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2013 and Earlier - Toyota Sienna Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    What is a loss leader? And, doggone it, I knew the prices were better in California! Maryland, too, it looks like
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    A loss leader is a car that some dealers sell below cost in order to show "crazy deals" in their ads. In CA, there is such a glut of dealers, that many of them have loss leaders every week. THere aren't many. They go fast, so you have to go early.
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    I'd bet prices are best in huge metropolitan areas. I'm surprised Houston is not more competitive. I think that Chicago, SoCal, and New England are probably the best markets to buy a car.
  • rawa13rawa13 Member Posts: 2
    Is freight charge same as destination charge?

    I gather after reading this forum that (Invoice - Rebate - $500) is the best one could wish for. TTL should be the only additional cost. Is the destination charge included or it is an additional cost too?

    Thanks for your help,

    Raj
  • bobo5727bobo5727 Member Posts: 11
    Started to look at XLE package 5 when we couldn't find the package 4. We waited to see about the 2000 rebate and funny enough they extended it to August. I have been dealing through the internet exclusively to get pricing. By going to Edmonds, Kelly's I was able to get dealer quotes. I also tried Sam's Club club but their special pricing in Ohio is the same as a local dealer.

    Most dealers came down $1000 to $ 33,029 for the XLE package 5 as of August 1. I had a trade-in, which one dealer offerred me $1000 for even though the books list it at $2000-2500.

    Found a dealer tonight who has one coming in next week. He gave me $ 2000 for my trade and I paid $31,630 OTD with floor mats. At first he was asking $ 34,029 for the van, When I told him that everyone else was asking less he dropped it $1,000 on the spot.

    One salesman told me that the package 5's are out there and that they are still making them. Mine was built last week.

    Happy shopping:)
  • meandwb1meandwb1 Member Posts: 3
    Do you know what package you are looking at? And the selling price was that with ttl? Did that include that $2100 for the headrest dvd? Don't forget - for the headrest dvd - $2100 can be talked down or you can go up to the Audio Visual store on Route 50 in Ocoee and have a great system installed! They did mine and many friends have gotten systems there too - usually much cheaper ... yes - $300 below invoice - rebate + ttf

    I am in Orlando - bought the 2007 XLE, Artic Frost - no dvd ... had dvd in my last vehicle - the kids were zombies ... got ipod videos with tadpole cases instead - less than 1/2 the price, and we then only use them on long trips :)

    Every dealership has a 'nice guy' and there were a lot that were really annoying and played games - Keel @ David Maus was fabulous - you can even chat with him online before you head over - have the price negotiated and ready to go ... and if interested, I can double check - I think it is Steve @ Central Florida (he is an older gentleman originally from Massachusetts) - he seemed nice, and wanted us to call to give him a chance to beat our best offer from the other dealership ... we didn't - the other guy worked too hard and spent too much time with us ...

    Good Luck!

    PS - absolutely LOVE our new van! Great vehicle! David Maus has been great to deal with - in their service department, finance - they had a kids' room and made it a big celebration - it was fun!
  • tx_icetx_ice Member Posts: 22
    The problem for dealers in Houston is that they have to pay the middleman- Gulf States Toyota. The additional features (e.g., VIN etching, Extra Mile pkgs, Wheel pkg, etc.) add to the price and cost for the dealer. I have seen many posts for CA and East coast for Sienna's as much as $2000 cheaper, but never in Houston.

    In Houston, Joe Myers regularly advertises a CE for $20,888. You may try them and see if that loss leader is really available. Champions has also advertised the same price for the CE.

    Good luck.
  • barneymbarneym Member Posts: 32
    I have been looking to buy a loaded Sienna Limited AWD and my search has concluded that there are simply no 2007's left in my very extended area. So am I anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 2008's which kind of stinks since I will be forgoing the rebate and slashed clearance pricing :cry: . I also have a personal deadline of purchasing this by early to mid-September (new baby on the way) which is when rumor has said the first new vans will be hitting the lots.

    I am sure I am not the only one who is in this situation so I was thinking of gathering us into a Buying Group so we could attempt better pricing by dangling a volume purchase in front of some dealers.

    I am looking for people who are within 100 or so miles of Boston, MA and are looking to purchase a Toyota Sienna Limited AWD or FWD with the 2008 equivalents of Package #2/3 (2 for AWD/ 3 for FWD) and #4 and want to take delivery in the first half of September. Please be a cash or credit-worthy buyer. I would hate to gather a group of people, get into negotiations, and then have the deal sabotaged by someone not getting approved for financing.

    If you are interested in being part of this buying group, please contact me. I put together a special email for this: iwantasienna@gmail.com. :shades:
  • bobo5727bobo5727 Member Posts: 11
    I did the same as you , negotiated with several dealers for the best price on the car on the internet. I had to go to the dealer to have them appraise the car. Expect that they may offer you a low price for your car. Go to Kelly's , NADA and Edmonds and check to see what the trade in value is on yours. Also print some prices of what your car sells for. If they say it isn't worth it point out that the same is selling for "x" dollars. I wanted 2200 for mine and the first dealer only offerred me 1000, ridiculous. I left. I went to a second dealer and they offerred me 2000, same car. I would suggest that if you do leave the dealership , leave on good terms. They may end up calling you back and making a counter offer. I had that happen.

    Does this help?
  • rommelusarommelusa Member Posts: 1
    I live in the north Atlanta area and just picked up our new 2007 Sienna XLE today. The vehicle doesn't have any package options besides the floor mats and "ToyoGuard Protection", which is an approx. $700 adder and includes undercoating, 1st oil change for free, scotch guarding on the interior, etc... I didn't want the "ToyoGuard" but the vehicle I purchased (color specific) had it included.

    I paid $28,400.00 total out the door, including tax (7%), tag, title, rebate ($1,500), etc... I hope this helps others with their decisions. Love the vehicle so far!
  • rawa13rawa13 Member Posts: 2
    Bought XLE-AWD with package 9 (Navigation, DVD) for $34,904 + TTL yesterday.

    A couple of questions:

    (Invoice - $500 - Rebate) is considered the best price one could get. Does "Invoice" include holdback, financial reserve & TDA? I would think so. Right? Otherwise, how could a dealer go below invoice?!

    Secondly, the dealer showed me that the rebate amount is just $1,250 whereas everyone else is talking about $1,500! She even printed out Toyota webpage for me. Or does $1,500 include financing-related rebate?

    I will provide more details about how I went about buying it shortly.

    Thanks,
  • billdarchbilldarch Member Posts: 11
    Just bought an '07 Sienna LE 8 passenger with package 3 and the carpeted floormats/doorsill protector from IRA toyota in Milford Mass for cash price of $24669 including a 5 year interior/exterior "scotchguard" application warranty (they are selling for $695) plus tax, doc fee ($195), and registration ($65). This price includes the $1500 customer cash. I am in CT and the dealer actually delivered the car to my door (65 miles) and went to the CT DMV to register it for me..(they arent an authorized out of state dealer) MSRP $29524 PLUS $695 = $30219-- Invoice->$26299 (without scotchguard)
    This dealer had every dealer I spoke to in CT stuttering at this deal..Not one would touch it..If you live in a 75 mile radius- they are hungry bc they just opened this megadealer and obviously are looking for unit sales not profitability... Im impressed...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pretty amazing. I paid $25,247 on the same van back in May, though the rebate was smaller.
  • allezallez Member Posts: 21
    The rebate varies by region. In Maryland it is $1250.
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    Similar story with my purchase. The salesman said that every car goes toward their count for the big $500,000 end of the year bonus. Or maybe it was end of the month bonus.
  • iftequariftequar Member Posts: 12
    I just bought today LE 8 seater w/ package 3, carpet floor mats/door sills protector in N/E Illinois. The price after $2000.00 rebate was $23,919 plus tax title + $58 Doc. fee+ transfer, no other junk fee, paid $ 25,746 OTD., they even pick me up & my family 20 miles away from their dealer ship, that we we did not have to drive in seperate cars, it was a good feeling to return all of us in one new van. I would recommend others to this dealer, no other delaer in the area would come any close. One claiming to give the best price was off by $1100.00
  • billdarchbilldarch Member Posts: 11
    The good thing about my deal was that the dealer offered me $4000 for my trade- I turned it down and I threw it on craigslist and sold it for $6800... Dealers obviously work you over in many different ways--$2800 difference! Trade in's are only one of the angles- Many people dont list that angle on these forums which doesnt give the true deal..
  • dmbleserdmbleser Member Posts: 8
    Am I crazy? I have had two dealerships one in Orlando, Central Florida Toyota and one in Merritt Island, Mike Erdmann Toyota, who have told me they will not negotiate below MSRP through the internet. Is this common practice for Toyota dealerships not to do so? I was able to negotiate the purchase of my Cadillac through the internet.
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    You and Billdarch are two real data points verifying my statistical model. Cool. You guys got incredibly good deals.

    mlabq, "Toyota Sienna - Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #7517, 15 Jul 2007 11:07 am#7516
  • billdarchbilldarch Member Posts: 11
    Interesting- so $23,500 plus $685= $24185 is the statistical floor on this deal? So if I add the invoice cost of the floormats package ($132) plus the invoice difference of an 8 passenger vs 7 pass ($136) plus the supposed cost of the ResistALL package ($300)* equals $24753-- So statistically- I have broken the 100% barrier by paying $24600?
    Cool!

    *($695 msrp-- figures not posted but basically when they pushed me on the resistall I blurted out that I would give them $300 for it-- he stated that this was at their cost and I assume the markup for basically a non service product (more like a warranty) is similar to that-- Ill use $300 as the cost)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet deal, but you got $750 more on your rebate than we get in MD, so noone here is gonna match that!
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    You got an amazing deal, but you didn't break the floor. In my original message, I said 4% of buyers could find the car for $24K before rebate. All your options make that figure $25253. Take off the $1500 rebate and you get $23753. 4% could find a car for $23753 or lower. That means you are right on par with the best of the best deals.

    I mentioned the $23500+destination ($685)number because I didn't think anybody would find it for less than that, but you certainly proved me wrong.
  • iftequariftequar Member Posts: 12
    Not in N/E Illinois, most of them respond with fairly a close price & follow up with a phone & several follow up emails, they were around 2 to 3K below the MSRP. This has been a lot better than driving to the dealer ship, wasting time haggling with the sales man, treats you as you are not well informed, with a lot lesser knowledge than you.
  • dmbleserdmbleser Member Posts: 8
    Here is what we finally did. You tell me if it was a good deal.

    David Maus Toyota in Orlando.
    All internet negotiations. They came to the house to deliver the car and sign the paperwork.
    Sienna XLE $31683 out the door with dual headrest DVD.
    $2000 down inclusive of TTL
    $488 per month for 48 months on a lease.
    Residual Value is $14,410.00

    Yes or no to the deal?
  • bdc2020bdc2020 Member Posts: 58
    Ok, stopped by my first dealer last night.

    They offered me this after some back and forth (which I walked away on as they wouldn't move anymore) -

    LE #3 -
    $25,735 (INCLUDES $2,000 rebate and INCLUDES the $695 SE Advertising Fee)
    + Doc + TTL

    I was asking for $24,400 + Doc + TTL

    Thoughts?
  • artd33artd33 Member Posts: 1
    We're about to buy a new toyota Rav4 and want to know what these charges are and what is negotiable:
    TDA.....$500
    Dealer Holdback...$530
    Whsl Financial Reserve... $265
  • gasmizrgasmizr Member Posts: 40
    I was just told the same things on a Sienna here in NY State
    TDA - 492
    Dealer Holdback - 513
    Fin Reserve - 256

    This was told to me by a friend at the dealer whom I have know for a very long time. They told me these were not negotiable.

    Anyone know anything about these charges?
  • nelpot1nelpot1 Member Posts: 9
    I was told by a dealer that a new 2007 Sienna LE would be coming from the factory early next week. He assured me it was directly from the factory. Is this possible since from what I've read, the 2008's have been in production since late June.
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    I'm putting my statistical model into an excel template so that anyone can calculate how good their deal is. I'll post it later tonight.
  • rodgexurodgexu Member Posts: 1
    Here's the price I got from a dealer through the Internet:
    2007 TOYOTA SIENNA LE 7 PASSENGER
    MSRP = $27,319
    After the instant rebate and attached coupon
    Internet Price = Only $22,785

    Out of door price is $24,226. I am in MA. Is it a good price?
  • bobo5727bobo5727 Member Posts: 11
    Have you posted the excell spread sheet? I would like to see it.

    Bob
  • lojefflojeff Member Posts: 29
    That sounds high. I got an xle with package 6 for 33123 in md.
  • britcrlvrbritcrlvr Member Posts: 83
    dealerships that are unwilling to negotiate over the phone or by email tend to be bad news.

    1) they are not flexible with offers
    2) they don't care if they sell the car or not
    3) tend to be the slimiest of all dealerships

    look for other dealerships in your area
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    I guess tonight is a relative term. Soonest I will be able to really work on it is 9pm MST. It will take me a while, so it might be up late, late tonight. I'll post a URL.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    I think it is possible. I got my Sienna CE last month and according to the little metal plate in the door, it was manufactured last month. ;)
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    They delivered the car to your house? How cool is that? Perhaps they could teach their friends in South Carolina some things.....
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    This is based on Edmund's TMV and MSRP. The model to calculate percentage uses TMV as the average and MSRP as the 2-sigma level. That means that I suppose that 98% of people pay less than MSRP. There is a sheet for each trim level.

    Sienna Price Comparator
  • af1914af1914 Member Posts: 5
    Can you tell me where you purchased the car from? Did you purchase with the cash rebate?
  • mhirjimhirji Member Posts: 1
    Hello:

    I didn't see an "attached" coupon. What coupon is this. WOuld you mind sending it?

    Thanks.
  • delta737hdelta737h Member Posts: 626
    mlabq,

    Your first statement...

    "The model to calculate percentage uses TMV as the average and MSRP as the 2-sigma level."

    makes no sense whatsoever. "MSRP as the 2-sigma level"??? Come on; that makes no sense.

    Your second statement...

    "That means that I suppose that 98% of people pay less than MSRP."

    may or may not be true.

    You're suggesting, on average, that the MSRP lies more than 2 standard deviations above the TVM. WOW, to say that the MSRP lies more than TWO standard deviations above the TVM is a real stretch and seems very unlikely! The TVM would have to be treated as a sample mean and not a population mean. We don't know the population mean.

    The population standard deviation is also an unknown. A valid statistical sample would have to be taken (good luck finding valid data) and the mean and standard deviation computed. Then, we can use the law of large numbers coupled with the central limit theorem and use the sample mean as a point estimate for the population mean. If the two are indeed equal, then the sample mean is said to be an unbiased estimator of the population mean.

    I'm not sure whether you're claiming that the TVM is the sample mean or the population mean. Because of the tremendous difficulty in getting an unbiased statistical sample, I doubt it's a valid sample mean and am certain it's not the population mean. Because we don't know the population standard deviation, we would need to use the sample standard deviation as an estimate and default to the t-distribution to draw inferences about the population as a whole.

    You're inferring that 2.5% of all actual selling prices equal or exceed the MSRP (CL = 95%). If this, in fact, were true, then one would have sufficient statistical evidence to reject the fact that the TVM is the population mean at both the 5% and 10% levels of significance. This of course, assumes three things (1) that the null hypothesis is the population mean = TVM; (2) the alternative hypothesis is population mean doesn't equal the TVM; and (3) a valid random sample produced a sample mean that equaled or exceeded the MSRP. I don't know how or where you're going to obtain valid data to draw that conclusion.

    It's important to recognize that TVM's aren't always accurate. I'm not sure of edmunds methodology surrounding the computation of TVM's. I'd be surprised if it came from a valid statistical sample. It may very well originate from a non-scientific survey.

    I couldn't find your spreadsheet and so I can't comment.

    John
    Medina, Ohio
  • bdc2020bdc2020 Member Posts: 58
    Great spreadsheet! Thanks a bunch! It says 8.3% paid less than me. I can live with that. :)
  • delta737hdelta737h Member Posts: 626
    mlabq,

    Ah, I managed to find your spreadsheet. I took a real quick glance and didn't see it right away.

    I think, conceptually, you've got a good idea. But, I hate to burst your bubble... your spreadsheet is seriously flawed.

    FIRST- The standard devation is not found using the formula (MSRP - TVM)/2. That is an invalid formula as any statistician will tell you. Standard deviation is just not computed this way.

    SECOND- If you're assuming that the TVM is the population mean; that's not true. The population mean is an unknown parameter as I had indicated in a previous post.

    THIRD- If you're using the TVM as a point estimate for the population mean and (MSRP - TVM)/2 as the sample standard deviation and, hence, an estimate of the population standard deviation, then you should be using the TDIST (t-distribution) and not NORMDIST (the normal distribution) as the population standard deviation is an unknown parameter.

    I think you need to get a good textbook on basic stats like McClave's or David Moore's book.

    John
    Medina, Ohio
  • delta737hdelta737h Member Posts: 626
    mlabq,

    Apparently, you're using the formula for the z-score:

    z-score = (obs. value - pop. mean)/std. dev.

    re-arranging...

    std. dev. = (obs. value - pop. mean)/z-score

    According to your spreadsheet:

    std. dev. = (MSRP - TVM)/2

    You're setting the z-score = 2 which FORCES the MSRP to ALWAYS be 2 standard deviations above the TVM. Is this universally true? Of course, not. Do you see the problem with this? Think about what happens if the manufacturer were to change the MSRP... is it still exactly 2 std. dev. above the TVM? Not necessarily and it's extremely unlikely.

    Again, the TVM is not the population mean as you have erroneously assumed. You should be using TDIST instead of NORMDIST assuming, of course, that you have a valid statistical sample which you apparently don't. Nice try though.

    John
  • bdc2020bdc2020 Member Posts: 58
    Here I thought $25,300 + TTL is a good deal on an 07 LE #3 .... :cry:
  • rshannonrshannon Member Posts: 1
    I live on the west coast and looked at four dealers.. They located only 5 AWD SIENNAS in a five state area... found one at a super nice dealer in Walla Walla Wa... they are the best ppl in the four dealers.... $ 27570.00 plus tax and lic...... let me know if you folks have done better and where....
  • qfgqfg Member Posts: 1
    Paid $27,283 + TTL after $1,500 cash back. Supposedly, this is invoice price. I live in California bay area and almost any dealer I called offered this price.
  • bdc2020bdc2020 Member Posts: 58
    Sounds about inline with my $25,300 price for a LE #3 then - as you have more options on yours. We don't have many close by dealers unfortunately.
  • cliu0000cliu0000 Member Posts: 6
    TRICOUNTY TOYOTA, PA.
  • mlabqmlabq Member Posts: 24
    Wow, you know your stats. I fail to see the point to your diatribes though. We're talking about cars. When I write journal articles, I get amazon on the stats, but not when I'm calculating if I got a good deal or not.

    All of your points are well taken. I think it is important to say that all of my figures are based on data that is not scientifically verified or validated. I've no idea where TMV comes from. Why did I choose it as a mean? (Doesn't matter if it is population or sample because all of this is notional anyway) I chose it because it was between invoice and MSRP. Not quite in the middle, but around there. I figured that if Edmunds was quoting a TMV price as what people should expect to pay, they consider it an average. Half pay more and half pay less. It could be the mode or median though. I settled on MSRP being two standard deviations away from the mean because I couldn't see more than 2% of people paying over MSRP for their car. Again, this is a total guess on my part. If you agree with me, you can use the model. If not, don't use it. Of course, this is not the "right" way to calculate standard deviation. I would need to know the data to do it right, but it is a cheap shortcut that gives ballpark predictions. I'd never publish it in a journal article, but I'll put it on Edmunds for fun.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Thanks for posting your stats. I couldn't read them due to some glitch with my computer, but I wanted to say that I've appreciated your posts on the different prices. I just wish that I'd used them a little more knowledgeably when negotiating with the dealer that I leased from. I was totally confused by the whole process, which means I should've had someone else with me. I don't understand why these dealerships can't just give you a price and be truthful about it. Ya know, I really hadn't intended on driving home in the CE that I'm in now. What I wanted was for them to give me a price so that I could compare. 'Course it was mydecision to go bebopping in there, but I think I could've done better. I probably broke all of your rules! Now I go to the Prices Paid thread with trepidation because I don't want to see how badly I messed up! :cry:
    Thanks for all your hard work, though!
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