Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Willy,
Not sure if you are still checking the board, but I was wondering what was the status of your C230. I found our at the end of Feb that my production date was moved back to March 20.:( So, I will not see my car until 3 1/2 weeks after that. I was bummed to hear that, but, I guess good things come to those who wait. I am expecting my car around April 10th. What's up with yours? If you tell me you already have and you're driving it today, I might be sick!!!

But, if you do, I would love to hear how it's going.
Tony

robtroxel · March 2003

I have a very troublesome 01 320. (20 dealer visits) It's been in for most everything discussed in these boards. I will say that when it's not in the shop it performs very well in acceleration. Actually the 01s are noticeably quicker because of the rear end ratio which was changed on the 02s to taller gears for economy and noise improvement. It's about 3 to 4 car lenghs to 60 or .4 sec. I've emerged from toll boths next to 260 hp G-35s and have actually stayed even or slightly ahead to 85 mph at which point I stop the contest. Makes me wonder about the rated hp of these car verses what I see in the real world. At any rate my 01 is departing this summer as I go back to a boring efficent and reliable Japenese car. Regards to all

merc1 · March 2003

I think it's a simple case of the Japanese over-estimating and the Germans giving a geniune, slightly conservative rating. A lot of Nissan's cars aren't as quick as their HP ratings would indicate. I'm shocked that the G35 Coupe (280hp) is no faster than the 225 hp 330Ci.

M

wc68 · March 2003

Tony,
Well my car is built already got the vin #. It takes only one day to build. I should get my car in about 6 weeks. Why did your car get pushed back on production? The wait is killing me. By the way what color did you get? I saw a C230 sport sedan in black opal and it was beautiful, I hope Pewter looks just as good. Let me know any updates on your car!!!

mac320 · March 2003

It would be interesting to overlay the torque curves . . . that info is available for the 320 engine but not the others. To explain the real differences in power, MB's 320 probably has more torque than the G35's engine can develop in the 2.5-3.5k rpm range. Seems surprising given the Nissan motor's larger displacement: 0.2L larger.

Perhaps Nissan's motor is tuned for regular gas but it probably takes premium as the compression is pretty high at 10.3, especially compared to the 320's 10.0. The Nissan motor has a shorter stroke so it probably would require higher reves to achieve the same torque. An interesting comparison would be a C350, using MB's latest 3.7L engine that powers base model MLs: it also is just 0.2L larger than Nissan's 350 (about the same bore but with the 320's stroke) and puts out a torque amount at 3K rpm that requires about 4.8K in the Nissan motor.

As for the 320 versus the 330i (which is a 3L engine), the 320 develops a higher torque than the 330i motor, beginning at a lower rpm, and over a wider range, and at a lower compression. The 330i motor still may develop more torque in a more usable rpm range than Nissan's motor which also would explain the real world driving experience versus what you'd expect by simply comparing peak hp and torque ratings.

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Willy,
I got a call this past Saturday from my dealer and my car has been produced! It's currently at the dock in Germany waiting to get assigned to a boat. When it is assigned, I should see the car in three weeks. He did give me the VIN as well. Now I am really excited! I'm counting down the days. To answer your question, my car is white with the charcoal interior. I have yet to see a white sport sedan, only Pewter (which does look awesome), silver & black. I loved the silver, but my last two cars have been that color.

By the way, has anyone else seen the new C230 commercial. The one where the guy in the black 230 is being chased by motorcycles, black helicopters, etc. . .AWESOME!! The 180 he pulls on the bridge is just cool. . . .I know, I need help!

hansen · March 2003

I own a 2002 c320 sedan and I truly love the car. When I went car shopping, the first place that I visited was my Infiniti dealer to see the G35. Based on the numbers, I was so sure that I was going to buy that car. I remember getting into the drivers seat, trying to ignore the cheap looking interior, and I took that car with the dealer next to me up to a canyon road and punched the accelerator. I was so sure that I was going to go into"warp speed". What a disappointment!!!!!! (As I got over my unfulfilling test drive, the dealer made it a point over and over again that he could not come down from MSRP) I tried a few other cars and loved the c320 and bought it two days later. The c320 felt just as fast with better handling and smoother ride.

When I mentioned this on the G35 message board - that I felt the acceleration was not as sizzling as the numbers would have you believe, I got a fair number of hostile responses. I wasn't being malicious or mocking, but I was genuinely surprised at how hostile everyone became. I am glad to see that I am not the only one who chose not to believe the very decieving numbers.

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Hansen,
Congrats on your purchase of your 02 C320. I'm happy to hear that you saw the light on your purchase, and did not become clouded by those touchy Nissan, er, Infiniti dealers/owners. I, too, checked out the G35 sedan and was not impressed. The power did not seem as overwhelming as the numbers would have indicated and you mentioned the often criticized interior, but I feel as though the exterior (especially the rear end) will not age well either. And taking into account the fact that the Infiniti's don't hold their value nearly as well as your Benz will, you made a very smart decision.

Stay away from those Niss/Infi boards!:)

robtroxel · March 2003

I appreciated all of your comments and must agree about the G-35 sedan interior and rear end style. I went to drive one and didn't bother to leave the lot for the test drive after a quick appraisal of the interior.

I took delivery of a loaded C320 in Nov 2000 which has been a very poor example of quality control. As they say, it costs to be first having paid full list, but I wouldn't mind that if the problems were not there. Its good to see that the later cars are looking a lot better in the quality dept.

Finally I saw a 320 at the dealer that have been rear ended at 50 mph and you would be impressed with how the passenger compartment stayed intact with the front doors still operable. I understand that the driver walked away with a stiff back and a keen appreciation for the solid body that gave in all the right places to protect passengers. In the end maybe this is what its all about.

ahost · March 2003

I posted a question some time ago about the car not rolling backwards on a hill when in D. Now I found out why. The transmission had accidentially been put to W mode, and it seems that when the car is in W mode, it cannot role backwards. That's maybe a useful trick: when you stop on a steep hill, put the transmission in W, then it won't role backwards when moving the foot from brake to accellerator. I guess it doesn't harm the transmission?

valon · March 2003

Hi all of you
first i did see the new commercial tonight and is nice specially the babe in a white one heheh.
Now I have huge dilemma as most of you know I did put a order for a new c 230 sport few weeks ago and total was $31400 including tax and all diler charges my car should be here in 6 weeks as of tonight, but tonight i received a call from dillership and they have one coming in 7 days with all my options that i requested c-2,c-4 bose system with changer manual but has heated sets too and they asking me extra $600 for the option ,what to do, wait and save or take the one that is arriving next week has the colors too that i want.
any suggestions what to do ...
thank you all

mmoskoitz · March 2003

Way back in March 2001 I bought my Black C240 with memory seats and an automatic from West Chester Mercedes in Pennsylvania. The dealer gave me the heated seats/headlamp washer package for free if I would buy an in stock model, on the last day of the month without a sunroof. I would wait until the last day of the month before responding to their offer. The closer we come to war and the end of the month the more the sales manager will want to make the deal. And be sure to ask for a Mercedes baseball cap and some other nice accessory from Mercedes catalog like the $55 men's oxford shirt

http://www.thecollection.mbusa.com/Accessories/catalog/Product.jh- tml?PRODID=1379&CATID=321&clearAttribute=true

or a nice time piece like the Kompressor watch

http://www.thecollection.mbusa.com/Accessories/catalog/Product.jh- tml?PRODID=1532&CATID=329&clearAttribute=true

My dealership gave us a basball cap, a "New-C" t-shirt and a $100 gift certificate to an excellent restaurant.

Regards, Michael

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

TAKE THE ONE THAT IS COMING IN A WEEK!!!

Okay, now that I've got that out, the bun warmers are a pretty good option to have anyway. It's kinda nice to fill up as many of those switches on the dash as you can; otherwise you've got a couple of blank, dead buttons. Alright, maybe that's not a great reason, but $600, what's $600 bucks in the light of over $31,000!!! Plus, when you do sell the car many years from now, most people expect heated seats in any luxury car.

Okay, forget all that I've just said, I'm just impatient!:) And if that opportunity presented itself to me, I'd jump on it.

Good luck with your decision & if you do get it, please fill us in on your initial ownership experience.

wc68 · March 2003

Buy it! The heated seats are worth it. If it has everything you want and then some get it. $600 is not much more. Let us know how you like it! My car should be here in a month!

robtroxel · March 2003

Its the best 600 quid you'll ever spend! So says my wife.

valon · March 2003

Well people after thinking all night long went back too the diler today and... i agreed for the one with the heated seats, before i even told him that he offered me 200$ discount on the seats so it did work just fine,car is in baltimore dock so i should get the car next wed or fri, cause thur the guy is off. I will update when i drive out of dillership if is Friday don't expect me back in bord till Sunday night

cira · March 2003

This may have been discussed, but I am wondering if anyone has compared the 2.3L 2002 engine in the c230 to the 1.8L 2003 engine. I have not driven the 03 yet and am wondering what everyone's opinion is on the difference between the 2.3 and the 1.8 engines with an automatic transmission. Is the torque difference noticeable? Is the 1.8 less noisy and does it produce less vibration? Does anyone know if there have been any service bulletins on the 1.8? As a new engine, have any problems been identified? Those of you who have it, has the new technology given you any problems?

mmoskoitz · March 2003

I would still hit the dealership up for some Mercedes goodies.

Regards, Michael

jeanne14 · March 2003

Hello all you MB enthusiasts! I am waiting for my C320 to arrive in a couple of weeks and I recently read the review in Consumer Reports of this car. They really panned it for reliability (after recommending it last year!). Before I purchased I looked at the BMW 3 and it was far too cramped and from what I've heard, not very reliable also. If the C is not reliable I will lease instead of buy it. What experiences has everyone had? Would you buy this car again?

mleskovar · March 2003

After two years and 44K miles our C320 continues to be reliable. Six problems were solved in 9 service visits (crooked steering wheel, slight drift to right, burned out bulbs, intermittent front passenger seatbelt failing to extend, noise in rear brakes, noise in motor [purge valve]). I saved the minor problems for the scheduled/FSS service. Yes, I would buy another C. This car drives great and is sufficiently luxurious.

mac320 · March 2003

16.5K and zero problems. We love it. Service is great which is great for the FSS vistits up to 50K--even a MB loaner is provided.

I don't think much of CR anymore. I saw the issue you read and the column for our '02 C320 was all red bubbles. But, they gave it black dot.

CR says the 5-series is the best car they've ever tested. Annual 5-series sales up to March for '03 were more that 11% lower than the prior year through March '02, and 3-series which are about half of the unit's sold for the mfg stalled 3 mos ago. The C's sales are still rising and the new E-class has got to be the finest sports sedan in its class, and its sales are rising too, so I think most consumers really don't pay CR much attention anymore.

Personally, I think the reporting by the various "powers" are influenced in some way by some non-public backroom relationships that still leaves them free to feel like they're not a complete bunch of liars when they pretend their opinions are strictly impartial.

Even the way supposedly impartial tests like the way the insurance institute runs cars into walls and poles can be interpreted in some interesting ways to get a funny result that it seems they want to arrive at.

jeanne14 · March 2003

Thanks for your input on this car. I agree with the CR analysis. This year's issue seems especially out of whack since there are hardly ANY cars that are reliable except the Lexus, Toyota lines. Happy motoring!

linard · March 2003

I just drove the new 1.8 engine and found it wonderful. It was very smooth and refined and provided some excellent pick up even with three adults in the car. I found the engine noise near the redline much more bearable and even exciting versus the older 2.3, which was almost bucolic. The torque seemed very well distributed with no noticeable flat spots. The auto continues to impress with its smoothness and intuitiveness.

nedzel · March 2003

We've got about 15k on my wife's C240. At around 5k miles, the CEL came on. We got it in the next day and they diagnosed it as a dead engine computer. They replaced the computer that day. No other problems since then. YMMV.

jrct9454 · March 2003

What model year is your C240? Do you know its manufacture month/year [should be on the tag attached to the driver's door jamb]?

Ours is an '02 model that was made in Bremen in January '02; we took delivery [new] in Sept of '02, and now have about 3500 miles on it. The only real problem that has developed so far was a leak in the differential, which was diagnosed as a plugged vent tube. (It was delivered with a wheel alignment problem [drifting to the right], but we knew about that at delivery and it was remedied within the first couple of weeks.)

hansen · March 2003

I love reading about cars and consider myself a car buff, but I am becoming more and more confused about who these magazines get to evaluate cars.

Consumer report is the perfect example. The C class was given a wonderful review, but then they started complaining about the "overly complicated controls." Give me a break-If you have the means to buy the car, you probably have the intelligence to figure it out fairly quickly. The reliability is another issue. The little dots do not correspond at all to what they are saying about the car's reliability. I own both a C320 and an ML320 and, based on Consumer Reports,you'd think they would have both erupted into flames within moments after driving off the dealer's lot. The majority of owners that I have encountered like the cars and have had no serious problems at all.

My other issue is that these magazines forget why we buy cars. After the first mile, you really don't need to feel every bump in the road. A slightly cushioned ride is probably a really good idea if you plan to drive from LA to San Francisco. I would also assume most people don't drive slalom-type roads to get to work.

Mercedes seems to "get it" and knows what the consumer wants. That's why they can sell cars so well even in a bad economy.

ahost · March 2003

We had a 01 C320. It had so many problems that we threatened MB with a lemon lawsuit. They agreed to trade it in for a 03 C320, in a reasonable, though not great, deal. Our '03 C320 has been much more reliable, although not 100% problem free. The driver's seat squeeaked, but it evetually disappeared by itself. Right now we have a rattle somewhere in the front left, but we have not been able to pinpoint it exactly. Acceptable I would say. We would probably buy again, but not a first year model, and without the (maybe unrealistic) expectation of a perfect car.

robtroxel · March 2003

ahost,

Could you tell me what you did and the deal you got. I have a 2001 320 delivered in Nov 2000 that has been in 24 times since new. email me at robtroxel@earthlink.net if you have a moment.

thanks!

nedzel · March 2003

Ours is a 2002. IIRC, we took delivery around October 1, 2001, so build date would have been around August 2001, I suspect.

One of the things that may have helped us is that our C240 has relatively few options. We don't have the memory seats so we missed out on the whole key/seat/memory snafu that took MB a while to figure out. We also don't have a sunroof nor Command.

jrct9454 · March 2003

I would have loved to get a car without the sunroof - but we were taking advantage of the year-end dealer incentives [we got the car for $30,000; MSRP was $34,500], so were limited with colors and options. That said, ours was relatively simple - only the C2 package and automatic - so we too have avoided a lot of the electronic gremlins that have plagued so many owners of the early cars.

We had originally ordered a no-roof custom build in early '00, and would have taken delivery of one of the first W203 cars built for the US. We cancelled that order, in retrospect a good decision. We wound up paying less some two years later, for a car with at least 18 months more of factory experience before it was built.

richjenkins · March 2003

Am off to test drive C230K/6 speed tomorrow...will post impressions soon!

rich

pat · March 2003

Join us tonight, 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for another
round of automotive trivia and member-to-member chat.
Test your skills (or multiple choice guessing ability)
against other Town Hall members.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

Hope to see you there!

valon · March 2003

today my car got here and diler call to let me know, went there to check the car and finalize paper work i was hopping to drive out of the diler sometime friday but i don't think is happing cause i did my own financing (even the guy from f&i wanted me to use there financial institution) better rate, now I have to wait till they have the founds in before they can realise the car. I did test drive the car and i have no complains yet, in the end i like everyone to know that total for the car i payed was $250 over invoice price plus tax .
car has c2,c4 heated seats and cd
i will post my first impressions as a owner after i drive from the diler

wc68 · March 2003

Did you have to pay an advertising fee? I ordered my C230 Sport Sedan for $500 over invoice but there is an advertising fee of $400 which I think is pure profit to the dealer. Congrats on the new car!!!

jdisan · March 2003

Hey all, thought this would be helpful about how to decode your VIN for those of us who ordered or will be ordering cars.

1st character- Identifies the country in which the vehicle was manufactured.
For example: U.S.A.(1or4), Canada(2), Mexico(3), Japan(J), Korea(K), England(S), Germany(W), Italy(Z)

2nd character- Identifies the manufacturer. For example; Audi(A),
BMW(B), Buick(4), Cadillac(6), Chevrolet(1), Chrysler(C), Dodge(B),
Ford(F), GM Canada(7), General Motors(G), Honda(H), Jaquar(A), Lincoln(L), Mercedes Benz(D), Mercury(M), Nissan(N), Oldsmobile(3), Pontiac(2or5), Plymouth(P), Saturn(8), Toyota(T), VW(V), Volvo(V).

3rd character- Identifies vehicle type or manufacturing division.

4th to 8th characters- Identifies vehicle features such as body style, engine type, model, series, etc.

9th character- Identifies VIN accuracy as check digit.

10th character- Identifies the model year. For example: 1988(J), 1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S), 1996(T),
1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3)

11th character- Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle.

12th to 17th characters- Identifies the sequence of the vehicle for production
as it rolled of the manufacturers assembly line.

-----

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Rich,
Good to hear that you test drove the vehicle this morning. Can't wait to hear your impressions! I'll be checking the board tonight.

Valon,
That is one incredible price you got on your car. I was only able to get $1000 off MSRP; which is still about $1200 over invoice; and even that was a hard deal to pull off. Great haggling and keep us informed of your initial ownership experience.

jdisan,
Great post about the VIN. I checked it with mine and was able to determine that it was definitely built in Germany. . .cool stuff; thanks for the info.

gnopras · March 2003

Can somebody help me find cd changer for 99 C280

valon · March 2003

no i didn't have too pay for advertising fee,but i ordered the car in feb so maybe was still new model and diler wanted to start selling them, i know for a fact that few weeks ago someone ordered the same car and got hard time to even get few $$ less than msrp, car is hot buy now and dilers around are aware of that

jdisan · March 2003

...i was able to get about $600 over invoice. But it was not easy.

tomjava · March 2003

Alpine makes cd charger for your car. You might find it at regular car stereo stores.

nedzel · March 2003

I think ours was just C3, C4. We did order it. If we'd tried to buy off the lot, no doubt the car would have had a sunroof on it. We felt it was unnecessary and didn't want to pay for it.

jcat707 · March 2003

Today, while driving along, I saw a silver C240 with wheel covers and black door handles. I have never seen a C-Class made like that. I was just wondering if anyone else has seen one. Is it a custom build or something?

mbnut1 · March 2003

that is a classic model it is the base car in Canada. The US car base is an elegance which is a upgrade from the classic

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Is that test drive over yet?. . . .I know you're thorough, but. . . .:) My C230K is arriving in Baltimore on Friday. I should have the car by the middle of next week. The wait is ALMOST OVER!!

wc68 · March 2003

Hey Tony were you able to track your car on the web? Was there a reason why you didn't order the C1 package (power seats)? I have no idea where my car is now!

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

I have not tried to track my car on the web. My dealer has been informing me every week as to where my car is and when it will get here. It was produced on 3/7 and shipped out on 3/14. It is going to arrive, according to his computer, on Friday, 3/28. He said it takes less than a week to get the car prepped, flat bedded to Richmond, VA, and ready for delivery.

The reason I did not opt for the C1 package was I am of the school of thought that once I set where my seat is most comfortable for me (and I am basically the only driver of the car), I never use the power/memory seat. I currently have power/memory seats in my Jetta, and after I set the memory three years ago, I never used that button again. Also, since it already comes with 4 way power seats and I only have to set the for and aft position manually, I just didn't see the need. Just my opinion, of course.

So, no word on your car, huh? When is your dealer saying that you will actually take delivery of the car?

wc68 · March 2003

My dealer says its on a boat but can't give me a definite date of arrival, the car was built on 2/27/03. I was having second thoughts about not getting the C1 option but figured I could use the money elsewhere and once you set your seat you really don't need to change it. If you have the Vin # to your car try this website to see if you can track your car, others have said it works but I can't find my car. www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/Toolbox/Appl/CargoTracking/index.jsp Let me know if it works! Willy

jettaglxvr6 · March 2003

Now that was cool!! I checked it out and it showed that my car was received at the terminal in Bremerhaven on 3/15, loaded onto the vessel on 3/16 and is set to arrive in Baltimore on 3/28.

Thanks for the website, the anticipation is killing me!!! It doesn't make sense why your VIN did not work. I would double check it with your dealer. Thanks AGAIN!

nyccarguy · March 2003

About 2 years ago, I had the opportunnity to drive a C230K Sports Coupe (Automatic) and a C240 (Automatic, No Sport Suspension). I was very impressed with the rigidity of the chassis on the C240, but thought the car was underpowered for my tastes. I liked the C Coupe, especially the Supercharged engine. I immediately started to play frankenstein in my head and said that MB should offer the Supercharged I4 with the sedan body style. Well, 2+ years later my daydream has become a reality. I was excited to read that the C230K Sports Sedan is a reality (and priced very competitvely). I love the 17" wheels. I look forward to reading your driving impressions and ownership experiences. I'm sure that since the C has been out for 2 years that MB has worked out all of the electrical, transmission, and interior fit & finish bugs that I've heard about 1st hand from some friends of mine who bought the first round of C240s & C320s.

Truth be told, I've always been a big fan of Mercedes. Even now, I think that they pen some of the most beautiful cars on the road. Some of the issues that my friends have had in the last few years with their new M, S, & C class cars have definitely skewed my thoughts away from Stuttgart and towards Munich (I'm not saying BMWs are perfect, and no I don't want a Lexus ES300). BMWs chassis dynamics are remarkable. I like the styling of their cars, but Mercedes are still more beautiful.

When I'm in the market for an entry-level sports sedan, I'll deinitely check out the C230K Sports Sedan (Black/Black 6-speed). For now I plan on enjoying flying onto and off of highways as well as the twisties in my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH.

valon · March 2003

im taking the car today afternoon from the diler finally, i will update post after that, i just hope with good news for the performance of the car .

Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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