40,000 miles. The fluid is very dirty especially near the fluid plug.
Basic maintenance like changing fluids (oil, tranny, coolant) and various filters is very cost effective maintenance for a car. A cheap well maintained car will run better than a more expensive car that is not looked after.
Even my 1994 Hyundai Excel, arguably one of the least well rated cars on the road gave me great service because of the proper basic maintenance I did. (Ofcourse anyone can get a lemon which no amount of maintenance will help).
Like Canada, the US is a really big country and "severe service" ranges from state to state. Rather than a website, I would check with a couple of local dealers what they use for their oil changes.
I do not know how many cars you have owned but if the 10K oil change works for you, then it is really not an issue. And if that is what the service manual says, they can not deny warrantee coverage either.
Some people like to take better care of their cars than that. I am one of those people. My wife's new CRV will never go more then 5000 miles before an oil change.
Am I wasting money? Perhaps. I've seen the inside of a dirty engine and it isn't pretty.
Also, I plan to keep this CRV a very long time.
Anyway, back to the subject. I have been using Exxon Superflo 5W-20 recommended by the manual. When you first pour it in it is thin and amber. After 3000 miles is it thick and black. Same with Motorcraft 5W-20. But when I used Mobil 1 5W-30 it was still amber at 3000 miles and getting dark at 5000 miles, but still not as black and thick as dyno oil at 3000 miles. But financially it is not equivalent, dynooil costs me $1/quart and Mobil 1 cost $4/quart. f it were able to stand up to 12,000 miles I would buy it, but for now I am sticking with Exxon. I would like to try Amsoil that someone has been prasing here, but it is not sold in stores which raises my suspisions a little. One day I may also buy that Honda branded 5W-20 and see if it is as special as Honda claims it to be.
I have an Si so I visit red line often and that may contribute to why my oil is deteriorating at 3000 miles.
I change my oil at 7500. At the 15,000 mile mark I switch over to Syntec and continue the 7500 mile oil changes. It would be hard for me to let the odo get to 10,000 before changing the oil even though I am sure it wouldn't cause any problems unless you drive under severe conditions.
My brother's BMW does not need oil changes as regularly, I think the interval after the first couple is 15,000 km (10,000 miles). They use a synthetic. But ofcourse they charge over C$100 for the service instead of C$30 from Honda so you do not save money, but you do save time.
It's hard to translate these into actual numbers in the U.S. But I think a safe bet is to change the oil right before winter so it has fresh oil to go through the harsh winter months, then change it again in late spring. This results in a change every 6 months or about 5-6k miles. it's more time-based rather than mileage based. Since anytime I put more miles than usual into my car is due to highway long distance trips and they're more gentle than city traffic miles.