Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

robwall53 · September 2002

Good afternoon. I'm after opinions from experienced C280 owners/drivers: which do you prefer, the inline 6 (1997 and before) or the V6 (1998 and after)? The opinions from those I've solicited here in Seattle are so mixed (from owners and mechanics) that I need to broaden my sampling via Town Hall! Thanks.

essweb · September 2002

According to Edmund incentive info.

Anyone purchase a C320 or C240 lately? and what is the price you paid for?

kycchicken · September 2002

Just got a 02 C230 coupe; red, automatic, C5 premium package, C7 wheel package and CD changer for $27300! This is $1657 below invoice! And no I didn't took the one that sitting in the parking lot; they located one from NY and ship it back to NJ for me.
Now beat that BMW!

nyccarguy · September 2002

While your gripes are valid, and I haven't gotten the new C&D yet (So I don't know what options were on the C320 they tested), I can tell you that it is very easy to push the MSRP of a C320 north of $45K. Now granted most of them out there aren't optioned as well, but I'll say many of the C320s I see on the road stickered for somewhere in the low $40K range.

Historically MBs have been more expensive than their competition (you remember the previos generation S Class). Again, I think Mercedes makes a great car, they're just expensive compared to their competition.

I think Mercedes has been building cars to win favorable magazine reviews as of late (I'm being fecious, but you get the point) instead of building a true Mercedes. But that's an argument for another topic.

robwall53 · September 2002

I do this (write reviews) for a living. Readers often misread the intent of reviews, or they read their own preferences into a review; in either case, they are apt to be disappointed. A C-class MB is NOT a performance sedan; it is an entry-level high-spec touring sedan. A real difference in both pop and handling. I own a C280, a SVT Contour (a wonderful car, BTW), and a 3-series BMW. Love them all, but each has a different application, a different ride, a different joy and purpose. Having said this, in IMHO, the C280/C320 (but not C230) Benz in the best blend of both worlds. BTW, I think the "sport" option is over-rated and, in any case, marginalizes the interior too much to be worth the difference in handling.

For what it's worth...

404c · September 2002

Well, for starters neither seem to be particularly noble engines; the IL 6 is renowned for oil leaks and typically has recurrent head gasket problems, while the V6 is only a Mercedes-Benz V8 with two cylinders amputated, with improper 90 degree bank spacing and the attendant imbalances, necessitating a counter-rotating balance shaft. Having written that, the V6 is a quite good application in practise, considering its compromised origins. The C 240 is a nice, if less-than-torquey car to drive, at least in manual form. A benefit of the V6 is that it likely results in a safer car in the event of a collision, its block being considerably shorter than the IL 6, giving more programmable crush space for the designers to work with.

About the distinction between BMW 3er "Sport Sedans" and C Class "Entry Level Touring Sedans", I'd say that these are nearly meaningless generalisations invented by marketing people who lack adequate descriptive capability.

I have driven both extensively and I'd be hard-pressed to find any major, significant difference between, for example, a 320i and a C 240 in handling and roadholding. Perhaps the distinction between the two becomes clearer with the 330i and C 320, particularly if the BMW is fitted with the optional "sport" suspension. A suspension which is, by the way, not too happy coping with uneven pavement in corners when driven quickly. But both cars in their lower spec form are very close in feel and the choice one makes between them is mainly attributable to intangibles, in my opinion.

For real world driving, the Mercedes-Benz C suspension is head and shoulders above the bone-jarring and skittish-on-bumps BMW Sport suspension. If you live and drive on a racetrack, the 330i Sport is the preferred option, I will admit.

To my mind, the C 230 Kompressor Coupé represents the best of both worlds: very good handling/roadholding, massive torque and very tight performance in a package that is stylish, commodious and potentially very economical if driven carefully. Sure, it's only a four cylinder engine, but it's a lot nicer than the 2.6 L V6. Too bad the 4 cylinder Kompressor engines are not sold in the C sedan in North America. That's why I have a 2002 C 230 K.

robwall53 · September 2002

Thanks, 404c; your response is most helpful. I've not had problems yet with my C280. I also agree with your take on "sport" models, especially in the MB C-class which compromises the interior in its Sport model. IMHO, the sport option in the BMW 3-series is more decisive and should be considered before purchase. I chose against it; but there was a real choice to make in the case of the BMW, whereas this just isn't so with the MB. BTW, I also like the post-1999 C230. Very sweet car, although I tend to like 4d.

Let me ask you about my '96 C280: do you recommend any aftermarket products/adjustments to this engine, or would you agree "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

404c · September 2002

I'd leave it alone; it is a good engine in standard form and the only potential concern is to check pre-emptively for head gasket problems occasionally. With or without head gasket issues, it should be good for a very high mileage, which is something I admire in a car, driving them as I do for 10+ years and 300,000+ km. To date my favourite car is the Peugeot 404 Coupé - I've owned one of these since 1981. I liked the W202 C Class, but it looks rather square-rigged and straight-laced next to the more flamboyant/stylish W203. I see the latter as M-B moving towards (but not into) BMW 3 marketing territory and driving feel.

jrct9454 · September 2002

I've published this at least twice, but one more time:

Dealer Incentives on '02 Cs:

Coupe - $1000
Sedans [BOTH] - $1500
Wagon - $3000

The latter figure only applies to the wagon, not the C320 sedan, which gets the lower amount.

mercedesc240 · September 2002

I just closed a deal on a 2002 C240 this past friday. The selection was pretty limited but i picked up a 2002 Metallic Silver C240 with premium leather and the C2 package for $31,345. I am going to pick it up the 10th and i can hardly wait!

nachiketajoshi · September 2002

I have a chance to buy a MB Kompressor 230 of 2000 model with about 30K miles for considerably below its TMV/KBB price. The reason the price is sweet is that the car has been "CONSUMER RE-PURCHASE" for "NO START CONDITION & FUEL GAUGE". The seller on ebay tells me it has been since repaired by the authorized MB repairshop, and in all likelihood, it was broken fuelguage that misread the empty tank as full, hence "no start condition". The car still has 13 months factory warranty left.
Two questions:
1. What would you suggest/advise/recommend to a potential buyer about such "manufacturer-reconditioned" car buying situation?
2. I want to get it shipped (insured) from Dallas to Omaha. Any good/bad experiences about a used car getting shipped (was it a satisfying experience for anyone here?)

Thanks a lot in advance!

404c · September 2002

The other phrase for this is "LEMON TITLE". The question is, did the "no start condition" which by definition must have happened 4 times without the dealer or manufacturer being able to repair it, really get repaired?

My advice is run, don't walk away from any offer for you to buy a lemon. There are far better things to buy with your money. Like a nice reliable Toyota ;-)

dlc95035 · September 2002

Speaking of lemons - has anyone had to deal with this situation?

I'm currently going through this with a new BMW 325i I just purchased & if I can get my money back, I'm thinking of a C320.

My car's in the dealer for the 4th time for a fail-safe problem (in 6 weeks of ownership & 1200 miles!)& they are now planning to replace the wiring harness & are waiting for the part to come in from Germany since it's not a US stock item!

Anyway, the dealer knows he can no longer restore my confidence in this car; how can I get BMW NA to agree too?

sovren · September 2002

My 2001 C320 has been having this problem with what I will call stuttering at very slow speeds. Just when you begin to inch forward. They took it in and after 5 attempts to fix it they replaced the torque converter. This actually seemed to fix it. I took the car home, gave it to my wife and she puts the car in reverse to leave the garage and the damn thing goes forward! By the way, I was standing in front of it. Almost got me.

So I press the wrench button and tell the operator to come get this POS. They do and after a day they tell me the tech forgot to replace the pin that connects the shift lever to the transmission.....oops! They are very lucky I wasn't killed or that it didn't happen in a parking lot.

I told them my wife informed me that she would never drive the car again and that I wanted a new car. They offered me a 2003 C for like 10K. I said, no thanks.

Well after a few weeks of playing hardball, looks like I will be getting a new 2003 E320 for about 10k. Alot of money,yes, but 2 years newer and way more car.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

mugen000 · September 2002

I'm buying a C230 in two weeks and I don't know if I should get a 2002 or 2003 model?
Any suggestions?

Thanks

mbnut1 · September 2002

If my understanding is correct the motor has been updated for the 2003. Given that the '03 would be a no brainer.

404c · September 2002

The update of the engine in the 2003 model C 230 K Sportcoupé consists of fitting a 1798 cc engine in place of the former 2295 cc engine.

The 1798 cc engine is all aluminum, has counter-rotating shafts to smooth it out and gets better fuel economy (6%) than the outgoing model.

It is also less powerful, and (more importantly) less torquey.

The 1.8 is listed at 189 HP and the 2.3 has 192.

The 2.3 engine developed its maximum torque of 280 Nm between 2000 and 4500 rpm.

The 1.8 engine develops its maximum torque of 260 Nm between 3500 and 4000 rpm.

So where the 2.3 (which I have) pulls like a train at 2000 rpm in any gear, the newer one will have to be revved harder and shifted more often to make similar progress.

In absolute terms the speed of the new 1.8 model is only slightly down - it does 0-100 km/h in 8.1 seconds versus 8.0 for the 2.3 L engine. But the way the old engine does this is effortless due to its massively wide torque spread, whereas you'll have to work the new engine a lot harder.

The specific power of the new M271 engine is well over 100 HP/L and the old one is in the mid 80s. Thus I think there's more "room" to reliably modify the 2.3 for more power if that's your bag. Many long-time Mercedes-Benz mechanics think the old M111 engine is the best one they made in recent times.

Finally, the new engine is in its first months of production and I would not be surprised to see it suffer from a number of "teething problems". If you want to read more about this engine, go to MBSpy and look under M271 engine series - there's a long press release on it.

Overall, if this sounds like a vote for the 2.3 L 2002, so be it.

404c · September 2002

I got the torque range for the 2002 C 230 K wrong - the maximum torque figure is developed between 2500 and 4800 rpm, not 2000 and 4500 rpm, as I wrote above. Sorry about that.

jrct9454 · September 2002

I've rejoined the MB family, with my 14th in the past 35 years. The pricing on the '02 Cs was too good to pass up, so we bought an '02 C240 from the dealer in Sacramento CA, with the deal as follows:

MSRP with Automatic, Met Pnt, and C2: $34,525
Price Paid: $30,025 [$4500 off] plus taxes.

I feel like we got a good deal, and they still made a couple of hundred bucks on it after holdback. This car was among at least 10 others, and had been around in stock for a long time, so there was absolutely no trouble in striking the deal.

We needed a comfortable, safe touring car, not a sports sedan. That said, a really basic BMW 325 was an alternative, as well as a base G35, but the combination of ride and silence at speed, not to mention my long relationship with the brand, cinched the deal.

Incidentally, my research indicated that '03s were already available in SoCal for $600 over invoice with no hassles, and probably less if you wanted to dicker, but we plan on keeping the car long enough that the extra discount on the '02 means more. I do like the new Pewter color for '03, though - ours is Bordeaux red, which is gorgeous to look at but high-mtc to keep up to my standards.

So, back in the MB saddle again...

robwall53 · September 2002

Given what's available for $30k, you chose very wisely. Suggestion: I have my cars fully detailed once a year (typically in early June at the end of our "rainy season" here in Seattle). Makes routine upkeep of difficult, darker colors much easier; and cleaning engine makes it run cooler.

BTW, in discussing my engine temp with local mechanics, I've found that MB engines generally run warmer than others. Keeping them clean helps lower it a wee bit.

cira · September 2002

At highway speeds I get a significant amount of vibration through the automatic gear shifter (such that it is uncomfortable to rest my hand on - the vibration is not visible). This just started recently (about 4 months after my purchase). Does anyone else notice this? I am trying to determine if this is normal movement.

mbnut1 · September 2002

Congrads. Sounds like you got a tremendious bargain. Let us know how you like it. I understand completely the phrase back in the saddle again when it comes to Benz's

404c · September 2002

I would take a guess that your car's engine mounts may be faulty and are therefore allowing additional vibration to penetrate the interior. This is a known problem - with a service bulletin - ask about it at the MB dealer and they'll probably change the engine mounts for you. That should solve the problem.

nyccarguy · September 2002

While Tooling around on MBUSA's latest iteration of their website, I noticed that there was no Sport Package option to choose on either the C240 or C320 Sedans. Is there no more Sport Package available? I think the 5 spoke wheels coupled with the lower suspension make the C-Class look more aggressive.

robwall53 · September 2002

I've said this before, and now again in response to nyccarguy's post: unlike the BMW Sport package, which makes a significant difference, I do not think the Sport adds much if anything to the C ride. I'm not sure I even like its look, and would prefer to spend my money on AMG wheels. For this reason, I think it wise for MB to end it as an unnecessary concession to keep up with the Bimmers.

jrct9454 · September 2002

...for what it's worth, I've always thought the Sport Pkg was a waste...but to each his own...

ahost · September 2002

Did you see: Edmunds recently made two comparison tests of entry level luxury/sports sedans. None of them included the MB C-class! I find that completely unbelievable. If any brand defines luxury, it is MB. It's like making a sports car comparison without including Porsche, or sport sedan without including BMW! What is going on here, does Edmunds have an anti-MB bias?

lg5 · September 2002

Has anyone driven this new model.? Do any E class owners have any thoughts on the 4MATIC ride vs. 2 wheel drive.? ABout to order a 2003 and not sure of which options are worth it... THANKS!

jrct9454 · September 2002

...my opinion is that the C is not a "sports sedan", and thus is out of place in most of these comparisons with BMWs and Gs. It's a touring sedan, with comfort and safety put before handling and absolute cornering power. This is why the car consistently brings up the rear in most of the magazine comparison tests - these guys, and they are almost always guys, want handling above everything else, period - and EXACTLY why I chose my C240 over the comparable 325. I wanted silence, a better ride, and long-distance comfort more than that last 5% of absolute cornering power and those "quick responses" that the magazine testers [INCLUDING Edmunds] value so much.

Just as well they didn't include the C - it would have finished dead last anyway, for the reasons noted above....and this paying customer [as opposed to "journalists" who borrow cars for a few days] could absolutely not care less.

jrct9454 · September 2002

No customer has driven the car in North America because it's not yet available. You can count on the system being seamless, but it will add weight, and thus lower absolute performance a bit. Depends entirely on how much you want the extra traction - the actual driving experience on past models changes very little from 2wd on dry roads and good conditions.

If I lived in an area with a lot of precip and/or snow, I think I would opt for it without much hesitation, notwithstanding the weight/performance penalty.

mbnut1 · September 2002

How about a little comparo of the new C with your previous Benz's? Any preferences one way or another with the E? Thanks

jrct9454 · September 2002

It's a little early for real comparisons, so I'll reserve the right to say more when we get some real miles under our belts, which should happen in the next couple of weeks. First impressions, though:

-As quiet as any car we've ever owned, including the W210 E, which was excellent.

-Ride quality just a hair short of the last E, but as good as the last S we had [a 126 bodied 300SD].

-Good seats, about on a par with the best we've had.

-Performance is about what I expected, which is nothing special, but the short gearing at least has the advantage of allowing you to squirt ahead quickly once you're at speed.

-I'm not a fan of all the electronic doo-dads, especially the TeleAid thingie, which took three tries to successfully activate and get the display to stop telling me it wasn't alive. Trip computer is fine, but I would prefer a real dipstick to check the oil, thanks. Just my age showing, no doubt.

But I'll tell you this, for sure: as MBs go, the price we got combined with the car makes me feel pretty good. Coupe owners should feel even better [ I just couldn't live with the firmer ride and extra noise of the Coupe, but it was a close call ] with the extra $5k in their pockets.

Perspective: our '84 190E 2.3 [delivered Nov '83] was priced at $24,450 before tax; we paid $30,000 before tax, 19 years later, for the C240. You do the math. And there is simply NO comparing these two cars - the distance between the W201 and W203 might as well be the moon. More power, better ride, better handling, quieter, smoother, ABS, ESP, better seats, curtain and side airbags, more trunk, more back seat...I could go on. In this respect, MB's claim to more value actually holds up.

What's changed in that 19 years, of course, is that the competition has become a whole lot tougher and more sophisticated [the '03 Honda Accord would be Exhibit A]; however, in the end, there is a feel to these cars that I haven't been able to duplicate, so here we are again.

More as we get some real seat time. There are a couple of swingouts planned for early October. In the meantime, the dealership just called to remind me of my service appt for Monday - I'm trying to get the one predelivery defect fixed, which is a tendency to wander off to the right at speed - the wheel alignment needs the tender mercies of the very competent tech who handles this for MB Sacto. Fingers crossed...

mbnut1 · September 2002

Thanks for the review. As a former 201 owner I agree that the car is a tremendeous value particularly given what you paid and I think the the sedan is well worth the difference. Awaiting your future updates. Good luck with the allignment. I'm sure if anybody will get it straightened out (no pun intended) you will given that you know more about it than 95% of the people who work on the cars.

merc1 · September 2002

Post #5680, well said! I feel the same way when it comes to Car and Driver and Mercedes-Benz. They recently ranked the C320 Sport next to last, but upon their initial driver they claimed that it came ever so close to matching the 330i in the handling/sport dept, but now it's not even close.

M

mbnut1 · September 2002

How does the new C stack against your Corolla? I remember you thought quite highly of the Corolla when you got it. Are you finding the new C to be twice the car the Corolla is? I ask this sincerely as my heart wants the C but the stressed out employee of a continuously downsizing firm thinks the Corolla may bring more piece of mind.

jrct9454 · September 2002

...of what we do, and in fact while occupying the same space on the road [exact same length and width] is actually roomier inside both the cabin and the trunk.

The 5% is use on longer trips - anything over 4 hours can become a trial because of the combination of the firmer ride, extra noise [though this car is noticeably quieter than a Civic], and seats.

Since we are traveling more by car now, and less by air [just like so many other people you read about], the C seemed like a reasonable investment. Is it twice the car? - well, no. I was willing to pay a premium for what I wanted, but cars like the Corolla and Civic are arguably all the car many people need.

There have been some teething problems with the '03s, but as always, fewer and less annoying than you would expect from the Germans or Americans in an equally new model. Ours was trouble-free in all important respects, but others have had complaints about dash noises, and recalls for a small number of cars about tires and axle bolt torquing. The car seems to be in shorter supply than you'd expect, and we got a good price for ours as a result.

mbnut1 · September 2002

Thanks for the honest feedback

The only thing that I had a real objection to the Corolla was the rear suspensions ride. I have a 5 hr drive home to my family and I didn't think I could endure the way it reacted to our midwestern expansion joints. But I was never sure that it wasn't due to the tires being over inflated.

jrct9454 · September 2002

...yes, it is very sensitive to tire pressure. It uses 195/65x15 tires, to hold up only 2700 lbs [ MB has used the same size on the 124 E and 202 and 203 C, for cars that weigh up to 800 lbs more ], and the factory recommended 30 psi is actually overkill. Everyone is hyper about tire failures and lawsuits, but this car behaved better, and was just as safe, with the tires at 28 psi. In any case, the average Joe was being encouraged by the various "experts" to run up to 35 psi or more, and that is insane, and ruins the ride.

By contrast, the 203 C sedan is much less sensitive in its ride quality - the factory says 28 front and 32 rear, and we are running 31 all around, with no deterioration in ride. Once you get above about 34 psi, you begin to feel it in the C if you're sensitive [ most people aren't ], but the Germans have a magic about springs, shocks, and sway bar settings that no one else can match. This is why I stay away from 'sport pkgs', whether they come from MB, BMW, Audi, or VW, because they take the one claim to fame these cars have over their competition and degrade it. The prime reason we picked the C sedan is the combination of ride and silence...in this size class, only the BMW 325 comes close. The 330 now has the 'sports suspension' as std, with low profile tires and firmer shocks, and it crosses the line for me. This is what I mean about the distinction between a sports sedan and a touring sedan...

hrod61 · September 2002

I purchased this car in May 2002 and about a month later, my wife and I began noticing a strong "musty" odor coming from the AC vents when the vehicle is first started in the morning. The smell quickly goes away as the AC runs. I have taken the car in to the dealer 3 times since we first noticed this and they can not correct the problem. Has anyone else, who owns a C240, noticed this problem? If so, has it been corrected?

jrct9454 · September 2002

...common causes include an evaporator drain that is not running freely, and the need to replace the cabin filter. The former is a prime suspect, but once cleared, the latter is necessary to assure no lingering effects. Just what has the dealer checked in those three visits? I always like to know what they've tried, even if there has been no success - without an understanding of where they're poking around, it's hard to know what to recommend as a next step - except the obvious one of calling for regional service help through your dealer's service manager. Three strikes, and it's time to ask for outside assistance...

hrod61 · September 2002

The first visit, they just put some strong disinfectant in the vents. The second time, they replaced the evaporator, supposedly, and claim they checked the drains and there were no problems. The third time, they supposedly checked the entire system and could not find any problem. They again sprayed some disinfectant/deodorant in the system. I had to suggest that they replace the cabin filter, which they supposedly did, but the smell is back!!

jrct9454 · September 2002

...in the right areas, so that leaves my last suggestion - time to call in the next level of expertise.

mbnut1 · September 2002

IMHO the ride quality of 202C sport package stunk. The 203 is much better as is my Audi's.

404c · September 2002

The only real, permanent solution is to turn the A/C off a couple of miles before you get to your destination. That gives the evaporator a chance to warm up and shed its condensation before the car sits overnight or longer.

If you stop with the thing nearly ice cold and moist with condensation, the bugs and molds grow overnight and make the "nice" biology experiment that you're breathing and complaining about. In humid areas this is more of a problem than in drier areas.

mleskovar · September 2002

How about pushing "REST" when you leave the car? This will circulate air within the cab for 30 minutes after activation. Clean the system first using one of the available aerosol products so you'll have a good comparison. I don't have the problem so can't say this works for me, but I'm curious if it would help.

404c · September 2002

Yes of course, use Rest mode - that should do the same thing as shutting the A/C down early while still driving.

hrod61 · September 2002

Thanks, I'll try the REST mode and see if it works. Too bad my dealer did not suggest this to me! Which aerosol product are you referring to for cleaning the system?

mleskovar · September 2002

I haven't needed to use any so I can't comment. Wurth makes a product that I've seen advertised for this purpose and is carried by http://www.properautocare.com/ You could probably go to the auto parts store and inquire as well.

beth29 · September 2002

I recently purchased a 1998 230 C sedan with 27000 miles. I never dreamed I would own a mercedes. I do love this car - comfort, ride,quiet etc; however, the transmission does not seem real smooth, particularly between 1st and 2nd. My husband says he doesn't even notice it. The service department says this has something to do with "warming up the catalytic converter" and should occur the first mile. While it does improve, I must say I still notice it. I did see a review of the 1997 model on Edmunds that references a lag and jerky transmission". Is this inherit in the model or something I should get fixed while the warranty is in effect?

fedssocr · October 2002

I received a letter in the mail from MBUSA yesterday outlining their settlement in a class action suit. It says that my C now has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. I'm not clear however if this is a total vehicle warranty or if it only applies to potential engine trouble caused by the oil used in the car, which was the issue in the lawsuit. Anyone else get this letter?

Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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