Oldsmobile Intrigue

one2one · March 2001

If GM is dumb enough to spend so much money developing the engine that spent 2 years on Wards 10 Best (about the highest praise an engine manufacturer can get), they deserve to bite the dust. That's bad business for one. Second, it shows they aren't forward thinking. If they were, they would have had plans in place to use it elsewhere regardless of Olds situation. And third, they prove they aren't ready to compete.

I read similar things to what lee18 says which just proves my point. What, they didn't know it was going to be an expensive engine to produce??? Did they not know they were pumping a lot of money into said expensive engine for a division that was on the verge of collapse??? As I said, poor management. Why spend that kind of money without a financially justifiable reason? Basically a backup plan if Olds didn't pan out?

They should have made plans to use it all across the divisions. I mentioned it before. Look at Toyota. They use the 3000 engine in everything they make from Camrys to GS300s and trucks. If GM didn't have similar plans to use the 3.5 in Impala, Grand Prix, Regal, LeSabre and Catera, they shouldn't have built it in the first place.

I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid. Too bad I can't say the same for execs at GM.

ray72 · March 2001

Hey everyone. I'm currently looking at used Intrigues. You know, one of those deals where your brother-in-law works at a GM dealer and can get you a great deal on a used car. Anyway, I've always liked the way the Intrigues look and know they have a pretty strong engine. But, I was hoping to find out from my fellow edmunds users if they thought a used Intrigue was worth it, or not. I'm so sick of seeing Accords and Camry's on the road. Everyone has one. However, I don't want to spend my paycheck on tons of repairs. Let me know guys. Thanks.

one2one · March 2001

I've got a '98 with over 72,000 miles. I've had a great experience with mine with only 2 major problems (rusted rear brake rotors and steering shaft). Both covered under warranty.

That being said, stay away from '98s. While mine turned out well, it was also a later build. If you buy used, you have no real idea of when it was built without going into a lot of hassle with the dealer. I'd say look at 2000 and later. Plus, with a 2000 you're certain to get the 3.5 engine. Some 1999s have the 3.5 others have the 3.8.

Despite GM's stupidity, I plan on replacing my Intrigue with a 2001 or 2002 Midnight Blue GL.

b4z · March 2001

I believe that 2002 will be the last year that new oldsmobiles will be produced. I just don't believe that it will be five years. It doesn't make economic sense.

1415 · March 2001

one2one:::::::The build date is shown on a label affixed to the driver's door jamb. Either you got an exceptional 98 or you have ignored some of the Intrigue's glaring reoccurring maladies.

I will admit defeat on the fender liners as the cause of the front end noise. It is pure and simple the struts which rattle over the concrete slab roads. The only aftermarket strut is made by KYB-the Asian guys. Maybe somebody can advise me. The car can't be sold in this noisy condition.

Will continue this later today.

jjpowell2 · March 2001

Thought we may have an alignment problem with our new 2001 GL, but for some reason the dealer under-inflated the tires. The pressure was 26 PSI and recommended is 31 PSI. Think they were in a rush to get it ready for us. Filled to the right pressure and is a dream to drive. The feel is very similar to the old '86 Z-28 Camaro. A bit of a stiff ride but very responsive...and fast!

oscarz2 · March 2001

1415, Monroe has two designs for Intrigue: Reflex and Sensatrac. See Monroe.com
Apparently, the Sensatracs have softer valving and the Reflex units are new tech and more performance oriented but as explained to me by a suspension wizard, you can have ten people drive the same car and half will say too stiff and half will say too soft.

By the way, How come I never hear about the Olds LSS. I like the way it looks but have never driven one. Maybe I'll pick up a used one down the road. There is no discussion forum on it. Any comments on the LSS? Anyone?

ab348 · March 2001

A buddy of mine who posts here as Rocketman71 just bought a '97LSS. Nice car, he loves it with the exception of a flaw in the auto trans that apparently they all develop. And he has a clunky strut too. I should tell him to come over and post his impressions.

rbb2 · March 2001

I have a similar problem as 1415. Going slow over concrete slab roads I hear a rattle in the front end. It sounds like the drivers side. Once on the major roads I don't hear it. No noises when turning either. It's only when driving straight and slow (under 25 mph). I've had it to the dealer at least 8 times but to no avail. While testing, I have noticed that it appears to go away if I apply the brakes at least half way down driving in my sub which leads me to believe that the brakes may have something to do with it. I have a 2000 GL w/out PCS. Any thoughts?

1415 · March 2001

oscarz2:::::::Monore struts are borderline and they don't offer any for Intrigue. At 55k miles I had four Monore struts installed on a 94 LeSabre by the Buick dealer and they lasted to 100k and the tires started cupping/flatspotting by 113k miles.

Traded the car in on the 98 GLS which GM later purchased at 26k due to my great stories; and I added $700 to the refund check; bought the 99GLS w/3.5 which has endured 38k miles.

Back to the struts---Bilstein, Monore, and Koni do not offer struts for Intrigues--however any W-body replacement should work..

You mentioned LSS--brings up a story---I originally ordered a 98 LSS; when it arrived I was not in love with it. Its an old fashioned car and the biggest items under the hood were the coolant recovery bottle and the windshield washer fluid container. I opted for the Intrigue.. It was a mistake but hindsight is 100% so I make the best of it.

My 99 GLS has a new SLP exhaust system and a new extended warranty from GM..If GM tells me that they will not replace the front struts; then I cancel the warranty policy(free of charge; buy the after market strut and sell it..

I don't hot rod any car; but I drive fast which doesn't really destroy any of the mechanical items with undue strain.. The damn front end is noisy beyond anybody's wildest dream and that is not a common trait. I am fed-up with the service mgr. at the selling dealer since they have "5" 98 Intrigues' purchased at the auction which they use for service loaners and they have noisy front ends. GM will not pay the dealer to replace the struts; so I come along and guess what???? Its an Intrigue characteristic!!!!!

rbb2::::::You have a 98 or 99..????

With GM phasing out the 3.5; there must be a reliability problem or an emissions shortfall!!

Since I own my piece of junk I become the loser; the people that lease could care less and GM bites the bullet for their sorry showing..

The wife is going back to Flordia for a couple weeks at Sarasota so I must remember to start the Caddy. I will be home to work and start thinking about why should I work????

Hope the stock market stays positive long enough to unload some stuff quickly.

b4z · March 2001

The people who question whether or not the 3.5L is going away should go back in this forum to last summer.
The reports were that every other division was getting the new mid lux platform except for olds.
to me that meant no more olds. But others on this forum wanted to debate it.
The 3.5L is going away and i am willing to bet that 2002 is the last year for new olds product.
I am with 1415 on this one. There is a reason that the 3.5 will not have a future. I am guessing cost. But emissions or durability could also be the reason.

vcjumper · March 2001

The sooner they stop operating, the sooner they stop losing money building Olds products that don't sell enough to break even, but the Olds dealers won't be too happy if they are shut down that quickly.

I doubt there is much of a reliability problem with the 3.5 any more than the Aurora 4.0 or other Northstar motors, but I sure hope mine is reliable as parts are going to be mighty expensive for such a rarely produced and discontinued motor. It may just be too expensive to produce for the Intrigue and cars they were hoping to expand its use into to make sense in the long run.

etharmon · March 2001

I still would like to see somne "official" reports that the 3.5 is being dropped before I lose any sleep. To me, it just seems like a bad move after the money GM spent developing this engine. And I don't believe it is THAT expensive to build as it does share some basic design traits with the Northstar V8s and it doesn't have extra features like variable valve timing so I just don't see how it it overly expensive to produce. Sure, compared to 3400s and 3800s it is expensive, but dammit GM if you want to run with the big dogs your going to have to put forth some expense to keep your product up to date. And if they would start using the 3.5 in other applications(i.e. Impala, LeSabre, Saturn LS, Catera, etc) they could ammortize costs quicker. Come on GM bean counters, I'm a political science major and I can tell you that much, surely you guys can use your MBAs a little more. Emissions was one of the reasons the 3.5 was developed in the first place as the aging 3800 could not meet future standards. I hope Harlan or somebody from GM is on here and reading this because they need to. If you guys want to continue to play second fiddle to other automakers then carry on with your 3100s, 3400s, and even(gulp) 3800 engines. Nevermind that you just spent millions developing a V6 which is excellent and has further potential and lasty, nevermind that you are TURNING YOUR BACKS on customers and potential customers!! I've always liked GM products and have often defended them against the pro-import arguments, but I don't know that I can stand by and watch too many more bone headed decisions made by guys in suits who no ABSOLUTELY nothing about cars sitting in an office in Detroit. Whats amazing is that GM has been able to produce some of the excellent products they have now with such poor management at the top. Just imagine, if they actually had some "car guys" like some of us working for them. Hell, Ford, Honda, and Toyota would be running for cover. As it stands now, GM is going to continue to lose market share and sales will drop and another division or two will be gone in 5 years or so. As some have said before, in the end GM will be Cadillac, Saab, Chevrolet, Saturn, and maybe GMC truck. Just wonder what kind of dumb decision they will make next, drop the Northstar V8 because it's too expensive to build? Ooops, I hope none of the bean counters read that last line. From Knoxville TN to Detroit, I'm giving you guys at GM a loud WAKE-UP! call.

1415 · March 2001

A member at our golf club works in the GM engineering bldg in Warren, Mich and he is a big 3.8 fan and his comments about the 3.5 were very similar to how he described the 3.4 dohc when it was being readied. His comment was stay away from both engines..

etharmon:::::::You asked about in another forum a question about the Touring versions of Olds and Buick. After my wifes 82 Z-28 was sold; I bought her a new 87 T-Type Electra, white with red leather. Had three round trips to Delray Beach Fla and I remember that I flat-spotted all 4 tires on the second trip and threw them away before 25k miles. They were Goodyear GTs. Sold the car to my neighbor at around 35k miles. I believe he keep it until around 90k. Buick suspension sucks.

Noticed lately when running the engine 3.5 at slow speeds when cold; any acceleration exposes a valve tick-tick which disappears after its warms-up..Checked the oil tonight for it changed Tuesday and I have piled about 500 miles and it was right up to the top mark; and soo clean it was hard to read.

When I had the new exhaust system installed I was under the car for the first time, and it looks brand new, no rust or oil wetness anywhere. In fact, the engine/transmission and body undercarriage are fairly streamlined; well aero shaped and quite compact in the belly area.

I am going to call a KYB installer tomorrow to find out the cost of the installed struts for the Intrigue. The KYB website lists local installers. The pricing was found on some suspension warehouse website located in Margate, Fla.. which stocks the KYB struts..

b4z · March 2001

The 3.4 DOHC motor was dropped after only a couple of years of production, so GM is just being true to form.
KYB's are quite popular with taxi drivers in New York, they say that they are the only shocks that can take the constant beating of the potholed roads. I understand that they will last forever.
Although, i have 200,00 miles on the bilsteins in my camaro. They are a harder riding shock, which the intrigue doesn't need.

b4z · March 2001

While they are good looking cars, they don't have the structural rigidity that the intrigue has.
I also don't like the low seating position.

dindak · March 2001

I don't really care if the 3.5L is on it's way out. While it's a very good engine, it is expensive to make. If it's expensive to make, GM should look for a more efficient DOHC V6 to replace it with. The new I-6 is proof that GM can use it's head an make a great engine for less. While I don't buy that they will only build the 3.5L for 1-2 more years, I do believe the Intrigue will be gone for 2003. It's still not selling well and production of the other w-bodies will be centered in Oshawa by then.

dindak · March 2001

Looks like the Toronto area will get hit with the tail of that nor-easter today. Already have an inch on the ground. Looks like I'll get to use my snow blower one last time!

dindak · March 2001

Intrigue is great, but avoid the 98s if possible and if you get a 99, make sure it has the 3.5L twin cam. Much smoother than the 3.8L, though the 3.8L is pretty good also. Good luck!

1415 · March 2001

The 3.4 found its way into Grand Prixs, Olds Cutlasses, Chevy Luminas,and the Camaro/Firebird group. It was a huge V-6 and was a polluter to boot. Had a rubber belt for the timing linkage..

I was talking to neighbor of my daughter's in Florida last month and his son had a 94 Camaro with the 3.4 w/manual transmission. Remember him saying that it had 170k miles and was getting a new water pump. Never got close to the car but it looked mint from across the street and sounded super going down the street--little rework of the exhaust system. They seemed happy.

dindak::::::Detroit is in forecast for snow; very light though.. My wife has a 9:15 flight to Sarasota this evening; I can see it being cancelled with all the problems on the east coast. It was a last minute booking on Friday afternoon luckily she used her flier miles for the ticket; otherwise it was a $650.00 idea. I see a couple chip stocks announced bad news so that sector will get creamed today. I flip/flop ATML and ALTR frequently and I almost dumped them Friday; but came up short. The Nasdq collasped the
last 30 minutes.

b4z::::::Thanks for the strut tip; I like firm ones, just not rattlers.

infinia1 · March 2001

the camaro/firebird didn't have the dohc. in fact i believe the f cars were the first application of the upsized 3.1, making it the current 3.4 in todays gm minis and the impala/grandam/alero. since i've heard of many problems with the dohc, the camaro you (1415) spoke of couldn't have made it to 170k miles flawlessly. anyone agree or disagree?

teo · March 2001

This engine was also offered in the mid 1990's Chevy Lumina Z34 coupe. The main problem with this engine was that it was never a cammed engine design from the ground up...rather it was an OHV (Pushrod) motor converted to a Twin cam engine essentially on the fly, hence all the excessive reliability problems owners of these cars had to endure due to the short cut design and production approach. GM pulled the plug on the 3400 DOHC in the 1995 model year when the re-designed Lumina was introduced and the coupe was renamed to Monte carlo.

The current 3400 OHV V6 offered in the Aztek/Rendezvous, all GM Minivans, Olds Alero, Pontiac Grand AM GT and Base Chevy Impala is IN NO WAY related to the old 3400 DOHC engine. The OHV 3.4L has been very reliable so far.

Think of this approach as having GM take the current OHV 3800 and convert it into a DOHC engine....lots of problems in the process.

The current family of Northstar engines can trace their origins back to the noisy Quad 4 DOHC engine offered in the late 1980's and early 1990's. That engine was a school of taught for GM in the development and production of cammed powerplants but certainly the 3400 DOHC was not.

dindak · March 2001

Snowing hard right now. Kind of depressing as the snow was all gone and spring was in the air last week. Looks like we will get about foot the way its going!

1415 · March 2001

I certainly did not say that it was trouble free nor did I say it was troublesome!!!!! I said they seemed happy with the Camaro and its service.. I really don't believe they ever put the 3.1 in any F body..

I bought a new 79 Firebird for my daughter when she went off to college and it was a small V-6 with a displacement less 3000; something around 2310???? It also had an auto trans.

I drove one of the 3.4 twin cam Luminas and had the 92 Regal GS appraised for trade-in. I ducked the bullet and took the Regal out at 95K with a beautiful cash sale and the buyer never drove it until he backed out of the driveway; driving away into the sunset.

teo:::::::Great display of Chevy depth--never had experience with any of the 3.4 engines and they don't sound too exciting.. A corporate driven engine that is cheap to build yet light enough to stick in Aleros and Grand Ams to give that feeling of power..

j_coleman · March 2001

teo: My grandfather has a '95 Lumina LS with the 3.4 DOHC and dual exhaust. How could they have pulled the plug on it that year?

teo · March 2001

You might be correct. I don't think the 3400 DOHC V6 was produced after the '95 model year. I don't recall seeing '96 and up Luminas with this engine. Actually the Lumina LTZ models (Replacement for the Z34) feature the 3800 Series II V6 instead.

b4z · March 2001

The 3.1 was never in the fbody, but the 2.8 was.
Started out at 102 hp and got up to 140 hp by the time they quit with it. The current fbody came out in '93. It came with a 160 hp 3.4L pushrod motor. I believe this motor could go 170,000 miles. No way the 3.4L DOHC could go 170,000 without constant maintenance.

infinia1 · March 2001

i didn't say the f body ever came with the 3.1-i said it was a 3.4 (based on the 3.1). my point was that the camaro you were talking about had the 3.4 pushrod and not the dohc 3.4. i never meant to say that you thought the camaro was trouble fee or troublesome. chill.

1415 · March 2001

The 3.8 powered Camaro is a neat little pkg with the optional Performance Handling Option. It avoids the insurance surcharge which my agent will increase some $1000/yr if I go the Z-28 route.

Mustang GT is only about $350 more a year.

I have no points and no accidents on my record.

The front struts KYB brand for a 99 Intrigue are $102.03 ea.+frt+installation which must include an alignment. Total cost will be around $350.00 for the front..

teo · March 2001

Why don't you trade the Intrigue for a new Camaro 3800?? How about the convertible?

oscarz2 · March 2001

1415,
Where are you getting your info? The maker of Monroe struts (Tenneco Automotive) say they make two designs for Intrigue: Reflex and Sensatrac. Shockwarehouse.com said the Sensatracs are available for Intrigue at $58ea (front) and $49ea (rear) with an available boot and jounce bumper kit for another $12 or so. They also said Reflex would be available for Intrigue soon. Maybe I was misled.

Don't get me wrong, I know zero about struts. I'm just trying to rectify conflicting information. The only reason I'm interested in Sensatracs is they are promoted as having softer valving for a smoother ride. I figure handling may be sacrificed
although there's no way to know for sure without examining the ride for oneself. Handling is good on my Intrigue so if it drops to marginal for a less HaRsH ride, I can deal with that.

I was under the impression that KYB specializes in the japanese suspensions, no? Maybe the web page I got that idea from was for another maker that I've confused with KYB.

At any rate, sounds like you may jump before I, regarding struts. Anxious to know the result.

jg28 · March 2001

I, too, am amazed that GM would develop such a "world class" engine and then scrap it. But everyone should remember that GM spent 3 BILLION DOLLARS!!!! with updating Oldsmobile and they're dumping it.

My alternator is being replaced today. I sure hope that solves the problem. I felt good about my service advisor today (even though he gave me guff for taking the car somewhere else for oil change and tire rotation ($32 verses $75 at this place). When I took it in, there was a lady with a 99 Intrigue just in front of me, bringing it hers in for the same reason. He thanked me for alerting him to this problem so that they could replace hers with the redesigned alternator even after they'd already ordered the old one. Made me feel warm and fuzzy knowing that he made the extra effort to order her a redesigned one instead of just slapping on an old one (remember I had my alternator replaced in November and it seemed to be fixed until it started flickering again recently).

My dealer is an Olds/Cadillac. They had a new Catera in the showroom. Kinda liked it actually )(it was really easy to get in and out of) but the dash seemed really cheap, the door was very solid and heavy, had a nice feeling. Anyway, I was looking on the sticker and it says 3.0L DOHC 6 cylinder. Where is that coming from? I didn't know GM made a 3.0 DOHC 6. Very sad to hear that our engines are going away. I don't believe one bit that they're proving unreliable or have emissions problems. I think the brand managers of the other divisions just don't want anything to do with something that used to be in Oldsmobile.

yurakm · March 2001

This fall had kind of low speed race with Camaro, traffic-light to traffic light. Both want to change lanes, crisscross, and both tried to be ahead.

Would never try this with Camaro, but it was in by blind spot, and with its low nose I thought this is a small car: Sentry, Civic, or Corolla. I was in Regal GS, and did not try hard. No performance shift, no spinning wheels, just moved from whole stop, than added a bit of gas.

When I looked at the rear view mirror before changing lanes, saw a wide low car far behind. Even checked the second time at side - expected a small car, and much closer. Sitting at the next traffic light checked again, and this time recognized Camaro.

The Camaro moved slow from stop. Probably, the driver is not great with stick. And it had not so great acceleration at all after peeking-up its speed.

At first, I was astonished. Than looked at specs, when returned home. Turned to be, a base Camaro with 3800 is simply no match for Regal GS or GP GTP. About second slower 0-60 acceleration, according to Edmunds.

I believe, it is also no match for Intrigue on highways, but faster from full stop.

1415 · March 2001

teo:::::::if the car slump keeps up they may be some good deals on 01s; but the 02 would probably be the best way to go.. No conv; too heavy and too expensive to insure; my allergies have become more prevelant with the sunroofs on both cars so a conv is a no-no..

Since next year is the last year some of the tooling will be getting a little ragged toward the end so any purchase should come at the beginning of the model run..Also be aware that car makers on build out situations have a habit of changing things and not letting the know. They just downgrade something and know body pays any attention. Case in point!!!

Had a 89 6000 SE 2.8 V-6 which had the STE suspension goodies and was just as tight at 90k miles as new. Sold to a private party.. Picked up a 91 6000 SE 3.1 V-6 larger wheels; but found out later no suspension upgrade--std 6000 setup. Never read the brochure or never even thought about. 91 6000 production was extremely limited and in fact I think after one month they stopped. Drove the beast 90k miles and it shook the whole way..Had the front brakes turned once; one alignment and a set of tires..If I would have read the brochure I would have realized it was not the same as the 89. The car had a 1500 mile history; the original owner was GM, car was stolen, stripping wheels, battery, and spare tire. Car was recovered and Pontiac dealer purchased it; replacing the missing items. They replaced the wheels with 14" and I told them that 15" was std so another couple weeks the wheels were replaced. I beat up the price for a couple days and bought the poor thing. It was a fair deal; but not the 89 handling.

dindak · March 2001

The 3.0L is made in England. by GM/Vaxhall. It's very similar to the engine in the Saturn LS300. VERY nice engine. I think production will be moved to the U.S. and the engine will be moving into other cars. I know it will be going into the Saturn VUE come the fall.

ickes · March 2001

The 3.0l V-6 is also used in the Saab 9-5, Opel/Vauxhall Omega (of which the Catera and Holden Commodore are clones) and also next size down Opel/Vauxhall Vectra (the donating bin for the LS).

As for the 3.5, I have read in Pop Mech. and other places that GM will use this motor in the new CTS (Catera replacement), which is based on the new rear wheel drive Sigma plaform.

lee18 · March 2001

Production of the 3.0L V6 for North America will be done in Ste. Catharines Ontario (and in England for Europe). The 3.0L will be reworked with more aluminum parts and electronic controls to become the code named 'Electron' engine, which will supposedly be the mainstay engine for GM well into the future. Its modular design is supposed to make for more economical production and spawn a family of such engines, hence the elimination of the 3.5L V6.

dindak · March 2001

ickes: The last couple of articles I have seen w.r.t. the 2002 CTS mention do not mention the 3.5L as the engine. They spoke of another one which escapes me now.

lee18 : I didn't realize St Catherines was getting production of the 3.0L. That's great. An engineering buddy from university used to work at that plant, but I'm not sure if he still does. I lost touch with him a few years ago.

winter9 · March 2001

I read in the Intrigue brochure that, among other things, with the PCS package you get the Magnasteer II magnetically controlled steering system. I assume that the non-PSC-equipped Intrigues get the standard Magnasteer system, but nowhere can I find words to confirm that. I checked the Delphi web site (delphiauto.com) and found some info on both systems, it appears that the Mag II system is a bit more sophisticated - touted as the "next generation" steering system. Does anyone know if indeed the new non-PSC Intrigues have the MAG "I" systems vs. the II's? Does anyone know if the II's really do work any better? Thanks.

etharmon · March 2001

The 3.4 liter DOHC V6 should not be compared to the 3.5. Thats a disgrace to the 3.5. The 3.4 DOHC V6 was in production from 1991 to 1997 although I think they phased it out midway through 97. Believe it or not, the Intrigue was originally going to get this engine. The DOHC 3.4 was a 3.1 liter OHV V6 that was "converted" to DOHC. It had pretty good power output, but for a DOHC engine it was not all that smooth and was raspy in the high end. And the engine proved to be fairly troublesome. Believe me, us 98 Intrigue owners were done a favor when Olds decided to use the 3800 instead. In fact, had the original Intrigues had the 3.4, I would not have leased one. The 3.5 was a DOHC V6 from the start. I remember reading an article on it's development and it was mentioned that GM simply didn't cut two cylinders off a Northstar, but rather they took one cylinder of a Northstar and duplicated it 6 times. Kind of a cute analogy, but it makes sense. Today's 3400 OHV V6 is related to the DOHC 3.4 only in that the 3400 was derived from the 3100 which itself was derived from the 3.1 which is what spawned the 3.4 DOHC engine. Confused now. And F-bodies did use the 3.1 liter V6 from 89 or 90 until the new style arrived in 93. Also, while the original Quad 4 was a DOHC learning experience for GM, it and the Northstar V8 are in no way related except that they run on gasoline and have 2 cam shafts atop each cylinder bank. 1415 is correct in that the DOHC 3.4 uses a rubber cog belt to drive the camshafts. The 3.0 liter DOHC V6 in the Catera is a GM of Europe engine it has a 54 degree angle if I'm not mistaken. And it uses timing belts as well. IMO, the Catera is just begging for the 3.5. And a stick.

b4z · March 2001

I am curious why the 3.0 uses a 54 degree design.
60 degrees is optimal for a V6 due to its number of cylinders and firing order. The honda is a 60 degree design and is as smooth as silk.
There are packaging efficiencies with a narrow angle design, that a 90 degree can't equal. A 90 degree does have more room for the intake runners which will help low and midrange torque and power.
A 90 degree requires a balance shaft to smooth it out some.
Due to its width the 3.5L would probably not fit in the mini van chassis that GM is currently using.
It looks like the uses for the 3.5 are limited to the midsize and large cars. Not enough volume for what GM needs. The fbody is going away, so that is not a potential candidate either.
Too bad.

b4z · March 2001

Hope you didn't think i was comparing the 3.4L to the 3.5L. I was comparing the decision to drop them.

dindak · March 2001

GM makes more mid size cars than anyone in North America, so I think there is lots of volume available for the 3.5L. From what I understand, it's an expensive engine to manufacture and that is the real issue. I wonder if the 3.0L will find it's way into the Regal or the Grand Prix. It seems small, but I guess the Catera gets well over 200HP out of it.

1415 · March 2001

etharmon::::::Please give the V-6 displacement that was in the 79 Firebird. It was small and I somehow remember that the auto trans was not a great piece of GM machinery.

oscarz2:::::::I can't locate the Monroe pricing on the shockwarehouse website. Every time I plug in all the numbers it spits out the KYB pricing which is 60.15+11.81-boot/bumpstop+30.07-upper mount. I will try again today.

Had to take wife to airport last night and I-94 was a skating rink for 35 miles going to Metro and well salted coming back. 30 min trip took 1 1/2 hrs going; got back to the house and the fax/computer line was out of order--watched the boop tube and see we picked up some more snow this am.

Thanks for the help on struts--talked to my Firestone tire storeowner and he will not do the KYB strut. He will do Monroes; but he is still peeved about when I had the Monroes installed by the Buick dealer.

jg28:::::::Your Cadillac/Olds dealer is a thief--$75 for oil change/tire rotation should also include "dinner for two", martinis extra!!! Consider your self lucky not to own a Catera--its a 3700# tank with the reliability of a Yugo.. It has a resale value similiar to the Intrigue..

yurakm::::::The dual exhausted 3800 Camaro uses a higher axle ratio so it would probably cream the 3.5 up to 60mph; but after that watch out. Camaro is too heavy to offer much excitement with 200hp. and probably would be great for me the AARPer. My nearby Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer has a leftover 00 Trans Am for 21995 and he also has 4 used Intrigues, 3 Aleros, and 2 Auroras.. A 99 Aurora is listed for 19,995 showing 16k miles..

Here is a real eye-opener on the same used car lot is a 99 Acura 3.2TL for 22,995 and a 99 Intrigue GLS for 14,995..That type of a spread is hard to accept..Hate to post this data for "jgriff" could really get into trouble.. However if you approach it from the logical beginning the TL owners pay sticker and we Intrigue owners bask in rebates and discounts.

Got to go get dressed and meet my attorney for discussion/lunch/lawsuit...

white6 · March 2001

My Michael Lamm Camaro book lists the '79 Camaro six as being a 250 ci I-6 (115 hp, 200 ft/lb; single-barrel carb). Perhaps the Firebird used a V-6... I don't have a Firebird book! I wish I had been able to find a 2000 Firebird with the Performance Package (dual exhaust, limited slip, 3.42 instead of 3.23, 235/55-16 tires) but when you buy a left-over, pickings can be slim. I am still planning on selling the 3800 Firebird and grabbing a 310-hp Formula while they are still in production. BTW, my insurance agent quoted me figures of $342/6 months on 3800; $415/6 months on Formula. Wish I had checked before purchasing the 3800 model. I also ordered a leather package from Lambert in Mississippi; $700+shipping (~$100) for front seats, back seats, and door panels in Ebony leather... came out of a 2000 TA total (head-on). I slap it in the 3800 if I wind up keeping it, or save it for the black Formula if I sell the 3800.
Olds called yesterday and asked if I was happy with my Intrigue... told them, yeah, after spending three months trying to get an alternator that worked. Funny thing is, we called Oldsmobile several times during that fiasco. Guess their in-house communications is about as good as their marketing.

tpken · March 2001

I shoveled 16 inches and 2 ft drifts this morning - still coming down steady. Not many out around here in Boston north area.

Ken

one2one · March 2001

We got next to nothing here in Philly. Yeah, we got a "wintry mix" of freezing rain and snow but nothing to really stop the world. The last snow was worse a couple of weeks ago. To look outside one would think that it didn't even rain.

teo · March 2001

Not a single cloud in the sky...cool and breeze 68F...and sunny!

No snow to worry about!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

b4z · March 2001

Pontiac had a 196 CID version in the 70's. Might have been a different engine. I seem to remember a 229 CID also. Maybe it was a Chevy. I think it was available in the malibu and impala. This was different from the 3800 buick motor.
Do you guys remember the 4.1L 252 CID version that was available in the early 80's?It came in the lesabre.
Back to the pontiac. I remember that this was originally an odd fire engine. That was converted into an even fire. It was available in the firebird and lemans.
In the 70's and 80's GM was still using different engines for most divisions.The cutlass GT was still available with the 307 CID in 1987.

dindak · March 2001

Here in west Toronto we got about a foot of snow. It's quite wet and soggy, typical of March snow. Lots of fun! Thank God I have a snow blower.

One year report on my Intrigue coming later this week.

Oldsmobile Intrigue

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