Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

jrct9454 · June 2001

Ctic: Your symptoms sound much more to me like a problem with the software that links the throttle and the transmission in the drivetrain computer. The difficulty here is if the failure is intermittent, or only in circumstances that will not trigger an OBD trap to be set, you / they are reduced to the old standby: replacing parts [sometimes a lot of them] until you finally nail it. It sounds like a less extreme version of the symptoms [see many posts back] of cars actually stalling in traffic due to electronic throttle problems. That's just a guess...you have already been treated to my opinion of the German auto industry's arrogance about its electronic doo-dads, so no further comment on that.

Drew: F1 [and most similar sequential shift auto transmissions, which are showing up everywhere - Ferrari uses them in production cars, and one is available for the new C-Class coupe, though not for North America] cars use a regular clutch and gearbox combination, with the clutch electronically actuated. Pressurized fluids are involved in some applications, while others are purely electronic [depends on how you want to engage and disengage the clutch - different preferences and philosophies at work]. And there is often NOT a clutch pedal, per se; instead, they will use a hand clutch on the steering wheel so each foot has only one pedal to work with at all times [which can be necessary when you are starting to spin and need to keep it cooking, but need also to briefly go to neutral, AND need to brake, all at the same time...this is why these guys earn the big bucks].

Eventually [20 years hence?], I think there will be but two transmission choices everywhere: CVT, and electronic sequential auto-manuals. Once the 42 volt electrical systems come online in the next decade, this trend could accelerate.

dvancao · June 2001

First off, I can manually raise/lower and flip up/down the rear head rest.
I read the owners manual several times and still can NOT get the flip down button of the head rest to work. I have tried it with the head rest in the up and down positions, nether one works. What am I missing or doing wrong? Yes, the key is in position 1 or 2.

One interesting thing. The car is running and the radio is on. Turn off the car, key position 0, radio is still ON. Take out key, radio is OFF. Push power button on radio, radio is ON. Get out of car, close door, lock/secure car, radio is still ON!
Neat feature, but can drain the battery!

Dat.

ctic · June 2001

Thanks to all for the information and advice.

nanky · June 2001

It shouldn't take that much effort to press the switch to get the head rest down. If I remember correctly, a working switch flips them down instantaneously while getting them in the up position is done manually. It sounds as if your switch is faulty and requires a visit to the dealer.

I read somewhere in the owner's manual that interior lights, and I believe other electrical functions, will turn themselves off after 20 minutes. If this feature works as designed, our batteries should be protected. Keep us posted on what the problem turns out to be.

captain_howdy · June 2001

Maybe this is old news for you... Anyway if it isn't:

Check the URL below and see who makes what for the C-class. Alot of companies involved!

http://www.autonewseurope.com/cutaways/mercedesc-class.htm

nanky · June 2001

Dat - Since the only time I used the head restraint release switch was when driving, I went out to test it with the key in positions 1 and 2 as referenced in the manual. Guess what? Mine didn't work either. It only worked with the engine running. Unless both of us are doing something wrong, the information in the manual is misleading.

jrct9454 · June 2001

Well, at least we now know who to blame for the rocking seats - good old Lear, USA all the way.

On the rear headrest question - I only used the feature rarely on our W202 C, and now that I think about it, only when the car was on the road. Never had the occasion to try it on our W210 E...does sound as if the owner's manual deceives, which would hardly be the first time, incidentally. My '94 C's book had a couple of real whoppers included at no charge; fortunately, the one about correct wheel torque was so far off that you knew it had to be wrong...

johnny2000 · June 2001

Thank you all for the informative posts on the transmission lag that some have experienced.

As an owner of a 1999 C230 K Sport, I have witnessed the sudden jump in acceleration from 1st to 2nd gear and I have always thought of it to be normal due to the engine cold temperature. But again I also experience the same slugginesh at various speeds and when the car is warmer.

I took notes from your posts and contacted my service manager who scheduled me for service next monday. He stated that he is familiar with the problem and that they needed to retool the transmission "clutches and fluid sensors". He added that the work should take at least two business days and it is under warranty. A loaner car has been reserved for me too.

If anyone is interested in getting a copy of my letter to the service manager that I have sent just email me. I admit I have literally paraphrased and even rewrote your technical comments to make my case as my car is still under warranty for another 20 thousand miles.

Cheers to all

Johnny

dvancao · June 2001

As nanky stated, the rear head rest does go down with a press of the button, but the engine has to be running. The manual does NOT say that the engine has to be running, only that the key has to be in position 1 or 2.

As for the radio, nanky is almost right again. The radio will turn off, but only after 30 minutes. The manual does say this on page 171.

Thanks for the help.

Dat.

gottabee · June 2001

you mentioned that there were the new c-coupes at the powertrip ... did you drive any? if so, any comments? i am actually trying to decide between the audi a4, lexus is300, bmw 325, and vw passat

. any comments from anyone who's driven the new coupe would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

hoppyeng · June 2001

Here are some pics on oil/filter change prior to my scheduled FSS at about 10,000 miles. Changed at 4300 miles by my mechanic. Checked with my dealer to make sure I used the same oil (Castrol Syntec 5-50W)when I bring it in for the FSS. Costs: 9 quarts of syntec $43, filter/seals/copper ring $13, labor $16.50 (cheap)

I could have Bought Mobil 1 10-30W from Pric Club much cheaper but it is not consistent from the dealer. I want to use the same oil.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=4292518339

hoppyeng · June 2001

Here are some pics on oil/filter change prior to my scheduled FSS at about 10,000 miles. Changed at 4300 miles by my mechanic. Checked with my dealer to make sure I used the same oil (Castrol Syntec 5-50W)when I bring it in for the FSS. Costs: 9 quarts of syntec $43, filter/seals/copper ring $13, labor $16.50 (cheap)

I could have Bought Mobil 1 10-30W from Pric Club much cheaper but it is not consistent from the dealer. I want to use the same oil.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=4292518339

ghays · June 2001

Rear Headrests: I believe that the rear headrest retraction system is pnumatic, therefore requires engine vacuum to operate

Oil Change: hoppyeng, great pics, but you are really going to way too much trouble. The factory suggests that the engine oil be removed by vacuum through the dipstick tube. It works great, no getting under the car, no R&R panels and you actually get more oil out! I used a 'Topsider' on my C240. This device was purchased for about $40 at the local guy store. Yes, these W203's do have dipstick tubes, just no dipstick. It is near the firewall just right of the center of the car.

Gary

bubba3007 · June 2001

Re: Driving the C Coupe. . . Oh yeah!!! The coupe is very much like the sedan from behind the wheel, i.e. some differences in the instrument cluster, textured aluminium instead of wood trim. They only had two cars, both with automatic transmissions, so I didn't get to try a manual, darn! However the driving experience was quite different. The coupe seems to have a tighter suspension and the gearing may be a little lower (I haven't seen the specs and this may be my imagination). The car was a little quicker than my 240, as you would expect with more power. The ride was tight, but not harsh, even over the simulated "broken pavement" section of the course, after all this is still a Mercedes. I think the car is very attractive, a real looker. The seating room seemed about the same as the sedan but I really need a four door. I'd like to own one as a second car as it is a blast to drive. In comparison with the others, IMHO, the BMW comes closest but has a harsher ride and I thought, had inferior brakes, a big surprise because I have always admired BMW's brakes as being among the very best. Again, IMHO, I thought the Audi and Lexus were also runs, very good cars, but not quite in the same league, your mileage may vary.

The car I couldn't drive but that visually impressed me the most was the C320 Estate Wagon. Now there is transportation that has it all, roomy inside, compact outside, excellent performance (based on the sedan), and a visual delight. All curves, no boxy shape for this one.

I hope this helps, if you have any other questions please ask.

Bubba

"... my friends all drive Porches, I must make AMENDS..." J. Joplin

drew_ · June 2001

FYI, the C-class coupe has suspension tuning which is approximately 10% firmer than the sedan, which is why you felt that it was "tighter" than the sedan. MB retuned the suspension because they felt that it would better suit the sportier nature of the coupe, as well as its younger target customer. As you noticed, they managed to do this without compromising the existing ride and handling that you've come to expect in the C-class sedan. I too found that the interior room was actually surprisingly similar to the sedan. I read about it in the European auto magazines but I didn't really believe it until I had a chance to sit in the rear.

I find the 3-series' brakes a bit touchy compared to the C-class. Perhaps it's because I'm used to the longer travel pedals of MBzs. I know that some BMW owners that I know feel the exact opposite way, saying that the MBzs that they test drove (the SL500 in particular) felt slow...of course it's not slow if you actually measure the 0-60 times.

The C320 wagon is definitely stunning and I really look forward to being able to test drive one when it arrives very soon. What interests me is the C320 4-matic wagon in particular. Interestingly, my salesguy told me that in their recent product training sessions, they were all told that there is a good chance (for Canada at least) that the 4-matic system may be introduced as a late availability option for the 2002 model year, specificially around Spring of 2002. This would be similar to what happened to the E320 4-matic when it was first introduced for the 1998 model year, and it would also be in tune with launch date of the C and S-class 4-matics in Europe.

Drew
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cmcgahee · June 2001

Are there any new colors for C320's for 2002? Haven't seen a catalog for 2002 so am wondering if there are any changes that are important.

maroon95 · June 2001

what is the average age group for the new C-class drivers?

do you ppl in the age group of 22 to 30 purchase this car or they choose the BMW 3-series over it? my buddy told me that the C-class is for middle age ppl

hm...i am perplex

nyca · June 2001

Try this:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_oil_change2.htm

zmeenow · June 2001

ahhh the image... what will people think of me? im 32 and i wanna look "right".. ill buy a.. beemer! cruisin down the road..stop at a light.. and whats next to me? a 50 yr old silver haired fox! IN A... NEW BEEMER??? OH NO MY IMAGE!! no ill get a..... MB! cruisin down the road... stop at a light.... whos next to me???? A WOMAN??? AND SHES MAYBE..... 56(57?) OHH NOOO!!!!
hey the average age group buys the car THEY enjoy driving ... no matter what the age!
IMHO

mleskovar · June 2001

If this is leading to questions about religous beliefs, ethnic background, salary, and sexual preference I'm not answering. However, if I ever want to buy a car to fit in a group I'll pick Mensa. Do you know what kind of cars they buy?

michhala · June 2001

>However, if I ever want to buy a car to fit in a >group I'll pick Mensa. Do you know what kind of >cars they buy?

Well...Mercedes has the "smart key", but I bet that is not the answer

404c · June 2001

I think most Mensa members drive 1974 AMC Gremlins.

mleskovar · June 2001

Mensa and Gremlins oh no! I want a car that better defines the true me. How disappointing, I'll have to pick a new group until I come up with a car that I like.

mleskovar · June 2001

I forgot, I did buy the car that I like. Maybe you're right, now I just need to know what group I'm in. See, never judge someone too quickly.

zmeenow · June 2001

smart key!! mensa!!! gremlins!!i loove it!

bubba3007 · June 2001

I thought that coupe felt tighter - not anything harsh, but just a bit more "on tiptoes".

Regarding the brake test; the portion of the course for the brake test was to accelerate to about 45 mph and hit the brakes, panic stop, set off the anti-locks, smoke the tires type of stop. The Cs all seemed to stop in a shorter distance than the BMW, there was no measure of the stopping distance, just a seat of your pants kind of thing, but I came away with more confidence in the M-B.

Hey guys, I'm an old codger, 66 - retired four years ago, but I just don't like a Buick ... Can I get a special dispensation or something so I can continue driving my new toy ... Please???

Bubba

"... my friends all drive Porches, I must make AMENDS..." J. Joplin

drew_ · June 2001

The sport setup, being about 10% firmer than the sedans, provides marginally better control and agility as well.

Regarding the braking, perhaps it has to do with Mercedes' Brake Assist. A while back Motor Trend TV (I think) reported that the E55 outbraked the M5 by a notable amount in the 70-0mph test because of Brake Assist being able to apply full brake boost quicker and more consistently than a normal driver. This may be why you felt that you had more confidence + the entirely possible shorter stopping distances than the other cars.

From my experiences in repeat braking maneuvers, I can say that it really does work very well in panic stops. I was stopping my M-class SUV in a shorter distance than many of the BMW cars in the class. I was actually quite amazed by this! The instructor had never heard of Brake Assist and was impressed with the capabilities of the brakes as well. I have no doubt that the C-class would perform extremely well in this same maneuver.

If you're interested in what I'm talking about above, you can see a video clip by clicking here.

Enjoy the drive,

Drew
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michhala · June 2001

Sometime ago, methinks there was a single post asking if anyone had distortion on their windshield. From the Obsidian driver seat, when looking to the front/right of the window and from the passenger seat, looking to front/left, there is very definitely distortion. Ordinarily, I would think it was because of the curve to the glass, but I did not notice this on the Black C320.

This does not make me "crazy" and is not distracting. I will mention it to service at a future date, but I am not in a hurry to have a windshield replaced. I would be interested to learn if this is normal or to be expected.

Miki

zmeenow · June 2001

was sitting in a friends beemer last week... and looking sideways across the winshield... noticed a definate rippling distortion that was not eveident while lookng straight into glass.... i didnt say anything... hes a fanatic@

mleskovar · June 2001

I see it too under certain conditions...correct angle and lighting. Very minor, doesn't bother me.

michhala · June 2001

Thank you, Mark -- Although I wrote in my post that the distortion would not make me "crazy", I do feel much better knowing it is probably common since you have the same experience. It is as you say -- most noticed with correct lighting and angle.

Gary -- You made the right decision to not tell your friend

Miki

ssmith701 · June 2001

As the owner of both an (2000) E-320 wagon and a 2001 C-320 (Sport Edition), I've experienced quite a number of small, irritating problems with the C. Most have been fit/finish issues, and two or three pretty significant rattles, one of which the dealer continues to work on, all centered in the right front passenger dash/door area. Another major problem was that the radio began to "arc" (their term, not mine) which caused a complete replacement of the entire system, including bezel/faceplate, amplifier (2X) and all wiring!
I read today in CAR where MB is experiencing MAJOR quality problems. Having had two VOLVOs both with MAJOR QUALITY issues which drove(pardon the pun) me to M-B, I was hoping for something more.

Don't get me wrong, great riding and driving car, but these issues are causing concern. Anyone else experiencing these types of problems?

jrct9454 · June 2001

Steve, this has been a continuing theme in this forum; while not suggesting you go back and read 3500 posts, it would be a good idea to go back a bit and see for yourself. As an owner of a baker's dozen MBs, I too am less than thrilled at the experiences of the collective group represented here.

I see a lot of patience and forbearance among this group, but then I am also seeing a lot of first-time owners, who may not have the same expectations of the marque as do folk like me. It is no secret in Europe that MB has the enthusiast publications nipping at their heels over this issue. They simply have to get a better handle on the performance of their subcontractors, especially the electronic suppliers. It's also obvious that they are not doing the extensive preproduction testing that used to be taken for granted, in the name of being competitive and getting products to market sooner.

None of this is to say that the world has come to an end - these are still very desirable cars with a heritage that no one else can touch. But at the end of the day, the new products have to uphold the traditions of the heritage, or it ultimately is valueless. I think current management has a lot of work to do - too much distraction from Chrysler and Mitsu and trying to be a global heavyweight and too little sticking to the knitting.

zmeenow · June 2001

i giot one of the 1st production models to make it here in nov... i have had 2-3 very small issues re fit finish,but they were attended to quickly. My only complaint would be that the engine(i have c240) is,at time sluggish.. moreso woth the ac on. /i was tols before i bought it,that the car will not burn up the roads... and i was buying a MB for TOTAL quality,, not 0-60 mph times.
all in al, the car has met.. and in more cases exceeded my expectations.im also aware that others have had,at the very least annoying problems... occasionally more... i hope everyone gets them selved.. and can enjoy their cars!
miki... i do have compassion!!

michhala · June 2001

zmeenow wrote:
>miki... I do have compassion!!

Gary -- Indeed you do

You exercised amazing self-control by not telling your fanatic friend that his BMW windshield had distortion. 'Twas very admirable.

Miki

w2p2 · June 2001

Have a C-320. The auto window on the back passanger side works off and on. Also , using the ECS( I think thats what its called) button to keep the car cool as I run into the store doesn't work that great. In fact the air coming out of the vent stinks. If I don't turn it off once I restart the car the air doesn't get cold. It may do better in the winter for heat, but its useless for the summertime. Anyone have success with this feature?

michhala · June 2001

Well everyone, it had to happen -- first chips appeared yesterday --four tiny pinhead ones on the top front of the hood near the headlamp. Working hard to practice what I preach and not let them bother me. I am somewhat successful in this endeavor; not nearly as upset as I was with the Black 320 because I am mentally and emotionally prepared

My two help aids:

1. When looking at the car, I avoid looking at the chips, and concentrate on enjoying the total shiny and beautiful appearance of the total car (this is the hard part).

2. I will call the dealer-recommended mobile paint company that comes to the house to fix the chips (this is the easy part). Since the cost is the same for all chips, methinks I will wait for more to appear -- and they will, just as sure as the sun rises and shines. I also think the dealer will do it for me at this point, too.

Miki

drew_ · June 2001

Bill, the "Eco" (Economy) button is to turn the A/C off when you just want to run the fan. The REST feature, which is also located on the same button, is to keep the car warm and not cool for up to 30 minutes after it has been shut off. Basically it keeps the fan and coolant pump (I think) running at low speed so that heat still gets pumped into the cabin. Very useful in the winter months. You have to turn it off if you get into the car before the 30 minute shut-off timer because you're running without the A/C on with the Eco mode button depressed. That's why the air coming out of the vents doesn't feel cool. Please read the owner's manual again for more specifics on the automatic climate control system. It may be boring (to some), but it helps! :-)

Miki, my condolences...as you know the first chip or ding is the toughest, but at least you're taking it in stride! ;-) I haven't had a single chip on my M-class' hood, knock on wood, thanks partly to the hood deflector. However, I've had two pin-sized ones on the front bumper.

Drew
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michhala · June 2001

Drew -- Thank you for your compassion. Under the circumstances we are both holding up well

I had so many frustrations with the Black that there was no room for joy. With the Obsidian, I made up my mind to concentrate on the joy.

I am happy for your good luck and lack of chips (knock on wood), but I don't know about hood deflectors. Are they just for the M-class?

Miki

w2p2 · June 2001

no wonder it didn't keep the car cool! I guess I need to re-read my manual.
Now for some good news, I am getting 26.4 MPG on the average!!!!

gsesmart · June 2001

I too, am a proud owner of a C320 (not sport). I sympathize with your problems since I too, have had to pleasure of returning to my dealership several times since the purchase of my car, less than 4 months ago.

Indeed, am waiting patiently for my 4th return to the garage to have the transmission fixed so I can exercise my rights under California's lemon law and have them purchase my car back from me.

You're not alone my friend. The C320 is a piece of junk; although let's keep that to ourselves because we wouldn't this kind of talk to reduce the resale value of our paperweights (something which I'm sure is on your mind as much as mine).

maroon95 · June 2001

Does anyone know when the MB C-class 2002 coming out?

I am interested in the C-320, however, i hear it has some bugs to be work out...so maybe the next year model will be a bit cleaner?

michhala · June 2001

Is your dealer in Southern California -- specifically, Santa Monica?

Miki

emory28 · June 2001

I am considering replacing my wife's car with the new C320. I have a BMW 323ci that I love, but have fallen in love with the styling of the new C. What concerns me about the C320 is all of the postings that I have seen on this site indicating that there are major quality problems with the new C. I know that a certain amount of problems are inevitable in a new model, but its hard to tell if the problems are as widespread as they seem or if the problems are more isolated and only those with problems are posting. Please help. I need advice quick. I am told that the wait on ordering the car is several months so I want to make a decision in the next few weeks. Am I crazy to be considering this car????

Dallas, Texas

husky11 · June 2001

Yes

drew_ · June 2001

Unfortunately because of the way that the MB hood and grill is designed, a hood deflector would be unlikely for the cars. At this point, only the 3M Scotchal invisible bra is available. In fact, I couldn't figure out how they could design one for the M-class until I saw it in person.

You may want to consider the invisible bra for your C. While it won't prevent all chips and it won't deflect small pieces of debris like a hood deflector can (by changing the air flow slightly), it could help. The cost may be worth the peace of mind to you. I think the most important thing is to find someone who has experience, and hence can do a good job applying the material. Probably shops that deal with expensive cars will be preferable.

Xpel offers a few different ones with varying areas of coverage for your car (Avantgarde = Sport pkg, BTW). They also offer relatively inexpensive headlamp protection film kits as well. A good idea, especially if your car has the expensive HID Xenon headlamps:

http://www.xpel.com/paint/product.asp?make=Mercedes&image1.x=8&image1.y=12

You can also find the nearest installation centre here:

http://www.xpel.com/forms/installform.html

I hope this helps!

drew_ · June 2001

You're welcome. Hopefully you'll be able to enjoy the car even more now :-)

Drew
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gsesmart · June 2001

As a poster and owner of the C-320 I can say the the styling of the car is the best of its class. However, reconsider whether you'll be satisfied with a car when you discover the numerous little (and some big) problems. My problems include transmission, memory function errors, rattling seats, the sunvisor, etc.

My advice to you is to look seriously at the 330xi (yes, the body styling is dated, but BMWs are generally well made cars) or wait for the 2002.

If you still like the C320 so much, I have one to sell you, it only has 4,000 miles on it.

bubba3007 · June 2001

You are replacing your wife's car. What does she want? That is the important question you should be asking. When that is answered, and the C Class is still in the picture then go drive them. If you (she) doesn't need four doors then look at the C Coupe, it'll be available in just a couple of weeks now. If she needs a four door then try both the 240 and the 320. I, personally, didn't think the extra power and C-1 package on the 320 was worth the money, your mileage, as always, will vary. These cars are sophisticated and technically advanced, they are reliable but they are machines and imperfect. I only wish my computers were as reliable as todays cars. That said, My decision was between the BMW 325 and the C, one drive in the C and I never looked back. Perhaps I would be less enthusiastic if I had had the problems that some others have had but so far (8,500 miles) zero defects, and a 50K - four year warranty.

Bubba

"... my friends all drive Porches, I must make AMENDS..." J. Joplin

emory28 · June 2001

If we get the C320 it will be a 2002 model. The salesman at our local dealer was saying they are not getting any more 2001's that are not already spoken for. My wife has seen the C320 up close and likes the car as much as I do so it is on the short list. Of course BMW is also on the list. Do you think that MB will correct a lot of the defects found in the 2001 model with the 2002's.

Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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