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Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I understand your logic behind 1/2 tank or 6.5 gal, 13.1 being the capacity? 6.5 gal would effectively give you a cruising range of 228-247 miles. Contrast this with a(14.5 gal) VW Jetta TDI of app 650-700 miles. On the Jetta when the reserve fuel buzzer and lamp is lit you have app 2 gals left and depending on your consumption 100 miles left. I am guessing there is a longer interval happy medium for the Honda Civic.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Let's at least operate on facts, not speculation here. First, the gas tank on the current Civic is plastic, therefore rust is not a factor. Greg I Know you love to compare car engines to marine engines. And you think your engine needs additives like a human body, but we need to deal with facts here. Water & oil float to the top of gas and solids float to the bottom period! When the fuel light comes on there is more than ample fuel in the tank to keep a normal amount of contaminates out of the system. The fuel pump is in no danger of damage whatsoever as long as you don't run the tank dry period! Don't guess or speculate, it makes people think they need to go to a gas station twice as much or they might damage their car. Again, just fill up a car either before or at least shortly after the light comes on and there will never be an issue. That is the way it was designed. My Dad was a state gasoline inspector and I have 2 years of technical training on outboards and small engines. Also, about 30 years worth of experience fixing repairing cars on the side. Call your Honda dealer and talk to a mechanic, not the service manager and they can verify the fuel facts and fuel pump operation that I have stated.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yeah, I would have no concerns about taking either vehicle to the last gal; i.e. 35-38 miles left on the Civic and app 45-50 miles left on the TDI Jetta. So given consumptions of 12.1gal/13.1 and 13.5/14.5 we are talking ranges of 424-460 miles, 608-675 miles respectively. (The ability to do this is almost routine planning especially in CA,NV,NM desert driving)
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    If you want to run your fuel tank dry, that is "ok" with me. I am just trying to help some other people with quality preventive maintenance information. Oil floats on water, so as such, water will collect on the bottom of a fuel tank. If the tank is low on fuel, and the fuel moves in the tank, the gasoline and water will mix to form an emulsion. That mixture can be picked up by the fuel pump. Think of what that can do to those expensive fuel injectors. Contamination can enter the tank from the service station. As the owner of the vehicle, you are free to make your own decisions as to what type of maintenance you want to give your engine. You do not have to take my advice. Everyone is free to make their own decisions. Personally, I would not let my fuel level go below 1/2, but that is my decision.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You must either fuel a lot or not go too far! :)
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Why do you have to go to extremes? I clearly stated not to run the tank dry! The system was designed to function the way I described. When the the light comes on, head to the gas station. No one needs to worry about damaging anything. It was designed taking into account some contamination. You can fill your tank up whenever you want, but suggesting that the fuel will cause issues if you let it go below half a tank is total unfounded and ridiculous. You do a lot of unfounded and wasteful maintenance on your vehicles and that's O.K. by me. But when you state your personal opinion as fact, it can cause other less informed people to think there is something to your suggestions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Please stay on topic and don't discuss people. That recently helped close a couple of interesting groups I liked to read on Edmunds.

    My opinion is I keep the fuel at 1/4 and higher. The electric pump submersed in the fuel is what cools it. When the fuel drops lower, the depth can't be enough to keep the pump cooled in liquid. The pump runs warmer increasing wear.
    I often refill at 1/2 tank; the 1/4 is my minimum.

    When traveling this causes no problems. The 1/2 tank outlasts my bladder and the need to stretch.

    Around home that allows me to price shop and refill whenever I judge the price is likely to rise sharply the next day.

    An auto mechanic on talk radio has always recommended keeping the fuel tank at a level 1/4 or higher to avoid pump failure.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    We are on topic, but I admit sometimes I chime in harder when old wive's tales are being relayed as truth. Refueling at around a quarter of a tank is a good generic practice. However, the low fuel light is just as safe. Auto mechanics on radio have many unfounded opinions too, so don't take everything they say as fact. The pump has ample fuel for cooling when the light comes on and you can continue to drive for a while without hurting anything. That is the way it was designed. Fill up whenever you want, but realize you can drive until your light comes on without any fear of hurting anything if you need to drive on. I regularly drive my Civic and Accord until the light comes on and this is always at least 2 gallons left in tank. I'm very comfort with the system that Honda's engineers designed. O.K. stick a fork in me, I'm done on this subject.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    "Honda's engineers designed."

    That's with two gallons in the bottom of a fuel tank. What's that? about an inch of fuel. That's enough to cover the pump. Glad you're comfortable with that. These are the engineers with the Accords with brake problems, rattles, (see Accord Problems discussion) and the Pilot with the rear strut that hits something and makes a noise along with the gas tank on the Pilot that has gas sloshing bumps..., I'd trust their design for minimal fuel content so someone doesn't run out to cover me for fuel pump maintenance too.

    "Auto mechanics on radio have many unfounded opinions too"
    Since he's owned his own shop, service and body repair, in Hyde Park, Cincinnati, for about 30 years, I guess he's probably wrong too.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    O.K. I read your profile, so now I know where you are coming from and I'm the bad guy because I tell it like it is. Let's use your logic and your radio mechanic's belief. If I run my tank low and my pump isn't submerged in gas it will overheat and burn up. Wow that would be a great design, because all of these exploding cars would mean people would have to buy new ones if they lived through the fire. Think about it, the light is part of your safety factor, but in reality you could run the tank dry, but at that point and only then do you risk damage to the fuel pump. In many designs the pump is located at the top of the tank internally and the pickup goes to the bottom of the tank. Wait a minute maybe we should only drive for a couple of miles or so and then fill up. Remember you have to keep that pump fully submerged to keep it cool. The fact is most pumps are cooled and lubricated from the fuel running through them, not what is around them. Mechanics are not engineers and sometimes interject their opinions, just like everybody else does.

    I'm not trying to make fun of you, but I'm trying to make a simple fact about design clear. Fill up before you run out of gas for sure, hopefully soon after your low fuel light comes on or start thinking about filling up when you get around a quarter of a tank. They all work and won't cause you any mechanical difficulties.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    When the pump over heats it will not "burn up", it will simply wear out, so as such, there is no danger of a fire. When the electric pump wears out, it does so slowly, so as such, the fuel pressure drops to the injectors slowly. This causes a "lean mixture" over time. A "lean mixture" in the cylinders can cause piston damage over time. Until the "lean mixture" gets very bad, the driver may not notice an operational problem. (This goes back to my original example in the above posting about marine engines). Marine inboard & I/O engines are a great examples, because they wear sooner and they run at higher RPMs than the land based vehicle engines, so as such, you will notice wear patterns over a shorter period of time. MerCruiser, Crusader and Volvo marine engines are nothing more than converted automotive engines for marine use. In many cases, they have the same cam as the land based version, (which causes some other problems such a water intake from valve overlap, but that is another story). Yes there is a relationship between the quantity of fuel in the tank, and fuel pump wear. Keeping the fuel level at 1/2 will provide better cooling of the pump due to fuel movement in the tank as the vehicle is operating. Question, ----what is the purpose of running the fuel level down to the point when the warning light goes on? Most towns suggest that vehicle operators keep at least 1/2 tank of fuel in their vehicle's tanks in case of an emergency! In the marine world we run by this formula: ---- 1/3 to the destination, 1/3 for the return trip, and 1/3 in reserve. Smart boaters never let the fuel tank run below 1/2. When it reaches 1/2 they seek fuel as soon as possible.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I think we're beating a dead horse here folks...time to move on! We all have different ideas and ways to deal with this gas tank level situations. Moving right along...
    Does the '05 LX come with color keyed outside mirrors and 15" tires?
    TIA all.

    The Sandman :-)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    That didn't last long! I read your profile. I see why you can't let go.

    There are some cars, according to a 'working' auto mechanic, where the low fuel doesn't cool parts. In the part the contacts on certain cars showed heating damage and the pumps had higher resistance; they didn't work as well. I recall a coworker who had trouble starting her car; I checked and found no electric pump; fuse was blown. She always was driving on fumes.

    To extend your example (absurb) we could all run our tanks dry, carry 5-gallons in the trunk, and pour it in. We'd be using the tank capacity to the volume! After all, isn't that how the engineers designed it???

    I know that's not what you meant, but you misused what I meant.

    That same 'auto mechanic' recommended Marvel Mystery Oil for quieting pumps in the tank -- for those BMWs that had pump noise due to wear. This was in early 90s...

    I'm done on the subject.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    I know the pump won't burn up, I was making a point about internal cooling as opposed external cooling. Yes if you let the pumping run without fuel it will cause it to wear out as I have stated. Comparing cars to boats is waste of time. You have totally different considerations with boats that come into play. Boat tanks are far more susceptible to contamination because of their operating environment. Some sit on the water constantly and are not used on a regular basis. The fuel is stored and pumped on the water many times. Boats are constantly diving and pitching during water operation. Therefore, comparing a boat to a car is not valid other than they both have combustion engines. O.K., I'm done trying to explain reality.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Please email me for futher discussion or tell me a different discussion group where it's on topic.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    You missed the point in the comparison. I was not talking about the tank. I was taling about component wear! I am finished with this subject.-------------- How about discussing "fuel injector problems", ---- and the need to use "Chevron Techron" as an additive periodically in the fuel tank to keep the injectors, valves and pistons clean? ----Did you know that, "fuel injector deposits" can have an impact on the fuel flow from the injectors?---- Did you know that intake valve deposits can absorb fuel during engine warm-up? Both of these issues can lean out the air / fuel mixture, which can cause drivability problems, a loss of power and increased emissions.----- Lets see what we can do with this subject?---------- The problem with fuel injectors occurs when they are subjected to a "hot soak" condition. This occurs after you have driven your vehicle a distance, the engine is fully warmed up, and you shut the motor off and let the engine cool down. During the cool down time, the gasoline that remains on the intake tip will bake on the tip. Short trip driving increases the possibility of injector tip problems, thus the need for a periodic additive such as Techron. Also, after driving at high speeds on highways, and stopping at rest stops, it is important to let the engine idle for a few minutes to let the engine cool down, before turning it off to prevent "heat soak"!
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    I post on questions or discussions as they appear on the subject boards. I did not bring up the subject and I just was trying to give some accurate insight on inaccurate information. That is what this board is for. Go back several years and you will see, I don't start posts in the wrong areas, I RE: them. I have a lot of technical knowledge and experience, so I post with some good insight most of the time. Like everyone, sometimes I'm wrong. However, on this subject I'm not.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Gregory you are getting me in trouble with imidazol97. This should be on the fuel board, but I'll respond since you brought it up. Techron is one of the best products out there. Fuel injectors do get dirty and they do require cleaning. I think it's a great ideal to put a bottle in your tank once or twice a year or use it when your car starts running a little rough. I use chevron gas (contains Techron)every now and then, which serves the same purpose. Good point Gregory, that is great advice for people to keep their cars running well.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Okay folks - this conversation is going in circles. It's time to move on.

    As most of you know, there is indeed a fuel discussion and various other discussions on the Maintenance & Repair board where some of these thoughts may be continued if you'd like.

    Additionally, let me point out one other thing - there seems to be a school of thought among some in our community that it's okay to do something "wrong" (attack someone, persist in off-topic commentary, solicit, etc.) if it is in response to someone else doing it first. That is not the case. The community rules apply equally to all and if someone isn't respecting them, that doesn't give someone else the right to disrespect them as well. If you feel you must respond, respond by emailing the discussion host.

    Stepping off of that particular soapbox now.

    :-)

    Thanks!
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Thank you!

    The Sandman :-)
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    I was actually excited that this board had any discussion at all ;-)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I will chime in and just want to point out that the actual pump is closer to the top if the tank, the pick up is at the bottom of the tank. The fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by the fuel it has already picked up and not by the mass of fuel in the tank. Item 4 in the diagram bellow

    image

    I agree with the Techron use. I personally use it every 5000 miles when I change oil, always with Mobil 1 0W-20.

    I disagree with the "cooling off" after high speed driving notion. This only applies to turbos which spin at very high RPMs and take time to spin down. By shutting off the engine right after driving at 3500 engine RPM, the oil supply to the turbine bearings will be cut off which will bake the remainats of the oil in the bearings spinnig at 50,000 RPM. Most current Turbo charged vehicle come with "turbo timer" installed from the factory, and the car simply will not shut off if it is not ready to be turned off.

    The notion that you need to "cool off the engine" after driving is most likely an old wife's tale. Engine operates at a very narrow temperature range, this is the job of the cooling system. If the car "needs" to cool off after highway driving by idling, then there is something wrong with the cooling system. There is only about 10 degrees difference between the cooling fan start and stop points. Usually the coolant temp is lower at highway speeds than it stand still, because of the increased air flow at speed. The two little fans at the radiator are not pulling as much air, as driving at 10 mph or above. Properly functioning thermostat is what keeps the engine from "freezing" when driving at highway speeds.
  • murray53murray53 Member Posts: 71
    Thank you for the diagram which should settle this discussion once and for all. I have used the Techron additive for several years with good results. You need to add it to an almost empty tank before filling up to mix it correctly with the fuel. About 3 times a year is all that is necessary, or with each oil change if that makes it easier. A long stretch (at least 40-50 miles) of continuous driving at highway speeds will help keep the injectors clean as well. Some premium gasoline brands also have increased amounts of detergent additives so an occasional tank of premium wouldn't hurt either (except your wallet these days).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Is there any proof that premium fuels contain MORE additives for injector cleaning or maintenance than regular and midgrade?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    No! Premium gas is designed primarily for higher compression engines that require it. It keeps the engine from having predetonation. There is absolutely no benefit whatsoever to running premium in a car that does not require it or is at least designed to take advantage of it like the six cylinder Accord and some six cylinder Toyotas that come to mind. There are no special additives that make it any better than regular gas for your engine. It's just formulated for more performance engines that are designed to use different ignition timing.

    Like I said in a previous post, my Dad worked for the state and his job was to test all grades of gas at all gas stations in his area. I'm sure that someone will chime in with another old wive's tale, but if you want the facts, they are in my first paragraph.
  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    Well stated. And true. But that won't stop some drivers from filling up their car with premium, when regular is required, and then experiencing the increase in power.

    If I told someone I did some mods to their engine, but actually did nothing, some people would actually say they could detect the difference in performance. That's the power of suggestion at work.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    You are 100 percent correct. Some people imagine performance and think they are giving their car TLC. There is actually research that shows running premium when not required, leads to excessive carbon build up. Hey but what the heck, it's their money and car.
  • chapaneechapanee Member Posts: 1
    My dom lite on the H civic 01 just went out for no reason. The light bulb is good.

    I also have the same problem with my CRV 2000

    Any one know the solution?
    Thanks
  • mthexumamthexuma Member Posts: 43
    In my reply to what you said about the civic:

    1) Engine noise - If you hear engine noise, your radio is not turned up load enough. I have a 2004 civic ex and have never heard engine noise *wink*

    2) Lower horsepower - I bet money that if you test drove the same three cars you menitioned and the car salesman told you that the civic had the most horsepower followed by the corolla then sentra, you would probably drive them and say you didn't like the other two for lack of power. It's in your head, I test drove them too. You can barely tell a difference. You also have to take in account the weight which you didn't.

    3)I love my civic and I think it has a just fine interior. Love the armrest, thank you!
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    Let's take a moment to look at the "facts" as published by Honda!

    The following information is taken from the 2003 Honda Accord Owner's Manual

    LAST PAGE OF THE MANUAL: ---- Titled: GASOLINE: ----" Unleaded gasoline, pump octane number of 86 or higher".

    PAGE 204 OF THE MANUAL: ---- Titled: GASOLINE: ----"Your Honda is designed to operate on unleaded gasoline with a pump octane number of 86 or higher. Use of a lower octane gasoline can cause a persistent heavy metallic rapping noise in the engine that can lead to mechanical damage".

    "We recommend gasoline containing detergent additives that help prevent fuel system and engine deposits. Using gasoline containing lead will damage your car's emissions controls. This contributes to air pollution".

    QUESTIONS: -----What does the phrase, ----"or higher" mean? ----Does it mean that you can burn 89, 92 or 93 octane fuel in the Honda engines without a problem? ----- Does it mean, that the "on-board computer / electronics" can compensate, and learn to deal with different octane fuels? ----Based on the above information, as published in the Honda manual, it seems that Honda has a concern with "fuel system and engine deposits", as part of the over all maintenance of the engine, when it recommends the use of gasoline containing detergents. By making this statement, are they also suggesting that when the quality of the fuel might be questionable, that some service be performed periodically to remove the carbon deposits from the engine?
  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    Since 87 octane is generally the lowest available, this shouldn't be a problem. So what's your point?
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    Just someting to think about and research on those "cold winter days" ahead!----------- You see, Honda DOES NOT make the statement that the owner of the vehicle cannot use a higher octane fuel, nor does Honda state that a high octane fuel will cause any damage to the engine, nor does Honda state that the "on board" computer can deal with a higher octane. They are VERY quiet, (silent), on this subject, but they have left the door open for experimentation by the owner. Where is a "Dino" when you need one!
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Do we really need to go down this road again? I know what the manual says, remember I own two Hondas. Most regular gas is 87 octane and Honda is stating use at least 86. You can run whatever octane you wish above 86 and the car will run fine. However, you will not gain the slightest bit of HP or mechanical benefit from running a higher grade of gas than the gas the car is designed to use, period. If the car will gain HP or needs premium to operate properly, the manual will tell you. In the case of 4 cylinder regular Civics and Accords there is NO benefit to running premium the way the car comes out of the factory. You can think and imagine all you want, but it would change that. Continue to pay extra for premium if you like and add a few extra bottles of Techron to keep your carbon build up under control. I've read the research and my dad tested gas for a living, so I consider my comments in this area more than just an opinion. You can continue believing in an old wive's tale or realize it's time to consider you may not have the facts straight. Kind of like on the fuel pump issue.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Member Posts: 764
    Don't you like to explore new possibilities? I am not fighting with you, I am simply quoting from the manufacturer, and looking at the engineering possibilities. It would be nice if we had access to an engineer from the Honda Corporation, so that we could ask these technical questions, and get information based on the system design principles. I would bet that there are some interesting operational principles of the on board computer system, that can have an influence on the daily operation of the vehicle. Fuel, engine timing and adaptive memory could be one of them!
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    There is no doubt in my mind that the engine computer can be tinkered with and more HP can be pulled out of the engine. There are exhaust mods, special air filters and fuel coolers; all kinds of stuff can be added to play with performance, but it can get costly. And without putting your car on a dyno, who really knows what works. I think you know me by now Gregory. I like to take care of my cars the most economically way possible with sound maintenance practices that I perform myself. I'm very cautious about doing anything to my cars unless I have read credible documentation about it. In many cases, people spend a lot of money on trying to increase the HP on their cars and they don't get their money's worth.

    I just saw a new car show where people write in and describe all the modifications that they have done to their cars and how much HP they think they are generating. The show picks one and comes to their house with a portable Dyno and tests the numbers. The episode I saw happen to be a guy with a Honda, who claimed to have spent over $65,000 to buy every gadget you could think of for the engine. He was sure it would test showing it made over 200 HP. I thought the guy was going to be physically sick when they showed him he was making about 160 HP.

    This was an extreme crazy case, but I like to get cars pretty much the way they come with a few exceptions. I think they run fine from the factory and gas is high enough without paying for premium. I buy aftermarket parts like starters, alternators, brake pads and rotors, because I can get them with lifetime warranties and they cost a whole lot less than factory parts. And as you know I keep cars for at least 12-15 years and I never buy an extended warranty. I do at least a years worth of research before I buy a car and I make sure I get the most reliable, safest, and cost effective car available that meets my needs at the time. That's what works for me anyway.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    To bad you don't live in South Florida...I could use your expertice when we shop for a new car in 2006. I think it'll come down to the Accord or the Mazda 6.

    The Sandman :-)
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    Thanks for the compliment. It's funny you should say that, I help my friends buy new and used cars all the time. I also do free house pre closing inspections for them. I have always been in to construction and cars. I enjoy researching and finding the good, bad & ugly. Builders and sellers hate to see me walk in the door, because they know it's going to cost them money. I don't miss much! As far as your two choices in cars, you really can't go wrong with either one. They are distinctly different, so I think personal preference will be the biggest factor. In other words, which cars feels the best for your driving style and which one do you like looking at better. The Mazda comes with a standard 4 year/50,000 miles warranty that is nice to have. Prioritize interior room, handlely, road comfort (seating & quietness), trunk space, engine power and crash scores. Then look at the what each car will cost you, configured the way you want it. Lastly, see how low you can actually purchase each car and commit to the car that is the best choice for you. Good luck!
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    For the wife, size will be important. She has the last generation Altima and loves the size, a bit larger than my Sentra, but smaller than the Camry. The Accord is a little larger than her Altima, as per our parking next to one at Walmart.
    She likes the looks of the 6, while I really want the Accord LX. We plan to wait on the 2006 model year, unless her current oil leak turns out to be a major repair.

    The Sandman :-)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Higher octane does not mean higher potential energy. Octane rating is what determines the ignition point. 87 octane gasoline will ignite at a lower temperature and pressure than a higher octane. Your octane ratings for the particular engine are determined by the compression ratio of the engine. If you have a car with 12:1 compression and you fill it with low octane (les than 94) and the car lacks the capability to adjust the timing then you will hear the "knock" Most new high compression engines do have the "fail safe" device to prevent knock. These systems either richen the fuel to air ratio or advance or retard timing.

    However, if you have a lower compression engine, such as are all of low perfomance Civic's including the Si, there is no benefit of the higher octane. The engine will not increase the compression ratio. At least not yet in a mass produced engine. There was work done at SAAB, before GM aquisition, on an engine with variable diplacement and comrpession.
    You don't need to be a Honda engineer to unread blue prints and make sense of them. The diagrams are available to the public, if the public knows where to look.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    I think the Mazda 6, Camry and Altima all look better than the Accord. If I were purely buying quality, functionality and best bang for my buck, I would buy an Accord. Although the rattles and transmission woes some people are having are disconcerting. I will have to say the rear end is just too butt ugly for me. I like the looks of my 2001 Accord much better.
  • bd21bd21 Member Posts: 437
    I am a meat and potatoes kind of guy and I must compliment you on your style. We both know what we are talking about, but you are far more eloquent and patient than I am. My hat's off to you.
  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    Rear end sure is butt-ugly. Once again, the Europeans have the upper hand, as their Accord is actually our Acura TSX - a nicely styled car. As there is no Acura brand outside the US and Canada, we have to contend with models that are only available as a premium brand and at a premium price. Oh, they also get the excellent Accord diesel - I'm moving!
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    My pennies worth on engine noise.....never heard it on the 3 Civics I have owned. Mostly due to aftermarket intake and exhaust mods. Only car I owned with good engine noise was an old Beemer with a 2.7l I-6.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    As far as engine noise goes there is good engine noise and bad engine noise. I think that most Hondas make good engine noise. Civic included. Our Si's sounded like a dream when you ran the revs up to 8,000. However, some people would dismiss even this good engine noise and bad and mark the car off of the list.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    If they don't like engine noise, they should buy some over sounddeadened box,and be done with it. The only time I ever heard any engine noise in my 86 Lincoln T/C, was at WOT, pushing the 115 governed limit. Other than that, it was so quiet, I occasionally hit the ignition, after it was already running. That had a FI 5.0.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I agree with you andy. I love the sound of an engine that likes to rev.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Anony, I really miss that straight six, in my old 325e. Talk about mechanical music! You know, it really adds to the experience of driving. These days so many people don't want to have an experience while they drive. They just want to go from here to there. Thank the Lord, some automanufacturers still make cars for people like us. Some of the cars are so quiet, even with manual trannies, that you can't even learn to shift them by ear. I learned to drive in a 78 Dodge van, had 318 w/4M on the floor. No tach, so you had to shift by ear. I loved that in the old Beemer, and 3 Civics I owned over the years!
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    The one good thing about our 03 Si and 04 Accord *both manuals* is that you don't have to look at the tach. The engine pretty much tells you what RPM you are at. That said, I wouldn't buy a car without a tach.

    I would have seriously considered a 2004 Civic EX 5-speed sedan when we bought our 04 Accord EX-L in July but my other half insisted on having factory XM. I'm not complaining tooooo loud because I love our Accord but the Civic would have been about $6000 less and would have gotten 5-10 MPG better.
  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    "I wouldn't buy a car without a tach."

    You're in luck, as I don't think any new cars come without a tach.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    "I wouldn't buy a car without a tach."

    You're in luck, as I don't think any new cars come without a tach.


    My girlfriend's 2002 Focus Se 5 spd came without a Tach. I offered to install one for her, but se says that she can drive by ear. Focus' ZTEC engine is a very noisy one, indeed.
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