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This car was to compete with the Maximas and V6 Accord's of this world. If the car had a bench, the sales would have been worse than they were.
As for problems, I have had very few compared with previous cars. One replaced temp gauge and a blown light in the dash is all that's been fixed so far. I do need to have the "flicker" looked at this winter though and I may have the intermediate shaft issue though it seems to have disappeared now.
b4z, I've never driven a 300M but I've read many reviews that remarked it's vibration at idle. Same goes for the new Sebring sedan. Thats a shame because both are very good looking cars and could have been seen as possible Intrigue replacements. Other than an occasion shudder at idle, the Intrigue's 3.5 is as smooth as a Northstar V8.
sales, maybe someone has some figures to back me up, but I believe that for the 98 and 99 model year the Intrigue sold close to 90K units annually. 00s were slightly off that number then 01s took a big downward turn.
oldsman : Stopped in the local Saab shop on Sunday and looked over the new Saab. Beautiful car. I want to test one at some point, but the reviews I have read on the car are for the most part, absolutely glowing.
You might know the answer to this b4z, does the new 03 Impala LS have a different tail this year? I saw one in the lot when I got my oil changed Friday.
on the tailights.
2003 Impala Sport is identical.
As for a replacement, I'm still leaning towards the Acura 3.2 TL Sport. I'm a former Saab owner. Good cars, but its a "been there, done that" for me. Only one Saab dealer in the town I lived in and they treated you like they knew you had no where else to go.
Make sure if you get a Saab, you've got more than one dealership to choose from for service. If you get one with an "attitude" like I did, then it can definatley negatively impact the total ownership experience The next nearest dealer service department to me was 250 miles away!
pgl1, I remember those ads. They ran before the X-files ads did and also for a while afterwards until about mid 99 or so then Intrigue advertising pretty much disappeared.
For the same bucks I'd rather hop in to a loaded Maxima, a 9-3 or for a few bucks more a CTS.
All of my experiences with that car company have been negative.
It is still a 4 cylinder car.
Ths CTS looks to me like it had a head-on collision with a brick wall. Car and Driver summed it up for me when it said "The CTS makes a bold statement - problem is, we can't figure out what language it's speaking." Compared to the Acura, it's engine is coarser at high revs, ride is harsher over rough pavement, and steering is heavier. The dealer told me people's reaction has been either they love it or hate it - no middle ground. I'm in the latter group.
I've driven several Maxima's as rental cars - they're nice, but nowhere as refined as the Acura. Nissan's sports/luxury car is the Infiniti, not the Maxima. The new G35 is a more appropriate comparison to the Acura 3.2 TL than the Maxima.
As for Saab, as I said, I've been there.
The Acura doesn't say WOW, but it has a nice conservative, seamless appeal to me. That rear-end of the Maxima looks like the designers got in a hurry by the time the got to the back of the car - it looks bolted on, and not in synch with the rest of the car's styling.
You're right about performance - to me, when you're sitting behind the wheel, "looks" takes a back seat to perfomance.
navigator3740 : Killing the Olds name is a BIG mistake for sure. 100+ years of history down the tubes, stupid move by GM. What they should have done is cut the models in both Buick and Olds (say 3 vehicles each) and given them each a niche.
True, but when I look in the driveway or show a friend, I want to say wow. I just couldn't live with the dull looks but that's me. Good luck with the purchase.
Have you tested a CTS? I found it handled better than the TL and I certainly didn't find the engine courser (though it did lack the power of the TL).
It would have been better if they had just the name of Oldsmobile to Aurora. At least the heritage of Olds would have carried on.
Saturn ION looks real good and the L-series is much improved so I think sales will pick up considerably. All that said, they still should never have killed Olds.
I drove a TL-S and other than second gear which was SWEET it underwhelmed me, especially handling wise. Now the 03 Accord probably outdoes it in alot of aspects. Lots of people have put the TL/CL sway bars on their Accords. Haven't tried a G35 yet but I'd hope its better being RWD and having a broader torque curve. Coupe is quite the looker.
dindak::: I have disagree with you, old friend. The decision to can Olds and save Saturn doesn't appear to have been a financial decision. Saturn was, is and probably will continue to loose money. What you say about the mindset of Saturn buyers is true. But, if I was a betting man (I'm not :-) I'd say that most Saturn buyers are uninformed about car manufacturers in general, aren't "car people" and probably think Saturn isn't domestic. So any car that "looks" like it came from Japan and didn't have a domestic manufacturer's logo is OK to them. Just to prove my point, look how many people refused to buy a Chevy Prizm but thought a Toyota Corolla was a better "quality" car, not realizing that with the exception of the bowtie they were the EXACT same vehicle assembled at the same plant? Listen for comments like this about the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota twin.
If GM pumped the money in Oldmobile (along with the "Intrigue" nameplate) as it did/does into Saturn - along with catchy commercials - Olds probably would have made money. If GM did what they should have, import buyers would have (and some did) bought Oldsmobiles.
Saturn is GM's baby. And for whatever reason they're going to make it work even if they only sell 2 cars a year. Their numbers look as bad as Olds; so from a fiscal standpoint, Saturn should be history too.
Meanwhile Olds had an Intrigue that just needed a bit more refinement, an Aurora that needed some marketing push, and an Alero that was popular right out of the box. All of them could run rings around anything Saturn makes. And yet Saturn lives and Olds is gone.
It's a tragic case of corporate incompetence.
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Getting rid of the Cutlass name was not the problem. People my age just will not drive anything named Cutlass, I don't care if they took a BMW 5 Series and rebadged it with "Cutlass" (I'm not really talking about myself, but my friends) All of them love the Intrigue and the Alero. When my girlfriend was looking at buying a used Malibu (before she got her Alero), I showed her a used '98 Cutlass than had fewer miles and more options next door to the '98 Malibu we were looking at, and she said flat out "no way I am ever driving a Cutlass." Olds knew that too many people younger than 50 felt that way so they axed it in favor of nicer sounding names. (And if you ask me, Intrigue is perhaps one of the best car names EVER...I mean, think about it, its a little exciting, classy, sophisticated...intriguing! Brilliant!) Alero...well, that's another story. But anyway, the problem was just not enough promotion of a good product, and trying to have two companies (Saturn and Olds) vying for the 'import' customers. Interestingly, btw, Alero sales were quite strong last year and remain strong this year, currently Alero is ranked around #26 among sales in the US.
TSchramm, the TL offers alot of features and decent performance, but my problem with it is the car is nothing more than a fancy Accord. I've said this before, but imageine that flack that GM would have gotten if they simply dressed up an Intrigue and passed it off as a new entry level Cadillac.
Names, had the Intrigue been called the Cutlass Supreme I still would have bought it had everything else been the same. I guess I'm just not a "badge snob" like much of the today's automobile shoppers are. Intrigue, Cutlass Supreme, INT3.5, or whatever it's the car that counts not the name.
one2one : I totally realize Saturn makes no money, but it does attract young import oriented people to GM which is something no other domestic name is able to do. That is the attraction and I understand it. I didn't say I agreed with it. GM is finally putting money into Saturn and the Sky and new Ion look very promising. I hope it pays off for them, but killing Olds was a mistake regardless.
ab348 : Center IP is no big deal. Ever driven a car with one?? It really is easier to see and it takes very little time to adjust to. My monitor at work is off to the right of my desk, same thing.. big deal. The car itself is getting very good reviews. Killing Olds was a bad idea, but it's too late to go back so they may as well go full steam with Saturn and make Buick everything Olds should have been. I even hear an entry level Buick may be in the works which I look forward to seeing.
Now, you and I know it's all GM under the plastic - coarse, unrefined, noisy and brittle. But the schoolteachers who drive them, and they're not all young, BTW, think they have anything BUT a GM car. If they tried a Honda, they'd understand what they really have.
One magazine (C&D?) said that it might be Honda's first misstep.
One2one: Great point about the Corolla/Prism. But it isn't just uninformed buyers. I'm convinced that if you sent a new Camry (or ES 300) to Car & Driver with a Chevy (or heaven forbid, Buick) badge on it, they would deride it as an ugly, boring car with lack-luster acceleration and questionable reliability. They are worse than the uninformed public because they are supposed to be well-informed media. They probably have worse biases than most import buyers.
I agree, Saturn needs more cars so people can stay with them longer but, progress is being made. The VUE is out now and the reskinned LS has chalked up some decent reviews. More needs to be done but I don't think there are the numbers of people you claim who don't know Saturn is domestic or GM (or both).
Here in Canada all Saturn dealers are also Saab and Isuzu dealer so people can stay with the same dealership and move up the GM import lines with their incomes. I think GM should do the same in the US, it make sense. I have seen a number of homes with an Isuzu or Saab in the driveway with a Saturn beside it.
Saturn is not perfect and it needs a lot of money and product, but after Chevy and Cadillac, it's GM's most important division in my opinion. Even people that hate GM admit, Saturn has a good reputation and that says a lot about it's potential if they can get the product out.
My experience is that Saturn has a very mixed reputation. Nobody thinks their vehicles are anything special and the original ones developed a terrible reputation for oil consumption and engine failure. Plus there are a number of people who believe they are unsafe cars due to the fire hazard of their body material.
You ought to know that magazines almost always say nice things about cars when they are just introduced. A year later they sing a different tune. Let's wait on the Ion.
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As for the reputation, Saturns year after year top ranking in customer satisfaction and service speaks for it self. Facts are facts, I'm not making this up. The Saturn name is gold, GM just has to give them more good product.
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I also set the temp at 74 but don't use the economy mode. The defroster does come on and I can feel cool air but it isn't uncomfortable. The only time I can say it is cold is when I first start the car. That, too, is to be expected since the car hasn't warmed up yet.
I've never really liked the Economy mode.... In the summer it's not cold enough or feels the same as when the window is down. In the winter, Economy makes my windows fog so I don't use it then either. Try turning it off and see how you like it.
Out of curiosity, I called and the used car manager answered and I jokingly asked if these were "damaged goods" He said no, but ever since production discontinued, the value of used Intrigues has dropped like a rock - within weeks they've come down $2-3K. He said even current his current KBB is not keeping up with the devaluation. Said same thing happened with the 88 and 98 - prices fell through the floor right after they were discontinued.
But he invited me to come drive one - said "these are great cars and they won't be here long at these prices". I'll bet.
Shameful!
And isn't the Intrigue really just a gussied-up base Grand Prix? Same factory, same parts bin, same dealerships? Reshape the sheet metal and drop in a different engine, and you've got an Intrigue.
I really wonder how well the CTS is selling. I drive by a Cadillac dealer on the way to work every day and the same 4 CTS' have been sitting there for weeks. They move them around, but they're still there. I have seen only one on the street in the months it has been out, and it probably belongs to one of the salesmen.
Do they really think they're going to attract someone seriously considering Audi, BMW, a Lexus GS or other more established, proven luxo/sport cars? Or are they just going for the guy who wants to trade up from his Aurora?
Lots of them around and the local dealer never has more than 1 or 2 on the lot.
Don't worry, they are selling well.
I don't doubt now is a good time to buy a used Intrigue, but I have to wonder where on earth you live. In these parts Intrigue prices are nowhere near that! I shopped extensively for a used Intrigue before deciding that my new one was a better buy. Over and over I ran into '00s with around 30k and couldn't find them for less than $14, more for an '01 with the same mileage. The absolute best I could find where a few '99s with mid-30s for $12.5 (one and the condition was not very good)-$13.5k. Anything under 20k miles was over $15k. I do live in an expensive area, but still...Do a search on autotrader if you don't believe me, you won't find anything even close to what you are describing. I must wonder about exactly how these particular Intrigues were acquired and exactly what their background was.
Anyone have any used car sales advice??
Ive got the car on autotrader.com now (46038 zip), I've tried the local newspaper, sitting the car at busy intersections, ect. It's got a fresh wax job, newer tires, clean body, so I don't think it's giving off a bad impression