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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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Comments

  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    ctic, your point about economies of scale is well taken. But I still think the C-class sport package was way overpriced, based on comparison to others in the market. For example, the Audi A4 sport package is now up to $1000 (was about $600 a couple years ago, IIRC). That includes different shocks, springs, stabilizer bars, wheels and tires. The BMW 325 sport package is $1400. The BMW package includes everything the A4 package includes, but also adds in sport seats. This is what Mercedes should have done for the C-class sport package -- stiffer suspension, better wheels and tires for about $1000. Leave off the full leather, and the boy-racer fake kevlar interior trim (the kevlar trim could be a free standing option). If they'd done that, they might have sold some of the sport package. Instead, the included things people either did not want (fake kevlar) or didn't want to pay for (full leather), and priced it high enough ($3000) to scare away the customers.
  • kennynmdkennynmd Member Posts: 424
    in an 03 c240? Is it tight with the front seats all the way back?
  • cticctic Member Posts: 291
    Maybe it's still economies of scale. Audi and BMW are more "sports" oriented, maybe they sell thousands of sports packages vs. hundreds for MB. Maybe MB knows that because their $900 sports package on the previous C only sold hundreds and so priced their new sports package at $3K. It's hard to second guess the reason why.
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    If you're going from an Accord, for instance, which is a much lighter car, a 240's feeling is going to suffer by comparison because it so much heavier.

    Passats and BMWs are purposefully geared to launch out in first to make other cars seem like underperformers by comparison, but MB doesn't play that game, so the 240 may not satisfy potential new owner unless they've really done their homework and really know what they want, without any help or aftermarket support from typical auto magazine reviewers.

    Based on my personal observations in reading buyers' reviews, and feeling their enthusiasm and how often they vote with 9s and 10s when assessing their expensive new purchase, I think the C320 provides more satisfaction to new purchasers overall compared to the C240. C230s elicit more appreciative comments from their purchasers by comparison, probably because it draws younger buyers that probably are generally more enthusiastic about everything, but it also is more powerful while being a little lighter.
  • lxgmblxgmb Member Posts: 41
    It worked about 1 month ago. I don't think it freezes. It is 52F now outside. Any ideas?
  • nycanyca Member Posts: 232
    do you hear the pump "humming", trying to pump washer fluid? Or is it silent?
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    There have been reported breaks in the washer reservoir and filler neck causing the fluid to leak out.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    I was suprised to see how low the used C-Class prices are from the Used Vehicle appraiser.

    For example a 2001 C240 with 24K miles, auto and sunroof came out to:

    Trade-in 21770
    Private party 23577
    Retail 25473

    What is Edmunds source of data? Are these values accurate?
  • benton280cbenton280c Member Posts: 2
    greetings, i have been lurking here for about a month looking for info on 280c. my 300e was totaled this summer, and have been looking for a replacement since. it took me quite a while to convince myself that i would be happy in a "C" class car.

    well, the good news is this: i just picked up a beautiful 95 silver/grey 280 that i found thru ebay in st louis. i drove the car home to atlanta over 600 miles, and arrived tired but with a huge smile from the cars performance and ride quality.

    the 280 far exceeded my expectations in all aspects. it rides/drives GREAT! it has 80% MXV4's that are smoother than any of my previous experience. the car was a dream at 85-95 mph. the I-6 engine has plenty of power and the 4-sp shifts flawlessly.

    only a couple of items on my wish lish missing: MOONroof (only steel), heated seats, trunk release on console. i will eventually switch to 16in wheels (and will happily spend the $ for the mxv4 if they continue the present ride quality)

    i got a great deal on the car that was well worth the trip. i spent $8800 drive out. the car is in great condition and beautiful, and in my initial trip, i could not be more pleased with the 280. i was very skeptical on the "C", but this car exceeds my 300e in every way i can think of except size.

    thanks for all of your posts and all the info. i look forward to being an active participant here in the future.

    happy motoring. - benton
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    Well, what did the 2001 C 240 Auto sell for in the fall of 2000 or early 2001? I would think around $32K US or so, right?

    So at a retail price of $25.5 K, that's a loss of a bit less than 1/4 of the car's value over a two year, 24,000 mile period. That's pretty damned low depreciation in my book. Most cars would lose a fair whack more than that, as a percentage, at least.

    I'd say with residual values like that it makes far more sense to buy a new one.

    If you already have a 2001 and are looking to unload it, well, bad luck. But you'd be doing a lot worse with many other types of car. For example, an S 600 would probably have lost $25K+ of its value in the same period... If you're looking at this from the seller's point of view, why would you want to unload a 2 year old car, other than possibly having masochistic tendencies? Of course you'll get hosed.

    I keep my cars for at least 10-15 years, so residual value is not a biggie with me.

    Happy Christmas to all!

    Mike T.
    2002 Mercedes-Benz C 230 K
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
    1989 Peugeot 405 SRI
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Mike,

    So based on your post I should expect to be able to buy a 2001 C320 with sunroof (MSRP $39K) with 24K miles from a private owner for $27K. Cool.
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    I've no idea what it'd be worth....I was just working with the figures that you provided for a 2001 C 240, and making an attempt to analyse that information without verifying it.

    If you want to see real depreciation, check out a Peugeot 607 V6 in the U.K. After three years, it would be worth about only about 29% of its original value. Ouch.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    I pulled the numbers from Edmunds Used Vehicle Appraiser, same as the first example. Which was the point of my first post, that being are these numbers any good? Based on your response I would assume that they are.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Plus or minus a couple of percentage points.

    My usual rule of thumb on MB sedans is something like this: First year depreciation is dealer markup plus holdback plus about 7-10%, or in this case a total of about 17-20% in the first year; second and third years about 10% each; fourth year on about 5%-8% per year.

    This is rough, but for a two year-old car, figure somewhere in the neighborhood or 27-30%. Varies a lot by market, which is where Edmunds' numbers can often be too high or too low.

    Check KBB and NADA as well as Edmunds, average the three, and see what you get. Real close to that 30% figure would be my guess...
  • rtrembickirtrembicki Member Posts: 3
    Picked up a 2003 C320 just seven days ago and have a question for the board.....

    I am having trouble getting the smartkey and memory seats to work properly (at least what seems like it would be intuitively proper). My wife and I have seemed to successfully program our keys and seat to the right memory locations, but when I get in (after she drives it), the seat just doesn't seem to go my memory spot, specifically the seat distance from the pedals. But, if I push my memory button on the door it works. My wife's key however, seems to work fine. Also, the seat and steering wheel move out of the way for her but not for me (just the steering wheel moves for me). I checked the menus and it is set the same for both keys (it is set to move the column+seat for both of us). In looking back on this message board it seems as if there were some problems a while back but not much talk of it lately.

    Is anyone having this problem with '03 model cars? Am I just missing something in my interpretation of the manual? I thought I took the time to do it step-by-step, but it doesn't seem to work just right?

    any thoughts??

    P.S. When she puts her key in the ignition, the seat and wheel start to move toward her memory position, but for me they start to move only after I start the engine.

    Thanks.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    You may want to switch keys with your wife and reprogram them to see if it is the key.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...you may want to visit the dealer on this one. There have been multiple complaints about memory seats and the keys not working together. I think there is a solution out there, and the dealer should be aware. Having a C240 with semi-manual seats, this is not an issue for me personally, but the problem has come up multiple times in MB-oriented forums.
  • drmpdrmp Member Posts: 187
    Can anybody tell the difference between the standard MB seat and multi contour? I am particularly interested on this feature since I need longer and taller thigh support. Please give your comments. Tanks.

    Mark
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Wish I had added it to my car at purchase. Lumbar support is not adjustable in my seats and long trips bother my back. German seats are not known for comfort. The multi contour seat:
    "Features side bolsters, thigh supports and dual lumbar supports that adjust pneumatically for optimal comfort." Most people don't think the option is worth it but if you are fussy about how your seat feels it will probably be worth it.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    My 190E seats were firm but I don't remeber them being comfortable on long trips. The seats in my current A4 are outstandingly comfortable.

    My experience with the new C is that the seats are somewhat uncomfortable in terms of the seat being too hard and too little lumbar support. "Automobiles" 4 seasons test similarly criticized the C320's seat comfort.

    I would like to hear from current owners who have taken long trips in their new model C's regarding seat comfort.
  • rtrembickirtrembicki Member Posts: 3
    To mbnut1:

    Thanks for the hint on the seat question, I tried switching keys and reprogramming the seats and it seems to work ok now.

    Thanks again!
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    My beautiful, shiny Obsidian Black was keyed from front fender to back. The entire driver's side will need to be repainted. (yes, that is a sob you hear). I need to know if anyone has had good experiences with bodyshops in West Los Angeles or vicinity -- South Bay, Valley, Beverly Hills, Westwood -- somewhere I can get to from Brentwood.

    This is my predicament -- My dealer uses Marina Body Shop for their used/new vehicles, which is also on my insurance company's list, but I have heard a few negatives about them. They are the only one on their list in this vicinity. The plus of using an insurance company provider is that the insurance company guarantees the work for as long as I own the car, which will be a long time.

    The color man who does paint repairs and touchups for my dealer and who comes to my house to do same for me is a paint specialist who worked for many years in a bodyshop in another state. He has recommended a shop in Torrance (Continental), which is close to where he lives. He knows my devotion to my 320 and says he will watch over my car and make sure the work is done properly. He will inspect my car before I pick it up -- he knows I need it perfect :) He told me he has sent several MB and Jag owners from my area and all have been happy with the results. This shop uses Glasurit, which I understand is a high-grade German paint. Obsidian, being metallic, is probably more difficult to work with than non-metallic.

    Also recommended by a friend is Lasky Coachworks in WLA.

    I would really appreciate some optimistic advice from those in my area as to (1) Go with the insurance provider Marina Bodyshop also used by my dealer (2) Go with Continental recommended by my trusted color man (3) or Lasky Coachworks.

    My thanks.

    Miki
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Sorry to hear about the vandalism to your car Miki. Thankfully it can be fixed. I would go with Marina....you can't beat a lifetime warranty. There is no body work to be done so what you see is what you get...or reject. Metalic paint is hard to match. If they try to blend paint and are not successful then you can demand whole panels be painted.
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    Thank you so much, Pat. I guess something had to happen sooner or later -- methinks its Murphy's Law.

    Have a wondrous New Year.

    Miki
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    Oh yes! mleskover......'tis ironic that the Obsidian C was built for me to replace the Black 320 because its paint was less than perfect.

    My thanks for your wisdom.

    Wishing you and those you love a great New Year!

    Miki
  • checkmecheckme Member Posts: 73
    I'd strongly advise that you go with the independent shop that does good work. If they do the job properly, you won't need to take advantage of the warranty. The quality of auto paint jobs varies tremendously from shop to shop; the difference should be discernable by the naked eye.

    You might want to stop by both shops to see examples of freshy painted cars. Make sure to see only cars that haven't been covered with any wax or glaze (many paint shops mask imperfect work by using a glaze, such as Race Glaze, to effectively cover up the defects).

    While all fresh paint jobs tend to look good from afar, the differences become noticable up close. Look closely at the paint job; is it smooth and glassy like a mirror, or does it have little ripples in it (the ripples are known as "orange peel" because they look a lot like the surface of an orange)? Are there any sanding marks left over? Do the newly-painted portions of the car, in your case the sides, flow smoothly into the old portions? Or is there somehow a difference between them, even if you can't put your finger on it? Any imperfection, however small, will only get worse over time. The cars may look similar today, but in five years, you'll see a diffrence, believe me.

    I cannot tell you how much I reccommend going with a quality shop over one which offers a lifetime warranty. The "warranty" only provides a false sense of security; sloppy work is still sloppy work. And suppose the "warranty" shop does give you a fresh paint job in five years (you should not need one, but suppose they do)? Odds are you'll just get another sloppy paint job! Put another way, Hyundai offers a 10-year warranty. The XG350 is about the same size as the C-Class, and may be a little bigger. It offers many of the luxury features that the C-Class offers, has a longer warranty, and costs a whole lot less. You didn't buy one, though, becuase quality is important!
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    Well, checkme, you gave me a lot of food for thought, along with good advice. After much soul-searching, I decided not to go with the provider on the insurance company's list, because I checked them out and heard only negatives about them. I have also decided not to use the body shop recommended by my trusted color man because it is simply too far and a hassle to get there. I am going to the very highly recommended Lasky Coachworks -- 10 minutes away......so, if I find any orange peel or flaws, I am close enough to take a run over there. Their clientele list shows me they are worthy enough to work on my C320, and their facility is very impressive. http://www.laskycoachworks.com/

    Most of the body shops I have seen are very crowded, crazy and hectic -- I dreaded going to them and hated leaving my car with them. This one is just the opposite. The owners are local and car collectors.


    Thanks for your advice.


    Miki

  • checkmecheckme Member Posts: 73
    Great! You won't regret it. Just wait a few years- your C-Class will look a whole lot better than most others.
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    checkme -- I sure do hope so, because I am very particular about the care given to my car. The car will probably go in the shop on Monday, and I will let everyone know if I am :-) or :'-( with the outcome.

    Miki
  • newmbfannewmbfan Member Posts: 59
    The seat will not move back if less than some percentage of travel is available. (50% I think)

    I had the same issue until my Salesman pointed this out. I have since turned off the seat retraction feature for my key to save a little wear and tear on the seat motor.
  • newmbfannewmbfan Member Posts: 59
    I should qualify as an expert on this issue. I have just returned from a 2500 mile trip from Raleigh NC to central Wisconsin and than return via Dubueque IA. 1150 miles the first day 17.5 hours of seat time. 1030 miles on the last day in 15.5 hours.

    While I got somewhat saddlesore, it really was not all that bad. I have a chronic bad back and did not expeirence any back pains at all.

    I did try and adjust the seat to a new position every couple of hours and that really seemed to help.

    25.5 MPG overall and average speed of 67 MPH.

    This is our second C (2001 C240 and now a 2002 C320 Sportwagon) and it has been great overall. My wife is the primary driver and she loves the rock solid feel of the car.

    Miki----Sorry about your car. It was probably one of those lowlife Kings fans!!!
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    I hope the ordeal is minimal and the results are to your satisfaction. It's a crap shoot no matter where you go unless you have a prior relationship...
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well a many here have talking about the C-Class Sport models not being offered anymore, well Mercedes just re-introduced them. There is a new C230 Sport Sedan and a new C320 Coupe (hatchback):


    http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cfm?NewsID=2030103.003


    M

  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    >>Miki----Sorry about your car. It was probably one of those lowlife Kings fans!!!

    Come to think of it.......I was wearing my purple and gold leather Lakers jacket that night!!! Thank you for your sympathy :)...the Kings sure are playing good basketball, though, aren't they!!!

    Miki
  • michhalamichhala Member Posts: 375
    >>I hope the ordeal is minimal and the results are to your satisfaction. It's a crap shoot no matter where you go unless you have a prior relationship...

    Thank you so much, kind sir. I am working on the relationship as we speak! :)

    Miki
  • paul_ppaul_p Member Posts: 271
    Hi Miki,

    Sorry to hear about your car! Hope the shop you are going to does a perfect job for you, and you will never be able to tell the difference when they are done. I look forward to hearing about your experience.

    Hope the new year holds better luck for all of us. Enjoy sunny southern Cal. - it snowed here again in Boston today (at least my C230 is off the road until mid-March). Take care!

    - Paul
  • mbgambga Member Posts: 11
    I've had my C a year, but only recently took a somewhat long (1000 miles over three days) trip in it: very happy with the seats! They have always struck me as firm, but comfortable. I think this is ideal.

    On the same trip I drove my father's '98 town car for a few hundred miles. Big difference. Of course the seats are plush, but too much so. And forget about the drive feel. It has a switch to adjust the steering feel from low to high. It was on high, so based on the ride I thought it meant "high assist", but switching to low told me it was high feel.

    Anyway, I think the seats are well formed and provide support, but those needing additional low back support should get the adjustable lumbar.
  • tclawtclaw Member Posts: 23
    Many of you seem to know a great deal about what makes these C-Class cars tick. Well, the tail lights, both sides, just stopped working on my '01 C-320, and I'd rather not put up with the hassle of leaving the car at the dealer. Any suggestions about what could be the problem? The brake lights do work. There's no malfunction message on the dash display. If it were a fuse, would there be other outages?
  • 404c404c Member Posts: 146
    The first obvious step, that you alluded to, is to check the fuses in the trunk area (I assume the sedan has them there too - the Sportcoupé does). The second thing is to check the bulbs themselves (highly unlikely these are the problem). The C is supposed to have automatic lamp substitution, so that if a bulb fails, another illuminates in its place. Clearly that function is not working either, which is cause for major concern. That your dash display did not indicate a problem is another indication of major electrical trouble. I'm afraid that you'll have to have the dealer sort this out. Even if a fuse is blown and the new one holds, I'd wonder why it blew in the first place. Blowing a fuse is never normal. They are there only to prevent shorts from causing fires.

    I have to say that the last time I saw a car driving with no taillights was in the 1970s, a Vauxhall Firenza. Those things had evil electrical systems. It sounds as though the C Class is also occasionally host to the ghost of Lucas ;-)
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    404c - Aha, another person who's worshiped at the Shrine of Light...where the wires carry smoke and all bullet connectors work for the life of the car...:)

    All kidding aside, actually I'd just get a couple bulbs and bung them in. My older C blew two bulbs in rapid succession in the rear so I would certainly check the (quick) cheap answer first rather than heading down to the dealer.

    Interestingly the bulbs were actually cheapest at the dealership by like 50c, which surprised the heck out of me...

    Let us know what happens, eh?

    good luck...rj
  • richjenkinsrichjenkins Member Posts: 55
    Merc1 - thanks for the interesting link to the info re: sport version of C.

    I found the references pretty much aligned the equipment mentioned with the '02 brochure description of the Sport Package.

    The MB usa site has not been updated (when I checked) however; still no sport package to click on.

    Also found it interesting that the author of article mentioned that the cost of the C320 with sport package was 35,200, which is curiously the MSRP of the current C class 320 sedan???

    Any posters in LA who can provide more info from the show?
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    I had intermittent problems with the rear bulbs and replacing a left rear light assembly (whole thing, due to a resistance variation between two points) solved the problems. I had a right rear brake lamp burn out and replacing the bulb fixed the problem and error code. I had a light in the trunk go out and they replaced a circuit board to fix it. By reducing wires and weight MB increased complexity for troubleshooting seamingly simple problems...not complaining, just stating a fact.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Any guess whether a non sport version of the C230K sedan will be available (at an even cheaper price I hope)?
  • checkmecheckme Member Posts: 73
    I was at the LA show yesterday. They had a C230 Sedan at the show. The base price is $27,500, which includes leather seats. It looked good- it's a normal C-Class sedan with the 4-cyl C230 Kompressor engine.

    We sat in the E-Class, too. This was very interesting. The E-Class is actually not that much bigger inside (the difference is very, very slight) than the C-Class, but it's much, much nicer. It's fantastic, actually. I had always thought that the E-Class was considerably larger inside than the C, but it isn't. The E-Class is both luxurious and futuristic at the same time. If I needed a bigger car than the C, I'd get the S-Class, though.

    The C230 coupe is quite nice. The rear seat isn't as big as that in the C-Class sedan, obviously, but it's not bad, considering the small size of the car.

    If the Z4 is any indicaton of things to come from BMW, I see nothing but blue skies ahead for Mercedes. What an eyesore! I actually like the new look of the 7-series- it has a very agressive stance- but the Z-4 is terrible. The X5 was beautiful but is essentially a car- there is very little room inside.

    The SL convertible was beautiful. The SLK is desperately in need of restyling. I didn't care for the new CLK's; they looked kind of like Camry Solaras, at least at the show. The G-Class has a ton of room inside; I liked it.
  • husky11husky11 Member Posts: 53
    Has anyone here had an FSS sensor go out? I have a 1999 C280. In December 2002 I had a reading of 3,100 miles (to go) before my next FSS service (for the "A" service). It dropped to a mere 8 miles suddenly - after driving only an additional 250 miles.

    Is this something that will automatically be corrected when I get my car serviced? It's irritating to see such a low (now a minus 18 miles) mileage on the FSS when I know that it should read at least 2900 miles to go for the FSS "A" service. Thanks for any input on this issue.I plan to have the "A" service in a week or so - after only 7,800 miles from the last service. Meanwhile I am driving our '93 Toyota, which has never had a problem in 9-1/2 years, pending service on the C280.
  • mleskovarmleskovar Member Posts: 171
    Interesting about your perceptions checkme on the E vs. C size. I am thinking of getting an E500 so I checked the size differences of the E from the C:
    %
    length....+5.1
    width.....+4.9
    height....+3.4
    fr head....-3.9 (!)
    r head....+1.0
    fr leg......+.5
    r leg.......+7.9
    fr should.+6.2
    r should..+3.3
    cabin......+13.7
    trunk.......+30.2 (!)

    Only a few inches here and there but adds up to +13.7% increase in cabin volume. By comparison though...the S has 22.8% more cabin volume than the C.
  • checkmecheckme Member Posts: 73
    It didn't seem much bigger at all. The rear legroom, in particular, hardly seemed any different.
  • mac320mac320 Member Posts: 147
    It's only an inch longer in the wheelbase than the old E but an investment of over $3B is said to have gone into the design of the new E and aluminum fenders and hood replace the steel to keep the weight down to about that of a C-class despite changes to the car that gave in the highest rating in the more stringent Euro crash tests.
  • cticctic Member Posts: 291
    Hello there fine friend:

    The FSS may not be broken. It determines the mileage based on sampling the oil. Maybe you drove the car very hard during those 250 miles and the oil became very dirty, hence the new reading. ctic
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