Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

fuzzo · June 2001

Can someone give me advise on what I need to apply on the car to reduce paint chipping. I read in the earlier post that maguires is good. This past weekend, I was at a truck show and maguires had a booth... but i didn't know exactly what to get.

My other question is how hard is it apply these and approximately how long does it take. I don't have any buffing tools etc.

tlam625 · June 2001

Flew into Munich last Friday for a 10 days trip in Europe. Car rental com gave me a C200 turbo diesel. Thought it going to be a dog!
Not quite so, after a few days on the road. What a surprise, this is a nice version of the C series comparing with my c320 back home.

The car has >10k miles on it, been broken in. Its with 6 speed manual and basically the classic or c240 cloth seat interior.

This car feels almost as powerful as my US version of the c320. The manual shift makes the car alive. Engine runs at 3k rpm at 100 mph with sixth gear. Plenty of power beyond this speed. Good pick up acceleration from 2k to 4k rpm. Haven't find out top speed as there's no safe opp yet. Interestingly, the command console has an option to select or disable the top speed limiter! The English language option is still avail on the menu.
The shifter and cluth are light and they are easy to use.

I do find this C200 suspension feels tighter than my US version of the c320. The shocks are definately of diff settings.
I had always felt my c320 a bit loose and soft on US freeway and this confirm my thought. It is a shame that MB needs to downgrade the suspension for the US spec cars, probably for our poor road cond.
The autobarn is as smooth as silk, no road joins, no pot holes. How did they do that? (Everyone pay 40% tax bracket?)

Fuel enconomy is incredible. Ran 450 miles and tank is still at one quarter full! Yes, there´s some diesel engine noise, but I only hear it at first or 2nd gears.

About the only thing that disappointed me is the remote door lock. It works 20% of the time.

Overall, this is a fun, solid and practical car.

mleskovar · June 2001

The amount of protection afforded by wax/polish/sealant etc. is minute. We like to think it helps but be realistic. A wipe on wipe off coating that does more than shine? I know, I still polish my car when I think it's getting too many chips. I tell myself it deflects particles/objects better and "holds the edges" of the paint together.
But it doesn't do any of that, and I know it, but I like the shine.

liman · June 2001

for your interesting post. Lots of good information there. I have a C230K and to me it is amazing what MB can do with small displacement engines. Also not surprised to hear the suspension settings are firmer. See you later.

bankoh · June 2001

bankoh · June 2001

mcync, how much did you pay for your extended warranty?

kenyee · June 2001

The diesel feels powerful because of the torque. That number is actually more important than HP at low to medium speeds.
I wish our diesel were clean enough to bring the Euro diesels over :-P

fuzzo · June 2001

I understand that waxing the car is not going to help much if any regarding the paint chips. I would like the shine as well.

I have never waxed myself, I always had someone do it for me but I would like to try it out myself, so that's why I am looking for something that gives good results but still easy enough to apply by a novice

I have also read about a product called zaino (sp) is this the easiest?

Thanks in advance

rowlandj · June 2001

Does anyone else have a problem with the AM reception in their C? When I compare the reception to my other vehicles it is pretty bad and I would like some feedback on whether this is "characteristic" for this model, or do I have a real problem with the radio and/or the antenna?

Thanks for any info.

JR

kenyee · June 2001

Read the directions at www.zainobros.com carefully, especially w/ the towels and wiping direction (hint: wax on wax off in a circular motion is the WRONG thing to do).
Commit to following the directions and you'll be amazed :-)
It is a bit of a pain initially if you do the claying. If you don't, it's not bad at all. The hard part is finding someplace to put your car to let each coat dry for 12hrs; if you have a garage, you're all set.

mleskovar · June 2001

go to www.autopia-carcare.com detailing forum if you want specifics. lots of expertise and patience. I like Klasse All In One topped with Klasse Sealant Glaze topped with Blitz wax.
Klasse is simple to apply and remove.

rs64 · June 2001

My FM is worse than my AM, but my other cars were better than the C240 overall. I have not yet asked my dealer about it, and there has been mention in the past in this forum of a bad connection in the headliner at the antenna.

c240_sj · June 2001

I have noticed the same problem. The CD changer was installed by the dealer. Could this problem be related to the installation?

rs64 · June 2001

I had the CD installed after I took delivery and the radio reception was poor before & after.

nanky · June 2001

I had my CD changer installed by the dealer as well and haven't had any problems with the AM nor FM receptions. I live in a hilly area where cell phone receptions are usually affected and have been very impressed with the radio reception.

fuzzo...wax/paint
Thanks to mikki, I tried the Klasse all-in-one as well as the sealant over the weekend. As msleskovar mentioned, both are very easy to apply and remove.

michhala · June 2001

>I understand that waxing the car is not going to >help much if any regarding the paint chips. I >would like the shine as well.

>I have never waxed myself, I always had someone >>do it for me but I would like to try it out >myself, so that's why I am looking for something >that gives good results but still easy enough to >apply by a novice

Fuzzo -- IMHO -- I have had experience with two black C320's -- I am blonde and fragile -- and I always had someone do my cars for me. My cars outshine the sun.

I use Klasse All-In-One, Klasse Sealer Glaze, and Eimann Clear Pearl quick detailer.

When I brought the second new car home, I, within minutes of driving into the garage, put on 2 coats of Klasse All-In-One. I did not remove anything. Klasse is a combination product of cleaner, polish, wax, protectant. Very, very, very easy and very, very, very fast. Without having to wait, I then put on the Klasse Sealer Glaze. Neither of these products contain silicone as does Meguiar's -- after much research, I do not put silicone on my cars. There are those who recommend removing everything the dealer has applied to a new car; but not necessary with All-In-One. In about 3 mos. I will repeat these applications and then it will be shiny and beautiful for at least 6 mos. My first 320 was still shiny after 6 mos, with only a one-time single application of All-In-One and no Sealer Glaze.

In between washings, or whenever I feel I want to do so, I lightly go over the car with the Original California Duster, and then spray on the Eimann Clear Pearl (which is especially good for black and red cars). This cleans and nourishes the paint, and I use to remove any spots, finger marks, Etc. from the paint. I use the Miracle Towel to do all this. Everything is available at:

http://www.properautocare.com/index.html

Ask for Terry -- he will answer any questions.

The URL given to you for AutopiaCarCare has good detailing tips and is affiliated with Proper Auto Care.

Miki

wolfx · June 2001

You are disappointed in mercedes because you dont see value in what you're getting. But if your logic holds true, then you should be in line tol get a Subaru Impreza WRX: for $24,000 you're getting alot more car than anything out there right? For many people, the purchase of a car is more than just comparing numbers (0-60, Hp, torque, etc.), it involves an attraction at a gutteral level. Some people buy the cheapest car they can find acceptable, others buy the "best" car they can afford. To me "best" includes a good looking car, and the mercedes is a good looking car

ctic · June 2001

The only woman in the world who spends more time polishing her car than her nails.

pat · June 2001

There are a lot of women hanging around here who care a whole lot more about how their cars look than their nails.

;-)

Pat
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michhala · June 2001

>The only woman in the world who spends more time >polishing her car than her nails.

ctic.

I can do it all! -- my car and my nails are bright and shiny -- we glow

Miki

sleake · June 2001

I was the one who had the problem with the AM radio that ultimately required partial removal of the headliner and replacement of a part near the rear window. I first noticed the problem within two or three days after taking delivery. Prior to repair (which took three days..one to find the problem, one to wait for the part, and one to actually do the repair) the static was intermitant but intolerable. It was often trigger by going over a bump, but not always. It usually stopped when the car was not moving, all of which caused me to suspect an antenna connection problem. I have had no further problems since it was fixed. It was strictly an AM problem. My FM reception was always very good. Sherrill

2002mbenz · June 2001

I have ordered a 2002 C240 and still have time to change the options including the colour. My preliminary choice was flat black, as the saleslady suggested that there is not much difference between the flat black and the obsidian black. She said that you would really have to get up close to notice the difference between the two.

Miki, I remember reading that you have owned both flat balck on your first C320 and obsidian on your second. Was the saleslady correct in her assessment of the two colours? Is there a real noticable difference between the two, and what other differences are there, if any? I also remember reading that metallic paint is more prone to chipping. Thank you in advance.
Regards - Sandy

jamrock4 · June 2001

Heard about a product that might help to reduce the amount of paint chips. It is called Liquid Glass and has been around for a long time. If you apply multiple coats of this product over time it supposedly creates what appears to be a layer of glass that protects your car. Has anyone tried this product and does it work?

mleskovar · June 2001

Liquid Glass is just another polishing product. Some people prefer it. No special chip protection. Yes I have used it on other cars in the past.

nanky · June 2001

I took delivery of an Obsidiain Black C320 about two and a half weeks ago. While deciding on color, the flat black was not an option at all. Your sales person is right in suggesting that, at a glance, it appears there isn't much of a difference between the two, especially when the cars are in motion. When parked side by side, there is a definite difference that I feel was well worth the extra cost. Besides it's metallic composition, the Obsidian Black, in my opinion, has more depth and more of a shine or richness to it. Today, I have no regrets at all when I open the garage during the day and the sun's rays hit the car and brings out the brilliance in the Obsidian Black.

From my experience, sales people appear more willing to push flat blacks because they are easier to obtain. We found many flat blacks with the options I selected but had to wait a couple of months for the Obsidian to arrive in S. Cal. My understanding is that not too many Cs are being ordered in the Obsidian color. This again is just my opinion and it will be interesting to read Miki's first-hand experience and assessment of the two colors.

nanky

michhala · June 2001

Sandy -- To my eyes, there is a difference, but not an obvious one. As Nanky posted, the Obsidian has more depth to the color -- it is not as sheer and in my case, the scratches and spider lines do not show through as in the black. One reason the dealer might push plain black is that it is the easier color to match for touch-up and repair. This was told to me by the owner of my dealership. As far as Obsidian being more prone to chipping -- I don't know that yet, but am sure I will be given the opportunity any day now. My straight black chipped very easily.

Personally, I like the Obsidian better than the Black all the way around.

Miki

michhala · June 2001

>I took delivery of an Obsidian Black C320 about >two and a half >weeks ago.

Nanky -- I am wondering if our Obsidian 320's made the voyage on the high C's together. I took delivery on May 30. It was due to arrive at the Port of Long Beach a few days to a week prior to that date, but I was away from May 22 through May 29, so I don't know the exact arrival date.

Miki

nanky · June 2001

Miki - - I believe they did. Sometime ago you mentioned, as did my dealer, there were two Obsidians scheduled to arrive in S. Cal towards the end of May. We then speculated they belonged to us. I was also in and out of town and thus didn't keep track of the exact arrival date. What I do know is that my sales person left a message around May 19 stating the ship had docked and the vehicle was due to clear customs within a couple of days. Picked mine up on June 2. Sounds like they kept each other company on the ship. Maybe we will see each other in LA traffic one of these days

wolfx · June 2001

Does Mercedes offer free maintenance the first 36,000 miles, like Audi and BMW? I thought i heard somewhere that it did. I'm presently on the waiting list for the C32, and cant wait to take it against an M3 next year

drew_ · June 2001

Don't miss the weekly MB Tuesdays chat at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10pm Eastern! All MB fans/enthusists/owners/potential owners are welcome to participate. Hope to see you there!

Click on the link below to enter the chat at the times above. Note that the link to the chat is always near the top of this page, just under the discussion topic title:

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html

Drew
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rs64 · June 2001

They do offer the maintenance, but it is for 4 yrs, 50,000 miles.

ny74 · June 2001

Have you guys received this email from MB?

Sounds like fun. They have cities other than New York. You should reserve one ASAP....

I will let out my road rage at the Nassau Coliseum in July.

Here is the body of the email I have received:

-----------------------------------------------

As any true Mercedes-Benz enthusiast knows, there's only one thing better than feasting your eyes on a shiny, new Mercedes-Benz: driving one. That's why we'd like you to join us for the Mercedes-Benz PowerTrip event in

New York, July 6-8, at the Nassau Coliseum.

It's your chance to enjoy some one-on-one interaction with a wide range of Mercedes-Benz models* - all free of charge. Fuel your passion for Mercedes-Benz with hands-on experience on one of our three driving courses. And bring a friend to share excitement.

Our sales people are friendly and remarkably knowledgeable. And they won't be around, which means you can drive, study and enjoy our vehicles in a sales-free environment.

Be among the first to experience the tenacious new C-Class Sports Coupe. For a taste of the sublime, surround yourself in the luxury of an E-Class. If speed is what you crave, take an electrifying ride with a professional racecar driver on our AMG "Hot Lap" track. Or if a gutsy ride is more your style, get behind the wheel of an M-Class. Whatever you seek, there's a course and a Mercedes-Benz to satisfy your passion.

We've even invited BMW, Lexus and Audi so you can take them for a spin, too. Compare and contrast over a gourmet snack. In the end, we're confident your passion for Mercedes-Benz will only be stronger.

Space is limited. So click here or phone toll-free at 1-866-845-7045 to reserve a spot for you and a friend today!

http://www.mbpowertrip.com/

drew_ · June 2001

Topic: Those Little Annoyances - what really bugs you?

bubba3007 · June 2001

My wife and I just returned home from our first real road trip in the C240. We drove to Chicago for the PowerTrip 2001 and I don't know which was the most fun, the trip or the event.

The trip: Very smooth over the usual mix of road surfaces, good to awful. Quiet, comfortable, and serene. Cruised at about five over and got 28+ MPG. The car was flawless with a few pleasant surprises, like the fact that the cooling function in the lower arm rest compartment really will keep soft drinks, water, fudge, etc. cold, really cold! Performance was very good, can get to Big Ticket Speeds very quickly and very smoothly. (I don't like to linger near tractor - trailer rigs and accelerate when passing them. 90+ MPH is just a toe - tap away.)

The event: Mercedes-Benz puts on a first class event, caterers, exhibits, presentations, the cars, Oh my Gawd, the cars, the demonstrations, the cars, the test tracks, the cars...
The first test track was to compare the Cs with the competition, they had a 320, a 240, and a couple of C Coupes to compare with a BMW 325i, a Lexus IS 300, and an Audi A4 Quattro. Choose your car, get in line, drive. The only instruction from the starter; "Have fun!". I had considered each of these before ordering the 240, what a way to confirm that I made the (for me) right choice.

The second track was the rest of the lineup, ML, CLK, SLK, S, and CL. I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven. Dante had it all wrong, Paradise is living in a M-B PowerTrip.

The Third track was the Hot Laps on the speedway with the M-B Pro drivers in a selection of AMGs. I missed out on this one because I couldn't take time out from driving. I sort of regret
not going on a Hot Lap, but I just couldn't get enough of driving for myself.

Please excuse the too long post, but if you get a chance to go to one of the PowerTrip presentations you won't regret it.

Bubba

". . . My friends all drive Porsches, I must make AMENDS. . ." J. Joplin

michhala · June 2001

>What I do know is that my sales person left a message around May 19 >stating the ship had docked and the vehicle was due to clear customs >within a couple of days
>Sounds like they kept each other company on the >ship. Maybe we will >see each other in LA traffic >one of these days

I remember that two Obsidians were scheduled for here -- but that was when I thought you lived in Ghana

My dealer called me, too, around May 19 and said the ship came in earlier than expected -- this means the "kids" did make the voyage together.

Miki

benz747 · June 2001

I have booked 2002 C 240, and supposed to get delivery in July 2001, but dealer is saying MB has not come out for a 2002 Pricing, is anybody in this forum have booked 2002 Models and have some insight about pricing and delivery schedule?
I have also put down $500 to be on LIST, any information is highly appricaited

jamrock4 · June 2001

Thanks for your input on Liquid Glass. Was hoping that it would reduce paint chipping. But ales there is no such thing...

gsesmart · June 2001

I've owned my C320 for 4 months now, and generally I'm satisfied, apart from glitches associated with the seat/mirror memory function which were fixed by the dealer (and other little problems - i.e. when I close the roof, the sun shade is dragged partially closed).

However, I've had a nagging problem with the car's auto. transmission. In particular:

1. the car kicks into 2nd gear (doesn't shift smoothly);

2. car doesn't come out of gear when braking or when foot removed from gas (esp. going downhill when, in fact, the car upshifts even though the gas is not pressed - not disengaging as it should);

3. when the car does come out of gear while coasting, and the accelerator is again depressed, there is a lag between the time the accelerator is depressed and the gears engage (causes the gears to kick in, not engage smoothly);

4. car seems to lack power at speeds 40mph+, feels sluggish;

5. difficult to stop car smoothly -- transmission will downshift rapidly as you stop (rather than disengage), particularly as the car's speed is reduced from 10 mpg to 0 mph; and

6. car pulls when in D and stopped.

These problems are particularly acute when the transmission/engine is cold, but occur even after warm-up. I've had the electronic controller for the tranmission replaced, which seemed to have resolved the problem temporarily - but the car had gone back to its old ways (I'm wishing I could have my old A4 back at this point - a great car).

Q:
Has anyone had a similar problem? What was the cause/remedy?

(As an aside - people tell me it must be great to have a MB. I respond, yeah, it's not a bad car had I paid $24K for it, but given what I did pay, I'm not very happy with the car overall - I'd caution people wrt to this car and ask them to seriously consider the new A4 or 3 series over this car)

wolfx · June 2001

have noticed similar transmission problems, but it appears to be one of those things where not all the 320s have them, and you may be the unlucky few

I'm hoping by getting the C32 with entirely different transmission, I wont be subject to the prospect of these difficulties.

ecc1 · June 2001

I just looked at a parts content info page for a 2001 C-class C-320 and it said it was assembled in Brazil. Is this for real?

gsesmart · June 2001

I read an article in USA Today, in which the journalist was describing a similar problem with the transmission of the C320 which he was testing. He said that problem didn't manifest itself in another C320 he tested equiped with the sports package.

This is comforting news, somewhat, since it appears that the defect relates to my transmission, not to a defect in the transmission's design.

_____
reviews of other 320 models... by wolfx Jun 20, 2001 (12:58 pm)
have noticed similar transmission problems, but it appears to be one of those things where not all the 320s have them, and you may be the unlucky few

I'm hoping by getting the C32 with entirely different transmission, I wont be subject to the prospect of these difficulties.

jrct9454 · June 2001

As the certified Old Fart [can I say that here?] on this board, my first reaction to the list of transmission symptoms is that is sounds like a defective valve body in the trans. The hanging shifts used to be [before electronic computerized controls] a classic symptom of a main valve body that was not opening properly. But this is probably ancient history / campfire tales...I'm sure their diagnostics will reliably trace the problem...sooner or later...it's not encouraging that they already took a whack at the electronics, and it failed again. Which does happen, by the way...on the BMW board, there are lots of reports of radiator fan failures, sometimes cases of one bad part being replaced with another. Looks like BMW finally figured out the problem, and is conducting a recall, but not before some owners actually had the failure more than once.

ctic · June 2001

Since we on the topic of transmissions, what do you think about this? I have a 99 C280. Ever since I got it, when I need rapid acceleration, like merging or overtaking, I will stamp on the gas. I see the rpms go up, but the car doesn't speed up. Once the rpms get to about 4-5K then the car will accelerate. I keep think the clutch is slipping, but it happened even when the car was new and I've taken it in twice to no avail.

djasonw · June 2001

I had a 2000 C280 and it had the SAME problem you had. Quite annoying and frightening at the same time! I believe it truly is a design flaw of that particular transmission. I traded mine in February for a C320 Sport. I've been one of the lucky ones. I have 6,500 trouble free miles. I've NOT been back to the dealer ONCE. BTW... it's an early build one too.

drew_ · June 2001

Uh, it doesn't have a clutch ;-) I think it's just that the engine doesn't have as much power at low revs. The torque peak is about 4000 rpms, so that's probably why the car starts speeding up more significantly when you hit those revs.

Drew
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ctic · June 2001

If it doesn't have a clutch, what is the thing called which transfers rotation from the engine to the transmission?

And how can it be explained that the revs go up, but the car doesn't accelerate?

zmeenow · June 2001

i have noticed now.since using the AC a lot.. that there is a definate lag from 2-3..and 3-4th gear.... im not sure if its a transmission "problem" or if its just a characteristic of the smaller 6. as of now... thats my only beef about an otherwise flawless car(16000 + miles)early build

drew_ · June 2001

I realise what you're trying to describe. As if the clutch is slipping on a manual tranny car and there aren't enough revs so the vehicle feels like it's lagging.

My understanding is that there is a shaft connected from the flywheel of the engine to the torque converter (instead of a clutch). Someone feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect.

Drew
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404c · June 2001

Aside from the torque converter, automatic transmissions actually DO have multiple little clutch plates, bathed in ATF, that allow the car to choose the appropriate gear. But these are internal to the gearbox, not in the bell housing as is the clutch of a manual transmission car.

Just to confuse matters further, torque converters can also be used with a manual transmission, such as in the Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 vehicle. There is, in this case, BOTH a conventional clutch AND a torque converter. It is an option on certain heavy-duty Unimogs. The torque converter allows them to do very heavy pulling jobs (such as shunting railcars) without burning out the clutch of the manual gearbox. Enough of the trivia...

So the people with the delayed acceleration problem on the C-Classes mentioned above could be due to a malfunctioning clutch plate (though if that were the case, it'd likely only be in one or two gears). It also could be a valve body problem, assuming these new-fangled cars actually still have such things, as the old f*rt wrote ;-)

My advice is to have the service manager review the matter, and if he ignores the problem, ask him to drive with you in another similar car to see if it does the same thing. Failing that, get the importer's regional service rep to check it out. Your symptom does not sound normal to me. You must insist on a repair.

Mike

drew_ · June 2001

Yes, I was aware of the internal clutches, but as you mentioned it's not in the bell housing like a standard tranny vehicle. The valve body certainly sounds like a possible cause. I remember of someone ('98 ML320 owner) having it replaced because of clunking with the transmission.

I bet that while the torque converter allows the really heavy loads, it still does steal away some power :-)

Anyone know how they use the clutch for the sequential shift trannies in Formula One and WRC cars? I know that there is a seperate clutch pedal and they use if for starting of initially only.

Drew
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