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Nissan Maxima

17475777980174

Comments

  • Hey Sid,

    I had a quick question: According to post #3793, college grads get an additional $500 rebate. I bought my car on Jan. 2 already (see post #3778). The $26,000 price includes any advertising fees and the $500 rebate that was going on at the time. We got 0.9% financing as well. My question is this,,, is there anyway for me to try and get the extra $500 rebate for being a college grad??? I know it's a long shot but what the heck.
  • Mainly its bogus! Nissan will occasionally offer it on cars. However, you will have needed to have graduated less than a year before you bought the car.

    The main reason people talk about it is because of the bait and switch adds you always see in the paper. You know the ones, buy a Maxima for 12,999 or whatever. Of course the fine print says that it includes 75 different rebates that you have to have 3 toes, on of which is pink in order to qualify for.

    Its another ploy to get you in the showroom. My store almost never mentions it.

    Sid
  • I figured that it would be a bogus deal, but it didn't hurt to ask. I just graduated with my second degree this December.... so that would have actually been something that I could have easily proven.

    By the way, what do you think about the price that I got for my new GLE? The trim and options are listed on msg#3778.
  • gerapaugerapau Posts: 211
    Anyone have a copy of this TSB that they could put up or email me? I am having the problem that has been discussed here (some pinging and hesitation in 2nd and 3rd gear on a manual) but my dealership (in Canada) does not have access to the US TSBs. He would like to see it to see if he can help me but can not get access to it through Nissan Canada. Any help would be appreciated.

    Paul
  • I have a 2001 Max....love it to death,however there is always that 1 little quirk where things can't be perfect(ohhh whyyy)......I believe somethings up with my hood ,it seems to be flappin in the wind,vibrating at high speeds... I know about the rubber pads for hood adjusting...had the dealer move them to the maximum adjustment.,it "helped" with the vibration but it left a wide gap between the hood and the grille..very noticeable...I'm wondering if this is one of those Monday cars....anyone else notice this?
    Also anyone know if the xenon bulbs in the 2002's are that much brighter than the 2001 halogens?...And has anyone tried these PIAA bulbs and noticed a big difference?...It looks like changing the foglights will be a real pain in the butt...Joe D.
  • I have an 02 SE and when I am above 80 mph, I notice the hood flapping a little. Doesn't cause any vibrations, but I don't like the way it looks. I have gotten used to it because it doesn't inhibit any driving capabilities. I have been at 110 mph and the car is as smooth as butter.

    The Xenons are WAY brighter than the 01 halogens. People sometimes flash their bright's at me like I can do something about it!
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I have always heard that a flapping hood like that is a sign of a car that's not tightly built, or has been in a severe accident before. Just my thoughts.
  • I might have to agree with you ... I feel that there are other things popping up the same way...For instance..there seems to be a decent sized gap between the top of the doors and body....I dont know if this is normal,but I know after washing the car a few times a small amount of water has appeared on the plastic floorboards under each door after rinsing...Who knows maybe I did get a sloppy one...but who'd a thunk it since these come from Japan...UGHHH..But now that I hear its happening on 2002's I'm not feeling so bad...Joe D.
  • mney6mney6 Posts: 116
    500.00 on Frontier,Sentra,Xterra
    You also will get auto approval providing no negative credit history.
    This will apply to all models including used.
    College Grad programs apply to people that have graduated from a US College in the last 2 years.
  • aftyafty Posts: 499
    Is is possible to get the college grad rebate post-purchase? I didn't know about it when I bought my Altima a month ago.
  • Sounds like a great deal to me. Here in NJ, my invoice on that car is 26,983. In that case, you would have been through the holdback on the car. Thats exceptional considering that people will line up all day to pay 500 over invoice.
  • may13may13 Posts: 1
    I am looking to buy 02 SE soon and have read that premium gas is recommend is this so or can you use a lower octane gas without any engine damage. What can of actual mileage can be expected with a auto tranny.
  • vanbo57vanbo57 Posts: 46
    I am getting between 17.5 and 22 MPG with '01 auto SE / premium. Most of my driving is short bursts between stop signs and lights in the 5.5 miles between my home and my job. I have noticed that the highway mileage is quite a bit better than that however, that only accounts for around a third of my haul generaly. Part of the "not fantastic" mileage with my car is my own fault as I to drive the car as "intended" , a little more on the "fun" side.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Posts: 1,078
    This is sort of off topic (and kinda trivial), but reading about the flapping hood made me wonder if, when the car is on motion, does the airflow over the hood actually push down on the hood, or does the hood actually gets pushed up, similar to the effect of an airplane wing? Any aeronautic engineer out there?
  • har1bushhar1bush Posts: 207
    well, in all likelihood, the hood is getting pushed up because the air outside the hood is traveling faster and thus, the air pressure outside is lower (you could try blowing air over a sheet of paper).
  • roar1roar1 Posts: 193
    There is a gap between the top of the door and the roof
    because there is a very large piece of weather stripping
    that acts as the rain gutter for the roof. This is normal.

    Concerning water on your floorboards, I presume you
    mean door sill plates. If this is what you mean , then
    this is normal. When it is raining or has rained, water
    drips off of the top edge of the door onto the door
    sill plate when you open the door. I know this has
    happened to me and appears normal. Also, as on most
    cars, the sill plates are outside of the weather stripping
    and condensation can form on the sill plates
  • roar1roar1 Posts: 193
    Sorry , post #3818 was for you.
  • Cl: the way it looks to me its the air pushing up on the hood at higher speeds causing a flapping type movement....like I said before I had the dealer do a hood adjustment and it did tame the flapping but at a price of a noticeable gap between the hood,lights, and grille area...I've seen and trust me I've looked at other Max's with tighter tolerances and closer gaps and wondered if their owners are experiencing the same thing...
    roar: thanks for the info...I stand to be corrected as them being sill plates...still and all thats alot of water in what I consider "inside" the car for my taste..I would think a little more with tighter seams and tolerances would do the trick...
    Has anyone noticed they've done away with the exhaust wrap that goes around the pipes on the 2002's?
  • mney6mney6 Posts: 116
    There's only Grad money on the Sentra,Xterra,and Frontier.
    College Grad does guarantee you a Tier 1 rate on everything if you don't have any credit at all.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    Even though the post wasn't intended to be for me, I am glad you posted it. I was still wondering why the inside doorsills of my 2002 VW Jetta were always stained with dirty water (my car is Cool White with black leather interior). Now I know. Guess you do learn something new everyday. :)
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,388
    I received this email today from carprice.com. What do think? Is the list representative or is it showing a bias towards domestic Vs import car buyers?

    "The top five cities in "Car Smarts" in terms of haggling and vehicle knowledge were (in order):
    01. Detroit
    02. Los Angeles
    03. Princeton, New Jersey
    04. Chicago
    05. Boise, Idaho

    Lagging the field in the bottom five spots were:
    96. New Orleans
    97. Miami
    98. Seattle
    99. Washington, DC
    100. Portland, Oregon

    The "Car Smarts Index" is determined from an analysis of new-vehicle prices in each city, actual transaction prices, typical discounts, the amount of haggling shoppers perform, depth of vehicle knowledge, and use of the Internet for collecting vehicle information."

    Source: CNW Marketing Research
  • aftyafty Posts: 499
    Thanks a lot.
  • godeacsgodeacs Posts: 481
    I'm getting over 27 mpg on average with my auto tranny 2002 GLE. Quite pleasantly surprised, too....that's using premium as recommended....
  • opimaxopimax Posts: 73
    I live in the Washington DC area, i have never been frustrated so much as going to a dealer for Hondas, Toyota, and of course the most is Nissan. All snobby yet seem to know nothing or maybe less
    !!!! most recently I had my ignition coils replaced after the SES light came on, the gas mileage has dropped afterwards from 26-27 down 21-22 on the hwy. "it depends on the trip" same trip to OHIO every other weekend, next "depends on the gas, maybe it oxygenated", thought they did that in NOV or so, not over New Years day, it was only 1 week between fill ups anyway, "how fast were you driving?" me "72 ish the speed limit plus 2" to myself I went slower this time cuz new rotors (2nd time, not going there now!)"well thats it, you drive fast!" out loud again" a little slower than usuual" dealer "well how does it drive ?" me"pretty good", dealer "thats all then, have a nice day" doesn't offer to check a damn thing me to myself "2nd time a max fails 2k out of warranty and treated shabby, German cars may be worth the money, i am not doing well here"
  • autos3autos3 Posts: 24
    We are considering adding an 02 SE Max to our family of cars, which currently consist of 02 Lexus ES300, 02 Toyota Sequoia, and 01 Honda S2000. I was wondering, do you really believe Nissan will change the MAX for 03? Considering the numerous changes they made to the car you would think they would wait atleast 2years before a complete redo, not 1 year. Anyways, for the money, the MAX is a bonafide bargain, and me and my significant other were thinking of welcoming an 02 MAX SE to our family, we prefer the JAPAN built version over the soon to be made in the USA
    version.
  • Everything that I have herd is that the Max will be new in the summer of 2003 as a 2004 model. I would not worry about the switch to a USA Max as Camry’s and Accords have been made here for years and I don't hear many complaints about them. Maybe it’s because the parts are made in Japan!!

    I am going to the Philadelphia car show today to check out the G35 and the new Z. Hopefully I will get some nice pictures of both of them.
  • autos3autos3 Posts: 24
    Have you ever owned a German car? Talk about arrogant service departments! Yeah, they cost more too, but wait until you get your first charged service bill, HELLO!
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,388
    Autos3:

    No, I don't or never owned a German car. In the family we own an Avalon XLS, Maxima GLE and Volvo S70.

    I live in the Boston area where there is a high percentage of foreign marquees on the road. What is puzzling to me is what the auto dealers define as invoice. From what I know about business it does not appear possible to remain in business selling a car at or below "invoice". To do so would be economic suicide. Consider the additional costs involved:
    salesperson commissions
    office space
    administrative staff
    rent or ownership costs
    real estate taxes, etc., etc.

    Thus, the published "invoice" cannot be the true amount the dealer pays for the car. I know there are other profit centers such as the finance department and service, but they too have their own overhead and cannot expect to carry the sales department, the core business segment.

    I think it would be naive to believe that a company can sell at or below cost and remain in business.

    Are there any dealers or salesmen out there that can shed some light on this?
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I don't know if I agree about them being arrogant. I just bought my first German car (a 2002 Jetta 1.8T), and the dealer I got it from has the best service I ever had.
  • bianca2bianca2 Posts: 78
    So much depends on the individual dealers. I live in the D.C. area too, but bought my car in Michigan (long story...). The Michigan dealer (in Kalamazoo) was great, very helpful, I got a good price and no extra charges for advertising, etc., probably because being in a much smaller market the dealers aren't charged for it. For service, we've been taking it to Pallone in Springfield, and so far have been happy with them. Just routine service, oil changes and so on to date. (Related note - they did charge $200 + for the 15,000 mile work - is that high or is that in the ballpark of what others have been paying?)

    When we needed the first service, we stopped in at what used to be Stohlman Nissan but is now under another name which I forget...anyway, all of the new cars on display had an "Additional Dealer Markup" on the sticker. After seeing that, we got back in our car and drove out, refused to go there for service even though they are closer. I can't stand dealers who play that game and refuse to do business with them for either sales or service work.

    When I bought cars in No. Va. in the past, it was more of a haggling situation than in Michigan, definitely was ripped off on my first two car purchases when I was young and innocent (a LONG time ago!), and had to spend a fair amount of time haggling and visiting several dealers when I bought a Camry in '93. Buying a Jeep GC in '97 was easy, though. Guess the moral of the story is that with all the dealers around the Washington area, there is a lot of competition, a large market, and there is probably a wide range of both consumer knowledge and dealer courtesy/fair dealing.
  • Just got back from the Phila show. They had a red g35 but no Z
  • harmanharman Posts: 2
    Hi All
    Just bought a 2002 Maxima GLE a month ago and have
    noticed an odd little noise in the dash area.
    It is hard to explain, like a little popping noise.
    Like the windshield or dash don't fit just right and when
    you hit a certain type of bump it kind of cracks or pops.

    Also any when experience a lot of road noise?

    Besides these two minor annoyances the car is incredible.
    It is just plain fun to drive.

    Thanks for any help
  • mmx6mmx6 Posts: 18
    From the various magazine articles I read, there seems to be a huge difference of opinion on the effects of the Maxima's 95 redesign. Maybe I should have made the topic "85-94 Maxima vs. 95-04 Maxima" but oh well.
    Anyway, as you know, the main changes were 1. the styling, 2. dual air bags, 3. the engine, and 4. the beam-axle taking the place of the independent rear suspension. Obviously, the new engine is better (though it needs premium, unlike before) but Consumer Reports claims a significant degradation of ride and handling in their test of a 95 GXE; they also noted comfort of all seats took a fall. Consumer Guide also noted that rear seat comfort was compromised because they lowered the seat, which adds headroom but kills leg support and you now "fall into the rear seat". Car And Driver didn't seem to notice any of the above and thinks the Maxima is a masterpiece, although they did complain about the beam axle on the 95 Sentra (which I also complain about).
    Who's right?
  • chauctchauct Posts: 2
    I live in Portland, OR and just bought a grey lustre with frost interior (cloth). I got it for $22,499 (including $1,000 rebate). The only add-ons were floor mats and 4 splash guards. One good thing about living in Oregon is that one doesn't have to pay sales tax. Plus, Beaverton Nissan didn't tack on any unusual fees (i.e. advertising, inventory, etc.) like other dealers as many have reported in here.
  • wittbdwittbd Posts: 1
    I'm in a little bit of a dilemma. I found a 1995 Nissan Maxima Se on the Internet for $9,000. It has 104,000 miles on it and is in very very good condition. The gentleman that is selling the vehicle just put a bran new set of shocks, tires, and wheels on the vehicle, and it is a very sharp and well maintained car. The problem is, that it is in Wisconsin, and I live in Montana. There is know way to test drive, or to look at the vehicle in person. So I had him send pictures of the car, 28 pictures to me so I could see the vehicle as best as possible considering the circumstances. Well he sent the pictures and I really like the car, and I want to buy it. My problem is, how do I go about doing this? Can I have it shipped, and what does that cost. How do I do a legal Money, Title trade, with confidence that each of us doesn't feel like we are getting screwed. Or is it better just to fly out there and pick the car up? I'm confused on how they sell cars over the Internet and any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in Advance.
    Wittb
  • sunkidsunkid Posts: 1
    I am in the market for a new car near or under $30K. Have test-driven several. Loved best the BMW325i (both the AWD/RWD), Lexus IS300, Passat GLX V6, Camry/Solara XLE-V6, and Maxima GLE.
    All vehicles I test-drove come standard with traction control system, but for Camry and Maxima. I live in Southern California where it is not that slippery and roads are fairly wide. However, comparing the driving handling, vehicle control and breaking comparisons; Maxima and Camry stand behind the rest. I wonder if having a traction control option help the matter. I am seriously considering Maxima since it gives lot more power at lot less money and when compared apple-to-apple, Maxima comes out ahead of the rest. So, how much does traction control will really contribute to the steering, handling, and breaking - overall quality, safety, and fun for me? (note: selecting the Traction Control option mandates adding three other options - Meridian, Side Air Bags and Power Sun roof - easily adding $2K more grands to the base price; is it worth it or am I just going to throw money on the option that is not that necessary for this vehicle?). Thanks.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    ..going to make ANY difference in everyday steering, handling or braking. All it's going to do is transfer power in the event of wheel slippage (i.e. under acceleration on a slippery surface). In Southern California, you aren't going to get a lot of use out of that unless you chase rain clouds. (The "Stability Control" feature on BMW's and some other cars is a different matter, but even they don't change the basic handling dynamics of the car, they just help correct it when you exceed them).

    Haven't driven the Lexus IS30 (since I'm not a "kid"), but the BMW 3-series is the king of small sport sedan handling. The Passat is close to the top in FWD cars - I think it has slightly more body roll than a Maxima SE, but some like it's steering feel better. The Camry & Solara are not in the same league as any of these other cars. They are well built Japanese Buicks.

    If you want a better handling car than the GLE - and one that is alot more fun to drive - try the Maxima SE 6-speed. With or without traction control, it will feel tighter than the GLE. And the six-speed will definitely add to the "fun" factor, if that's what you're really looking for.

    P.S. to "mmx6" on the 89-94 vs. 95-99 Maxima: I have a 95 SE which I bought after very positive recommendations by a friend who had and still has a 92 Maxima SE. The 95 equals or exceeds the previous generation in all respects. The criticism of the rear suspension seems to be being circulated by those that have all read about it in Car magazines but have never seriously test driven a Maxima SE against one of it's supposedly "more advanced" competitors like a Honda Accord or Acura TL. I wonder why these same authors don't knock the BMW 540 and M5 for using old fashioned recirculating ball steering? As an owner of a Honda S2000, I like both high technology and great handling. But I still let my rear end judge the latter and the 1995+ Maxima SE does, in my opinion, beat the previous generation.
  • In all likelihood the Maxima is probably in decent shape if you check carfax.com to make sure it hasn't been damaged and all the pictures don't show damage. However, I would NOT buy a car without test-driving it. For a $9000 investment, I would fly out there to see if it drives well and that you really want it. You must then consider the time it would take to do that, and the time to drive it back if you do indeed purchase it. The monetary and time cost to do that might not be worth it. You could probably have the car shipped, but I don't see that being very cheap and you wouldn't know for sure the true condition of the car. I would look at local dealers and check out their used inventory. From what I understand, the used car market is flooded and you could probably get a similar deal without all the hassle. Even if you had to pay a grand or more for a similar model at a local dealer, you would pretty much be even with all the hassle you would go through getting the Maxima from out-of-state. It wouldn't be worth it to me unless I were going to save several thousand. Not to discourage you, but I think the vehicle being out-of-state is a deal-breaker.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    mmx6... The decision by Nissan to go with the cheap beam rear suspension in lieu of a truly independent rear suspension did make a big difference in rear end. They did it to save money thinking few would notice. They are cheap and easy to produce. One reason tons of minivans use this type rear suspension. And it is pretty space efficient. However, those aren't reasons to put one in a sport sedan. Thinking Nissan used to call the Maxima a "4-door Sports Car". The average person driving it moderately on good surfaces won't notice it. But get it on rough roads and you will. Take a serious curve with a pothole or bump and you'll immediately notice the difference. Was another reason why Camry and Accord cleaned up in marketplace these past 6 years.

    Notice how the Altima went back to a fully independent suspension? The new Infiniti G35 also uses a fully independent rear suspension. The next generation Maxima will return to one as well. Without one, the next Maxima won't be competitive in its target market.
  • Where can I get more information on the new 2003 Maxima?
    My wife wants to get a 2002 Maxima SE but if it is going to be redesigned again than maybe waiting a year might be the wise thing to do.
  • ludacrisludacris Posts: 185
    Please read this..


    http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84199&highlight=rear+beam+suspension


    Granted ride quality is not close to as good as the Camry I doubt the Maxima will lose to one in the twisties..

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    ludacris... Thanks and interesting. One person's opinion. But he does conceed my most basic point. The beam axle is inherently less stable on bumpy or uneven surfaces. A good beam axle, even the best beam axle, still suffers from its inherent non-independent limitation. And that is why the press pointed it out when Nissan cut corners with the re-design and why Nissan is now going fully independent rear suspensions with new Altima and G35. Future Maxima will follow.

    Will those who defend the lowly cheap beam axle today bemoan its loss in future? Will they write how Nissan is making a mistake? Will they clamor for a return to beam axle for 2007? How come I find that hard to believe.

    Nissan would've had the best of both worlds with a fully independent suspension set up. It would improve ride quality for those buyers who value it (most Accord and Camry buyers) as well as made the Maxima a better all around sport sedan for those who love its performance with its wonderful V-6 and manual transmission option. At least Nissan knows it made a mistake and will fix it.
  • aftyafty Posts: 499
    My parents have a '95 Maxima GLE and I've driven probably 10-15k of the 150k miles on it. The seating position is very low, feels almost like you are sitting on the floor. They are right in that you don't get a lot of leg support from the seats because the seating position is so low.

    I think the main reason C&D liked the '95 Maxima so much was the new engine. The VQ engine used in the '95 and above Max is completely superior to the old VG V6 used in previous generations (we also had an '87 Maxima with the VG engine, so I have experience with both). The VQ engine is much smoother, more free-revving, and much more powerful. It feels like a sports car engine, not a family sedan engine.

    As for handling, I've never driven the '89-'94 Maximas so I can't give a fair comparison. Also, my parents' Max is a GLE, which has a softer ride and more floaty feel than the SE models. I can say that there is a good amount of body roll on our Maxima, and the handling overall is not particularly confidence-inspiring. You can feel bump steer (a result of the solid rear axle) when you hit a bump mid-corner. I have an '02 Altima SE, and my car has much less body roll and feels more composed in corners, though the ride is stiffer.
  • albatros 43 gave good advice. It's hard to believe there isn't a good buy on a Max that is closer to you, especially if you're in western Montana. But if you want to pursue this one, I'd make the purchase contingent on a clean bill of health from a competent (and unbiased) mechanic. That will tell you far more than pictures. And if you're looking for a good mechanic, try the Car Talk site (under "Actual Car Information" and then under "Mechan-X Files"). Unless the WI Max is in the boonies, you should come up with a mechanic both parties can trust.
  • serrejserrej Posts: 2
    I am planning on buying a 95 GXE 5speed with 50,000 miles on it. This will be from a private part, is there any specific mechanical problems or concerns that I should check out? Edmunds used TMV is $7,215 does that sound about right. John
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    I was at the Detroit auto show yesterday and had an opportunity to check out the '02 Alty and Max. I preferred the Max for style and interior. However, I was disappointed with the tiny trunk pass-thru. What's the point of having both seats fold down if that little hole is all they give you to stick things through? I use my wife pass-thru all the time and most of the time when I do I need more space that the Max gives me. All by itself it's not going to prevent me buying this car, but it's annoying.
  • mmx6mmx6 Posts: 18
    Yeah, I know all about the concepts of the beam axle, and I know what it's like in practice, since I own a 95 200SX SE-R. The Sentra (same thing as 200SX) underwent the same degrading operation in 95 as the Maxima, and the beam axle definitely sucks on my car. The ride is more jumpy and I hear constant rattles. What I don't get is why the enthusiast magazines never seemed to complain about this on the Maxima, since they scrutinize on every possible mechanical flaw on a car. C&D said the Sentra's ride got worse but made no such complaints about the Maxima, even after 5 seperate articles on the 95-99 generation. Edmund's never mentioned it at all on either the Maxima or the Sentra/200SX.
    In the past, I've driven both a 98 and a 2000 Infiniti I30 non-Touring (on two seperate days when our G20 needed servicing and we were given a loaner car) and the ride actually seemed pretty good, but it's hard to make comparisons in your distant memory.
    Yes, the VQ30DE engine is definitely superior and more efficient than the old VG30DE: it's lighter (since it's aluminum) and has more horsepower and torque from the same-size block. But since I'm planning to use this as a mild-mannered family car, torque is the most important commodity, and it didn't improve all that much. Plus the 89-94 GXE models with their SOHC engine only ask for 87 octane, correct?
    What else was degraded on the Maxima on 95 besides the suspension and styling? I noticed the little details on Nissans started getting cheaper around that time. My 95 SE-R doesn't even have a CLOCK. Didn't the Maxima gain a big stupid intrusive trunk hinge and such? I noticed that Nissan leather quality went down in the late 90's. Seems to me that the world's most perfect mid-size sedan would be a 94 Maxima with the 95's engine and dual air bags.
  • Yeah, the rear beam suspension does kind of lack in performance. I never notice it in everyday driving, but over speed bumps and other bumps, BOY do you notice!

    The most recent experience I had with the beam on my 02 SE model was going around a 50 mph corner at 80 mph. The back suspension hit a bump and the back end jumped out on me. It caught the ground again, but it was still a pretty unsafe and scary feeling.

    Believe me, NO one is going to miss that rear beam! Especially me! I love my Maxima, but that is the only negative thing about the car. I am glad they will be changing it for next year.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    ..you should be the first to appreciate that it is possible to engineer good performance out of older technology.

    The recirculating ball steering in the 540i is clearly inferior technology to the rack and pinion setup in the 530i. And while some (me included) may notice a bit better steering feedback, smoothness and precision in the 530i, nobody is likely to dump on the 540i (and M5), just bescause BMW made the steering sacrifice to fit an 8-cylinder in the engine bay.

    There is no doubt in my rear end that the Maxima SE outhandles virtually all of it's front wheel drive competitors from Japan, Germany or Sweden. (oh yeah, and America).

    If your rear end tells you differently, then I respect your opinion. Just don't give me the "technical" answer as to why it can't be. After all, bumblebees do fly and the M5 is the ultimate performance sedan (imagine that, even the Maxima has rack and pinion steering!).
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    habitat1... There is a huge difference between an independent and a non-independent rear suspension. The physics dictates that the latter is inherently inferior to the former. There is no similar analogy between a rack and pinion steering system and a recirculating ball system. They have different characteristics and there are trade offs in regard to when one might be superior to the other. Steering is more than just turning. It includes responding to bumps, tracking in straight lines, turning at various speeds and angles, etc. Same goes for front suspensions. Why don't you point out that the wonderful 5 Series uses "lowly" McPherson strut fully independent front suspension?

    Being more expensive or more "sophisticated" does NOT automatically mean it is "better". Technology is only superior when it is used by real people every day, not when it is looked at on paper or compared for its "technological superiority". Was Beta superior to VHS? Apple Macs over Microsoft Windows?

    An automatic transmission is more "sophisticated" or "technologically superior" to a manual transmission. Which would you prefer? In my opinion, the former is inherently inferior. It adds weight, complexity, cost, eats up space, reduces acceleration, degrades overall performance, and wastes fuel. So why isn't it better?

    Is a turbo-charged or super-charged smaller DOHC 4-valve engine better than a larger, normally aspirated OHV engine? There is a lot to be said for the "primitive" engines in Vipers and Corvettes.

    Probably because the proof is in the pudding. The 5 Series handles superbly. It may not have as "sophisticated" a front suspension or steering rack, but then both do exactly what you want when you want it.

    What famous law posits that the prefered solution is the simplist one? You get to the same conclusion (driving nirvana) but reach it thru different steering or front suspensions.
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