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Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Did you really mean $6000 due at inception?
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    For them to have any value, you have to say how many total lease payments there are, how many miles are included and the total dollar amount of money had to put up front to get the lease started.
    Skip any of those details and it is a useless number being posted.
  • onlysurferonlysurfer Member Posts: 96
    affirmative. My lease is for 5 years 12k/annum. 6k due at inception. Negotiated sale price of the vehicle was 29k for MSRP of 32andchangeK.

    Did I pay more ? Perhaps. Lease started on Dec 31, 2002 for a Passat 2K2. Chase is the lessee.

    Lissack, to complain about a VW delaer, please take a number. Your number is 1234567890. Good luck!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    AS I said, free country -- but why put down 6K? I don't understand the economics or something. Why not put $0 down, other than the Sec Dep, if needed and the first mo payment. . .

    But, nice car, nevertheless.
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    I've decided to wait until August time frame and seriously look into getting into a Passat. The offer the dealer gave me was decent, but I want to hold off a couple of more months and pay down my lease further. I just hope VW is offering the same sort of marketing support in Aug as they are now. With a new baby coming soon, I will need to get into something a little larger than my Jetta.
  • 3screwsloose3screwsloose Member Posts: 116
    The V6 will have more torque than the 4. You will appreciate that leaving a stop sign. On the highway there may be less difference.
    My 1.8T Tip merges/passes without causing any second thoughts. It also costs $3K less! Uses less gas too! I can't hear my turbo. Actually I can't hear anything, it's so quiet in the car at speed. And smooth too! Well, gotta go - need some lettuce for dinner - guess I'll take the VW!
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    fish8: Just make sure the Passat has enough room. I know it's larger than the Jetta you currently have but it may still not be large enough depending on how much stuff you like to carry.

    I was in a similar situation when I had a 2003 Accord coupe. Found out I was pregnant in August 2003, bought a 4-door Accord in September 2003, had the baby April 2, 2003, bought a 2004 Odyssey last night. The Accord was manageable but between the car seat and the stroller most of our cargo capacity was taken up. We love our Accord to death so we kept it and got in on an extrememly cheap lease on the Ody.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Did your Accord have the split fold down rear seats? That improves the cargo capacity in the Passat (which is already relatively large for a sedan) a lot, and still leaves room for a passenger in the rear..
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    The Accord has a solid folding rear seat.
  • zeitgeberzeitgeber Member Posts: 9
    First I wanted to thank everyone who contributes to the forum; I've learned a lot in a relatively short period of time. One question I still have -what is the true difference between the 2001 and the 2001.5 Passat besides body style? Are there strong reasons to choose one over the other? What is a 2000 lacking?

    I've finally decided to get a Passat after buying a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon 2 years ago. My head won over my heart at the time, but at 34 I'm not quite ready to grow up. I'm going back to a manual transmission in the car I really wanted - life's too short!
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    If you like Subaru and can wait a few months you might want to look at the upcoming 2005 Subaru Legacy GT. manual tranny, AWD, and 250 HP. Sounds like fun. My husband is also 34 and refusing to grow up so he wants to trade his Civic Si for the Subaru.
  • zeitgeberzeitgeber Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the reply. I'm actually pretty disappointed with my Subaru. After owning a wonderful Honda Civic for 7 years, I leaned toward Japanese (Outback) instead of German (Passat) because I placed reliability as a high priority. The Subaru has not been as reliable as I expected, so I may as well enjoy what I drive if I'm willing to put up with some problems, the way I figure it. I appreciate your suggestion, and I hope your husband enjoys his Legacy GT!
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Sorry about your bad experience. We looked at a Forester before we bought my Accord and didn't like the roughness of the engine so it's possible we will feel the same about the Legacy.

    Passats drive great. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
  • meandeanmeandean Member Posts: 13
    According to a number of posts on this board and elsewhere, and according to the techs at my dealership, the phenomenon of rear brakes going first is the norm, not the exception. When I finally had my brakes done at 60K the tech mentioned that my experience was rather good as, in his experience, most people had to replace pads and rotors at 20 - 30K.

    Hence, my concern as my usage and "light touch" enabled me to save some $$ on normal wear and tear usage repairs. So, given that nothing changed except for the new parts, why might there be a much higher wear rate on these parts? I spoke to the service guru at another dealership who said that the amount of wear reported might be an "eyeballing" by the tech and not an actual measurement -- I'm going to check that out with the service folks at the dealership that made the report.

    However, if my situation is such that it is actual wear, I need to do something about this as I am not happy with such a drastic change in quality/durability of the parts. Has anyone used anyone other than VW for brake work and have the parts work been better than experienced at the dealership?

    Again, thanks for any input and/or suggestions.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .currently the Passat can be had with either a 1.8T 4-cyc engine or a 2.8 6cyc engine. Now, please don't go into denial and remember all the info you'll get is what is published.

    The 1.8T engine is a gift from VW/Audi to "their customers" worldwide. This little engine that could can be tuned a variety of ways. Practically speaking it spans a HP range of 150 to 225 in its various and sundry incarnations. Simply put, this engine produces such a broad range of published specs -- accurately, I might add -- based on the tuning of the turbo (and in the case of the 225HP version, larger turbo impellers.)

    So, you are VW and you've got this great engine and it is a "snap" to tune it to a published 180HP, I mean it is a "couple of lines of code in a computer program" (and this is pretty close to being the literal truth.) And, you've also got this venerable work horse of a V6 engine that has been around for many years, is relatively reliable and was updated in 1998 to a 5 valve per cyc configuration and a relatively stress free 190HP. This engine isn't even breaking a sweat -- it is tuned to be, IMHO, lazy. It is, granted, smooth, reliable, relatively maintenance free and its only vice is its preference for Premium Juice.

    It is decent with respect to torque, but the torque is not available from an early number of RPM's -- so geared as VW and Audi gear their cars with the Tiptronic, the cars they have this engine mated to (the current Passat and the former Audi A4 and A6) [with the Tiptronic] are, well, less quick than a lot of us would like (especially here in NA).

    The manual transmission version due in large part to the final drive ratio (being lower) and due to the inherent "lack of loss" (of power) that is part and parcel of a manual set up feels considerably more spunky. But the engine is thirsty and above 5,000RPMs takes on somewhat of a more harsh note than one would expect in from such a manufacturer as VW (or Audi).

    The 2.8 engine, when turbo charged, is considerably more fun and, indeed, was the engine that made the second generation S4 a BLAST to drive (and to this very day makes the A6 Sline a major bargain and a major performer). VW never was "allowed" to offer the turbocharged 2.8 engine (called a 2.7T due to the fact that the turbo version has thicker cylinder walls and therefore displaces slightly less volume -.1L, to be exact).

    Enter the 1.8T -- "holy cow" this little dude could be crankin' 180HP in its sleep. Marketing enters the picture: on the one hand the 2.8 (essentially an engine with no future) is not going to be retuned to a loftier HP number, so it sits there at 190HP -- and "it just wouldn't do" to have a 4 cylinder engine that on paper is "only" 10HP less; but, so tuned would essentially accelerate (what we Americans love the most) almost identically with the 2.8.

    The reasons for this are not sorcery, not alchemy, but "breathing." The 1.8T reaches its peak torque very low in the RPM range -- in effect, the 1.8T is more powerful from a dead stop than could be ascertained just by looking at the HP and torque numbers on a sheet of paper for the two engines.

    Equip the 1.8T with a stick shift and the 2.8 Passat (which costs more and uses more gas) will see the 1.8T's tail lights.

    This wouldn't do.

    Engineering to Marketing's aid: detune the 1.8T slightly, give it "only" 170HP and slightly less torque.

    OK, mission accomplished, right? Well, yes, no, but. You see the HP is knocked down -- legitimately -- since this is the number that people "buy" -- the torque however, drops somewhat less and still comes on at sub-1,900 RPM's. The 2.8 really prefers to show off its torque at about 50% higher RPM's (translation, longer in seconds or fractions thereof). In the early drag race of our daily American real-world, the 1.8T still feels stronger from a full stop and perhaps to 50MPH keeps up with or actually betters the 2.8's performance.

    Further confuse the issue by not offering the 4motion V6 version (in the US) with anything but the Tiptronic, meanwhile offering the 1.8T with both AWD and full-manual transmission.

    Thus, marketing has eliminated the awkward issue that would inevitably raise its head when someone would test drive the two back to back. Now, the 1.8T 4motion w stick can more or less avoid the hard to answer and harder to justify query "why is the 1.8T quicker than the 2.8 4motion?"

    Since sticks are, um, well, supposed to be quicker than automatics -- the issue, is rendered inert, right?

    Well, perhaps -- but then the oddest thing, the 2.8 is offered in FWD with a stick -- and for several reasons people do frequently like the packaging of the GLX (with the V6 and stick) better than the less fancy versions offered with the 1.8T and stick. Again, a great smoke screen and a configurator that only allows cars to be built that will "disavow any knowlege of your existence. . .this tape will self destruct in five seconds."

    The 1.8T engine equipped Passats, since their maximum torque is available almost from idle, can really give the 2.8 versions a run for their money -- and the 1.8T versions cost less!

    For my money, and with a "magic" configurator, I would want the following from the current Passat (VW&Audi) parts bin:

    Passat in GLX trim
    1.8T sufficiently blown to product a published 180HP and the corresponding bump in torque
    Manual transmission
    4Motion
    Sport suspension (think GLX W8) package
    Nice stereo system
    Sat Nav
    Priced at about $32,500 - $34,500
    Nice 36 - 39 month lease deals

    ---

    Stand back, these things would fly out of the showrooms.

    ---

    Heck, I'd even consider all the above with a tiptronic available (as an option) for the shiftless crowd.

    The reason such things are not available? Marketing. Not manufacturing capability, not expense even -- you see you just can't offer the Passat without a 6 cylinder engine. It doesn't matter that the 1.8T would be more efficient and frankly more effective. There are those who, even if they don't buy the 6, just want the piece of mind or piece of pie, I dunno, of knowing "they coulda had a V6."

    The most desirable Passat, IMHO, is the sport optioned W8 -- long live the W8. By the way, for what it is worth, the W8 is deader than a doornail insofar as its future is concerned -- it is, to paraphrase Monty Python, "an ex-engine!" Yet, the 1.8T for not much money can be pretty much made to be the "best Passat currently offered" -- very close to the GLX in features and content, very close in peformance and very attractively priced.

    I spent Saturday driving, with my wife, an Audi 1.8T equipped A4 -- after having driven a similar 3.0 (Audis V6 du jour) -- I have become a true believer that the 1.8T engine is one of the best things ever to come from VW and Audi AG -- if you are in the market for the Passat, take a long test drive with a Passat so equipped, you will be amazed.
  • feilofeilo Member Posts: 128
    markcincinnati: What an eloquent post - I salute you!
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Apparently, the sweet deals on Passats last month provided an increase in sales over Apr 2003 numbers. Passat Sedan sales for Apr '04 = 5,976 compared to Apr '03 = 5,353.

    Do you all think VW will continue to have similiar deals throughout 2004 to keep Passat and Jetta sales up? I would think without similiar cashback incentives, Passat sales would go back down. Just my thoughts.....
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The June 04' issue of Automobile Magazine has VW in the news section stating that "VW's glory days are over; as sales stagnate and profits tumble, the companies future product plans become all the more crucial." They show the new Concept C showcar, which is supposed to be close to the next generation Passat.
    I have a 1.8 T Passat, and I like the car very much, It's one of the most enjoyable cars to drive that I've owned. I just don't like having to spend so much time in the shop, even though the work is all under warrantee. I'm convinced that VW/Audi would dominate the market if their quality was as good as their product designs and fun-to-drive index.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...is that all their models are refreshed/replaced at the same time for the most part. The Golf, Jetta, and Passat are all being released in Europe with 12 months of each other and then they hold off introducing them in the US for a year or two. Even they've admitted they have to stagger launches better to maintain excitement and longing.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    As Honda is one of my clients and nothing I will say is "confidential" I assure you that your statement pertaining to glory days (at VW) is weighing heavily heavily heavily on Honda and Toyota too. These companies, like your VW quote, are not turning out new product "quick enough" for a public that expects (not quite literally) all new products all new generations oh, about every 15 minutes.

    VW, certainly, may be the worst offender -- but Toyota is concerned that it is becoming the Japanese Cadillac and has a plan to thwart that perception. Honda, likewise, is planning to shed its loooonnnggg cycle times -- and so is VW (and Audi) so they claim.

    New and exciting cars are coming from many companies for MY 2005 -- the trick will be to refresh these cars much more quickly NEXT time. The current Audi A6 came to market in 1997 and it soldiers on essentially (external styling cues, at a minimum) unchanged here in 2004. A new replacement, already getting lots of buzz, isn't due until October 29, 2004.

    The quote about VW is NOT incorrect -- it is however incomplete in that it does not expand upon this notion to include some other "offenders." And, don't get me started on American cars -- but 2005 is already looking promising -- I am psyched about the new Chrysler 300C, the Cadillac STS and some others too numerous to mention. Ditto the Acura RL and several interesting offerings from Infinity. The new 3 series BMW will be here next MY and there will be a 2005.5 Audi A4 followed by a new 2006 version taking the new A6's technology and "internalizing" it.

    Someone has been asleep at the wheel so to speak at several of these companies -- I believe to a company they all know about the condition of their condition.

    The mention of VW and glory days, I do find somewhat interesting however in light of the wonderful Touareg and the bargain luxobarge Phaeton (and the R32, even with its limited run). I suspect we are lamenting the loss of focus on the mainstream VW bloodline -- and if that is the case I, once again, agree. But, I wish to underscore that they are not alone in this regard.

    This "being not alone" does not excuse anything -- the rule they should follow is lead. The fact that so many have allowed product to stagnate, however, may, in part, be excused by the global economic slowdown we have been enjoying for the past three years (the bottom fell out in manufacturing and technology in May 2001, and it is now heading back up). Things, if you believe in cycles, are "due" for some rapid rebirth as the Western Economies rebound.

    Ahhh alliteration has a rather nice ring to it, don't you think?

    Or don't you?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    I don't think the current VW products are as out of date as you indicate, the Passat is still a wonderful car, as good or better than most of the competition. The I'm sure the next generation will be ahead of the competition as it was when the B5.5 platform was introduced. The Toureg and Phaeton are wonderful cars, but reliability and quality have yet to be proven.
    VW's fault is quality and reliability. If their products were as reliable as the Japanese brands, they would own the market. And if you think reliability has to suffer because Audi/VW are "cutting-edge" and fun-to drive, I disagree. Just look at Nissan and the Infiniti G35. They are terrific cars, and also reliable. If they would only get the interiors right...
    Why can't one manufaturer get it all right?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    In part, my comments were actually meant to suggest that VW is NOT as out of date as the previous poster's comments and magazine quotes where it was stated that VW's glory days are behind it.

    While I do think that VW needs to refresh its products with greater frequency, my point was intended to say "yes, but. . ." VW is not alone in this regard and indeed there are areas in which they have not been lagging.

    If I overstated "my" case in terms of out of date-ness of products, well, I hereby slightly retract the statement.

    Indeed, I find that, for instance, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and a number of the American car mfgs have not been refreshing their product lines as often as it is becoming apparent the "market" has or is coming to expect.

    I want to make this one thing perfectly clear: I am a fan of virtually everything Audi and VW have on the market. I may have some frustrations that the product line is not kept as fresh as it apparently will need to be as we move into the second half of the first decade of the 21st century -- but overall I am a great big fan of these manufacturer's products.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    I'm also a fan of VW and Audi, and I'd be an even more devout fan if they addressed their quality and reliability shortcomings. The fact that I've kept my Passat after all the repairs and recalls is testament to that. I still like to drive it!
  • m9431m9431 Member Posts: 38
    Many interesting points posted earlier; I have to add some comments based upon owning VWs, Hondas, and Toyotas simultaneously. I too wonder why a single manufacturer can't "get it all right." I notice that Toyota seems to adopt (copy?) many of the best ideas of the bunch. Their reliability is legendary as their customer service. (I also own 2 Toyotas). Yet VW has many advantages that combine for a rewarding driving experience. Honda? Sorry, after my last two Accords ('01 and '02) I have no plans to own any more due to problems, and worse yet, poor customer support. Who would have guessed this from Honda?

    As I drive 500 to 700 miles per week, the differences between vehicles fast become evident over time--VW is a driver's car. With over 40k on the clock already, my Golf TDI has been great. Just to mention that I recently test drove the new Passat TDI--WOW!!! As an engineer and 'car nut' I recommend you do the same.

    OK, some suggetions for VW. Why the big push to move so far upscale, i.e., over $50k for the Phaeton and Toureg. I thought that is Audi's territory. Why not bring economical DIESEL vehicles to the USA under the VW name? I'd love to see a TDI SUV: Honda CRV/Toyota Highlander-sized and priced to sell. I envision a Passat or Jetta Wagon with more ground clearance and a 'tougher' look. VW now has a great opportunity to promote diesels in the USA and ride the gasoline alternative wave that hybrid vehicles initiated.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I believe much of the upmarket push is due to the "fact" that there's always (as in at any point in the cycle) room at the top.

    Through the ever changing economic sands of time, those products that "cater to the upscale" seem more resiliant, more, ahem, profitable.

    This may or may not be able to be proven, I am not here to defend it, just report that this represents my interpretation of VW's intent and reasoning.

    They're movin' on up "to the Eastside, to a dee-luxe apartment, in the sky-i."

    The Touareg and Phaeton are steps one and two, the rest of the plan will unfold over the next few cycles -- subject to change? Sure -- but, thus far it is too soon to declare this upscale push has crashed and burned or soared to the highest highs.

    Keep checking, I'll give them until 2007 to show success in this endeavor. I wonder how much time the Board of Directors and shareholders will give, before significant evidence of success is no longer optional?
  • taft4taft4 Member Posts: 57
    When any of us purchase a car the one we finally choose has the attributes we find most important. My wife is disabled and for us the passenger seat comfort, height, and adjustabilty is very important. 18 months ago we purchased a Subaru Forester that seemed to meet most, but not all of our needs in this respect and so we purchased one, but we soon found that we could not get used to its hard ride and noise and other inconveniences. We traded it in on a new Passat GLX sedan, with some misgivings. From all I have been reading, here and elsewhere, including CR, VW has a lousy reliability history although the Passat appears to have a better record than the other models.

    I discovered in doing my research that it is almost impossible to get a power passenger seat (6-way power or more) on even the best models of the cars of this size and price. We found the Taurus had a 6-way but is an old car with many shortcomings, the Lincoln LS had a 6-way, but rear drive, and the large new KIA met our needs, but I was suspicious of its newness and low volume, and so the Passat with 8-way and lumbar support was just the ticket.

    I have owned 46 cars in my years of driving, and from memory, as faulty as it is, the Passat appears to be the best driving car I have ever owned. 400 miles of usage doesn't really tell me much but it rides well and quietly and handles superbly, and so with fingers crossed about the reliability factor we can only hope for the best. It has a radio, which we rarely use, that has a lousy AM band that will need to be fixed, but other than that, so far so good.

    What is hard for me to understand is why VW has let such bad reliability problems continue for so many years especially in view of the worldwide competition that it faces. I was reluctant to purchase a car from them because of that reputation and I wonder how many sales they have lost because of it.
  • arjay1arjay1 Member Posts: 172
    I had posted previously that at about 50,000 miles my mass airflow sensor went bad to the tune of almost $400. Just after replacing it I received the letter from VW informing that the warranty on this item was being extended to 70,000 miles. In addition, it stated that if you had already repaired it you could submit a claim with your receipts for possible reimbursement. Well, this week I received my check from VW for just over $382. Not too bad.
    For what it's worth, I had to replace my battery this week. That and replacing the rear brake pads are my only repairs thus far as my Passat turns 4 years old this month and has 62,000 miles. This is my 3rd VW and have had good luck with all of them.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .has a brand spanking new Passat GLX 5spd manual . He drives hard and fast. The car has been over about a three month period flawless.

    I know this isn't going to convince some of anything, and frankly, I understand why.

    I just find that there is perhaps a perception about quality and reliability that I can't recreate, for my experiences with almost 30 German cars would indicate that they are NOT unreliable.

    To read some posts, one would think the wheels of VW's and Audis (and other Germans) are at all times on the verge of falling off, the engines "are gonna blow" any minute and that they are just plain dangerous.

    While I admit to publishing my opinion that a VW or Audi or other German for that matter are "breathtakingly expensive" to keep out of warranty, I honestly have had, since 1977, an insufficient number of problems with my German cars to ever discourage me from the next one.

    But, I still WANT them to be more reliable.
  • meandeanmeandean Member Posts: 13
    I, too, have to comment on the reliability of VW s. I've owned a bug (1970), rabbit, jetta turbo diesel, and now have 2 Passats (a turbo and a 6 cylinder). For the most part, repairs have been minor and with the exception of some small replacements (e.g., needing the shop to replace bulbs and the new $80 wipers (which can be worked around))I've enjoyed the driving/handling of the Passat -- Japanese cars just can't compare (I've owned 3 hondas).

    BTW, I maintain my cars well and I tend to keep them for many miles (sold my Jetta to my mechanic with 225,000 miles on it) and my high mileage Hondas had plenty of stuff that needed repair/replacement.
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Member Posts: 136
    When I see posts regarding reliability I wonder about the context of the owner's remarks. I know there a cars with problems, recalls, etc. VW had a rash of trouble a couple years ago and was slow to step up. I was telling a friend the other day I bought a new Passat and that's the first thing he asked about. He's never's owned a VW.

    I got a $1000 owner loyalty on the new Passat. I certainly didn't buy the Passat because of that. Nor was I nervous because at 90K miles the clutch went out on my '95 Jetta. I bought the Jetta for my oldest daughter when she was in HS and my youngest daughter is still driving it in grad school.

    A clutch failure at 90K (four years ago) would not discourage me from a new VW. For others a blown fuse at 10K is enough to have them howling to Consumer Reports.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Amen!
  • victorvictor Member Posts: 1
    I bought a 2003 4Motion GLX wagon and am thinking of selling it and then leasing a 2004 GLS 1.8T 2wd with a manual transmission. While my wife and I really like the car, it's hard to drive it to work and especially around town with an Escort sitting in front of our house due to the relatively poor gas mileage. The diesel option really intrigues me, and should Volkswagen decide to bring a manual transmission/TDI pairing to the US, I could then terminate the lease and purchase that vehicle outright.

    In the winter time, I drive in snowy conditions fairly frequently, but only when I'm headed up to go skiing. My experience has shown that there are only a few days per year that require chains, so surely the inconvenience is outweighed by the lower vehicle cost and the relatively better gas mileage. On a side note, it raised my eyebrows to see that Volkswagen's website states that the tire/wheel combination on my GLX is now compatible with tire chains, whereas my owner's manual prohibits their usage. I've seen many posts in the Town Hall forums whose general tone on the subject suggests that FWD Passats do just fine in slippery conditions. Does anyone have an opinion on the ESP option?

    My only concern is that of selling the current vehicle. Kelly Blue tells me my car is worth $28.5K, but with all of the dealer incentives, it seems that I'd be hard pressed to get this kind of compensation, and certainly not from the dealer. Is there any reason to believe that the dealer will offer me a reasonable price? I have no problem selling to a private party, on the other hand.

    Thanks, I'd appreciate hearing about others' experiences.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    To put it directly: ESP should not even be debated, it should be thought of as Super ABS and as a must have feature!
  • brozhnikbrozhnik Member Posts: 172
    This was my first winter with ESP, and man, it was great. I got through a harsh midwestern winter with front-wheel drive and no snow tires, and never lost control for a split second, even when other cars in front of me were slipping and sliding. I wouldn't be without it.
    That's just me. For actual research go to : http://www.esceducation.org/
    See, for example, the University of Iowa study that's linked to in the left column.
    This is a feature that (unlike ABS) can greatly reduce your risk of losing control even when you have to maneuver fast. Given that VW makes it available for so little extra (unlike Toyota, which makes you pay thousands over the base price), I agree with Mark: don't even consider passing it up.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    As I said on other boards, people should not confuse ESC with traction control. ESC evolved from anti lock brakes, and is much more sophisticated. Sensors monitor everything from steering wheel position and tire speed to centrifugal forces your car undergoes while cornering. It will control your course with micro chip speed and put you back into full control.
    Toyota found that ESC reduced single vehicle crashes by 35% and head on crashes by 30%. Mercedes reported a 29% drop in single vehicle accidents, crashes of all types reduced 15%. In some cases it will sense an impending rollover and deploy the side curtain airbags before the vehicle can flip, or preempt the roll over by braking individual wheels to keep the car right-side-up.
    In brief, ESC is probably the most revolutionary safety development in the last 5 years, and congratulations to VW for being one of the first to offer it in a mainstream sedan at a reasonable price.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .it is my assumption that ESC is a "generic" name for the feature Audi, Bosch, Chrysler, Mercedes and VW call ESP?

    Here is a URL on intelligent stability and handling systems -- also listed are the Brand Names different companies use for what is essentially the same technology:

    http://www.abs-education.org/ishs/techindex.html

    Some names for intelligent stability and handling systems that you may recognize are:

    · Active Handling
    · AdvanceTrac™
    · Dynamic Stability Control
    · Electronic Stability Program or ESP
    · StabiliTrac
    · Traxxar™
  • goto_dengogoto_dengo Member Posts: 1
    I'm falling in love with the Passat, but VW's rep for always being in the shop has got me spooked--I'm a little over an hour from the nearest dealer. Would I be crazy to buy under those circumstances?
  • meandeanmeandean Member Posts: 13
    I, too, am about 45 minutes to an hour from 2 VW dealerships -- I own 2 Passats (2000 GLS and 2004 GLX). While I'd prefer that the dealerships were closer, the distance to them has not been an issue or a problem.

    BTW, if you can buy from a dealership that also sells/services higher end vehicles, the service tends to be better (i.e. one of the two dealerships I purchased from sells Audi, Porshe, SAAB, BMW, and exotics; the other sells BMW and Volvo)
  • arjay1arjay1 Member Posts: 172
    My guess is that you will absolutely loose your shirt if trying to sell or trade a 2003 GLX. Your figure of $28,500 looks very high to me. According to Edmunds your car lists for about $23,500 trade or $25,000 to sell outright. The full dealer retail is only about $27,500. I can't imagine where taking a $5,000 to $8,000 loss would be financially prudent. Regardless of gas prices, I would drive the car for a while longer.
  • mbros2kmbros2k Member Posts: 71
    Don't be afraid to buy a new VW. They are great cars and drive like no others, especially for the price. The Passat has had good reliability for several years except for the coil problem which VW promptly addressed. Most new cars have a few small problems, which can usually be fixed when bringing the car in for maintenance. Too many people expect perfection or even miracles. Brakes don't last 60k miles, clutches don't usually last 100k miles, batteries die all the time. Hell, I have to return half the stuff I buy at home.

    Yes, we should expect reliable cars, but there is much more to it. VWs are fine cars that provide great enjoyment. Don't be fearful of what might happen or you'll end up buying a car that you're bored with in a few months.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Never had a clutch wear out (nor has anybody in my family - a dozen cars with clutches), and that includes some vehicles over 200k miles. Also just replaced my front brakes for the first time @ 165,000 miles. It depends on how you drive. My father has a 2000 Passat with 120,000 miles. Original brakes and clutch. Anticipating stopping, and shifting smoothly make a huge difference.
  • mbros2kmbros2k Member Posts: 71
    Sure Dudleyr...and if you always drive downhill you can get over 100 mpg. And tires wear for 100k if you drive on ice and never make a turn...
  • georgekgeorgek Member Posts: 50
    Passats have very long-lived front brakes if you drive with a little common sense. Dudleyr is right - everyday driving to and from work I encounter lights that are about to change to red, or even ones that have turned lellow, and I beging slowing down a hundred yards or so before where I will have to stop while on either side other drivers are still accelerating, hoping to gain a one or two car advantage, then standing on their brakes just before the light. My 2000 1.8 with tip still has the original front discs and pads that passed state inspection yesterday; the rear ones were replaced and just under 100K miles.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Yes my rears did not last nearly as long as my fronts either. First set went at 95k, second set at about 155k (they were sears not oem).

    It also helps having a manual tranny. No creep to contend with, brakes can cool better when stopped (as they don't need to be applied), and more control with engine braking.

    You don't need to go downhill to get 100 mpg, just get a Lupo! : ^ )
  • superflytntsuperflytnt Member Posts: 10
    wondering what you all think about these specks. want to know if Auto/triptronic is problematic for these models.

    This 1.8 turbo Volkswagen Passat (4) door sedan is loaded and in excellent condition!

    ONLY 36k MILES!!

    Features: Automatic with Triptronic transmission, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, Power Door Locks W/Keyless Entry, Power Steering, Power Brakes, PremiumAudio System, Bucket Seats, Power Windows, Alarm System, Lighted Entry System, Digital Clock, Power Door Locks, Remote Trunk Release, Tilt And Telescopic Steering Wheel, Center Console, Daytime Running Lights, Intermittent Wipers, Rear Window Defroster, Tachometer, Trip Computer.

    Price is $13500 OBO
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    You don't mention what year the Passat is?
  • superflytntsuperflytnt Member Posts: 10
    the passat is a 2001. i am hoping its the 2001.5, but it isnt listed that way.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Avoid the Tiptronic -- this "advice" is apparently only for pre 2003 models. See "tip lag."
  • superflytntsuperflytnt Member Posts: 10
    dont know where to look for tip lag. how much lag are we talking here?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    One Mississippi, two mississippi, three mi. . . .whoosh take off.

    Range 1.5 to 4 seconds. My personal experience was MOSTLY in the low range of lag. The articles and petition I have read cite that it is "dangerous" -- I found it to be annoying as can be, but hardly dangerous.

    Usually I find tip lag embarrassing, cause you try to start out from a rolling stop perhaps as you enter an intersection on GREEN and the light turns yellow, so you press down on the accelerator to scoot through the intersection and the car P - A - U - S - E - S and you compensate by flooring the acclerator and just about that moment the transmission "makes up its mind" and the car lurches and lunges forward depending on the torque curve of your engine.

    Happening, for me, in first a $72,000 Audi A8 and $40,000 A6 2.8 and two over $50K A6 4.2's was enough to make me believe it was NOT my driving habits, but the sofware in the tip. Then I drove a Mercedes and it could be made to do the same thing.

    I gave up -- went back to stick shift -- the performance, fun, safety and economy all came back, and they charge less for the manual equipped versions, to boot!
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