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Your dealer sounds a bit sketchy. Is there another one in your area you could consult?
With new pads, I would have expected this problem to go away.
In 1996, the DIN sized LCD panel of ACC was added, and drivelines remained the same, though the dreaded main engine wiring harness was updated making 1996- cars more desirable.
In 1997, the engine in the four cylinder was enlarged slightly, and the five speed automatic (722.6 electronic unit) became standard model line wide. Torque went up a bit and peak power came down the rev range slightly. 1997 brought different headlamps with the highbeams in the middle and fogs under the low beams.
In 1998, the drivelines were the same for the four banger, but the M104 2.8L DOHC inline six was gone, and the M112 2.8L V-6 was added to the C280. The interior was freshened, mostly with new door panels. Side airbags were added to all C-Class cars. BAS (Brake Assist) was also added for 1998, and ESP became optional for the C280. Xenon lights were also optional on the C280, though VERY expensive. The exterior saw new front valance, slightly revised grille, new rocker panel extensions, and new rear valance. All were now body coloured. 1998 also saw the introduction of the SmartKey anti-theft and keyless remote system, and the "smart-start" system with drive-by-wire for both the C230 and C280. For 1998, the standard tire size increased from 195/65-15 (no 14" wheels on a Benz since about 1984) to 205/60-15. (All this is US, different in Canada) FSS was added in 1998, with the "light" system installed in the C230 and the "full" system in the C280.
1999 had the M111.974 engine gone, replaced with the M111.975 "Kompressor" engine, sporting 185hp and an Eaton M62 Supercharger. The interior and exterior were unchanged except the ACC system was replaced with dual zone manual HVAC control system with rotary dials.
1999 and 2000 C230 and C280 cars didn't change much.
The most desirable W202 cars are the 1996- cars since the wiring harnesses are not "biodegradable" and failure prone. The 1997 cars suffer from some tranmission problems thanks to it being the intro year for the 722.6, and this also effects 1998 cars, though not as bad. 06/98 (1999MY production) brought updates to the 722.6. If you're shopping a 1997 or 1998 and the tranny has been replaced, that is a good thing, since the new unit is much improved.
The W202 has very few issues. On OBD-II cars with "ME" injection systems, the Air Mass Meter is failure prone, though this is not unusual for any OBD-II car regardless of make. The evaporator temp sensor can fail, disabling the AC system. That's a <$100 repair. All the W202 cars have front lower ball joints that can wear when the car is used on bad roads, and I understand fitting huge wheels to non-AMG cars has the same effect, but I have no evidence of that being true other than my own experience (my C230 runs 17x8's with 225/45-17).
Some W202 cars have final drive seals that sweat, though few ever really leak.
One big issue with 1998- W202 C280's is the failure prone harmonic balancer. It can break and cause THOUSANDS of dollars of collateral damage. If you're buying one, find out if it's been updated, if not, budget $400 or so. It MUST be done. This is true of ALL M112 and M113 engines.
As to brake noise, the W202 cars have noisy brakes, especially in the rear. They make lots of pad dust, and this leads to noise. Ignore it. Typical MB.
My 1998 C230 has 155,000km's on the odo now, and has had the tranny updated. Other than that, the car has been flawless. The dealer did an early oil change where they severly overfilled the crankcase and wrecked both main crank seals. Replaced at no charge. The engine is tight and strong, has never used a drop of oil, and basically runs like the day I took delivery in the fall of 1997.
My "pick of the litter list"
1. 1996 C220. Excellent used car buy. Cheap, reliable, and no major issues. Reliable four speed hydraulic tranny, no head gasket issues (like M104 94-97 C280's) and basically solid all around. 1996 was also the year the variable pressure AC system was used, and it's very reliable.
2. 1998 C230 with "new" tranny. The "new" body, Smart-Key, side bags, etc and the super reliable M111.974 engine. Terrific fuel economy and really low operating costs.
3. 1999-2000 C230. Few tranny issues, same features as the 1998 C230, but the potential issue of the Eaton M62 Supercharger. Also, some people find the NVH characteristics of the M111.975 driveline unpleasant. Probably should be a tie between the 1998 C230 and the 1999-2000 C230.
4. 1998-2000 C280. The M112 is a great engine with no head gasket issues, but the engine bay is crowded for DIY guys like me. Also, the harmonic balancer has been redesigned MANY times and I'd still be leery of that issue as MB is NOT standing behind the problem.
5. 1994-1997 C280 and 1994-1995 C220 cars. The 94-97 C280 cars have the dreaded head gasket problems, which some think is solved by an updated gasket, but I'm not convinced after talking to many owners on their second or third gasket. All the 1994-1995 cars have the main engine wiring harness issues and should be avoided unless the harness has been replaced.
Overall, the W202 is a terrific used car buy and later nmodles can be found for 1/2 of new cost and have years and years of service life left.
johngenx critique of the C models. I bought a
new C220 in 1996 and drove it 4 years/50,000 miles
with NO warranty work. Traded it in for a new
E 320 in 2000. Have since picked up a low mileage
2000 C 280 with 25,000 miles, now up to 30,000.
I have a dumb question: explain the harmonic
balancer. Is there something special to watch for
her to avoid problems? Would appreciate a lesson.
Thanks.
The M112 V-6 and M113 V-8 engines use a new balancer design with a rubber interior that can degrade, come loose, and then get "flung" around in the engine bay. I have met owners that had the balancer parts tear into their engines, including damaging oil pans, blocks, rads, etc. In many cases the total bill was several thousand dollars. Mercedes-Benz refuses to acknowledge the problem, and if it happens outsode the warranty period, you're on your own.
The only way to tell if you're in danger is to visit the dealer. They can check the part # on the balancer and tell you where it is in the "sequence." Have them run a Vehicle Master Inquiry (VMI) on the car to see if has been done under warranty.
Before driving the car anymore, get under the hood and visually inspect the balancer. If the rubber interior "doughnut" looks cracked in the slightest, get thee to thy dealer, asap.
This problem effects ALL M112 cars including the 2.8L C280 W202, the CLK cars, ML and E-Class cars from 1998. The M113 is effected as well, but I haven't heard the horror stories that M112 woners have relayed.
Here's link that might help with info...
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=fc471663b- 9ee74ca3e43de747965217a&threadid=63512
Your '96 E is indeed a prime candidate for this kind of failure. How much? Well, whatever it cost on your E...but it has nothing to do with the C vs the E - it's about the older inline 6 vs the newer V6. As noted above, the issues with the new-gen modular V family ['98 on for us] are different.
TIA
Thanks for the extensive details on the W202 models. Did not know I had an Eaton brand supercharger, nor that the engine designation was M111.975. Good info for a Google search too.
- Paul
balancers. I will check this out soon even tho
I have a certified car. So far, I have been very
pleased with the performance of the v6 2.8 liter
engine and want to stay that way. Vern
This includes the W124 1993 300E with the DOHC 3.2L engine, the W124 1994-1995 E320, the W210 1996-1997 E320, the W202 1994-1997 C280 and the W140 1992-1999 300SE/S320 cars.
Anyone thinking of those cars as a used buy should examine the car's history carefully. As to the cost of a headgasket replacement, usually any M104 will eat about $1200-1500USD for the job, and more for a full top end job. Depending on mileage, you should think strongly about doing the top end when doing the head gasket.
The "new" Evo 1.8 engine in the CL230 (should be CL180...?) is a new engine in many respects (designation M111.981) and is not a proven quantity here.
However, since it's cousins, the M111.961/M111.974/M111.975 are very durable, it's not a stretch to think it will be as well. Mercedes has lots of experience in building alloy engines. That is one main difference between the 111.981 and the previous versions. The .961/.974/.975 engines were all iron block mills.
It is funny that the M104 head gasket problems seem to evaded the M111 as the M111 is, in many ways, a sawed off M104. Oh well, since we don't have an M104 in the family, I don't dwell on it...
I'm glad to hear my cost was in the range quoted by johngenx; $1340. I was quoted $1640 by another dealer but went with the lower quote at my selling dealer and am very happy with the repair. And now satisfied that it was cost competitive as well. Since I bought the car from them I was entitled to a loaner and they gave me a fairly new C230K which was a blast to drive. If that engine were available in a C wagon, I would be very tempted to trade my wife's Matrix for it.. Anyone aware of plans to stuff that engine into the sedan/wagon anytime soon?
Then, the C230 four bangers would be the entry level cars, with the 320 the step into the six.
Here's the line I would want to see in Canada:
1. C270CDI diesel wagon and sedan, available in RWD and 4-matic. Should be the least expensive C-Class in the line, with a Classic trim available with manual HVAC, no traction control, no COMAND, etc.
2. C230-K sedan (not sure about trim level or wagon availability) But I do know the C230 Sports sedan should continue (dropped in Canada) with standard 17" wheels, special trim, sports suspension, black-out grille and leather at a price that is WAY less than the options individually.
3. C320 sedan and wagon, available in RWD and 4-matic.
4. C55-K sedan, a fire breathing M3/M5 killer compact sedan with the 469hp V-8 from the E55-K. If it doesn't fit, make it. They did it with the M117 into the original "Hammer." If not, then ensure the V-8 fits into the W204 iteration.
A C270 Classic wagon with 4-matic and the old-style heavy MB-Tex, manual tranmission, manual HVAC, manual seats, a radio with nice big knobs, and no traction control or drive-by-wire would have me trading tomorrow. (No traction control means no throttle actuators, a constant expensive problem with ASR/ESP equipped cars)
Your "ideal" would work for me, as well, except I would prefer an automatic - I too wish we could deselect many of the things that make the car more expensive [and prone to failure]...choices most other markets in the world get to make, but we don't.
I'm not sure that a C55 makes much sense, since you would have to have fulltime AWD to handle that much power. How about a C500 instead? And then you wouldn't have to worry about turbo failure either..
A C55-K 4-matic? Perhaps, but might spoil all the fun. Lurid power oversteer and smoking tire launches sounds EXACTLY what the AMG C-Class needs. The C32 is there, but with the near-future M3 probably going to bring 400hp or more to the table, AMG better be ready if they want to remain the king of the HP wars.
I just have an aversion to superchargers and turbochargers. They may be fine under warranty, but since MB's last "forever" and the warranty doesn't, there is a much greater chance of megabuck repairs down the road. Give me the cubes, please, without the oxygen.. KISS principle.. Keep it simple, simon..
I had the pleasure of driving an SL500 last year and was bowled over by the standing start kick in the butt. I made the tires ripple without smoking them.. Awesome.. A C500 would be an exciting car to drive..
I remember the turbos of the 1980s were especially prone to failure due to issues with cooling the turbo. I drove a 1982 Nissan 280ZX and was told to always idle it for 30 seconds before turning it off. I know there's no need to do that with the supercharger, but am curious as to how long SC bearings are usually good for. Also, how are they oiled - oil passage from/to the engine?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchar- - gers.html
- P.
I have 2 questions for the board. I have actually managed to put 63K miles on my 2002 C-240 in 2 years so the brakes are questionable and the windshield took a huge rock outside of DC a couple of weeks ago.
I had the windshield replaced according to my insurance companies policy, and they put in a PPG windshield instead of the OEM windshield that was Pilkington. They assured me there is no difference. The windshield is great and I was relieved... until I tried the rain sensing wipers. I did specify a rain sensing windshield and the PPG glass supports it. My problem is that the rain sensor seems to behave erratically at best. It used to be perfect before I got the new windshield. I have a couple of questions:
Has anyone had a similar situation?
Is there some "setting" in the computer that a MB dealer could change to make the sensor work with the PPG windshield? (pure conjecture on my part)
My next issue is regarding front rotors. I am moving the car to Maryland from New Hampshire and I have to have it inspected. It failed on first attempt because of thin front rotors. The inspection shop wants to replace the OEM rotors with Raybestos rotors. They claim the OEM rotors are thin to begin with and are not designed to ever be re-cut. The raybestos rotors are supposed to be better and last longer. The absolutely crazy thing here is that the Raybestos rotors are actually $20 more each rotor than the OEM Mercedes rotors. The guys at the shop were actually amazed that anything from OEM Mercedes could be cheaper than the aftermarket offering. They were willing to put on either but suggested the Raybestos for $140 per front rotor versus the OEM Mercedes for $120 per front rotor.
Has anyone changed front rotors? Do you have experience with Raybestos rotors?
I have been extremely pleased with the Mercedes OEM brakes. I feel like I have really put them through their paces (including emergency stops from 80MPH) with no warping or any problems. They have never felt unsure or soft. I hate to change when I have a good thing... but I suppose there could be better things out there?
Should I give it a try?
Please give me any and all feedback. I will report back with what I decide to do and how it turns out.
Banana belt? LOL, first time I've heard it referred to as that! I don't suppose you go to 3 point motors, do you? I happen to like the occasional snowfall. Gives me a chance to really play around with the ML's 4WD system. At the state our weather is in though, I almost think that I can get around in a C320 with winter tires! Nah wouldn't make it up the mountain where I live...give me back my 4-matic! ;-)
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
I would always go with OEM MB parts, unless they were ridiculously expensive. I had rotor warp on my 1995 C220 and decided against replacement until the linings were worn enough. I believe it was from washing the car and spraying water into the front wheels to clean them, a definite no-no after driving. So far on my 2000 C230 no such problem, I've been very careful.
Good luck on the windshield, again I'd check with the dealership and see what they had to say. I prefer them because of their techs' years of practical and classroom experience. Also used to work in a dealership years ago, so I know it can be a con game. Just have to be careful, sometimes you don't know though. That's why these forums are great.. anyone else have some ideas??
Yes, they are indeed NOT designed to be cut or "turned", only replaced. This is the main reason the factory specifies the soft pads that so aggravate people with their massive amounts of dust. Harder pads solve that problem, but also wear out the rotors faster.
I inherently distrust advice from third parties about current [late model] MB service issues. There are lots of good specialist shops out there who are very up to date on the latest service info, but the best ones are not much cheaper than most dealers. But "generalists" are to be avoided when servicing these cars. It's a classic case of penny-wisdom and pound-foolishness.
Until this week, it was indicating the next service at about 12000 miles, which was reasonable given the condition of the oil [which has been in the crankcase 6500 miles, most of that highway driving]. This week, the FSS suddenly indicates that the A Service is due on January 10, which I deduce is two years to the day the computer was fired up on the assembly line. [Our car was a Jan '02 Bremen build, but we did not buy it until mid-Sept of '02].
Anyway, until now it had given no indication that it was aware of how much time had passed since the original fill of synthetic on the assembly line. Apparently, the default limit is 2 years, regardless of mileage, which makes good sense to me. Just an FYI...
Thanks,
Isn't there a dealer-installed single-disc CD player add-on? If not, it should probably cost less than $1000 to add the dealer-installed trunk-mounted CD changer, but they will charge more if at all possible.
I realize you did not "want" the CD changer, but this is the car you chose and your choices are now very limited.
Cheapest option would be to live with it like the previous owner or bring a portable boombox you can plug into the cigarette lighter.
Im reeeellly interested in buying dis 2001 C240 which is loaded wid evrything n has my favorite red colour too..only prob is it has 49k miles on it...da dealer aint goin down dan $22000..i reellly like it but am worried bout too many miles.....do u guyz think its worth buying it??
i'll appreciate if sumone gets bak to me soon.
Thanks,
Mz
so wut do u think? shud we buy it wid da warranty?
no wut I meen?
;-)
Did you see my message to you just above this one?
Good luck - feel free to email me if I can help you with the logistics around here. Click on my name to get the address.
so wut do u think? shud we buy it wid da warranty?
oh sorry I hit refresh and it might be posting my mssgs twice..will take care from now..
I was one of the very early owners of the C-320(all options execept the phone) delivered in November of 2000. This car had over 30 visits for problems ranging from electrical to brakes, etc. I had expected so much more than what was delivered for $46,000. (in year 2000 dollars)
The highlights were that this car was a great road driver with much more power than the 215 rated hp.(Knocking off 260 hp Infinitys was easy from the toll booths). At 44,000 miles I was getting 27 to 31 honest mpg on the open road at 65-70 mph. Long distance cruising and driving position was top notch, though the outside rear view mirrors we marginal in providing coverage in the blind spots. Winter traction was horrible and even poor in heavy rains.(225 50 contis)
I was not sad to get rid of this car at lease end. I see 01 320s selling now for 23-25k, a far cry from the declared residual of 29,500. Consumer reports will not recommend the 01 C320 either because of the problems that surfaced. If any of you are looking a a used 01, my advice is to walk away unless you can get a full coverage warranty on everything, not just the drive train.
I came from a Lexus to MB and happily went back to a Lexus 430 that while a bit boring, is perhaps one of the best made cars for the money
Regards,
However, nothing drives like this car, and the service at Laguna Niguel MB has been outstanding.
What do you remember in this life?
-Your best friend in high school who kept getting the two of you in trouble...
-Your favorite dessert that probably clogs up your arteries with only one bite......
-The person you love deeply who also drives you crazy...
For some reason, everything in this world that takes your breath away seems to have a dark side. I think I'll keep my car for now.
My lease was through Prestige of Paramus,NJ
with MBCC. Would love to hear your insights and anything I should lookout for.Thanks
In '02, we could have bought the last model of the E320 for $45K. I think over $45K is more than anyone needs to pay for MB's C-Class but, dollars aside, I prefer the C320 to the much bigger cars like Es or LX430s. As far a bigger car like the LX430 is concerned, the latest E500 interests me a lot more.
MGA3: MBCC sent an information packet out with a credit card size template. In short, if any damage was covered by the card, there was no problem. Things they look for are excess wear beyond normal usage, pock free windshields, no gold treatment on the emblems,and no scratches that go down to the metal. Door dings were ok and you need to have tires that have at lease 60 % of the tread left that are all of the same brand/size. An inspector came out about 20 days prior to note anything that needed attention so I could get it done before the return. He also reviewed of the service maintenence documentation. My car passed but he did note the paint chipping in the front end from 44+K miles and a small ding in the fender I never noticed.(Surprising since I'm the guy always looking for the end spot far from the front door at the malls we visit) The actual turn in took 15 minutes at my selling dealer.
MAC320: My point to the dollars was that I paid full list for this car. (Yes it does cost to be the first) I wouldn't have minded if the car had been trouble free. Yes if you option out this car with command,GPS, full leather, C-1,2,3,4 with the sport option, its easy to get $46,000+ even in 2001. I'm happy for all of you that got a deal, in retrospect I should have waited.
MBNUT: You are right about the road experience and time will tell though you need to try the LS series since it is turbine smooth, but does need a better tire wheel combo for better cornering performance.
Hansen and other posters: You are right about that feel you get with the C Sedan. No ever wondered what it was and to the driver, it felt much larger from the front cockpit.
Mlescovar: My dealer was great in helping fix what was wrong(Knauz in Lake Forest Illinois) I just couldn't keep taking time to take it in. By the way, the early builds of of 2001 240s and 320s did not have a working satellite unlock feature; at my insistence they fixed that by retrofitting a complete rear wiring harness/electronics. They dealers are aware of the serial numbers involved but never did issue a recall to those early buyers. I learned of this issue at this web site in Dec 2000.
I may try again with the E series but I want to see if the quaility is better and the price is right. My motto: Never first at buying a new model series.
Regards to all.
If I were spending near $50,000, I would want something on a higher level than a C class.
Also im asking everybody here for a opinion, im having a chance to trade my c230 for a c32amg (all time favorite) new 03 left over and great price or should i go for 2003 clk320 regular also a left over both prices are very attractive buy.
In the perfect $$$ world i would get a clk55 amg but that is out of question.
thank you everyone that takes time to respond.