Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

smallreg1 · March 2002

Thanks I needed that laugh!!! My c320 doesn't have the sports package on it, and I'm not sure what kind of tires are on them. They are the tires that came with the car. Also, we haven't gotten much snow here this winter although it's sprinkling some today and expecting more on thursday. I guess the problem is that when consiering vehicles, I couldn't decide on what to buy and didn't purchase the ML due to issues I keept hearing about on their posts. Besides, I trade this car in my husband will have a fit!! He's tired of me and my car disputes...

Thanks for your quick response, any support in helping feel I made the right decision is helpful.

michhala · March 2002

>Thanks for your quick response, any support in >helping feel I made the right decision is helpful

I love my 2001 C320. It will be one-year-old May 31. When I drive it, I am Queen of the Road -- I look it and I feel it.....such fun to drive ......great to handle......fast and powerful on the freeways.....

Miki

nyca · March 2002

Consider looking at the C320 4MATIC coming in the fall (2003 model year). With that, ESP, plus snow tires, it should be excellent in the snow.

rowlandj · March 2002

Keep the c320. I had mine this winter and I assure you it is great in the snow (NY Hudson Valley) the traction and stability control are amazing in action. I took it out and tried to make it "loose" in the snow and it always came back with confidence.

If things get heavy then consider a set of dedicated snows for the car. They are a lot less than the hit on a trade and you can get a complete package for the car, rims and all, from tirerack.

Regards,

JR

smallreg1 · March 2002

You guys are great! Now I can go out and enjoy my car with confidence. I really do appreciate all of the positive feedback given, because sometimes there is so much negative energy on these forums about vehicles that I suppose I would be confused no matter what I bought. So, I'm going to go tackle the wet roads today and the snow tomorrow! Thanx again....

paul_p · March 2002

Yes, these C-Class forums are awesome! I have learned so much about my car over the last year - info I could not have received anywhere else. Also saved over $800. on the extended warranty due to info posted. I very much appreciate the supportive nature of the posts and thank everyone for sharing in that manner! Looking forward to more great info sharing ...

- Paul

mike_914 · March 2002

I have an ML 320 and live in NY I'm going back to a car. I was leaning towards an Audi A4 Quattro to get AWD. But I would prefer to stay with MBZ. I found it interesting that jrowland says the C320 is good as is in snow. A C320 either with 4-matic or knowing that as is works, would be my first choice. Any comments/suggestions? You've really had a C320 do well in snow?

404c · March 2002

The Quattro solution to full time 4WD is technically far more rigourous than Mercedes' 4Matic as presently seen on the E and ML. And I don't even like Audis...

The former has a 50-50 default torque split with Torsen differentials centre and rear. This default setup makes for a naturally balanced car, easy to drive fast in slippery conditions.

The latter has 0-100% default torque split with open differentials all around. That means that the rear wheels must start slipping before the fronts get any tractive force. This naturally makes the car more difficult than a Quattro to drive quickly on snow, as it is always unbalanced, adapting (after the fact) to variable grip levels. The pseudo-limited slip effect is simulated by the brakes. Drive a 4Matic fast on snowy roads and watch your brake pads last 6 months ;-)

I hope that Mercedes' new C Class 4Matic system is a proper full-time 4WD system.

blakec320 · March 2002

I wish I could post a more technical or definitive comment, but to those who are skeptical... the upcoming 4MATIC system is indeed a redesigned one fit to be placed on the S, E, and C class automobiles and promises to be the "best yet" for Mercedes.

404c · March 2002

I hope that you're right about the 4Matic being updated. We shall soon see, as it's supposed to be available in Canada for the 2003 model year on the C...

BTW, our family has ordered a C230K for delivery in May/June - a basic car - magma red, panorama roof and auto wipers, nothing else. That makes it pretty good value up here in Canada, at only $22,750 US before taxes and other fees.

nyccarguy · March 2002

also needs to drop the price of 4MATIC to make it competitive. I think they charge somewhere in the neighborhood of $3000-$3500 on the current E Class. If that holds true, there will be fully loaded C320s out there wityh an MSRP dangerousl close to the $50,000 mark.

kenyee · March 2002

404c:
Actually, the ML has torque split to 48/52. I think the E is 30/70 roughly (can't remember the exact numbers...Drew would have if he weren't banned from here)-:
Because of this, the ML is more neutral in the snow than the E. The E split is similiar to the X5 split where both were intended to have a RWD "feel".
I think Quattro is also the best 4WD system, but it can still get stuck if only one wheel is spinning (there are accounts of this on Audiworld's A4 forum where they were shocked too :-)

404c · March 2002

Is the split really 30-70?

There's a guy in Sweden with an E-Class 4Matic who has a good website with info on 4Matic (including details on how the system operates) and he indicates that the default in the E (at least the year he has) is 0-100%. I can't remember the URL but if you search on 4Matic you may find it. He's posted before on MBWorld.org in the tech forum.

I had assumed he was correct, because Mercedes seems to be too embarrassed to give technical details on 4Matic themselves ;-)

In any event, even if the torque split is 30-70 in the E, the cop-out on limited slip (i.e. using brakes to simulate LSD) is cheesy, at best. It reeminds me of something Hyundai might do ;-)

I'm hoping the next generation 4Matic hits the mark technically.

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Just a reminder that the Town Hall chat is on for Wednesday evening (5-7pm Pacific/8-10 pm Eastern). Hope you can join in this week to meet and greet with your fellow Town Hall users and have a little fun with The Return of Car Trivia!

Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

kenyee · March 2002

In case you haven't noticed, this is the way most companies are heading. Check out the latest Range Rover and X5. The reason is that ESP is easy to implement w/o LSDs (though Audi has LSDs and ESP). BTW, did you know the Audi TT's Quattro is an inferior version of Quattro? It's mostly FWD (check Audiworld).

You'll have to ask Drew to confirm on the split. It's definitely not 0/100 (pure rear drive).

billp8 · March 2002

I don't know when or why Drew was banned from this forum, but in the spirit of amnesty (or forgiveness) can he PLEASE be allowed back in? Speaking from personal experience, I was always amazed by his knowledge, and he was at all times very respectful in his replies to my questions. Thank you.

rainers · March 2002

I agree he was at all times very respectful in his replies to my questions.Drew can be found over at MBWORLD.ORG under C-Class and ML-Class forums. Check out the link http://www.mbworld.org/forum/home.html

husky11 · March 2002

Thanks for the excellent link to MBWORLD.ORG in your post #5268. Very helpful stuff.

djasonw · March 2002

I happened to have had the unfortunate experience of using my C320 this past winter. With the stock Conti tires it is white knuckle all the way. I invested in some blizzaks. The ones I got were a compromise over the ones which are truly snows. The ones I got (can't remember the designation) have a huge center channel thru the middle. Still, this tire was a huge improvement over the Contis. The tires rode nicely too. As far as the ability to go up hills was concerned, that was still an issue. Even with the snows, the car would NOT climb a 4% or so grade. Now the Audi A4 I used to have with blizzaks,, that car was AMAZING. All I can say is that I am glad I have my WRX now for the winter. My little benz is gonna have next winter off.

peter84 · March 2002

I thought some of you might like to know how things finally turned out once we got a new E Class after all the problems we had with the 2001 C 320 which I wrote about last month. We like the new car a lot. Smooth, quiet, powerful, very comfortable to ride in and a good feel for the road for a car it's size. However, there was a problem with the sound system from the day we got it. Lots of static on the FM radio and while the CD and tape players sounded like they should on a Bose system the radio sound was very thin. Nor was the automatic volume control working. We took it back after three days and the dealer "fooled" around a bit, and the night we picked it up the same thing happened. I spoke to the service manager the next day and they sent a driver over to our house with a Mercedes loaner, and after 8 days (yesterday) they finally got it fixed. The problem was with the rear window antenna. They also found that two other E Class models in their stock had a similar problem and they replaced the rear window on those as well.

I feel that Mercedes and the dealership finally treated us very fairly and well re our previous C Class and in getting us into a new E Class, and I know from all the comments on this chat room that most people seem to be pretty happy with their C Class autos. But, I have to say that given our experience with both the C 320 and the sound system problem in our new E Class that I am pretty disappointed with and surprised about the poor quality control of Mercedes these days. I think (hope) we will now have a fine car, but there were too many problems involved with both, and I can't believe these were isolated incidents.

ballmd · March 2002

Can you purchase the the telephone for the c-class from verizon or do they have to put a special chip in the phone. Is the telephone the motorola V60c or the motorola timeport P8767. If these are the phones that are used for our car, they have them on sale at verizon. I understand that you have to buy the installation kit and the other accessory for the voice activation feature. Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance.

mbnut1 · March 2002

Problems aside do you consider the E as good as value as the C and how do the driving experiences compare form the standpoint of quietness, solidity, handling, and ride. The reason I ask is a salesman at the dealer made the comment that unless you needed the interior space he would get the C.

paul_p · March 2002

I had the same comment made to me by my MB salesman when I leased/bought my '95 C220. Could not afford more $ back then, so could not even consider the E. Looking forward to hearing Peter84's response...

slingshot80 · March 2002

A dealer around Boston is offering the C240 for $299 a month with $2,500 down. 10,000 miles per year. This is very low for a +30K automobile. The IS 300 is $399 a month with I believe about $3,000 down. My wife's $22,000 Impala two years ago was $250 a month with $2,500 down.

I assume that this is because of the reliability issues. I am interested in leasing one but I am concerned about the reliability of this automobile. Any advise?

mleskovar · March 2002

Has nothing to do with reliability, or lack of, or horsepower, or color, or anything but dealer cost. Advice? Drive it, and if you like it, buy it. If my C were to be stolen/totaled today I would buy another one. Is this a new car they are leasing?

fedlawman · March 2002

Mercedes leases are attractive because the residuals are high, hence the cost of depreciation over three years is lower than most other manufacturers. Just watch out for the sales tax...it gets hefty with $30K+ autos.

djasonw · March 2002

The price sounds correct assuming a residual of ~ 60%. The vehicle they are quoting probably has NO options. Once they get you in the door that price will turn into $399 (assuming you want a sunroof, leather etc). If you can deal with a base 240 it's not a bad price. The base model has adequate equipment and safety features. MB always gets you on the options which are WAY overpriced.

mbnut1 · March 2002

If you could tolerate having no options and a stick leasing that car might be a smart way to go because at the end of the lease it's going to be difficult to sell and more than likely have a lower value than the residual. This assumes that they would lease you a base car. The post didn't indicate how long the lease was for.

mbnut1 · March 2002

If you could tolerate having no options and a stick leasing that car might be a smart way to go because at the end of the lease it's going to be difficult to sell and more than likely have a lower value than the residual. This assumes that they would lease you a base car. The post didn't indicate how long the lease was for. I think that I would do it given the opportunity.

fedlawman · March 2002

Lease the stripper with a stick!

At lease end, Mercedes will be highly motivated to sell it to you below the residual.

peter84 · March 2002

In response to Paul P and MBNUT 1, it's difficult for me to answer your questions since (1). I had so many serious problems with the C Class and (2). Mercedes gave us a very good deal on the E Class. I liked the C 320 we had when it was running well which was not that often. I'm not a car expert and I don't run cars hard. I thought the C had a lot of nice electronic extras which initially appealed to me, but some of those were creating a lot of the problems we were having. It handled very well and had a lot of pep. The E Class is quite a bit larger and while the current model doesn't have all of the electronic goodies found on the C Class it's a very smooth riding car, (more so than the C) very quiet (again more than the C) and powerful, great pickup and overall a very nice car to drive especially if you do a lot of long distance driving which we do. It also has the same tight turning radius of the C Class, but so far the gas mileage is not as good.

If we hadn't gotten the great deal on the E Class I don't kow if I would have bought it since it is quite a bit more expensive. The new E Class is coming out this summer and should have a lot of the "goodies" that the C Class has and more. We'll probably look for a new car in about 4-5 years, and at that time we'll have to decide whether an E Class is worth the money or not or even if we want another Mercedes. I expect they will improve their quality control, but they are expensive cars and they do charge for a lot of the extras that are standard on lots of other makes and models in the same luxury category.

Sorry I can't be more specific or helpful. I like the E more and more as I drive it. It's a "sweet" car. Is it worth the extra money, maybe. That's really a personal decision and depends on what you think you can afford or want out of a car. I suggest to take it for a long test drive and then decide if there is enough difference.

paul_p · March 2002

Thanks Peter84, I appreciate the background info. Hope to have my 2000 C a good many years, though am always interested in what's new out there!

- Paul

mtroy · March 2002

Has anyone had the dealer (not the factory) install the cell phone. WHen my car was in for service (this time the head light was out), I noticed many adds for the phone, but forgot to ask about it. The factory installed phone I remember was very expensive, about $1400, I think. I gotta think the dealers are even more.

mbga · March 2002

Must give props to the emergency handling of my MB C240. Recently on the am commute, in the rain, was cornering out of a left turn beyond the cross traffic onto a hwy entrance ramp when an car decided to pull from between stopped cars into my path. It would have been easier to avoid if the car had continued, but it stopped blocking my path. Nothing to do but hit the brakes hard and hope not to be hit in the rear (there were cars on my right). The anti-locks kicked in and disaster was avoided. It was one of those slow-motion situations, but there was not a moment where the car didn't feel secure. Don't think that would have been the feel in my prior SUV.

The only accident I've been involved with occurred 15 years ago in an econo-box and would have been avoided in most good cars with anti-lock brakes. I got left-turned and could not stop in time.

shadow123 · March 2002

I have a 2000 C280 Sports Sedan. By the way, its a great car. The car came with Pirelli P6000 tires. They are very noisy tires! Can someone recommend a tire brand that is quietier but still offers the same performance. Maybe in the $100.00 range. Also, I am looking for the website that sells Mercedes Benz accessories. I need lug locks. The dealers in the Washington DC area want $69.00 for them.

jacatlga · March 2002

The phone is a very easy one. Unless someone has coerced a secret from M-B that I haven't been able to, you have to get it from M-B. Have had 3 different models fairly recently all with phone and none would accept the startac I walk around with. Have to keep a cdma and tdma because I use Cingular in Atl and they are the only people that support the tdma so for my SC number I have to have cdma phone. No one in that market supports the tdma. Had a M-B spec Startac stolen from 2000 C 280. Insurance carrier not happy about paying twice as much for the exact same phone with a recognition chip. I agree. I currently have a 2001 CLK with the Timeport which does not impress me.. Battery time seems noticably down from the startac. Just purchased a 2002 E 430 Sport and really wanted to get the V 60 but it was $800+ dollars for the the handset above the $ 1400 had paid for the install kit and voice recognition. Decided I would just swap the Timeport back and forth between the E and the CLK.. I just got an e-mail from Cingular to get a V70 for $249.00(current promotion) plus another $80.00 credit for being a 7 year customer... Very glad I didn't bite at the $800 from M-B. I am really quite bitter about their goughing on the price of the phone and CD. Well, and all their options for that matter... $30,000 cars have bi-xenon's standard and an in dash 6 disc standard. Yet I have to cough up a grand each for these option on a $60,000 auto and I get low-beam xenon's only and a "trunk" (ugh) changer... As I am writing this, I'm thinking...last M-B purchase. I'm just not feeling they have a prouduct that justifies allowing them to treat customer's who can buy whatever they want as if they were the only game in town. I've had a 95 SL 500, a 96 S320, 98 E 320, 2000 C 280 Sport, 01 CLK 430 CAB and the 02 E 430. With the exception of the 00 C 280, and the 01 CLK each newer car has felt less solid, lighter, cheaper. The reason the C 280 and CLK 430 were exceptions is because the C was engineered in the early nineties when M-B built to a standard. The standard. The CLK is just a rebodied "C" platorm which helped it keep the solid feel. The 98 E 320 was a sweet car with lots of tricks that my sisters 93 E didn't have but it didn't feel like the bank vault either. The new disco dashes in the "C" the "S" and the upcoming "E" and "SL" look like they were designed by Chrysler.. Actually, I like the dash design of most Chrysler products better. I think the silver star is getting a little tarnished. M-B is too busy trying to be like everyone else in order to grab new sales, that they have become a different product. A prouduct that cannot command a large premium in price and downright robbery in the option department. Maybe I am a car "[non-permissible content removed]", but I remember when you were happy to pay a 10 grand or more premium for a Benz because it was worth it and you could feel it on the test drive. Not too mention, it came back at resale. If, you could turn loose of it to trade. Usually they were driven 7 or 8 years and passed on to the kids in college or as an extra car for the kids when they started their families.

jacatlga · March 2002

Babbled on so much about my unhappiness with M-B that I didn't touch on the "C" vs the "E" battle. When my 98 E 320 was coming off lease and I was told another 8 months on the CLK 430 Cab that I had ordered in August 99...(this was August 2000) I decided I would get a C 280 Sport in the interim.. In my mind, I was tired of the big "E". Felt like I was driving my mom's car. Wanted smaller and sportier again. Hmmm midlife crisis.. Well, within "2" months I would have traded a limb for that "E" back. Had to replace all four horrible Pirelli's at Purchase could not get them balanced. Pirelli's had to be ordered and so I drove vibrating "C" for 2 weeks. Cont

djasonw · March 2002

I don't post here too often and when I do, I've had praise for my EARLY build C320 Sport. FYI.. the build date was July 2000.

I recently purchased a Subaru WRX Wagon because I hated the high lease payments on my C. I know it sounds crazy, but I simply got bored of my car. Don't get me wrong it's a FANTASTIC car, but I am just one of those people that needs change fairly often when it comes to cars. The WRX is going to have to suit me for a while and I think I won't have to worry about it. Drive one and you'll understand. Anyway... I had someone at work who was genuinely interested in taking over the remainder of the lease (at a discount). I drove the car into Manhattan on Good Friday (NO TRAFFIC!!!) and parked in a garage. When we left work I went over the car with my co-worker. Guess what? The sunroof started acting weird! It would open, but in 1.5-2 inch increments after I released the switch. Same thing with closing it too. The sunshade refused to even raise! Everything else seemed to work but those two things cropped up.

I think I am going to subscribe to the KISS (keep it simple stupid) philisophy for my future car purchases. I now sympathize with people on this forum who have been plagued with problems. I FEEL your pain and frustration. I can't wait for 22 months to be over!!

jacatlga · March 2002

Needless to say the little "C" and I did not get off to a great start. Wow, what a difference 10 grand makes. Felt like a 20 grand downgrade. The C 280 had no off line torque.. Corrected with C 320 the sport package rode worse than a Mustang GT and with the horrible in town roads in Atlanta and the shaking on the highway, I'm surprised a have a filling left in any of my teeth. Lack of comfort, lack of power. Climate control nowhere near as precise. Noticed same problem with CLK which has dual controls. In the "C" size cars you just sit too close to the vents. After the first month of repairs on the CLK I demanded an M-B product to drive instead of loaner Honda. Was given a new bodystyle "C". Much better ride and performance but didn't feel as solid as old car. Didn't feel as solid as the "E"..Designed pre Chrysler..What was M-B thinking...Chrysler??? I would have aligned myself with Nissan, or Daewoo. The dash in the "C" looked like the last rental car I had driven...Nothing like a Mercedes. After a week or so they put me in an ML 320. Their request, not mine. After a couple of days, I requested the Honda back. It drove better and had a standard CD player. I would really be concerned when a customer requested a Honda product over anything in the M-B coral. One thing.. definitely buy the M-B in a smaller city. They are glad to get the business. Here in Atlanta M-B's are as common as Toyotas.. No lack of customer's to motivate them to treat you better. They really think it okay to keep your car "2" wks over a minor problem. Oh, most of all the "E" is the least problematic product. They sell a million of them in Europe and a bunch here...They are their bread and butter so to speak..and they keep the prolems to a minimum. Just my personal observances and discussions with my service writer, whom I love. I think she is the only reason I am still in an M-B product. Truly, a holdover from the old M-B and knows what customer service means. Note to Atlanta Classic Cars...keep Kim Harward-Cates happy.

mbnut1 · March 2002

Appreciate your post. Not sure where it leaves you relative to the 2002 E430.

michhala · March 2002

jacatlga wrote:
>Yet I have to cough up a grand each for these >option on a $60,000 auto and I get low-beam >
>xenon's only

jac in atlanta -- I was under the impression that the use of high-beam xenons was not allowed in the USA. Do I have the wrong information?

Miki

castinstone · March 2002

A Xenon thread was going on in the 3-series forum. Shipo posted some links for additional information. This one seems to have the most thorough information.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/engineering/illumin/archives/spring2000/etc/xenon/

High beam Xenons are legal, but they must be self-adjusting. So if you put 1000 lbs of rocks in your trunk, the lights need to self-adjust down so as to not shine up into oncoming traffic. The bi-xenons are currently an option on the 3 series.

michhala · March 2002

Thank you for the link -- I need to study it a bit more. The low-beams are self-adjusting and IMHO needed on the C320 -- (not so the obligatory headlamp washers and heated seat packages in CA for someone who keeps their headlamps clean) I did not have Xenons on my first C320 and on dark fwys late at night with no traffic, the regular high beams were often necessary. I have a second C320 with low-beam Xenons and never need to turn on the high beams, so I guess this makes the high-beam Xenon a moot point in my case.

Miki

benz747 · April 2002

Hi,

From yesterday while playing CD, I get CD Track only on display and after a while No Magazine msg ! has anybody received similar type of msg and if yes what need to be done? can it be resolved or CAR need to be taken in service centre ?
for information my radio and tape works fine

please advise - thanks in advance

aggie76 · April 2002

Help. Thought I had my decision down to Acura TL-P or S version this week. Then I saw a new C-Class and realized my heart doesn't really race with the Acura though my pocket book does. Did a quick back to back test drive yesterday of C240 & C320 and while the engine is big difference it appears you can option both alike except for engine and pollen filter. Can any of you with experience give me pointers, reality check on C240 vs C320.

Obviously MB is more expensive than Acura but I am almost willing to overlook that. I've tested everything out there (3.2TL-P & Type S, A4 & A6, I35, Passat, 330 & 525, ES300, IS300, CTS, Diamante, Avalon, G35, I35, 9-5 Arc & Aero, 300M, S60AWD) but never looked at MB C-class until yesterday in my search to replace my current company car Lexus GS300. Want something that is not only safe, reliable and luxury image but also causes a little heart thump everytime I look it over & drive it. Being almost 50 & a 6'2" 250+ guy doesn't remove the thrill & excitment of the auto world but space is also a concern for me. This is my work car and second car for family as we have an MDX for kids & dog travel times.

Any ideas, suggestions??? Seem to be leaning toward a C240 with C1, C2, C3 & C4 packages and Xenon's.

crankster · April 2002

aggie76 - The thrill will quickly be gone after you get used to the noise, harshness & relative lack of power of the C240. I heavily suggest that you go back to the MB dealer with the heaviest coat you wear (I know you're in Texas) and see if you still feel comfortable in the MB. Having owned the C240 for 18 months I often feel cramped in it. I'm taking delivery of a new LS430 this weekend, and on top of the reliability, the thing I'm looking forward to having with the Lexus is SPACE.

fedssocr · April 2002

I personally don't think the C320 is worth the extra $$$ over the 240, but I know others disagree. I think some one your size may feel a bit cramped in the C, but of course actually driving the car is the only way to find out. I have never experience an excessive amount of noise, harshness, or lack of power in my C240, so I don't know where those comments come from.

If I were you though, I would also take a look at the new Infiniti G35. Sounds like it is very reasonably priced and lots of bang for the buck. If I were shopping for a new car today that would be at the top of my list.

aggie76 · April 2002

I looked at G35 and didn't like intrusion from center console into my lower leg. Really uncomfortable and annoying but it is a great car at a nice price.

Thanks for all the advice, I am going over at lunch to borrow a C240 for the afternoon in running around town doing errands so I will get a better feeling for space by getting in and out of it quite a bit.

mleskovar · April 2002

C240 seems to go well with the manual trans. If you don't get a thrill out of fast acceleration the 240 with auto is fine. Both feel rock solid but not harsh and track like on rails with very little sway. I'm 6'1" 175 and feel there is more than enough room. Hey...it's supposed to be a "sports sedan" so if that's what you're looking for size it out. If you want roomy and cushy keep looking. I'm pleased with my 320.

aggie76 · April 2002

Well, spent 3.5 hours today with both 240 and then 320. Really like the 320 pickup and response, 240 is fine but did lag a bit. Space is a premium and while I didn't take a coat with me it was really snug for my size. Loved road feel and MB experience. Just don't think I'll be that happy with the lack of space. Darn, I really wanted to like it just can't afford the $$$ for the E-class yet.

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