Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

altair4 · March 2004

Any car dealer can call a car "Certified." It's just a name.

You have to research what that really means to you as the consumer. Theoretically, it means that a vehicle passed whatever inspection list that dealer has. In reality, it might not mean a thing to you unless there's a warranty that goes with it. Then you need to determine what that warranty means...where can you get repairs done (are you locked into getting service for a VW at a non-VW dealership), do you pay and get reimbursed or does it mean nothing out-of-pocket, etc.

Regarding the coil pack question...I believe that Passats with a build date from August 2002 forward had the newer "J" series coil packs. Are they defect-free? I'd prefer to describe them as "more defect-free." There's been some reports of cars with the J series having some issues, but the incidence rate seems to be greatly reduced. YMMV.

You can verify the change by looking at the coil pack itself, by removing the top engine cover (three quarter turn fasteners hold it down). If the part number ends in an H, they haven't been changed yet. On the other hand, since there is a recall, if they haven't been changed, you could simply set an appt with a VW dealer and get them replaced.

I wonder why a 2003 model is already on the used car market. I have no idea about the pricing...check elsewhere on Edmunds.

wwest · March 2004

We were discussing the hazards of FWD engine braking this morning and a Passat owner stated that he was surprised to find that his MY2000 FWD Passat doesn't. He said the engine RPM stays just about were it should be for that roadspeed, with no evident engine braking, with the gas pedal lifted completely and the driveline engaged.

My assumption was that VW is actively preventing front wheel engine braking by feeding the engine just enough gas to match the RPM with roadspeed. .

But he says that in this particular circumstance the momentary MPG indicates "---", which he understands to mean there NO fuel flow at all to the engine.

There are, seemingly, a myriad of solutions out there for avoiding the potential for loss of control due to engine braking in FWD vehicle's. Cadillac's over-running clutch being just one, but does anyone know for sure if this is the way VW has chosen?

georgek · March 2004

This should happen ONLY when cruise control is engaged. I routinely use the tip manual mode for engine-braking with my 2000 1.8T wagon. My driving is about 50% interstate, 30%rural blacktop and 20% city/suburban. The rear discs and pads were replaced at 105K miles; the front ones still are those that came with the car 119,000 miles ago.

p.s. - other than one pollution control system repair, the car has required only routine maintenance and the replacing of light bulbs and wiper blades.

altair4 · March 2004

"We were discussing the hazards of FWD engine braking this morning..."

"There are, seemingly, a myriad of solutions out there for avoiding the potential for loss of control due to engine braking in FWD vehicle's."

Having driven FWD cars since the mid 1970's in hilly terrain with frequent use of engine braking, I have no idea what you are talking about.

markcincinnati · March 2004

I drove my first Audi Fox, a 1976 model and bought my first one in 1977 (a 1978 Audi 5000), I have owned VW Jettas, VW Quantums, BMW 325ix, Audi front and all wheel drive vehicles.

With respect to engine braking, I believe I know what it is, and believe that every car I have ever owned could be "downshifted" (either auto or manual) to take advantage of some engine braking.

I am certain that there must be some issue that this discussion pertains to, but I too "have no idea what is being talked about" with respect to any dangers associated with FWD engine braking.

wwest · March 2004

The issue we were discussing concerned a Passat 1.8T with manual transmission and the circumstance of simply lifting the gas pedal entirely at 50MPH and experiencing NO engine braking whatsoever and the engine remaining at roadspeed RPM.

FWD hazards:

With RWD on a slippery roadbed I would not hesitate to downshift to use engine braking for slowing the car rather than the brakes which would apply the braking predominantly to the front and thereby threaten loss of directional control.

If the rear should start to come around in that circumstance I still have traction in reserve at the front to recover directional stability.

With FWD I wouldn't dare try such a manuver (engine braking at the front)for fear of complete loss of control. Lifting the gas pedal on a FWD vehicle can, and often does, have the same result.

markcincinnati · March 2004

Let's compare the Front Wheel Drive, All Wheel Drive and Rear Wheel drive "physics."

Here is what happens when you lift off the gas in a Passat FWD (manual transmission, but I assume the effect is similar in an automatic, but perhaps not as pronounced):

What engine braking there may be causes a slight "load shift" toward the front axle. There is, therefore, a slight downward force applied to the front tires -- theoretically, at least, the tendancy to "understeer" is reduced somewhat by this load shift.

This also happens when you press on the brake pedal, but the effect of course is more deliberate and generally more controlled since you are actuating all four wheel's brakes.

The process of explaining it takes far longer than the actual physics, but if you pretend for a moment that this all happens in s-l-o-w motion here goes: 1.) lift off gas pedal (and either do or do not press brake pedal); 2.) wait for the load to shift, which applies downward pressure on front end (all parts: tires, wheels, springs, struts, etc.) -- the net of this on a front wheel or all wheel drive car (Torsen, Haldex equipped, etc.) is an IMPROVED ability to CONTROL the vehicle. With a stictly RWD vehicle the process and the physics are the same, but remember, when the load shiftw toward the front end, it shifts away from the back end (or the driven wheels).

The effect on a Rear Wheel Drive vehicle is for an increase in the probability that the rear end will "fishtail." Generally speaking this is an RWD trait, not a FWD or AWD or 4WD trait.

This effect (the fishtailing of an RWD vehicle) is of course exacerbated (and at slower speeds) on rain, snow and ice, but it is there even on completely dry pavement (it is just that the "fishtailing" effect -- a.k.a. oversteer happens at a much higher speed on dry pavement).

This effect is most easily demonstrated after a snowfall on a flat, clean parking lot. Take your Passat FWD out on the parking lot, accelerate to a safe foward speed (safe is a relative term, relative to the nearest object that you might hit, that is) and either poke the brakes and or let off the accelerator, then a split second later turn the steering wheel (you can try this with and without an accompanying poke back on the accelerator to "feel and test" the differences).

The Passat FWD when pressed to do the above will more than likely simply "plow" but continue moving mostly forward (it will slightly to greatly understeer, that is). It will NOT, without a pull on the emergency brake, "spin a donut."

Try the same thing with a BMW 3 series (not x) -- accelerate to a safe speed, take your foot off the gas, poke (or don't) the brake pedal just a tad and turn the wheel -- the RWD Bimmer will "do at least a 180" and if slickness, speed and free range are adequate the car will completely do a 360.

Most people under such circumstances find the Passat's behavior something that they can control -- the "counter steering" required to counter act the fish tailing of the RWD vehicle is counter intuitive for most people and hence they "spin out."

Understeer is not a good thing, don't get me wrong, but most folks consider it to be "benign" because what happens in the FWD understeering Passat (to name one) is that the wheel is turned left and the car makes a gradual left turn (since it is understeering or responding less to the turn of the wheel than is "expected"). As the car, the Passat in this case, continues to slow, or there is additional weight transfer to the front end (the "load shift") the prominence of the understeering reduces. It is almost "magic" when it happens.

Conversely on a rear wheel drive car, once a spinout is started, depending in part on the speed of the spin, of course, the driver may find him/herself worsening the effect of the oversteer by wildly overcorrecting the steering input, sending the car further into the spin, especially if the accerator is pressed either accidentally or purposefully.

Rear Wheel Drive, until the advent of traction control, pitch and yaw control and ABS was for many folks (especially young drivers) great fun to drive when "in control" and difficult to REGAIN control in when something (such as hitting a slick patch or overbraking) happened that caused the rear to front load shift -- which, in a rear wheel drive car, leads to a potential loss of control (most pronounced on low coefficient of friction surfaces).

RWD is fun fun fun -- donuts R us -- but FWD is, for the majority of the driving public, far safer. Then, of course, for the ultimate, AWD which can be made to understeer and oversteer -- and if it is designed (as VW does) to understeer first, it also retains the "ease" of getting back under control if the driver is unfortunate enough to find that he/she has had a "stupid attack" which generally means driving the car too fast for the friction available.

In order of safety and performance: AWD, FWD, RWD -- in order of sheer performance it is a toss up RWD, AWD and FWD or AWD, RWD and FWD.

Most of us have to live in a world where we want performance but must drive the safest and best performing car. A plain ol FWD Passat would be my choice, if I couldn't get 4Motion. AWD forever, RWD -- keep it on the track, driven by the pros.

But that just the way I was taught -- at the Audi Ice Driving school in Seefeld Austria (featuring RWD Bimmers, FWD and AWD Audis. . . .)

Drive it like you WANT to live.

markcincinnati · March 2004

I have now re-read post #6920 and I can only assume it has a typo or so:

"FWD hazards: --note this should read RWD charactersitics (or hazards if you will)

With RWD on a slippery roadbed I would not hesitate to downshift to use engine braking for slowing the car rather than the brakes which would apply the braking predominantly to the front and thereby threaten loss of directional control.

-- note literally speaking this is exactly the opposite of what would happen with RWD but describes perfectly what will happen with FWD since the load shift is to the front which will actually INCREASE directional control since more weight is placed on the front end.

If the rear should start to come around in that circumstance [RWD if I follow the previous paragraph as it was originally written] (which it could in a RWD car but is unlikely in a FWD car) I still have traction in reserve at the front to recover directional stability. -- note there is some accuracy here, for the traction is INCREASED in a FWD vehicle for the driving wheels; indeed in an RWD vehicle the traction is DECREASED over the driven wheels and if any acceleration is attempted the "fishtailing" (oversteering) will likewise increase.

With FWD I wouldn't dare try such a manuver (engine braking at the front)for fear of complete loss of control. -- note this, technically should read with RWD I wouldn't dare try such a maneuver. . . Lifting the gas pedal on a FWD vehicle can, and often does, have the same result. -- note I am unclear if this means "never mind the previous statements" or not -- but it would be acurate to say that with a Rear Wheel Drive vehicle it is possible to induce oversteer but it is, with most contemporary FWD vehicles (and in this instance since we are on the Passat board, VW's), rare to "fishtail."

Steering with the throttle is all but impossible with FWD cars -- hence the reason so many [race drivers] prefer RWD due to its ability to be induced into a power slide and the arc of a curve dictated by the skillful manipulation of the steering wheel and the accelerator pedal.

Although the Infinity and Nissan commercials for their FWD cars -- sliding sideways in the desert to the screams of the Who singing "Wont' Get Fooled Again" -- notwithstanding, generally such stunts are far easier to initiate with RWD cars or, in the case of Audi's and some VW's with AWD cars.

Although I have clearly not made any attempt to hide my issues with RWD cars, and I would, for reasons I have cited, generally prefer FWD over RWD, I overwhelmingly disdain both FWD and RWD as "half a loaf." I prefer and would urge you to make your own comparisons to see if you too don't come to the same conclusions -- AWD is more than twice as good as the best RWD or FWD vehicle.

Of course, as always, these are just my humble opinions -- I could be wrong, but this time I have phsyics (and Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Volkswagen and Volvo's engineers) on my side.

RWD is, to carry the point from the sublime to the ridiculous, "unsafe at any speed" -- or was that a Corvair? (BTW the reason the Corvair, a rear wheel drive, rear engined car, was "unsafe" at any speed -- was its propensity to OVERSTEER). When possible, most manufacturers do seem to attempt to engineer in UNDERSTEER -- "credit" the lawyers with this or blame your high school driver's ed for not teaching "high performance" (not hot rodding) driving skills.

We live in an era where we first attempt (in this order) to "enforce" traffic laws, "engineer" cars to be as immune as possible to the laws of physics and finally "educate" drivers to know how to drive defensively -- we spend a paltry amount of time on that last "e."

pat · March 2004

FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD would be a really great place to continue this line of conversation so that we can let this discussion get back to the Passat.

:-)

bubsthechub · March 2004

i currently own a 98 accord and have had no problems at all with it and have enjoyed driving it. my mother just totaled her camry this week and so i will be giving her my accord.

after doing some research, i believe the passat will be the vehicle i purchase next. i will be test driving it within the next day or two. there are many things i like about the passat. however, i have some concerns about it's reliability. it seems like owners love the passats handling, the sturdy body and quality materials used to make the car. however, i've heard of others having multiple electrical problems. so just how reliable is a passat?

also, this is my first german car so it's adding to my hesitation. my family has always purchased japanese cars and they definitely have been reliable. any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

altair4 · March 2004

...for even responding. By the way, looks you and I had similar starts with FWD. My first drive was an Audi Fox wagon and first car owned was the 1976 VW Dasher (Passat in Europe). Eh, in a little over 25 years, I went from B1 to B5.5. In deference to Pat, our Host, isn't that ESP, ASR and ABS a great combo in the Passat? ;->

markcincinnati · March 2004

. . .run don't walk away from ANY European car.

If performance, control, safety "fun" to drive and a feeling that the car was chisled out of a block of solid steel are at least 51% of your concerns, you may find a German (or other European car) will make you leave the Japanese cars and never look back.

If you don't like to "mess with" or "tweak" or "mod" your cars, you may find yourself turned off by the "personality" of the German cars -- I don't care who makes them.

Recent "XYZ" surveys have lowered the ratings and reviews of many European cars in terms of reliability -- theses cars are, generally, becoming more complicated technically and the German engineers (and the Swedes, etc.) continue to raise the performance bar. Perhaps this is one of the reasons for the apparent drop in reliability.

I don't like to trade one for the other, but when forced to enumerate the importance of features, options, etc., there is only one #1 and for me it is a combination of the safest and highest performing car at a given price point. The Germans (for me) ace this one. I believe the German cars performance is reliable -- sometimes though, parts fail and visits to the dealer are required.

Some claim this "never" happens with Japanese cars, beats me. This has NOT been my observation of my friends who have Japanese cars -- but almost all the folks I know and work with have American or European cars (Audis, VWs, BMWs and Volvos).

Write down what is your number 1,2,3 etc. If Reliability is in your top 2, I would assume you will be somewhat to a lot displeased with the choice of a VW, or Volvo for that matter.

wwest · March 2004

With most cars in this circumstance, 50MPH, throttle lift, driveline engaged, manual transmission, one would expect the RPM to drop significantly since the driven wheels now must "drive" the engine.

The puzzle was that my friend's Passat's engine RPM didn't drop at all and additionally he said he feels no engine braking effects.

That doesn't seem to make sense unless VW is keeping the E-throttle open just enough to maintain RPM equivalent to roadspeed. And the only reason for that that we could think of was to prevent potential loss of control due to front engine braking.

Adding to our confusion is the fact that the on-board computer starts indicating "---" in this "coasting" circumstance. Up until now my friend thought that indication meant the fuel flow was completely shut off.

The question was: "does anyone out there really know how this is happening?"

wwest · March 2004

cincinnati over on FWD vs RWD vs AWD.

ivan_99 · March 2004

The XYZ survey...is it the same XYZ survey I've read.

I've read that the European reliability is rated below the American reliability. But is has NOT gone down, the American has gone up (so has the European, but not by as large a margin).

The passat is still TIED with the Accord by CR (if anybody cares about CR)

arjay1 · March 2004

I have a 1.8t with the tip/automatic. When in full automatic mode and at highway speed, if I lift the throttle my rpm's decline and the car slows as you would expect from engine breaking.
Is your freind saying that if he/she lifts the throttle they don't ever slow unless hitting the breaks? If that is the case there is something wrong. Or as Mark pointed out, they have the cruise control on.

jrct9454 · March 2004

...Let's assume you mean "brakes" and "braking", and I too am puzzled about why I should be afraid of engine braking in front-drive cars. I've driven 50 different cars over the past 40+ years with both FWD and RWD, including some very fast back-road driving, off-camber turns, sharp downhillers, and have never thought twice about engine-braking as anything but a natural adjunct to the car's service brakes, no matter what I'm driving. This is a new one on me...

markcincinnati · March 2004

. . .for a further discussion of this check messages #6921 and #6922 -- FWD, RWD and AWD. Passat's come in auto and stick versions and FWD and AWD versions -- you have virtually nothing to be concerned about in a Passat, in terms of "being afraid of engine braking" in an FWD version or AWD version auto or stick.

The posts are long, I didn't have time to write short ones (w/hommage to Mark Twain).

wwest · March 2004

Really only pertain to adverse roadbed conditions, say ice or packed snow.

All of the VSC, PSM, traction systems that I know of will apply moderate braking to the rear wheel(s) upon detecting an understeering condition.

If the vehicle is understeering then the designers of these systems MUST assume it is doing so as a result of insufficient traction at the front, so it would clearly be hazardous in those circumstances to brake either or both front wheels.

So it should be obvious to anyone that our natural instincts play against us in a FWD vehicle. What would most people do the instant the realization hits that the vehicle is not following the steering direction?

Let off the gas, of course!

On a RWD vehicle that natural action will almost always be helpful, in a FWD vehicle it will help you end up in the ditch.

wwest · March 2004

The chicken or the egg?

"Load shift" or "engine braking".

But Mark is actually correct.

If there is enough roadbed traction for the front tires then engine braking will create a "load shift", unweighting the rear and weighting the front.

But if the FWD vehicle is already understeering that is a clear sign of insufficient traction for the lateral, steering, forces already being applied. So it seems unlikely to me that the added traction needed for the engine braking to have the desired effect simply isn't likely to be available.

Obviously then the more slippery the roadbed surface is the more hazardous FWD or front biased AWD becomes in comparison to RWD or rear biased AWD.

jwg7 · March 2004

Hi All - I'm new to this board and would appreciate any feedback / insight you can share. I just purchased a 99 GLS 1.8T - my first turbo, first VW, first step away from the Japanese car security blanket I have been using all these years... I needed to replace my old Honda and wanted to keep a lid on the cost so decided to go with a used Passat. It's got 70,000 miles and is in great shape inside and out. Before I purchased it I noticed what looked like sludge on the inside of the oil filler cap but was not too concerned because I had seen all of the maintenance records and the oil was changed regularly. Is this normal/common for the 1.8T - perhaps a result of the heat? I have cleaned the cap but upon closer inspection with a flashlight I can see some nasty stuff inside the cover and on the camshaft. Is there a cleaner that can be used (motor flush) or is that a bad idea? Any recommendations on how to remedy the mess inside the engine? Thanks in advance for any help.

wwest · March 2004

she said...

njpassat · March 2004

I'm very pleased with VWs and the information that is shared on the VW chats having been on the Jetta site since I purchased an '01 2.0 five speed. I now also have an'03 Passat 1.8T with the automatic/tiptronic. The Passat has just under 5k at this point. This weekend I took a trip that was approx. 300 miles each way. On at least two or three occasions during this trip I heard/felt something very strange from the transmission. It usually happened while traveling somewhere around 30-40 mph and I was trying to accelerate. When the transmission attempted to downshift ( it sounded like it was jumping down at least two gears) there was a fairly loud bang and it jarred the whole car. Normally this car runs very smooth in the automatic mode and this was very unusual. I have been driving this car long enough to "get the feel" of the transmission and I know how it behaves. I'm trying to find out if anyone else has run into this on the 1.8T automatic. It obviously doens't happen that often but when it does you can't miss it. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

arjay1 · March 2004

That does not sound normal. I have the 1.8t with tip and have not felt anything like that. The downshifting of two gears would be correct. If you have it in drive, at 40 mph you will be in 5th gear on a level surface. Push the accelerator down and you will downshift two or even three gears. However, the loud and hard thump does not sound normal. I don't get anything like that.
R. J.

arjay1 · March 2004

We hear from all the new Passat owners but those of us with more miles tend to stop posting as the newness wears off.
In addition, we get so many people asking about the long term reliability of the Passat I thought this may be of interest to some. Here is an update on my 2000 1.8t/tip as I just turned 60,000 miles this weekend.
I have averaged 27.6mpg over these miles. This has been tracked in Excel recording the mileage, gallons and cost from every fill-up since day one.
My only repairs to date have been a couple of headlight bulbs and rear brake pads. I did replace the mass air flow sensor at a cost of $399 but it looks like I will be reimbursed by VW since they extended their warranty coverage of that part due to a high failure rate.
My tires are still original and have 10,000 to 20,000 miles of life left. All else has been good. I have some squeaks from the B pillar that seem to be from flex in the body but they are not anything that would cause me to complain.
This is my 3rd VW and they have all been positive experiences. My only complaint is that it sure looks like VW is trying to go up market and I may not be willing to pay the dollars they will ask for a new VW in the future. But then again, in six or seven years a used Phaeton may be in my budget!

powerman1 · March 2004

I am about to purchase a Passat and came across these two deals. Please help me make a decision. 1) 2002 GLS 1.8T 5-speed Passat, 14K miles, leather, cold weather, moonroof, monsoon = $18K, OR 2) 2001 1/2 GLS V6 5-speed Passat, 24K miles, leather, cold weather, moonroof, wood trim, monsoon = $17500. Both have alloy wheels and a warranty until 60K miles. Which one would you choose ?

steves1220 · March 2004

We are current Volvo owners, but my S60 has been such a disappointment that it will soon be going by the way side - it is really an awful car all around. I am looking at a wagon, and given the experience with my current Volvo, don't know if I want to take a chance on their wagon.

So, what do you think of the Passat Wagon. Safety, functional, comfortable, reliable, longevity, etc. comments welcome. Would you buy it again or not?

bjbird2 · March 2004

The Passat wagon is one of the safest vehicles you can buy, and a joy to drive. Check the April 04' Consumer Reports, it's top-rated in all categories except reliability.
Reliability seems to be a risk with any European car these days.

altair4 · March 2004

I'm at 12K on our Tip, and have never experienced the sound or behavior that you describe.

profvh · March 2004

In response to your question about the Passat wagon, we own a 2002 GLS Wagon with 1.8T with
Tiptronic. Has leather option. Now has 25,000
troublefree miles. Only problem was a replaced
headlight. Did have ignition coils replaced even
tho we had no problem.

So far this has been an outstanding car. It is
fun to drive, fairly economical, has a well-
balanced steering and is a good hauler, beating
several smaller SUV's. The fit and finish is
outstanding. I have not been able to find a single blemish or flaw in assembly. It would seem
to me that your main question is: a V6 or I4
engine. The 1.8T is peppy but not as quiet as a
V6 or as smooth at low speeds, which is a normal
characteristic of a 4 cylinder car. The I4
probably is better with a manual tranny as there
is a little turbo lag when starting out with the
I-8. Knowing what I know now I would probably
buy the V6, yet I don't regret the 1.8T engine
choice.

I would recommend the leather option on the GLS
as the GLX has it standard. It is a great car
it is my first VW and I hope to continue to run
one VW along side my other German favorite, a
MB. Good luck.

dudleyr · March 2004

My father has a 2000 Passat wagon with a 1.8t and manual tranny. It has 106,000 miles on it and has averaged just over 30 mpg. The brakes and clutch are still original, and there have been no major repairs.

quan69 · March 2004

Everything else being equal (condition of paint, upholstery, etc.) and if you like driving both cars equally, I'd get the 1.8T. You can chip it and get ~207 HP. With the V6, you only get 190 HP. The V6 also leaks more oil and has lower MPG.

If you go with the 1.8T, make sure that the coil packs have been replaced.

gbad · March 2004

Ladies and Gents,

I have a 2003 W8 and I cracked my windshield. The quotes that I am getting range around 300, but the dealer wants to charge 500 for VW German glass. Are there any advantages going with German glass except for paying extra....

Thanx

George
Georgeo

fish8 · March 2004

I, personally, do not see any benefit in purchasing VW "German" glass. It is probably the same exact windshield as any other windshield. The only benefit I can see is that VW may be more familiar with installing the windshield on a new W8.

altair4 · March 2004

Wasn't long ago that someone posted (maybe not here) that there wasn't an aftermarket glass for the Passat. I can't recall the OEM manufacturer of the glass...I'd check for the name on the windshield then call the glass companies and see who manufactures what they are offering. May be the same stuff. Worth a couple of calls, IMO.

markcincinnati · March 2004

Same thing on my Audi -- I had the windshield put in at the dealer...the INSURANCE company negotiated the final price, but it was less than if I had had to pay for it OOP.

In fact, for winshield replacment, there was, oddly, no deduct!

Woo Woo!

machaan · March 2004

Can someone compare the two in
1) Summer
2) Winter
3) Longevity

Is black leatherette wrong option in summer?

chchoi · March 2004

I need to replace my front windshield for my GLX. It has rain sensor. I called dealer and they don't do replacement. They will out source to other glass company. They have OEM glass, but there is no VW logo on it. It has SECURIT on it. And the glass company claim it is the same. However I insist to have VW logo on it and it is very difficult to find it. Anyone have the same experience?

fish8 · March 2004

Does VW offer the leatherette option? I thought that was a BMW offering.

markcincinnati · March 2004

. . .the quality of materials, leather or plastic or anything in between probably means more than the material itself.

My buddy's Audi A4 with "leather-ette" and heated seats is fine year round -- and if I didn't know better, I probably would have little to comment on.

The leather-ette is perforated, leather is not (at least it didn't used to be on most Audis and VW's) -- any argument that the plastic doesn't breathe and is therefore inferior to leather is probably mostly mitigated by the perforation.

If you sit your bare legs down on a leather or plastic seat that has been out in the sun all day, you are in for a "hot thigh."

Leather, usually, smells nicer. Plastic is easier to get a milk shake out of, but the current crop of premo leathers is pretty easy to clean.

Leather, over time, will take on a special look and feel since it is a natural material, plastic may or may not take on a different look and feel, but even the best plastic doesn't look "natural" after 10 years.

Where was I, oh yea -- it is a personal preference thing in most of the European cars since they seem to use high quality leather and plastic (leather-ette) materials.

Plastic is almost always less money. Sometimes there is an option for "leather seating surfaces" which means that virtually every thing you touch is leather, but the areas you see but rarely touch are plastic -- some would say the "best of both worlds" there.

Shhh, don't tell anyone I prefer the cloth seating surfaces -- but they are almost uncleanable and I have two Shelties -- and pet hair on cloth seats (not to mention the milk shake or coffee or cola or french fry) is a major vacuum job in waiting. I have, since 1991, given up on cloth seats and gone to leather -- personal preference. The lease payment difference is diminimus with plastic or leather, so I choose leather.

altair4 · March 2004

You wrote:
"Sometimes there is an option for "leather seating surfaces" which means that virtually every thing you touch is leather, but the areas you see but rarely touch are plastic -- some would say the "best of both worlds" there."

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that most, if not all, cars that use leather fit in this category. I'm pretty sure that the Passat fits this description.

HCLEMO · March 2004

I need to replace my VW Cabrio (not a bad car, but the drivetrain has been a recurring problem for me) with a commuter car for use between Richmond and Fredericksburg, VA on I-95. I need something that will do well on icy, snowy parking lots and local roads, since they don't seem to get treated as quickly as I 95 in the winter. The Passat appeals to me given Consumer Reports recommendation on safety.

I test drove the 2004 Passat sedan with 1.8T, manual, 4 motion. I quite liked this car and felt it drove much better than my wife's 1997 Subaru outback with 2.5 and manual and AWD.

I am wondering whether I should wait for the 2005 Subaru Legacy which will have side curtain airbags but what seems to be a similar drive train as my wife's 97 Subaru.

My questions about VW reliability include:

1. Has VW finally fixed the ignition coil problem?
2. Can I expect 120K out of the 1.8T (assuming I religiously follow VW recs on maintenance)? Consumer Reports rates 1.8T VWs as below average reliability (I think most of this is due to the ignition coil)
3. Is 4-motion as bullet proof as AWD on Subarus?

Thanks.

markcincinnati · March 2004

I have noticed in some configurators (and I am not limiting this to VW or Audi or BMW etc) they SOMETIMES say "leather seating surfaces" and sometimes there is another option that uses the word leather.

When a specific mention is made of LEATHER SEATING SURFACES I assume that your back and butt get leather, period.

If the option list offers another -- more expensive -- leather option and does NOT specifically say leather seating surfaces, I, for right or for wrong, assume that the whole seat is leather covered.

Frankly, the quality of leather and leather surfaces and the ability to virtually seamlessly (no pun intended) be put together has made me care not if the whole thing is leather or some combination. Just don't lie to me.

So, if the Passat, for example offers cloth, vinyl, leather and leather seating surfaces as distinct options, I would assume that the leather means ALL leather.

I could be wrong.

probang · March 2004

Interestingly, before I took possession of my W8 last April (shipped in from port), the dealer found a crack in the windshield. To replace it they had to order it from somewhere, but actually subcontracted to a local auto glass repair company to do the installation.

merckx · March 2004

I've got a 2001 Passat GLS i bought new three years ago. About six weeks ago,the air bag light wouldn't go out. Because the car has such low milage,21,000 miles now,VW paid for the repair. Now,six weeks later,the air bag light stayed on again today. I'm pretty confident VW will fix it again,but I'm getting a little frustrated with my car. Would a Virginia Lemon Law apply here?

birdboy1 · March 2004

Please help me understand if my service department took me and my 1.8 tip to the cleaners.I brought my passat in for a routine oil change at 30,000 and also to take off my nokian all weather tires and put the original performance tires back on in anticipation for the spring that is taking its time to get to the northeast. The tech said that my rear brakes were worn almost to the metal. I found this hard to believe as I am easy on the brakes and never replaced brakes in my previously owned nissan or honda until almost 50,000miles. Anyhow, he said it would cost $400.00.
After they revived me and picked me off the floor I gave the OK because I was already in the shop and service appointments are hard to get. I asked him it would be much cheaper to have it done in sears or midas , he replied probably, but only by $75- 100.00.
I can not understand how my rear brakes could have been so worn that there was no signs, no metallic noises, no reduced braking, no warning lights.
The service report states that they replaced 2 brake disks, one lining, performed rear brake service including rotors and pads, serviced calipers.
Has anyone else had this job done and if so was it as much? Is there any brake warning on the passat?
Thanks so much in advance for your time to answer this posting.
PS I just received a form to complete joining a class action suit against VW for the coil fiasco. Unfortunately except for major stress and inconvience , I did not have any out of pocket expenses.

jrct9454 · March 2004

...are a common problem on the Passat. 25k miles is not unusual. Go to the "Passat Owners - Problems and Solutions Board" and have a look at the latest post. There have been others.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problem isn't as simple as the rear pads being a fraction of the thickness of the fronts. Honda has acquired a rep for carrying this to extremes, as well, on some recent Accords.

brwalter · March 2004

Re your questions, I can answer one: the ignition coil. Yes, completely fixed. (THe question has been discussed a lot on this board--maybe do a search - but yes, with an '04, not an issue.)

I don't know the answer to the other two questions. I've had my own 1.8T for only 6 months, so we'll see, but I'm hoping it will last a long time - it's a great ride. Makes all the driving I have to do less of a drag. The safety features were a factor for me, too; ESP was good to have this last winter.

Anyway, good luck with your decision!

fish8 · March 2004

The price you were quoted for all the work done sounds fairly reasonable. It is a bit high, but if they replaced, rotors and pads and serviced your brake system (Fluid) it sounds about right. I have also heard of rear brake issues on the Passat. Good luck!!

markcincinnati · March 2004

. . .on my 2000 and 2001 Audi A6's "went fast" too. This may be no consolation other than to confirm that this from VW's 1st cousin (Audi) would seem to corroborate the short life span of older VW and Audi brakes.

By way of comparison, my 2003 Audi allroad (A6 based) has 26,000 and all brakes are factory standard, normal and have just under 50% of their "life left."

Of course all my Audis eat tires in under 20K miles.

You know, I get real excited about a lot of the VW products, I test drive them, I like them and then I get a lease quote on them -- and ya know what? I factor in the no charge for nuttin' 'cept tires and registration/plates aspect of the Audi and I run away from the VW cause they seem less costly to buy but more costly to own, so I -- thus far -- stick with the Audi since I don't have the $400 brake fix surprise or the $80 wiper blade surprise, etc.

I know our good friend VWGUILD says that 100% maintenance + the 50,000 mile warranty isn't doable due to "volume" -- but I would PAY "a flat amount extra" for 100% free everything for 50,000 miles in a heartbeat.

The W8 looks so attractive from every aspect 'cept maintenance.

Of course that's jus' my opinion. . .

Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

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