Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

carshopper40 · July 2001

Thanks for the info JRCT9454. I checked on Consumer Reports and the difference in invoice price is more than the holdback. In fact, I was not factoring in the holdback which is another $338 bringing the difference in invoice price to $938. I also am including the destination charge in that difference. Any other thoughts? The last time I bought a car and I tried to stick to the CU invoice price, the dealer insisted it was wrong. I want to be able to use that price with confidence.

jrct9454 · July 2001

I like CU, read everything they publish, but their so-called dealer cost figures on all of their cars just will not work in the real world. You'll have to ask them - it could be regional advertising that the dealer has to pay, it could be various dealer incentives that CU thinks exist at any given time...who knows?

What you and the dealer settle on at any given moment is what the real market price is at that place in that time. I use the published invoice figures from Kelley or Edmunds, and yes, they have to include destination charges, since that is part of dealer cost. From there, it is between me and the dealer, and I have never walked away worried I have left money on the table. There are lots of ways to determine what is a fair retail price for any given car in any given market...if you think you can use CU's number to get to that place, then by all means, do so...but I can guarantee you every dealer will argue they are paying more for the car than CU says they are. I don't know who is right, but I do know what is a fair price in my market right now for a Honda Civic. Can't speak for your market...

ollman · July 2001

Just picked this car up and just want to get some input on the overall quality of this model, good and bad. Thanks

backy · July 2001

I owned an '88 Civic LX, pretty much the same car as the '91, and it was one of the best cars I've ever owned. A lot of fun to drive (5spd), smooth powertrain, very reliable. Was the first Civic generation with double wishbone suspension. Of course, I bought mine new and you're looking at a ten year old car, but if it's been well maintained and the body isn't rusting out yet, it should be a good car for you. Check to see if major parts like exhaust, brakes, struts, clutch (if applicable) have been replaced recently. Also make sure the timing belt was replaced on schedule.

redly_one · July 2001

Auto, Titanium Metallic with floor mats and mudgaurds.
Here's how they wrote it up:
List Price - $18150
Trade - $6000 (note, I've never been offered more than $3900 at any of 6 other dealers)
Tax and fees - $706.75

Out the door @ $12856.75...OR

The way I am trying to look at it, my trade was worth at very most $4000 (that's also what I owe on it).
So I got the car for $16150, out the door for $16856.75.

Is this good? Anyone get a better deal than that?

merlfred · July 2001

I called the local Mount Morris, PA Honda dealer about the two (2) Civic recalls I just received (the fuel pump wiring and gas line) and requested that I bring in the Civic for these recalls and the Radio recall from last March. The dealer told me that he would have to order a radio but I could bring the Civic in for the other two recalls next Thursday. I requested that he order the radio and I bring the Civic in once for all three recalls. He told me that I had to come in to fill our paper work it would be two trips or nothing. When I protested he asked where I bought the Civic. I told him that I bought it at a Honda Dealer and he it assumed it wasn't their dealership and that I should go to where I purchased the Civic. With that attitude I hung up and called Honda Consumer Affairs. They told me that the dealer can do what he wants, "they are independent businesses". I then told him that this is Honda's recall, for Honda and that HONDA should make arrangements to get my Civic repaired. He said he would call back, but, of course, he has not. Now you have the story.

isellhondas · July 2001

I hate that kind of a story. Shame on that dealer!

civic_cx_92 · July 2001

Honda ponders return to in-house tuner parts

MARK RECHTIN

Automotive News

LOS ANGELES-- After a 15-year absence, American Honda Motor Co. Inc. is considering a return to the $1 billion-a-year business of building performance aftermarket accessories.

Producing Honda-brand aftermarket items would enhance the automaker's credibility with young tuners, an important audience of image builders captured in this summer's smash movie about street racing, The Fast and the Furious.

The move also could lure many Honda owners who have been hesitant to modify their vehicles because of warranty concerns.

http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories0709/honda709.htm

isellhondas · July 2001

Saw it yesterday and am ashamed to admit I spent the money.

Interesting article though.

soundphan · July 2001

First off big thanks to this group and Edmunds. I did a lot of research and knew exactly what I wanted and what I would pay. ('01 EX - 16K+tax)

Anyway I was wondering if anyone else has had problems with CD's not playing all their tracks.

I have the single CD unit it plays fine but after the 8th song it goes back to track 1, even though there are 12 songs on the CD. It doesn't do it on all cd's just certian ones.

Any help is much appreciated and thanks again for helping me make a great choice! jcc

bordsource · July 2001

I got the radio replaced! And the recall performed! Now my car's pretty much fixed. Whew! What a long 9000 miles! I look forward to seeing a lot less of that dealer. They know my name now; that's not too good, IMO.

cheapowner · July 2001

Is there a way to turn off AC in Bi-Level or DEF mode in a 2001 Civic? Sometime I like to have air flow to the windshield or floor not for the purpose of clearing fog.

lxowner · July 2001

I have owned a 2001 Civic DX for 3 months now. I am relatively pleased with the performance of the car. I purchased this car because of Honda's history of making quality vehicles. My goal is to be happy with it for at least 10 years. I have been somewhat disappointed. The car provides a solid mechanical feel, but in other aspects feels cheap. The doors do not feel like they have any substance. There is substantial wind noise coming from the driver's and passenger's doors at highway speeds. There appear to be multiple places (dashboard, doors, console, etc) in the cabin where things are rattling. The paint seems to come off easily. I've bump into a few of my kids' ride-on toys, and the paint has come off. I also own a 1997 Subaru and occasionally do the same thing with it. No paint has come off of it. I have experience one thing that I don't know what it was. The other day I had the car out during a thunderstorm with heavy rain. During about a 30 minute drive I heard a loud noise that sounded like the car was dragging a piece of plastic or the exhaust had a hole in it. This happened on 3 separate occasions and I think I was downshifting at the time. I never heard the sound before and have not heard it since. I have not taken the car back to the dealership yet, but need to for the 2 recalls (fuel pump and filler hose). I wanted to see if anybody had similar experiences before I went to the dealer.

Thanks for any feedback.

hvtec2000 · July 2001

I have the same problem with that noise and I think the air intake suck in water from the street. At first I thought it was because of my after market air intake but it has the same problem when I put back the original air intake.
I am really mad about this car because it has so many recall and problems. My car has rattle noise like many of you post in here, noise from both front doors while driving on high way, suck in water from air intake during a normal rain, paint pealing from right front door, tires make so much noise while making turn at any corner on the street for 5mph, interior fading, gas gauge problem, rpm change every times I stop for traffic light, morning time is the worst because rpm goes up to 1500, losing power after 15000 miles, train mission won't shift until I hit up to 3000 rpm, and when I put in gear it will take about 2 second for it kick in. Car also shaking when turn on A/C. I think all civic 2001 are lemon car. (:<)

civic_cx_92 · July 2001

Great tips to increase your gas mileage.
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/truthabout/gas/howtosave1.tmpl

strong68 · July 2001

I have 1100 miles on my 2001 Civic LX. I plan on going on vacation and driving 1,000 miles round trip this next week. My question is, should I change my oil before I go? I haven't changed the oil since I only have 1,100 miles on the car, but the 1,000 highway miles worry me. Or should I just wait unitl I hit 3,500 and then take it in.

Thanks

hvtec2000 · July 2001

Don't need to change oil at all because it has only 1,100 miles on the car right now. Just don't push it over 68 miles per hour I/k. I changed my oil at 4,000 and the book recommend at 7,500 correct me if I'm wrong.

lxowner · July 2001

In my first sentence I mention that I have a Civic DX. It's an LX.

hvtec2000 - How did you determine it was the air intake causing the noise? Is there a remedy?

Did you check into anything to reduce the wind noise from the driver's & passenger's doors?

Did you mention any of your problems to your dealer?

Strong68 - I believe the owner's manual for an LX says to change the oil at 5,000 or 10,000 mile intervals depending on usage.

markd7 · July 2001

Mine's got about 1200 on it so far in a little over 2 months and I've had NO problems or complaints. The recalls have not been done yet (my daughter's home from college and she drives it most of the time)

Mine was made in Canada and I'm very curious as to whether some of the reported problems may have to do with where the cars were assembled.

newciv · July 2001

Mine was also made in Canada, and so far I have none of the problems/complaints that I hear others on this thread talking about. My car has been squeak/rattle free, no radio or paint problems, and I am now averaging 38 mpq. I am amazed I can go 425 miles between fill-ups !

Best car I ever bought !! I challenge anyone on this thread to come up with a better 2001 choice, obviously staying in the price range !!

NewCiv

sobers · July 2001

Don't change oil too soon !!
Keep it for atleast 5000 miles. Honda recommends 10,000 miles or 12 months for the oil changes. Eventhough I would not advise you to wait that longer, adopt 5 months - 5000 miles cycle which is more than reasonable....

First oil chnage: Read FAQ on Honda site, Honda wanrs to keep first oil for the recommended duration as it is special for engines initial NON-Regular wear patterns.......

gasguzz · July 2001

2k LX-Sedan. I'll be approaching my 4th oil change and realized the manual says to "replace the washer". Went to the dealer and they gave me 4 ALUMINUM flat washers (some 1/16" thk.). I recall my drain bolt had a "non-removable" copper washer (and never had this "replaceable" alum washer). Our 2k1 Nissan has the same no throw-away washer design (copper-washer/bolt) - the copper washer seals the pan. The Honda requisite puzzles me (since you cannot remove the copper washer without destroying it)... so there's the bolt-head/copper-washer/alum-washer to the oil pan??? Was there a design change not reflected in the manual (revising to the copper-washer/bolt) and deleting the throw-away alum washer? And yes, I am highly confident the copper-washer/drain-bolt is oem Honda.

civic2001lx · July 2001

It was my impression that when you get an oil change they replace this washer/bolt with a new one as it does in fact seal the pan. (I haven't had my first oil change yet, though)

mdriver · July 2001

I would suggest to anyone considering an 01 Civic to wait for an 02. It's common knowledge that first year models have problems as is obviously the case here. And you thought Honda could do no wrong. I suspect that the 02 will be much improved based on what Honda has learned from problems with the 01.

hvtec2000: The reason your tires squeal in turns is that they simply are cheap low performance tires (s-rated). There are not too many automakers left who have stooped so low as to put 185/70 14 sized tires on their cars.

newciv: OK I'm up to the challenge: I think the Protege ES excels in every way except fuel economy and maybe shifter quality. Yes you lose some $ on resale, but you start off with a heavy discount. Both have 5 star crash rating. The Civic LX would be competitive if only you could get ABS and maybe an upgraded wheel/tire package (not just throw on a 14" alloy onto the same tire as the dealer will offer to do at whatever price they feel like charging).

backy · July 2001

OK, here's another solid 2001 choice instead of Civic LX: Elantra GT, with leather interior, 4-wheel discs with ABS and traction control, moonroof, alloy wheels, more power (140 hp), 6-way driver's seat, quieter and smoother ride, strong safety features and crash results (based on sibling GLS), better styling (subjective of course), and better warranty for about the same MSRP (based on 4dr Civic LX 5spd with side air bags--since Elantra has side air bags standard). Plus the convenience of a hatchback. Also some evidence of improving quality (e.g. one recall so far for the Elantra GLS vs. at least three for Civic). Only disadvantages vs. Civic are Hyundai's historically lower resale value and lower mpg (but mpg is in line with models with comparable power). Since there's an entire Edmunds forum dedicated to Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra, I won't elaborate further but point to that forum for further info and commentary on both sides.

plume · July 2001

plume · July 2001

I am interested in buying a new Civic DX auto and live in the Chicagoland area. I am interested in dealer experience and what price was offered as dealer invoice.

I hate visiting these dealers and would love to narrow down the search.

Plume

plume · July 2001

I would love to hear whether anyone feels the EX is worth the extra money over the LX.

Thanks

Plume

mdriver · July 2001

The EX is worth the difference if you were to think about all of the items and consider how much they would cost individually. But you better not be taller than about 5'10" or 6' because of the intruding sunroof which takes 2" off headroom. Want an EX without a sunroof? Honda, kindly forces you to have one in the EX. I wouldn't consider the VTEC engine in the EX an upgrade though. The non-VTEC actually feels more responsive in lower revs. Those extra 12HP come on at the very top of the rpm scale, where most drivers never venture.

plume · July 2001

Thanks for the advice. I am 5.7" so height is not a concern for me. I was really interested in the ABS braking which the EX has - living in Chicago, winter can be tricky with the snow and ice. What do you think and do you think its worth adding the ABS to the LX option?

civic2001 · July 2001

I bought an EX back in May. The main reason was for the ABS. Even though I have never had to rely on this safety feature, I considered it as a necessary requirement. In addition, the one I bought also came with side air bags (not sure if it is an option on the LX). Civic is a rather small car, any extra protection ought to be worthwhile.

mdriver · July 2001

Alas, the good people at Honda thought it wise not to give you the option of adding ABS on the LX. But at least you can add side air bags so that when your non-ABS equipped Civic LX slides into another vehicle, you will be protected.

bordsource · July 2001

I changed mine at 5000 only because my daily commute is less than about 8 miles one way. I got my car on 12/1. For an entire month, the temperature here didn't get above freezing and in fact was somewhere in the teens. So obviously, driving less than 8 miles or so in 15 degree weather isn't exactly good on an engine. So I felt it necessary to go with the "severe" driving schedule and change mine at 5000. I'm sure there are those out there, however, that could very well do the 10,000. Highway miles aren't too stressful, ya know?

carguy62 · July 2001

ABS while it has its benefits also has its problems such as actually increasing stopping distance on certain surfaces. So your feeling that the non ABS Civic will slide into another vehicle may actually occur more with the ABS equipped one. If ABS is so important to a buyer they have to take what they can get with Honda (i.e. buy the EX) or they go to another manufacturer. You seem to want Honda to go the GM or Toyota route, a base car with a thousand options. I (and many others) prefer Honda's way, it may not be perfect for everyone but it works pretty well.

And regarding Mazda, nice cars but their resale is nonexistent. I see '00 626's with a V6 going for $10-12K. A similar '00 Accord would got for what, 18-20K?. Keep a car forever and it doesn't matter but even a huge discount up front for Mazda isn't going to negate the resale difference.

gasguzz · July 2001

"may actually occur more with the ABS equipped one". Now, how much of that is true on a current generation ABS system. Or, does that occur in 99% of daily driving conditions (how many of us here drive on the 1% or less rate). Isn't ABS's emphasis on ACCIDENT-AVOIDANCE (as in CONTROL in rain/snow and ergo stopping shorter). Mechanically (all else being equal), an ABS equipped car is superior to the same model without.
Sure, the Civic has its own "problems" when it comes to braking and stopping. One is the attribute of the smaller contact patch (with the stock tires). But, that really has nothing to do with the ABS itself.

laurakat · July 2001

I test drove a LX 5spd last Friday and really liked the car. The engine was smooth and the shifter was awsome. I'm probably going to decide on a new small car within the next month. I'm leaning toward the Civic, mainly because I use to own one and loved it (it was a 1990 model that I bought new and sold 6 years later w/ 130k miles on it. It held up extremely well). However, I need to test drive the competition (Protoge, Sentra, Elantra, Focus, etc) to see how they stack up.

My question is what have some of you paid for a 2001 LX 5spd? Edmunds list the TMV at $14123, but Carsdirect list their price at approx. $14400. I've also been keeping up on this forum and have heard of other deals below $14k. Have many of you been getting around the Edmund's TMV for this car?

Thanks in advance for your input!

mdriver · July 2001

Regardless of your views on ABS, Honda should still give the consumer the OPTION to have it on the LX. Why did they give the consumer the option to have side air bags only?? In the UK, Honda has the wisdom to make ABS standard on all Civic hatchbacks (even the base model).

laurakat: Make sure you drive a Hyundai Elantra before deciding. Although the Hyundai carries many negative connotations, it is remarkably competitive. Build quality is as good as a Civic, it is quieter, has a better ride, more power and many items not found on the Civic like: break-away mirrors (heated too). Cost is thousands less than a Civic (which should make you forget about the resale value) and the best feature is the 5yr/60mo b to b warranty. As a Honda fan, I have to admit that from initial driving impressions the Elantra is a better car than the new Civic.

jrct9454 · July 2001

Here in Northern Calif urban markets [SF and Sacramento areas], an LX manual transmission car, either sedan or coupe, would definitely be a sub-$14k deal...specifically on the order of $13.6-$13.8k, depending on all of the usual factors: size of inventory, time of month, number of dealers in the area, etc.

Carsdirect rarely has the lowest prices around these days, though again, remember the fundamental rule: ALL PRICING IS LOCAL. There is no such thing as a TMV that can be applied nationwide, as Edmunds tries to do...not to mention the market changes from one week to the next, if not daily.

laurakat · July 2001

Thanks for the replies!

mdriver: Actually, the Elantra is next on my list to test drive. I have to admit, I did have some negative connotations against Hyundai. My wife had a '90 Excel, which was a piece of sh** compared to my '90 civic. However, I've been impressed with the reviews the new Elantra has received. Also, I've been following the civic vs. elantra forum and have heard many convincing arguments.

jrct9454: It must be the area. I live in the Twin Cities metro area of MN. I've only checked out one dealer so far, but the civics seem to fly off the lot at a fairly good pace. I quess they are in greater demand here. Any input from other Twin Cities residents on what they paid?

Thanks.

newciv · July 2001

Take a look at the latest offset crash test results. I've been hearing lately by some of you on this thread how great the 2001 Hyundai Elantra is and how much better it is than the Honda Civic. Now, I'm no expert in Vehicle Safety, and I know neither are you guys, so why don't we agree to rely on the IIHS for their opinions:

http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_small.htm

It shows how much safety engineering went into the Elantra...... NONE ! Piss-poor structure, piss-poor occupant kinematics..... shall I continue ?

Oh, and by the way, look at what position the 2001 Civic resides.... Sure am glad I'm driving a Civic !!

NewCiv

gasguzz · July 2001

you started it so I'll give it my 2 cents (been biting my tongue). Yes, there are posters here lately on how great the Hyundai is.
Back in '98 I had a job which took me to Korea at the client's Hyundai Sonata line. Part of our deliverables was QA/QE and we were delighted that their job 1 was low-price before engineering (our project would be accepted in a 2-wk schedule and we could come home). One TGIF after 5 (and drinks), our be-friended took us to a research lab. There on the floor was a car in pieces and we asked why... "how you say, reverse-engineering" said the engineer - it was an Accord.
Not quite done he drove us back to our hotel in the company XG300 (here) - until it overheated. Oh, yes, the leather/wood and cd-changer was nice.

laurakat · July 2001

That was an eye-opener! I wasn't aware of the IIHS's off-set test score results on small cars. My mind is pretty well set on the new Civic since I liked the way it felt when I test-drove it. This may help confirm my decision. I will still look at the Elantra and other models just to keep an open mind.

backy · July 2001

While the Civic has clearly demonstrated its superiority in crash tests, let's at least stick to the facts here, OK? If you will read the IIHS test results on the '01 Elantra, you'll see that it received high marks for structural integrity--no expletives concerning the engineering of its structure are warranted. The problems that the test uncovered were a late-deploying driver's air bag on two of three tests, which allowed the driver's head to hit the steering wheel, and a driver's seat track that allowed the seat to move forward a few inches, causing "injury" to the dummy's leg and foot. These are definitely issues that Hyundai needs to address, but they can be dealt with fairly easily--including a recall to take care of existing cars. The one thing that would be difficult if not impossible to fix without a full redesign, structural integrity, held up well, and demostrates that Hyundai did put considerable effort into the saftey engineering of the body structure but needs more attention to things like air bag sensors and seat tracks. Interestingly, this is the second problem the Elantra has had with air bags, along with the early recall on side airbags--which performed flawlessly in the IIHS tests, proving air bag problems can be fixed.

If people stop buying Elantras until the saftey problems are fixed, so much the better... a little extra incentive to Hyundai to get it done.

plume · July 2001

I have now decided that the EX is worth the extra cost. I am trading a vehicle and received a deal $100 over invoice but I believe I am being screwed on the trade. How do you do into a dealer to get a value on the trade while keeping the negotiation of the vehicle cost separate? It seems that the two are bound and this works to the dealers advantage. I know what I believe I should get on the trade so I can shoot for this. Any ideas?

backy · July 2001

Simple solution: take the dealer's offer of $100 over invoice and sell your old car yourself, if you believe it's worth a lot more than the dealer is offering. One thing to consider is the sales tax; in some states (like MN), the sales tax on the new car is calculated after deducting the trade-in value. So maybe you could save a few hundred bucks on tax by trading it in.

civic2001 · July 2001

Without trade-in, I think it is a fair price for an EX at $100 over invoice (or lower). This way, the dealer's profit will be $100 plus the 2% holdback.

If you don't mind the trouble of selling the existing car yourself, you can usually get a better price.

gasguzz · July 2001

Of course the trade and car price are tied together - to the bottom line (profit). A common scenario would be to "take off" from the new car price and "regain" on the trade. The question is, will they retain the $100 over invoice deal if you sell the trade privately (probably not). Put it on a spreadsheet and play with the numbers (including tax considerations, their financing points or yours, etc.) - "numbers cannot lie". Accept the results (dealers are due profits too) and enjoy, or walk out.
Good luck.

mdriver · July 2001

The Elantra is heavier than the Civic by several hundred pounds. If an Elantra hits a Civic, the Civic's good crash rating will be offset to some degree by its light weight. No crash test takes the weight of the vehicle into account since the cars are crashed into fixed objects. The only way the Civic can maintain its good rating in the real world, is if it crashes into another Civic or a tree.

I'm not a Hyundai fan in general, but the Elantra is very impressive in areas that used to be dominated by the Civic, namely: ride, refinement and build quality. Why doesn't Honda offer anything more than the 3yr/36k warranty? Don't tell me that you don't need it on a Honda. Toyota offers a 5yr/60k warranty on its powertrain, but no one would argue that their engines are so unreliable that you need such extended coverage.

civic_cx_92 · July 2001

I agree with your first paragraph, absolutely the heavier vehicle survives due to momentum transfer.

The Elantra airbag failed to fully deploy, that could be fatal.

There is a reason for the Toyota extended warranty.
(no one?) I'm arguing my dad's Toyota Tacoma V-6 had a bad head gasket at 48k miles. My dad was going to pay for it all ($1,200) but my sibling wrote a letter to Toyota and got fully refunded.
There is a TSB on NHTSA web site

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy.cfm

type in Toyota Truck, Tacoma, 1995
Finally I'm saving up for the 2002 Civic LX sedan for my growing family.

plume · July 2001

Thanks for all the input. While I can probably get a little more on a private sale, its not worth the hassle and cost to place an ad. The point about sales tax is a valid one and in IL I am almost sure the tax on the new vehicle is based on the net after the trade.

I also do not think the $100 over invoice will stand if the trade is removed.

I will let you all know what happens because I will be making a decision within the next week.

Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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