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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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Comments

  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Interesting discussion. Has the "key" problem been fixed then? (Seem to recall hearing a lot of problems related to keys in the early days.)

    My experience is perhaps typical with Otto (99 C280) (electrical gremlins mainly: inop sound system, 3xblown instrument lights, 1xblown taillight, finicky operating sunroof control, and one semi-serious engine problem in which a pulley at the front of the engine shed a rather important looking piece of rubber causing an unscheduled trip to the service dept.) Otherwise my W202 is still pretty much as solid as a rock, quiet, smooth, powerful...just wish it had a 6 speed:)

    cu...rich
  • cabbatan1cabbatan1 Member Posts: 40
    I am in the process of researching my next vehicle and I have decided that it will be a wagon. One of the wagons that I am interested in is the C240 which of course is new for the 03 model year along with the offering of 4-matic AWD.
    Living in Toronto,this is an option that would be of interest to me. My concern is that 168 hp isjust not going to be adequate given that the 4-matic will be at least 200 lbs or so heavier than the non awd version. The C320 would be perfect but the cost is getting a little high with that engine. Does anyone have any thoughts on this car with this new option?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Yes, there will be the usual mid-life kicker for the W203 C for the '04 model year [10 calendar months from now]. Look for the usual stuff: small changes in exterior trim [rocker panels, bumpers], new wheel design, a standard single-slot CD to replace the cassette, and yes, just possibly some new engine choices. Just enough to keep the car from looking unchanged for the full 6-7 model year run of the current chassis.

    As for the performance of the 2.6 engine with 4-matic, I know for a fact it would be quite good enough for me, but everyone has different tastes in these matters. Our '02 C240 sedan has only 1800 miles on it, so it is still not making all the power it will eventually, and I find it entertaining to drive and fun on onramps. Everyone wants more hp, and I would never kick it out of bed, but it is not necessary to keep this car from being both safe and fun, and that would be just as true with the extra poundage that the AWD hardware represents.

    Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked to see more hp as part of the '04 facelift in the entry-level engine, either with internal changes or by bumping the displacement to 2.8. The new 4-valve heads are coming, and they alone will make a small positive difference to all of the engines, though the focus there is on emissions and fuel consumption more than raw power.

    Personally, I think the current obsession with increasing hp in the NA market has gone more than far enough, but no one asked me and don't expect them to anytime soon...
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    When I press the brake, I can feel it vibrates. It is a 01 C320. It happened from the 1st day. Is it a problem? I also have a TOYOTA CAMRY, it is very smooth when press the brake.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Knowing how/what vibrates will help the dealer fix the problem. Steering wheel or brake pedal? Frequency? At any rate, nothing should vibrate....take it in for warranty service.
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    It is the brake pedal. It vibrates everytime I press the pedal. I think they use fluid to control the brake, so I should feel nothing. In my case it feels like they use machanical stuff to control the brake.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    You have a case of warped brake rotors. Easy for the dealer to handle under warranty. Don't wait too long - the longer you wait, the more ammunition you give them to deny the claim. Frankly, you should have been back there within the first month for this problem; a good dealer won't argue, but some might.
  • checkmecheckme Member Posts: 73
    Warped rotors are an increasingly common problem these days. They are most often caused by overtorquing the lugs when the wheel is mounted. Going to a decent mechanic will help you avoid this, as he or she will instruct their personnel on how to properly use a torque wrench when mounting a wheel. If you have your tires rotated at the corner service station by the 16 year-old cashier, though...

    A reputable independent mechanic or your Mercedes dealer should allow you to avoid this problem in the future.
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    The car only got a A service at the dealer, nothing else in one and half years. I did have one tire (rear left) fixed once at a tire center. But this vibration exists from the first day. My wife drives this car and I drive a TOYOTA CAMRY. So, when I switch to this car, I can feel the big difference on the brakes. I remember in this forum, long time ago, people talked about warped rotors. Is this a special problem for MB? I also noticed that on MB, BMW and VOLVE, they all have very heavy brake dust on the front wheel. What's the problem?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    All of the EU brands favor a softer pad compound, in part to help keep the rotors from wearing out faster. The result is a lot of dust.

    No, MB has no special problems with rotors warping. In fact, it is the Japanese brands [Honda and Toyota] who often suffer from this syndrome more often than the EU cars.

    Warpage is usually caused [as noted above] by one of two things: improper torquing of the wheel bolts, or hitting the rotors with cold water when they are hot and not turning. This causes the area of the disc still under the pads to cool at a different rate than the rest of the disc. If you take it to a car wash, make sure the brakes have at at least a few minutes to cool down after a run on the freeway.
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    Thanks for the comments. I think probably the rotors were not mounted correctly at the begining. Because I felt it at the first day and I never brought the car to car wash, I always wash it myself when the car is cold.

    To tell the truth I don't like the brakes of MB at the very begining. It is hard to press, not sensitive and generate a lot of dust.
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Hi all - Got a chance to drive the new W203 C class today. I was struck by a number of things that were different and some that were the same. My current car is Otto, a 99 C280 W202 with 39K.

    Interior/features - Generally better. I thought that both cars fit and finish the equal to the 202 C class. I saw no flaws or blems in the interior. I noticed small improvements like the detents on the air deflectors, the rear seat a/c outlets, the centre storage console being much better designed. I was not sure about the cup holder, the design seemed pretty cool with the flip over effect; not sure how that would hold up. Liked the bigger glove box, also that it was dual level. I personally thought the switch gear was at least as "solid" feeling as on my car; in particular, the light switch for me represents a good example: in my car there's a good solid "clunk" when turning on the lights, I found the same on the 203 C. Back seat was about the same, still pretty tight back there and in fact I thought it was a little harder to get out of actually. I like the two wipers, and the intermittent sweep. (The one wiper on Otto works ok (now) because I had to finally get a Bosch aftermarket "Micro Edge" blade to stop by the bloody thing chattering...highly recommended)

    Closing the door on the C320 and setting off I thought the ride and quiet was at least as solid as on the 202 C. I thought the shift gate was MUCH smoother to actuate from P to N to D than the mechanical gate in my car. I did not get a chance to operate the - and + buttons (but would be curious if any current 203 owners could post how well this works?)

    Steering and handling/braking equal to, actually better than 202 C. Steering in particular with the (speed sensitive?) rack and pinion was much better, gone was the slightly numb feeling with my 202 C. Lots of road feel, but never a feeling of roughness. Mind you it was not in the same class as my Mini Cooper S, but pretty good actually.

    (as an aside I thought the actual surface of the steering wheel was pretty nice to touch; just slightly rough enough to get a grip on (had left my stringbacks at home:). Don't know if this would wear off leaving a smoother surface in time...)

    Ok...time to boot it...way cool! This has much more "ooomph" than my C280, esp at overtaking speeds from 40-50 ish, kickdown seems "snappier" and throttle response much quicker. New algorithm perhaps? New software algorithm maybe? Or just 30 more horsepower (my money's on the ponies:)

    So, in sum: this car seems to me its every bit a Mercedes, build quality and ride top notch, has everything I would be looking for: smooth, powerful, quiet, fast....

    Ok, enough of that, jumped into the C240 "stripper" (if you can describe a 33K car as a stripper.) There was just the one on the dealer lot, buried back in the new car get ready area. Mentally look for power seat adjuster, discover the rather quaint knobs and levers to mandraulically adjust seat (just like the old days.) Dip clutch, engage first, discover the biting point is a bit higher off the floor than expected. Jerk a bit taking off. First gear seems like it has no torque after the car is under way, I was shifting into second very quickly. Pull out into traffic and merge. Downshift 4/3 and pull around Minivan, seems to pull strongly in the mid ranges (3/4/5). I was only going max of 50 throughout this (speed limit was 50 anyway) evolution so did not see if it ran out of puff at higher speed. Seemed like it was a tick off the 3.2L car, but hard to tell since I was running it through gears to check shifting. I could barely see the tacho but I shift on the engine sound anyway so this was not a big problem. Actually at the end of the test drive I was glancing at the tacho and saw it good enough to judge where the engine was (mind you I was nowwhere near the redline)

    Gearchange seemed solid enough; I had to realise to hold the gate spring going from 5 to 6 (just took one inadvertent downshift from 5 to 4 to realise (again) it was a six speed.) After 15 minutes I was shifting reasonably smoothly, but was still feeling near the top of the take-up some judder in the driveline (I suspect this was actually just exposing my weak left leg after 4 years of languishing with my panty-waist automatic:) I did not notice any particular notchiness, certainly it was not like the action of a bolt action rifle that's for sure. If anything it seemed to me the position of the shift lever was too far to the side and rear of the car for my taste. Another comment would be that the shift gate distance (i.e. from 2nd to 3rd) was larger than perhaps I would have expected.

    Sum up on C240 with 6 speed: Need more time to get used to clutch, more fun (but more work in stop and go) than autobox; seems powerful enough (yet, could any real enthusiast say "no" to a C320 with a 6 speed)

    So, having read any of these ramblings, could anyone comment on the following:

    o How closely does the W203 automatic match a manual gearbox with the "-" and the "+" controls? Do they allow you to down/up shift and hold gears at will? Or do they just delay upshift or what? Can you approach a bend and tap once, twice to downshift and, having put the car into the right gear, then accelerate through and out of the corner? (i.e. like the saying goes, slow in, fast out)

    o Anyone who drives a 6 speed: does your clutch take up/bite near the floor, mid-travel, or upper end of the travel? Has this changed over the period that you've driven it? Do you find it difficult/normal to have a slight judder in take up near the top of the engagement? (And a quick related question is this a hydraulicly connected clutch i.e. does the clutch pedal connect to the clutch master cylinder to clutch slave cylinder via hydraulics or cables?)

    Thanks all, in advance, for any thoughts. I was mighty impressed with both cars, each in their own ways. I'm hoping my portfolio recovers at some point in '03 to be able to get one of these!

    take care...rj
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    Nice review.

    Well we have a 2002 C 230 Kompressor with the 6 speed. The car has the regular 16 inch wheels, hence does not have the so-called "short-shift" kit fitted to the Evolution (C7 in USA) Sportcoupés. Our car's shifter is VERY nice, precise, clean movements. The clutch takes up near the middle of the travel and is beautifully weighted. We never feel the slightest bit of driveline judder during engagements. The W 203 clutch actuation is hydraulic.

    I have driven some automatic C Classes and I do not like the tip-shift function at all. It's counter-intuitive. Every other tip-shift automatic I've seen/driven has a sequential gearbox-type shift protocol, i.e. lever forward to gear up and lever rearwards to gear down. The side-to-side movement of the M-B automatics in tip-shift mode is plain silly. In fact, steering wheel paddles would be the way to go. However, 99% of people buying an automatic Benz let the gearbox do the shifting for them. If you enjoy shifting, get the manual.

    The old 2.3 L 192 HP engine is extremely torquey and has way more grunt than the C 240. It's also very economical when driven gently in 6th. The 1.8 L 2003 model is very nearly as powerful and 7% more economical than its predecessor. But if you don't like the hatch body then you're forced into the less economical V-6 engines.

    And watch for that 6th to 3rd downshift ;-)
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    I'd say its pretty intuitive. If you shift down, the car cannot go above what you've selected. If you merge onto a freeway and don't want to "manually" select 3rd by mashing on the accelerator to see what happens, you can simply tap the shift twice to the left, assuming you're in Drive. The car will stay in 3rd unless you tap once to the right for 4th, or simply hold to the right from anywhere and it will go all the way to Drive. Whatever speed you're going, if you hold the shifter to the left, it automatically goes to the gear you are in. Using the shifter to shift down so as to use the engine for braking when going down hills works pretty well. You're not supposed to be able to manually put the car into a gear that would be too many revolutions for the speed, but you can if you insist on it enough, however, when the car ultimately does make the inappropriate shift, it will be accompanied by the engine automatically cutting off power (and therefore slowing violently) to save the engine from overreving-- this also can be a bit heart stopping so it's good to know what gear you're in. The gear number on the instrument panel is a bit too small, especially compared to the ML, so I'd expect that to be changed in the future. That's my experience with it, which is good. As far as left/right vs. forward/back, BMW had forward for upshifing and back for downshifting and I think changed it after 2000 because acceleration caused persons to sink back into the seat and unintentionally downshift, so all approaches have the pluses and minuses.
  • mbenzc230kmbenzc230k Member Posts: 5
    My 2002 C230K with 1900 miles has creaking noises coming from the windshield's bottom/far-edge of dashboard. It starts out quietly and gets quite loud as you drive on. Has anyone experienced this problem?
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Good review.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Good review. I always enjoy other peoples perspectives on cars that I am interested in. Particularly current owners of the marque.
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Thanks for the info re: the "+" and "-" shifter on your C320. I'll have to schedule another test drive of both auto and 6 speed cars when more time frees up...
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    One more thing about what I called the counter-intuitive tiptronic mode on the M-B auto...which I still think it is.

    It is worth noting that Mercedes-Benz itself uses the forward/aft lever movement for up/downshifts in its cars equipped with the Sequentronic 6 speed sequential manual.

    Some other D-C products are similar - like the smart car, whose 6-speed sequential manual -again- uses the same forward-aft shifter movement.
  • loanman25loanman25 Member Posts: 1
    I am looking at a 98 C230 with 51k miles. I have always dreamed of owning a MB and have loved the looks of this car since day 1. I know I can afford the car... I am concerned about maintenance and repair. My friends "none of which has ever owned a MB" caution me daily on how much it will cost, even to change the wiper blades. I am willing to make the commitment, but what does it really cost to own a MB???

    Don't be gentle. Give it to me straight!

    Thanks!
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Long term ownership costs on these cars are indeed higher than average. The way I handle this is to set aside money on a monthly basis in a "reserve fund" that earns interest, and will be there to pay for what's needed. If it's never needed, I can apply it to the next car.

    [We use this same concept for house repairs, health costs, etc.]

    For a '98 C with a 4 cyl engine, you're talking about a relatively mature design across the board, and the least complex in the line. If you can afford to put aside $1800-$2000 a year to cover the big things that can happen down the road, you can enjoy this car. If not, not...
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    MB labor rates are extremely high and they have a "replace any questionable part" attitude about repairs....not a bad thing, but costly because MB parts from dealers are very expensive. You can buy MB replacement parts for 1/3 to 1/2 of dealer prices from the web and they are identical parts. Independent MB repair shops have lower rates and usually will explain the pros and cons of replacing certain parts. Also, independent shops will often fix a part at a fraction of the replacement cost or even install a used but serviceable part. Like anything else, shop wisely and you'll save. If you insist on MB service only be prepaired to spend a lot of money.
  • stedonstedon Member Posts: 4
    We just got our 2001 C320 back from the dealer's service dept. for the second time after three days of their tech trying to replicate a mystery rattle. No luck. Maybe someone here can help. The car has 22,000 miles. The noise sort of sound like a sound you would hear if there was a leaf caught in the fan blower. But it's not from there. It seems to come from the front center dash, BUT when we open the deep drawer of the console it is noticeably louder. It sounds therefore like it is coming from underneath the car. It is only noticeable when the car is moving and only (it appears) after it has been running awhile. The service tech took the car home two nights back and forth 35 miles each way and indicated that he could not replicate the sound. Any suggestions.
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    I've often thought that it would be interesting to use a "spy" video camera to diagnose things like this.

    From the way you describe it, it has to be an aerodynamic noise. I would suspect some of the plastic cladding on the underbody - it might be missing a clip, catching some air and flapping in the wind. It could also be a missing grommet or damaged weather seal, again giving rise to a high frequency aerodynamic noise. For the underbody, you could have the undertray removed and drive the car - no noise, you've found the problem.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Try changing the position of the center console vent to see if it changes the sound any. If it decreases as you close the vent then you would think the noise originates in the cabin air delivery system.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    It is always refreshing to see the attitudes of Mercedes owners managing their maintainance costs unlike another German marque owners who are so nauseatingly frightened of owning their cars out of warrenty. In all fairness it probably is a statement about the relative reliability of the two makes. I can't wait to get back in the saddle so to speak.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    So, which MB meets your fancy this time? The SL & CLK 500 both look great to me but $90+K is a tough nut. The Maserati Coupe is also intriguing but I can't find a forum on them.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    My price range is well below both of those cars. Which is why managing maintainance cost is such an issue with me. Though I'd obviously love either. Frankly not too much excites me much anymore but my nineteen year old and I got quite a thrill out seeing a silver 03 SL500 on the road. Simply to die for......

    I've been seesawing between a used W210 chassis and W203 preferably a C320. Having a hard time zeroing in on which one. I think that I would prefer to drive the C320 but the W210 chassis has such classic Mercedes beauty and presence.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I currently lease a C320 sport and can't wait for the lease to be over. I currently have a close associate sub-leasing it from me at a loss each month. I liked the car in the begininning but I lost interest after a year. The car is NOT as solid as the Mercedes of years ago. Heck my old C280 had a more solid feel. I recently went to a dealership to check out the new E. The window was down and the door/window rattled like hell when closed. I also have no idea where Mercedes thought they should incorporate a HUGE clock right next to the speedo.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Can you be more specific about your issues with your C320? Particularly as compared with your C280. Thanks
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    Wow, you're condemning the E after a ride in one car? Give it a chance - I'm pretty confident that a window-down rattle is not a designed-in feature. Anyway, if it only occurs when slamming the door I would call it a minor inconvenience, at worst.

    About the HUGE clock in the instrument panel, this is copied from.....Mercedes of old, check out the various 1980s and early 1990s models.

    So what exactly made you lose interest in your C 320? Could you be specific?
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Dave - curious you mentioned comparison of "solidity" of C320 sport vs. C280...would be curious what your perception of that word means?

    Indeed my comparison between my own C280 for 39K and an afternoon with a C320/auto and C240/6 speed convince me exactly the opposite; that MB has put a lot of improvements in the new C that make it a completely different and better car:

    When I got back into my C280, I was struck by how "agricultural" feeling the car was compared with the newer model.

    Specifically, and to wit:

    o lost motion in the shift lever - in the C280 there is a distinct play in the lever action from P to N to D, in the new C the lever slides smoothly into the D-+ position
    o steering - in the C280, you turn the wheel first, then the car turns, in the new C the steering is much quicker and more responsive
    o handling - pretty much the same although I suspect the fatter tyres on new C (interesting they are exactly the same size as the "sport" size on the C280) would yield higher skidpad numbers
    o noise vibration harshness - felt much improved in new C compared with C280
    o throttle response - in the C280 there is a distinct lag in neutral from depressing the throttle to the RPM pickup - this is much quicker in the new C

    ...and of course the ever popular "door shut" test -- all three examples of New C I saw (two driving and one in showroom) all shut with a satisfying "clunk" -- no tinnyness, wobble, shake or vibration felt at all.

    rich
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    Your problem may be solved. Leaf in a fan noise, seems to be coming from different locations in the car, only when the car is moving, tech can't detect it. It's your keys. The C320 is built like a rock and it's quiet too. Obviously, you can hear a tiny little noise but I think there's some kind of parabolic effect at work too. Try just the C's key to see.
  • jbrc320jbrc320 Member Posts: 2
    Low level oil fumes (either crankcase or transmission) are present in passenger compartment. The fumes are not combustion by-products. The sometimes-faint odor seems more like a crankcase vapor problem that is even more noticeable when the windows are down. Five trips to two dealers have resulted in minor repairs to valve cover gaskets, coolant seals, the Hall sensor gasket, pressure cleaning the engine, etc. to no avail.

    Any ideas from anyone before I sell the 2001 C320 and go back to BMW? The odor is not strong enough to attract much attention from the service managers, but enough to cause eye irritation and a funny taste in one mouth after 3-4 hours. A sad situation for a 40K automobile!
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    I've read where leaking A/C coolant can give you oily smells inside the cabin. Of the odors you are experiencing...can you smell them outside the car as well?
  • fedssocrfedssocr Member Posts: 90
    Have you had the oil changed recently? When I had the oil changed there was a definite "burning oil" smell for several days. But it sounds like your problem is bigger than that. My old Accord used to have a similar problem for a couple of weeks after getting the oil changed.

    The display on my car tells me it's time for the A Service in 30 days. I guess the system must be set to 10,000 miles or 2 years whichever comes first. :-) I think I'm up to about 8700 miles. I will have had the car 2 years at the beginning of February. I don't have the textbook handy, does anyone know off the top of their head what the A service entails?
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    I just came back from a B service from the dealship for my 2001 C320 with 22,200 miles. When I got the car, I found they did not rotate the wheels. When I ask them, they said they do it only when it is needed! I believe they just forgot to do it. The wheel rotation is in the schedule, and the car already has 22200 miles on it. If I do it later in next B service, it will be around 40K miles. Can any friends tell me if this dealer is honest? Is MB that good that doesn't need wheel rotation for so many miles?

    And, also, the free service seems include nothing, except inspections. I think the dealership is waiting us to pay big bucks after the 4yr/50000mile.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    A journalist with a major newspaper wants to talk with consumers who've bought entry-lux cars (e.g. BMW 3, Mercedes c-coupe, Jag X-type, Audi a4, etc) in the last year, ideally buyers who were new to the luxury brands, to talk about how they like their cars and why they bought them. Please respond asap by Wednesday, December 4 to jfallon@edmunds.com with the type of vehicle and approximate amount you paid for it. Thanks!
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    According to the attached post, can I assume the dealership did not rotate the wheels on purpose? And try to hide the reason to it?

    =================================
    #5782 of 5844 First Service by jrct9454 Nov 09, 2002 (06:48 pm)
    If you have waited 10,000 miles to have the tires rotated the first time, you've probably already gone too long. Now they have a "set" to the belts, and you run the risk of vibrations and noise. Could be OK, depending on which tires the car has [Michelins are less prone to these problems than Pirellis or Continentals], or not...

    Just be prepared: make sure the car feels right before driving too far from the dealership. This is also a discussion we've had before, most recently on one of the other C-Class boards. Tires that go much beyond 5k-7.5k miles are at risk for problems if you try to rotate them; this is one reason MB no longer wants to pay for it...BMW has dropped it from their service recommendations altogether, because they know that waiting for the first service is too long.

    I do all our tire rotations myself in the garage at 3000 mile intervals...many tire stores will do it for you for a minimal or even no charge, but make sure they use the correct bolt torque and use a real hand torque wrench, not a gun, to tighten the bolts.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    I don't get the "it's too late to rotate tires". So what do you do? Wait for either the front or back to prematurely wear and replace all? Or just remount them if they do vibrate (this seems to be more cost efficient)? I rotate my own tires at 5K miles... it's amazing how many puncture wounds they get. Almost 40K mi. on my Continentals and they are about 50% worn. At first I was adverse to the Continentals but they have proven to meet my handling needs and are very quiet..
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    I begin to think which is a good idea to spend $40K+: buy the cheapest car in famous brand? or, buy the top one in a not that famous brand?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...and it is if you have waited more than 10k miles, the only reasonable strategy is to let them wear out and replace.

    And yes, if you rotate at 5k miles, you aren't going to see the symptoms I've described. That's precisely the point.

    If you've gone a long time before the first rotation, it doesn't hurt to try a back-front rotation [keeping them rotating in the same direction], but any attempt to move them to the opposite side of the car will be doomed to failure [vibrations and general lumpiness]. Just be prepared for the fact that they may not feel right.

    I don't want to get into a long tutorial about radial tire construction and why it is disfunctional to go a long time between rotations. If you have successfully rotated tires to positions that reverse their direction of travel after, say, 15k miles and have had no problems, I'd like to hear about it. My experience is that you either do it early and often, or forget it. At 22000 miles, forgetting it seems like the best strategy.

    The dealer is not the only one responsible for making sensible decisions about the car's maintenance. I regard their responsibilities these days as mostly maximizing their revenue, and keeping MBUSA out of trouble - nobody is looking out for my interests but me.

    Incidentally, I too have been pleasantly surprised by the behavior of the Continental CH95s on our '02 C240. On previous MBs, I have had to ditch Contis in favor of Michelins early on, usually due to excessive flat-spotting and subsequent vibrations, but these seem much more resistant to that behavior and have been very satisfactory so far. Fingers crossed...
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Here's a method for you to check your oil level to within .1 qt. I have read posts that say it is not accurate but mine has been consistently right on.

    Start with the FSS display on the current mileage/total
    mileage, Insert key and rotate to position 1.

    Push and hold the odometer reset/dash lighting level button
    (left side of cluster) for about 20-40 seconds. You will hear a
    beep.

    The diagnostic screen will come on. You will see a
    bunch of numbers/engine type/etc...oil level will read -.- qts.

    Rotate key to position 2 and you will see the level of the oil
    come on after it measures it.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...but a prime suspect would be a malfunctioning EGR valve or connection. Gasses that should be going back into the crankcase could be venting to the outside air instead. These would indeed "smell oily" and be as obnoxious as described. I would check everything that is supposed to seal the engine, but the first place to start is the Exhaust Gas Recirc system.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Also, since you have a C320, you have the charcoal filter after the dust filter. Does activating the filter change anything? I leave mine on all the time now because when it's off I notice a slight exhaust fume smell....normal smell while driving in my other car but evidently I get used to it. I think jrct 9454 is on the right track if your car is producing the smell.
  • vpkingvpking Member Posts: 6
    On my C320 01'. I have the noise coming from the
    center also. Right under the radio the empty
    compartment that I guess would be used for a CD
    or cassette player. It buzzes. I thought it might
    be loose change in the ashtray but it's not. If I
    put my hand in the compartment and hold it down
    the buzzing stops. The drivers window buzzes also
    up near the top. Other annoying noises are the
    seat belt holders that rattle in the car.
  • ligartligart Member Posts: 109
    I am considering the previous generation C-Class in AMG guise. Honestly, I feel a V8 is overkill and so am leaning to the C36. Other than that, any opinions on this generation of AMG rides? (now that's a loaded question!)
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    If you're looking for a good excuse to buy the newer auto, according to the specs, the standard '03 CLK500 has more hp and torque than the AMG version of the 430 in the older C43, so the C43 isn't really over the top. Plus, anything more than the standard 320 engine in the C-Class is an opulence.

    The C36 might be more of a collector's car as it has the old I6 design that MB's latest generation of V6s made obsolete. The standard 430 engine has been great in our ML and it still is used to power the S-Class for '03. The 430 is in a lot of older CLK's so you probably can get some good feedback about it on that group. The AMG version of it in the C43 apparently had taller cams and some work on the intake runners and exhaust system to boost the engine's power without having to raise the engine's compression
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Listen, sorry to keep on about this automatic vs. manual thing, but could someone with a C320/Autobox humour me on a question please?

    I'm a ways away from another test drive, and am getting itchy about finding out exactly how the - and + selection controls works on the autobox. I've had a look for an online C Class owner's manual but haven't had any luck.

    Ok: I can understand if you're in Drive, the autobox will shift itself, no problem there obviously.

    Question comes up in a few different situations. So say if you're at rest, then the transmission must be pre-selected to 1st gear, right? How can I hold shifts in each gear in turn whilst accelerating? If you're stationary (say at a light), do you select '-' to engage "manual" mode, then each time you want to upshift do you select '+'? And will the gear hold in the selected slot irrespective of RPM?

    Next situation: in town traffic, going 35-45 or so, say in 4th gear, and want to overtake smartly. What happens if you select '-'? Will it downshift to 3rd, or just engage "manual" mode such that the NEXT time you select '-' it will downshift? Or does the downshift occur right away?

    Ok, last situation: approaching a bend in 5th, can you just tap '-' twice and will transmission downshift to 4th and to 3rd allowing you to engine brake, negotiate turn, and then can you then tap '+' twice on exit from the corner into 5th, delaying as long as you like in order to allow more RPM to build? When does the transmission "revert" back to automatic mode such that it shifts itself? When I pull up to a light and stop?

    I'm trying to make a case for which suits my driving style, the 6 speed or the auto. My current car (99 C280) can only shift via the J gate. I'm wondering if the '-' and '+' are in fact just the same thing via sw controls or something fundamentally different...

    thanks all, appreciate any info on how this thing works...rich
  • paul_ppaul_p Member Posts: 271
    Rich,

    "I'm wondering if the '-' and '+' are in fact just the same thing via sw controls or something fundamentally different..."

    As the previous owner of a '95 C220 gate and now '00 C230 with +/-, I've found the +/- to be about the same thing, changing gears when you press the lever left (-) or right (+) respectively. The car will always start from a stop in 1st gear and hold it if you select 1, and otherwise change gears normally until it reaches the highest number you have selected (2, 3, 4 or D).

    There seems to be no "manual vs. automatic mode" to which you allude in your questions. If you leave the car in whatever gear is displayed, it seems to hold that gear until you press + or -.

    I am not as adventurous as some, so as to minimize wear on the transmission. As such, I hope others who have experimented more will post their findings following this message.

    - Paul
This discussion has been closed.