Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

backy · December 2003

It's not just the Civic. All the automakers are trying to shave weight for the sake of fuel economy, and costs. I remember my '76 Corolla that had steel bumpers with black rub strips and end caps and spring-loaded shock absorbers. I once backed into another car in my driveway at a pretty good clip (typical kid, wasn't watching where I was going and had no idea the other car was there) and the bumper wasn't scratched and there was only a small dent in the rear panel. No damage to the other car either. Actually, $2000 isn't that much these days, considering the cost of parts and labor. Take a look at the low-speed bumper tests on www.iihs.org and you'll see thousands of dollars of damage on much larger vehicles than the Civic.

mdriver · December 2003

Actually, it's also the consumer that's the reason for the shoddy bumpers. The consumer wants a cosmetically stylish car (and bumper) and what we have today is the result. Style comes first, function comes second.

The previous writer answered his (or her) own question. The Buick is a heavier car. Heavier cars (all other variables being equal) will do better when hitting an object. The Civic is good in its class, but the class as a whole doesn't do too good against heavier vehicles. Of course, Honda didn't make ABS or side airbags standard (or even available (ABS) on the LX). Honda should be ashamed that Hyundai put side airbags standard on its very competitive Elantra but Honda does not.

justin · December 2003

i can attest to the Civic's crashworthiness. in March of 2001 my 2001 Civic EX hit a car, bounced off that, hit a telephone pole. the crash started about 35-40 mph, at an angle in the front. car looked like crap(nearly totalled - about 6k worth of damage). other driver had to pay thank goodness.

no, it wasn't my fault

but the car was great. never drove the same after it was fixed, so got rid of it, but i appreciate how it was built!

anonymousposts · December 2003

I totalled my 02 SI 3 weeks after I bought it. I was going about 50-55 MPH when a woman in a Grand Am made a left hand turn right in front of me. Since my view was blocked by a car going my direction in the left hand turn lane I had no time to react. I slammed her in the passenger side going 50-55. The force spun me around at a 180 degree angle and knocked her about 15 feet off to the side. I had a slight mark on my arm from the airbag but otherwise I had no bruises, scrapes, or injuries. I was awfully sore the next day though.

The impact caused her roof to buckle, it shattered the rear passenger glass, knocked the passenger front wheel off, and even knocked some interior trim loose in her car. The SI held up remarkably well. Both doors still opened, the glass didn't shatter, and there were no intrusions into the passenger compartment.

Needless to say her insurance company ended up paying me $19,300 and I went and bought another 02 Si for $16,400. Regardless, the Si protected me in what could have been a much nastier accident whether I had side airbags or not.

jdevon · December 2003

$2,000 just for hitting a racoon sounds like a honda to me. Honda safty ratings arn't real world figures. I own a Honda myself and have known many former Honda owners, and we all agree that once you pull your head out of the import worshipping cloud, you find out just how over-rated Hondas are.

dudka · December 2003

what would you rather have an expensive repair bill or being hurt or killed in a crash? It is simple choice for me. Insurance ratings are based on the cost to repair, so the more it is to repair a vehicle the lower score it will get with insurance test. What they don't test is what is the extent of personal injury. A well designed car will sacrifice itself to save the passenger compartment.

imidazol97 · December 2003

A well-designed car will absorb energy in various ways while stopping the passenger area more evenly during the time of the deceleration.

To effect this absorption of energy does not mean the nonframe parts should suffer damage from small animals on the road to a great extent.
A racoon should not do great damage to weakly hung, weakly designed lower parts... A racoon is not another 3000-4000 lb automobile.

lngtonge18 · December 2003

I second the notion of the above poster. A small animal like a raccoon/skunk/possum shouldn't do any damage to a vehicle. A deer or large dog will do some serious damage though. I clipped a very large raccoon or possum doing 60 mph in my 00 Accent. The rear wheel actually caught air when it went right over top of him. There was absolutely no damage to the car, not even to the wheel alignment or plastic shroud on the bottom of the car. There was blood and hair stuck to the front tow hook and front control arm indicating the impact, but thats it. If that cheap 10k car could withstand the impact with no damage, then there is no excuse why so much damage occured on the Civic.

anonymousposts · December 2003

Maybe the owner of the Civic involved in the fight with the racoon could give us an example of the things they are repairing on the estimate.

I know my experience in my 02 SI made me go buy another 02 SI after it was totalled. There was NOTHING overrated about the 5-star crash test rating the SI received. I have seen lesser cars hurt worse from alot less. Now that we have a little one on the way we have chosen a 2004 Accord EX-L and a 03 Si to do the baby-hauling duties.

Interestingly, even with my 50+ MPH smash the only part damaged underneath the car (besides the engine bay) was the exhaust pipe. The crumple zones did their job as both doors still opened and there was NO intrustion into the passenger compartment.

celica115 · December 2003

Hi all, I just pickup my 04 LX Sedan. Very happy and enjor the ride coming home. I talked with the finance manager for 5 hours in the room. I had a hard time to fight the 2.9% APR. The guy was pushing VERY hard to sell the Honda Services such as 7 years warranties and protection programs. I can't tell much detail here. Just wanna tell you guys that dealer is not given the low APR easy. I learned a lesson this time. Next time I would deal with the finance manager first then fight for the price from the salesman. I will hang out in this board more from now on.

slickracer · December 2003

My dealer gave me the 1.9% last April no questions asked.

thel · December 2003

I wouldn't try talking to the F&I guy before settling on a car. They won't be to interested for fear of you wasting their time.

Instead, run a credit check on yourself and find out your FICO score at a place like freecreditropoert.com. If you know what your FICO score is you'll have a better idea as to what rates you can qualify for. If your FICO scor is below the high 600's or so, the lowest rates are not a cinch (except maybe with DC or Ford).

BTW, if you don't know what a FICO score is, you need some more education before you go buying cars or houses again.

cmyk123 · December 2003

Called up a manager and got this reply "Oh yes, a mid 700 could lock into a 2.9% financing, yes definitely, come in, come in tomorrow and I will sit down and discuss with you..." And after everythings' signed, got this answer "Oh sorry you still need 20 points more in order to lock into a 2.9%, we could give you a 8.9%..."
LEARN THROUGH EXPERIENCE
Best bet : Purchase the whole thing with a bunch of cash

firstcivic1 · December 2003

i am leaning to civic lx got a deal of 600 below invoice and 2.9 vs a cheaper hyundai elanta gls
that cost less by 1500.00 do you all think the hondas the way to go even with its shorter powertrain the honda is also smaller interior size. but i have read so much about reliabilty.
any help would be great. thanks

dudka · December 2003

[I]#3151 of 3152 thel: APR SCAM by cmyk123 Dec 21, 2003 (2:50 am)
Called up a manager and got this reply "Oh yes, a mid 700 could lock into a 2.9% financing, yes definitely, come in, come in tomorrow and I will sit down and discuss with you..." And after everythings' signed, got this answer "Oh sorry you still need 20 points more in order to lock into a 2.9%, we could give you a 8.9%..."
LEARN THROUGH EXPERIENCE
Best bet : Purchase the whole thing with a bunch of cash

[/I]

Or as an alternative, get financing prior to going to the dealerhsip. If they see someone who came un prepared they will try and stuff the loan. But if you come to buy a car and already have pre-approved financing from your credit union or another bank, they will most definately try to beat it.
Prime example, my girlfriend has terrible credit (she had a bancrupcy). She got a loan from her credit uinon before we went to Ford. Once we finished negotiating the price and were told to go to F&I office, we told the sales man we didn;t need to as we already had the money. He insisted that "his" F&I guy will beat anyone out there. And long behold, she qualified for 0% from Ford. I doubt F&I guy would have qualified her had she not have her own financing lined up.

backy · December 2003

First I am assuming you like the Civic LX and Elantra equally well so now it's down to other factors like price and warranty. If you can get a Civic LX, especially a '04, for $600 under invoice that is a great deal. Is the Elantra a '03 or '04? (The '04 Elantra has numerous improvements.) Are the two cars comparably equipped, e.g., do they both have either 5-speeds or automatics; does the Civic have the optional side air bags (standard on Elantra); does the Elantra have the optional CD stereo, or any other options (ABS, moonroof) that are not available on the Civic LX?

Assuming the two cars are comparably equipped, other things to consider are that the Civic has better fuel economy; the Elantra has more power (138 hp vs. 115); both cars have "Above Average" predicted reliability by Consumer Reports; both cars did well in the NHTSA crash tests but the Civic did much better than the Elantra ('01 model) in the IIHS frontal offset crash test (note that the '04 Elantra has some changes and is being retested this year by both the NHTSA and IIHS); the Civic has historically had higher resale value than the Elantra (which can more than make up for the $1500 initial difference over time, unless you plan on running the car into the ground); and the Elantra has a much longer warranty. Also be sure to check on insurance rates as in some locations the Elantra seems to have fairly high rates for a compact.

If it were me, for a $1500 difference I would buy the car that I liked better. I think both are very good cars, and the Civic's resale value should overcome the price difference in the long run.

isellhondas · December 2003

Try MUCH MUCH higher resale!

backy · December 2003

How do you, a Honda salesperson, define "MUCH MUCH higher"? The Automotive Lease Guide shows the '03 Civic LX returning 62% of its value after two years and 47% after four years, and the Elantra GLS at 52%/33%. So a $1500 difference could easily be made up in a few years.

firstcivic1 · December 2003

the elantra has many more bells and has more room inside i had not read that the reliability of the elantra was near the civic. i liked the elantra warranty i am not a gear guy and will drive the car as long as i can. the fuel milage is 20% better with honda my insurance is 150.00 less a year with the honda. but the initial cost of the elantra is less in the 04 and further in the 03 which there are some in chicago. i had narrowed my choices to the toyota corrola and the honda civic and the elantra for cost.i am losing my company car (grand caravan) that i have had this perk for 8 years (3 vans) and need to buy in a hurry.it seems that year after year the civic is the well respected work horse i only plan on 10k miles a year max.

celica115 · December 2003

You are so right. I do not have much experience buying new car. This is my second new car. I learned alot from the first time buying so I had no problem to deal with the salesman. I did not expect the finance people would play games with you on the numbers. Anyway, next time I will get the pre-approved financing before step in the dealer's finance office.

firstcivic1 · December 2003

thanks for your insights to anyone who reads this.
i got a great deal and look forward to my first civic.

any recomondations on test driving it when i pick it up to make sure its good?
anything special to listen for off the lot?

celica115 · December 2003

Remember to check the oil cap, make sure it is closed. So what is the total for you LX?

firstcivic1 · December 2003

14292.00 out the door tax doc & newplates 15614.27
i just recalled they had the wrong tax

celica115 · December 2003

It sounds so good. I paid $700.00 more but I have the protection package and cargo net. You still paid $500.00 less than me. Good work!

backy · December 2003

Congratulations! One thing you should do it go over the interior and exterior very carefully, look for scratches, blemishes etc. It will be a lot harder to prove later that a scratch was there at delivery. Also you might ask them to check tire pressue to make sure it's right; that is one of the most overlooked delivery items. Also be sure to take it on the highway and check for any vibration or tendency to pull left or right, which could indicate an alignment problem or even a problem with a tire. Sure, you can have these things corrected later, but might as well have them corrected now when you have the most leverage.

firstcivic1 · December 2003

thanks for the help.
your good advice will help me.
the dealer is not the one i will use for warranty or service work. i will use a local dealer.

osum02 · December 2003

I just took delivery of an '04 Civic LX sedan on Dec. 11. I have filled up twice now and do mostly highway driving. I generally drive anywhere from 55-65 mph depending on traffic/weather conditions. I've only driven 280 miles since my last fill up and my gauge is nearly on empty (between 1/4 left & empty). On my last fill up the needle was on empty and when I went to fill up, the pump clicked off what seemed premature. I normally put in right around $16-$17 worth of gas and I only put in close to $14 worth. My previous 2002 Civic LX sedan didn't seem to have this issue.

osum02 · December 2003

I took delivery of an '04 Civic LX sedan on Dec. 11 and I already have a problem with it. I noticed a few days after purchase that when I had the temperature set for heat or warm air I'd hear this gurgling type sound just beyond the dash. I'd only hear the sound upon accelerating from a stop. I took the car to my dealership and did a test drive with the shop foreman so he could confirm the sound. Upon returning to the dealership, he remarked he's never heard a sound like that before. After about an hour of waiting they came back and said that the heater control module was bad and would put it on order. I went in this past Monday to have the module replaced and they stated the car was still making this gurgling sound and said they would have to replace the heater core. They seemed to think the defective heater control module made the heater core go bad because the module somehow feeds into the heater core. Does this sound right?? The heater core is on order and will be installed next Monday, 12/29. Hopefully no other problems. My 2002 Civic LX sedan (made in Japan) seemed to have little problems when it was new, but most were fit & finish issues. There were no mechanical or accessory problems. My '04 Civic was assembled in Alliston, Ontario. I hope the couple issues I've had isn't a sign of things to come.

crazygrrrl · December 2003

I always thought that the gurgling sound was normal.

My 1997 Chevy Lumina, 2001 Pontiac Firebird, and 2003 Honda Civic LX Sedan all make that noise when you turn on the heater. The noise usually subsides after you drive 2-3 city blocks, so I never thought that the sound was a problem.

osum02 · December 2003

The only time I've ever heard this gurgling sound on any vehicle I've ever owned is at the time you switch the temperature knob from cool to warm or warm to cool. And the noise does not disappear after driving briefly. It consistently occurs from a stop and goes away after about 10 mph. Interestingly enough, this past Monday when I was on my way to the dealership to have the heater control module replaced, I did not hear the noise when on the warm air mode. It may be something that comes and goes. I told this to the service manager as well. The heater core is scheduled to be replaced Monday, 12/29. As the service advisor explained, the bad heater control module made the heater core malfunction.

cmyk123 · December 2003

It does happen to my car too. I was told that it is generally not recommended to drive over 50 mph for new car which has under 600 milage. It is referred as the "break-in" period. Since the engine and everything else in there are so new, it will take a while until they take into full performance. In this case, more gas will be consumed. It is not uncommon.

osum02 · December 2003

My Civic owners manual states the following regarding break in of the new car: "Help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 km). During this period: Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). Do not change the oil until the scheduled maintenance time." Personally, I've always been told during the first 600-1000 miles to make sure I vary my speeds and to never use cruise control during this period. The vast majority of my driving is highway and to never exceed 50 mph on a Califorinia highway is impossible and unreasonable. Your assessment regarding more consumption of fuel because of everything being new is quite plausible. Thanks for your input.

aegould · December 2003

Was wondering what others have done to boost the horsepower of their Civic engines. I've got a 1.4 liter, 16 valve engine in my '95 Civic Sedan LX and...well....while I've always gotten great gas mileage...the pickup really stinks. Anybody have any ideas about how to boost my horsepower?

Tony

jaa37 · December 2003

I'm trying to decide between a 2003 Hybrid and a Corolla S. Any ideas? The gas mileage on the Hybrid seems great, but I'm worried about its reliability (because it's a new technology)/depreciation (because new and better hybrids might come along soon)...

bd21 · December 2003

The technology is proven, so you don't have to wait, but you are comparing apples to oranges! You should be comparing the Toyota Pirus to the Honda Civic HX Hybrid. Between this two vehicles the Toyota offers much higher gas mileage and more features. The problem with both Hybrids is if you plan on keeping them past their warranty the replacement battery cost may hurt you in your wallet to the tune of several thousand dollars. You can currently buy an 04 Civic 4 door LX with an automatic or a similar equipped Corolla S anywhere in the country for between 16 & 17K out the door including tax. A hybrid will cost you several thousand more and you will never make that difference up with any gas saving and when battery change time comes you will be hating life. If I had to buy a Hybrid, I'd look at the Toyota. If I was trying to get the best car and bang for my buck, I would get the regular Civic.

dudka · December 2003

Making My 1995 Engine More Powerful by aegould

Try visiting more modifications oriented websites. A good place to start adding power to a Civic is Nitrous. For $600 you can dial in another 50-100 hp, but only for a few seconds up to a minute on a bottle. Next step would be forced induction, either a turbo or supercharger. There are two camps, the turbo people would say that turbos are the way to go, supercharger people say that superchargers are the way to go. Both will agree that those sump pumps sold on ebay as electric superchargers are junk and will hurt your engine when the blades on the impeller brake off and are sucked into your engine.
If you are all "au naturelle" you can swap the 1.4 liter for a more potent 2.2 Liter from a prelude.
Good luck

jaa37 · December 2003

Okay, I eliminated the Hybrid--just cann't quite afford it, plus the depreciation/maintenance ccosts make me nervous. But I can't decide between a Corolla S and a Civic EX. Any thoughts? The Civic seems to have slightly better ratings and resale value, but some people seem to like the Corolla more...

backy · December 2003

If you can get the Civic EX for the same price as the Corolla S, and you like the cars equally well, I'd go with the Civic because of its content that includes moonroof, alloys, and ABS. Of course if the Corolla S you are looking at has all those goodies too, then you're back to square one. You might also consider miscellaneous factors to help you decide a close one like this, like convenience and reputation of the dealer (for service) and color availability.

thel · December 2003

The Corolla S has some body stuff that you either like or don't. I have a Civic EX sedan and a Matrix. The Civic engine has a bit more growl in it... some would say its noisy, but I like it. The Civic has a bouncier ride but some say that it handles better...but frankly, if you want handling look at the Mazda Protege.

If the local Mazda dealers weren't so lousy, I probably would've gotten a leftover 03 Protege for thousands less than the Corolla or the Civic goes for.

dudka · December 2003

If you drive manual you would have noticed a difference in shifter. I assume you did not because you have not mentioned the shifter. Honda has an edge there. Honda manuals are someof the best out there, Toyota makes good cars, don't take me wrong, but their shifters are a little bit diconnected and have some slop in them.
If you are going for auto, then it is a wash. It will basically come down to "who can give you better deal" Don't be affraid to pit one dealer against another. Right now Honda has 2.9% or 3.9% financing available. Last year this time it was 1.9%. Toyota had 0% financing for a while, but I am not sure what they have now.
Corolla S still has the same engine as the regular corolla, Civic EX has a different engine from the other trims. Corolla S is just a decorative package.
I had a Corolla rental when my Civic was in the body shop. It was an auto and the basic version with crank windows. It is a very roomy vehicle, has some pep, and I am sure one with manual would be fun to drive. But, it squatted alot in turns, and when braking.
Drive both side by side and then if still not sure, get one that gives you the best bang for the buck.

thel · December 2003

Honda would definitely get the nod in the shifter department. The 6-speed in my Matrix has poor feel....kind of like what I would expect a video game or a toy to have.

The Toyota shifter is still better than the shifter in the WRX though....yuck, that one needs to go back to the J-car parts bin where it belongs.

jaa37 · December 2003

I test drove both (automatics) and found that the Corolla seemed to have a bit more power, but the Civic seemed to handle a little better. I'm planning on holding onto the car forever, so maybe the Civic's resale value is the deciding factor. Plus I just got an offer for an EX for $16,100 (w/side airbags), which is better than any Toyota S offer i've gotten so far...

thel · December 2003

Is that for an 03 or an 04? If that's for an 04, that's outstanding! If it's for an 03 it's still pretty good....but I like the new front fascia on the 04's myself. I'd say go for it jaa37.

jaa37 · December 2003

yeah, for a 2004. Amazing, right? I called a couple of other dealers, and they didn't believe me...

pulgo · December 2003

If you are going to keep the car forever the resale value doesn't matter.

thel · December 2003

we're talking civic and corolla. Both have high resale values so that is a bit of a wash if you ask me.

Jaa37 - did you get that $16,100 figure in writing on a buyer's order? I smell a lowball.

If you don't know what a lowball is it's basically where a dealer makes you think that he is offering you a Civic for $16,100 when he figures that you will simply shop his number around to other dealers. You then do so only to have other dealers say no way (which it appears has happened to you). You then return to the original dealer only to find that the $16,100 figure was only good for that day or something like "oh you meant on an automatic model...well those are more $$". You get the idea.

Basically the lowballing dealer has no intention of selling you the car for $16,100, he's just trying to either get rid of you or get you to come back in a state of exhaustion where you will agree to a "renegotiated" deal which may or may not be any good.

I'm not saying that is for sure what is going on in your case, just that I would be suspicious.

I have a question. How long were you negotiating / interacting with the dealer that said $16,100?

Please, let us know how it goes.

osum02 · December 2003

The Honda dealership service dept put in a new heater core and my car still makes the gurgling sound upon accelerating from a stop. Upon my arrival at the dealership this morning, the service dept manager said his tech was able to duplicate the sound on another brand new 2004 Civic. The service manager and I went out and duplicated the same exact gurgling sound on another new 2004 Civic EX assembled in Japan. This apparently is a characteristic of the 2004 Civic if all 3 Civic's are making the same exact gurgling sound upon accelerating from a stop. The sound goes away in a few seconds and only does it on when the temperature is on heat.

crazygrrrl · January 2004

So then the gurgling sound IS normal! In a way I'm kind of glad. That means there's nothing wrong with my car, either.

The only car that I had that did not make the gurgling noise was a second hand 1987 Volvo 240 that I drove in my college years. Other than that, all of the cars that I drove had that gurgling sound. It almost sounds as if someone's eaten something bad and their intestines are bubbling with gas... "bluuub blub buuub zoop." Something like that.

Happy New Year everyone! ^_^

imidazol97 · January 2004

None of the cars I've owned made a gurgling sound
-- unless they had air trapped in the heater core after an antifreeze change.

Sounds like a problem that's being called normal! I guess that's cheaper than fixing the design flaw???... as long as people will accept it. LOL

thel · January 2004

I guess I'll listen for it the next time I drive it....if I can remember to that is.

Happy New Year!

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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