Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

mleskovar · January 2004

I believe an '03 clk is the end of that body style (I don't like the rear vision from it)? The C32 is a land rocket but less 'sporty' than the clk. The C32 will have better reasale value if that's a consideration. My choice would be the C32.

mbnut1 · January 2004

The '03 is the beginning of the new body style. Given that, the data suggests that the coupe's resale will actually be higher than the C32. A 99 C43 is now worth 49% of it's MSRP vs a 99 take your pick CLK which is worth 64%. This is consistant with a basic rule which says the more a given car exceeds its base model msrp the more depreciation it is going to see. If you don't beleive this compare the price of used 4matic E430's to a E320.

If you can live with the coupe get the CLK. Hot rods get tiresome in the long run.

mleskovar · January 2004

If the clk is the new body style I would definitely buy it instead of the C32.......

brislance1 · January 2004

What is a fair price to pay for an 02 C 320 with only 10,000 miles? The car is spotless and listed in the mid 40 thousand range. The owner added a six disc mounted in the glove compartment from the dealer worth $900.00. The car has a premium extended warranty for an additional 4 years. I know little about Mercedes, being a BMW owner, but am thinking seriously of making an offer on this car.

Can some expert give me an idea of a high and low price for this car? I have checked Edmunds for private party prices, but would like to hear from some of you MB fanatics. Thanks.

mleskovar · January 2004

Without looking at Autotrader or the newspaper my guess is $37K - $40k tops.

jrct9454 · January 2004

Under no circumstances is a used '02 C320 a $40k car! You can buy a new one for that!

Go to the KBB website, look up its WHOLESALE value, add maybe 3-5%, and that is a really fair offer to a private party.

Personally, my top price for this car, warranty and all, would be in the $32-$33k range. It would auction or wholesale for $29-$30k in most markets, less in some.

My '02 C240 is spotless, has 9500 miles on it, carries the factory extended warranty for 7/100, and is probably worth $23-$24k wholesale, maybe $26-28K retail. You do the math on an equivalent C320.

By contrast, here in the Portland OR metro area, I can buy a NEW '04 C320 automatic with roof and CD changer for less than $37.8k; the discounted extended warranty from the best, cheapest dealer in the country would still bring it in under $40k.

Bottom line: the seller of this car needs a reality check, badly.

matt101 · January 2004

Picked up an 01 C320 last July with 14,000 miles from a Lexus dealer here in CA. Paid $26,000. Perfect condition incl records. Couple of issues that I will take care at some point-small rattle from rear door speaker area, slight wine from rear differncial. Typical problems with the C Class It's a great ride so far. Picked up an extended warr. from a local MB dealer.

paul_p · January 2004

I agree - the seller does indeed need a sanity check. Low mileage does not cause a car to hold a significantly larger proportion of its value - the age of a car is the most important factor in determining its value.

This was made clear to me by my MB sales rep in New Jersey several years ago, and time has definitely shown me that it's true.

mleskovar · January 2004

"...the age of a car is the most important factor in determining its value. " This statement is debatable.
Year, condition, mileage, and options, are all factors in determining the value of a car relative to a like car and any one of them can severly affect the pricing. Year determines only body style in a used car. IMHO

benz747 · January 2004

I experienced how ESP works ! while my way back home from Auto Show (detroit) to Ohio, I happen to hit black ice at 60 mph. before I could do any thing car slide left then back on right and again left and back on right ! within 30 seconds I was back in control ~ hush although thanks there was absolutely no traffic around 4 AM in the morning.... but if it was not been ESP I would have defiantly been end up in a ditch sliding the car in one direction - I am glad that I bought MB

cjs2002 · January 2004

I'm sure someone on this board is leasing a C230 sedan, my question is I'm wondering about what the monthly payment I can expect to deal with. I'm getting a car next month and Its comming down to the wire here.

mojorider2 · January 2004

I woulD like to buy all-season tires for my '04 c230 Sports Sedan. The the parts manager at the local dealership told me that I need 225/45/17 for the front and 245/40/17 for the back. The the spec sheet on the MB web page indicates the same thing. However all of the tires (performance) that came with the car are 225/45/17.

Did the car come with the wrong tires for the back or are the web page/parts manager incorrect?

jrct9454 · January 2004

...during the production run of 04 C230 Sports; one of the changes was the move to wider tires for the rear [something I think is perfectly silly in this class of car]. Obviously, your car was produced before this change - count yourself lucky. Put all four on using the 225/45 profile.

I recommend Michelin all-season Pilots for this car, incidentally.

g17 · January 2004

I'm leasing a 230k sedan....my payments are 440/mo 15K/yr with about $800 down.....mine has auto, sunrf pkg, htd seats, xenons, 6disc changer....hope this helps....

s852 · January 2004

You left out a very important piece of information.

How many payments?

paul_p · January 2004

Point well taken - lots of things do factor into a trade-in value. Sorry but I've become a bit jaded over the years, this is also possibly due to what I saw working in Parts at a GM auto dealership in 1981.

It's probably due to my lack of negotiation skills, but whenever I trade a vehicle the thing that I've found that can't be debated as easliy as others has been the model year of the vehicle.

- P.

g17 · January 2004

Oh yeah its 39 mo. but I think I'll turn it in when I have about 6 mo. or less remaining, and get a new MB.

mbnut1 · February 2004

Anybody driven both the standard and sport C-Class? How much harsher is the sport suspension on the C320 than the standard suspension.

merc1 · February 2004

The 2005 C-Class details have been posted at the Benzworld site.

The changes for 2005 include:

Nano-particle based paint finish. This will provide a better looking finish that is also much more durable to swirls and scratches.

New seats. (Desperately needed, imo)

New instrument cluster. Finally some actual dials and not that ridiculous looking current layout!

New steering wheel, though it looks like it could have come from any number of Japanese cars, or an Audi.

Cornering headlights from the E-Class.

Improved Comand system.

The C32 AMG has been replaced by the 360hp V8 C55 AMG.

The exterior has been freshened, but you'll be hard-pressed to see the changes from the initial pictures. Nothing shocking.

C55 AMG has a slightly different front end to allow the fitting of the V8. Kinda like the 1993 600SL I guess.

Not sure if we get a standard in-dash CD player here in the U.S.

No mention if the C240 and C320 get more power or become something else, like C300 and C350 (rumored before).

More details to come....

M

biggoron · February 2004

Hello,
I have an 03 C230 sedan. I got it in May of 2003. I've had no problems with it until November. I was driving down the expressway when I was hit by a rock, cracking the windshield. It was small and was repaired. The repairman said its odd because M Benz uses strong glass. So i figure its a fluke, whatever. Then in January 04. I got another crack in the top passenger side. Too big to fix, it needed to be replaced. Thank God I waited because just yesterday, I got another crack, this time right in my face. As I drove I watched it get bigger.
My question is, has anyone else had problems with this windshield? I read online someone else had a similar problem with theirs and replaced it 3 time in 6 months.
Does anyone else have this problem?
I think Mercedes should stand behind their parts because they won't put this under warranty. I'm afraid to drive my car and watch the crack get bigger. I think they should replace it for free with their 326$ windshield, plus labor at 97$ an hour. Or give me free labor, and I'll pay the $326.
Comments anyone? Please tell me others have had bad windshields........

jrct9454 · February 2004

...no special problems with our C240's glass, and never for that matter in the 35 year history [14 cars] I've had with MB. On the other hand, a rock hit on the windshield has the potential to crack the glass ANY TIME ON ANY CAR. And no, I know of NO manufacturer who is going to replace your windshield under warranty without some good reason. I follow online discussions about MB on at least 4 different forums, including this one, and I am unaware of any special issues regarding their windshield durability. This has come up exactly zero times on the W203 forum at MBWorld, and that crew seems to turn up everything wrong with these cars.

The second crack is probably a consequence of the first, rather than a separate failure. In any case, I follow this stuff pretty closely, and I can tick off the long list of known W203 C-Class problems - this doesn't make that list, to my knowledge, anyway.

pat · March 2004

Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!

tenet1 · March 2004

I would like to get your feedback around prices you all have paid for a C320 or even 240. I am looking for a wagon and know that wagon info may be hard to obtain. I live in the DC area and would like to know what the deals are in this area and how much discount people are able to get when ordering or picking from inventory.
Thanks

mbnut1 · March 2004

I'm not sure about new but I can tell you that the best bargain out there is a used C320 wagon

johncdnrockies · March 2004

We have also had a crack in our '01 C320. Nevertheless, this car's windshield has lasted longer than most (the local roads department uses chipped rocks instead of salt as a road abrasive).

I don't know of any manufacturer who guarantees their windshields. However, most insurance companies will pay for replacement without it having any impact on your premiums. Suggest you check with your local broker.

John

johncdnrockies · March 2004

This note is directed to jrct9454 (and anyone else who has visited these boards or has C problems).

This is our first post to the C board (usually I'm at the RX 330 sessions). We have an '01 C320 coming off lease and are considering buying it in another 3 months. Our company deals are pretty attractive (original cost was around C$55k as the car is loaded with every option, lease buyout will likely be around C$20k/US$14k for a 3 year old rig with less than 30,000 miles on it).

Unfortunately it has had more than its fair share of electrical problems, all handled under warranty. Engine, tranny, brakes and other components have been great.

Consumer Reports rates the car very poorly, making us wonder whether we are buying a lemon. Could you list some of the major problems with the vehicle? We really enjoy driving it and will likely make a purchase assuming it is sound.

Thanks in advance for your help.

J

jrct9454 · March 2004

We had an '01 C240 on order from the first announcement of the car - April of 2000. Even got a brief pre-intro while we were staying in Las Vegas in Sept, as the hotel we were in was HQ for MBUSA's Western dealer unveiling of the car [I have a great shot of the parking garage filled with C sedans - 40 of them, I recall]. I was hot to trot...

Our car was an "oddball" for the US market - I wanted to avoid all options except the automatic trans and fold-down rear seat, so our car was not among the first to arrive. Immediately, the air filled with the stories of the electrical and electronic [computer] problems of the early cars. We cancelled our order, bought a Honda Accord V6, and rode off into the sunset, feeling pretty good about having dodged the bullet.

At that point, I had owned 13 Mercedes in the 40 years I had been buying cars [a total of 50+ cars in all in that time], and it became obvious after 18 months with the Accord that the subtle combination of qualities that made MB unique were going to be missed. The Accord was quick, and roomy, but the seats were not especially wonderful, the ride was a bit flinty, and like all Hondas, road noise was annoying on long trips. We started shopping around.

It boiled down to a near tie between a very basic BMW 325 [which was a hard car to find - another custom order was looming], or the now-more-mature W203 C sedan. After a lot of testing and pondering, we bought an '02 C240 with a US MSRP of $34.5k for $30k in Sept of '02. There were dealer incentives at the time [as there are now], and this car had been in their inventory for over 6 months.

It now has 10,000 miles on it. It required a wheel alignment at delivery [wanted to pull to the left, and it took a talented and creative tech to solve the problem - he put extra caster on one side, hardly the textbook solution, but it worked], and later a plugged vent tube in the differential had to be cleared to cure a leak that had developed. That's been it for us.

During this last 18 months, I've read endless tales from all of the websites I visit regularly about the long list of woes that others have experienced with the W203. Clearly, this car was a poster child for the things that have gone wrong with D-B's engineering and product development culture. They depend too much on outside suppliers, don't test enough, and don't have the resources to jump on problems quickly the way the Japanese do. BUT....like BMW and VW and Audi and Porsche, their cars reward with a driving experience that none of the Japanese seem to have mastered. They're getting close - if I could afford one, we would own an LS430. The Infinti G comes close, but the ride is harder than I think is necessary, a common failing with many makes these days.

I'm taking a long time to answer the question, because so much of the answer depends on what you want in a daily driver. MB now has a good handle on most, if not all, of the problems that were so evident in the early W203s. Solutions are known, and good dealers know what to do. If you have a car that already has had the fixes applied, and is otherwise still fun to drive, then the price seems more than reasonable to me. In our market, $14k US doesn't buy you much that can compare with the way this car drives, never mind the complete safety package, competent brakes, etc. The key question is: given the service history of your car, has it "settled down", or are there still a list of unsolved problems? If the former, I'd go ahead and buy it; if the latter, I wouldn't. And the competence, convenience, and confidence you have in your dealer plays heavily into this - only you know how you feel about the service you'll be getting.

Summing up: to me, a "lemon" is a car with an unusual number of problems that seemingly never get put to bed - it's always something new, and the car never "settles". I've had four in my time, [all German], and I dropped them like a hot rock. You need to judge how this car's history squares with that picture - has it had a good long period lately with nothing untoward happening, or are things still cropping up? Then you know what to do...

mbnut1 · March 2004

Anybody who doesn't buy a C320 with 30k miles for $14K is certifiable.

jrct9454 · March 2004

Wholesale book on the car around here is in the low $20k [US] range. In theory, the worst that could happen is that you turn around and sell it cross-border at a decent profit.

In reality, the hassle-factor involved still means that you have to believe the worst of the car's history is behind it. Either you do or you don't...

johncdnrockies · March 2004

Thanks John (jrct9454), your lengthy post is informative and very helpful. Faye certainly enjoys the rig but it still has significant items cropping up every 5,000 miles. Your "settling down" comment is much appreciated (with 2 teenage daughters, why didnt I think of that?) as it brings into perspective our situation.

In terms of comfort and ride it has been an awesome vehicle (and I love to drive on the edge  occasionally right to the limiter). The quality issues have been covered under warranty up to now and I assume they have cost Mercedes a bundle. They have been very fair with us - no word of criticism there.

Fred (mbnut) you are quite right about the price. We recognize that we can buy and flip the vehicle. Our reservations relate to whether we would keep the car as the comfort and ride are outstanding. That probably sounds like a plea for an excuse to hang in, doesnt it?

John

jrct9454 · March 2004

That was, I suppose, the core point behind my thoughts - these cars behave differently [a positive difference] than the competition, and that makes them seem worth the hassle.

I should also mention that one of the reasons we focused on a really basic C240 [though in our market one can't duplicate the simplicity of the Classic available in Canada] is that it avoids a lot of the electronic doo-dads that have been at the heart of the failures - no memory seats/steering wheels, no COMAND, no electronic climate control [I would have done without the sunroof if I could have] - all of which have been implicated in the "recent unpleasantness". This still leaves one vulnerable to the fuel sending unit problems [this is shared across all German makes - they all use the same supplier], the engine software, the purge valve mounting...to name a few that I know of. Again, solutions to all of these are in the hands of dealers now.

Let us know what you decide.

John R.

paul_p · March 2004

John and John,

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts on this topic. Although my car is a W202, I enjoyed reading your posts, and now have a better perspective on the recent C-Class electronic issues.

Mbnut1, I fully agree - even an auto wholesaler would not turn down a deal like that! Guess it all depends on whether or not you are willing to live with the potential repair issues.

So far the only major issue with my '00 C230 has been the battery - the original replaced last November, and that one replaced last month. The dealer suggested I use a trickle charger when I don't run the car for extended periods in the winter.

Also, at 12,000 miles the ContiSportContact tires seem to be wearing a bit faster than my former C's ContiTouringContacts. Btw, I do have them rotated and balanced every 5,000 miles.

- Paul

mleskovar · March 2004

What a deal, if you don't want to buy it can I take your place? And I don't even need a car. My '01 C320 went through most of the well known problems in the first year, a few after. None of the problems affected the car's reliability but were more in the nuisance class. I now have 60K miles on it and it's a joy to drive. I believe the problems were mostly poor vendor parts quality and MB has a lot to learn about vendor relations before they approach Japanese quality.

johncdnrockies · March 2004

Thanks to all posters for sharing your experiences. We have another couple of months to run before this expires, so will keep our fingers crossed.

For the record, our car has been with the dealer for over a week now and still now word on when it will be returned. Guess it sure is handy to have alternate units to fill the gap ... :-)

jrct9454 · March 2004

...what are they working on that is taken over a week?

In the US, of course, you would be driving a dealer's car under these circumstances.

sleake · March 2004

Hi Folks. I used to post regularly, but haven't for a couple of years. Just check in once in awhile instead, but this particular conversation seems right up my alley. I can't offer any better advice about purchasing the leased car than what's already been stated. But I can share my experience. My car was bought in Oct 2000, so it's one of the early models. Even today, I have only 22,000 miles on it. However, by the time it had reached 18,000 miles, it had spent 68 days in the shop (approximately 1 day for every 264 miles) and trips to the shop occurred, on average, every 1500 miles. Mostly all electronics and electrical problems. However, as the car approached 18,000 miles, the problems got worse--or should I say more serious, in that control modules kept going out affecting my ability to lock the doors, close windows, use side view mirrors,etc. (On multiple occasions I had to detour from my planned destination, to the dealer because of "no go" problems arising.) Also had fuel sensor problems causing the car to stall twice, and so far, every exterior light on the car has been replaced at least twice. Between 18,000 miles and the current mileage, I've experienced a power steering leak, and a possible transmission leak and both tail lights burned out again, making it the 3rd replacement for each. Thus, it hasn't really shown any clear signs yet, of "settling down." Of course, the fact that it's nearly 4 years old but still very low mileage makes this a somewhat difficult call to make.

I have no complaints with the dealer, and as others here have noted, I love driving the car. But, the hassle factor has been very high, and as it stands now, I'm constantly worrying about what's going to go wrong next. I've talked with John about this in the past (I'm the woman from Sacramento), and his advice at that time was to dump the car. What John doesn't know is that I've subsequently filed a lemon law claim against Mercedes Benz. The outcome remains unknown, but it's not costing me anything to play it out and see what happens. (The attorney collects from MB if we win, and if we loose he gets nothing.)

I'm reasonably certain that I do not want to be driving the car when the warranty runs out in October, so I'm now starting to think about a replacement. I love the new E320, and would buy it in a second, but I worry about having the same problems? (Your thoughts/comments on this would be appreciated.) After observing the problems I've had with the C, most of my friends consider me nuts for even considering another MB -- but then, they've never owned one, so what do they know?? The 530i is also a definite possibility. I'm waiting to see if the looks might "grow on me" some. The G35, which I drove this past weekend, is quite peppy with 260hp, but it just doesn't compare to the MB or BMW. And I find the Lexus to be totally boring.

Sherrill

jrct9454 · March 2004

You're right....long time no hear!

As you describe the situation, clearly things have gone very steeply downhill since we last discussed this online. I think your Lemon Law filing is right on - whether or not the strict definition of the law will eventually be found to apply, it is no big secret that MBUSA has been known to offer up settlements that often take the form of a heavily subsidized trade-in on a new car in circumstances like yours. IF you are still interested in an E when and if they decide to settle, you may find something attractive on the table.

But I think there is a generality that needs to be part of the consideration in this discussion: the more complicated the system[s], the more chances for things to go wrong. We've been fortunate so far with our C240, but then there are two things that are true in our case that stand out: 1) our car was built in January of 2002 in Bremen, some 19 months after initial production began, and 2) we are without so many of the electrical "assists" and "features" that are the source of so many of the problems. Otherwise, it's the luck of the draw.

The new E has had its share of teething problems, as well...but this time you would have the advantage of those 18 months or more of production experience. I would nevertheless stay away from COMAND at all costs, as well as such cutting-edge features as the pano roof. A basic E320 is a virtuous piece of work. I don't think it's insane at all to keep it on your shopping list.

The new 530 [or 525...my prejudice for keeping it simpler and less costly] is certainly a fine alternative, though subject to the same new-model risk that you took on with the C. On the other hand, the BMW 3er is a mature product that is very, very nice [it was, as I said, a very near thing between these cars for me]...if you don't need the room in the back seat, as it fails to provide space for real adults back there.

I'll have to admit that one of the things that pushed me in the direction of MB vs BMW was, at least at the time, a positive familiarity with MB-Sacto [both in sales and service], vs. no knowledge at all about either Niello or Roseville BMW.

Since our move to Vancouver, WA, I have had only one experience with our dealer in Portland [there are two in the area, owned by the same principal], which was mostly positive. However, I haven't asked them to solve any problems...which is the big test. The problems I laid at the doorstep of MB Sacto were always solvable locally [wheel alignment, the diff leak], i.e. they were not design or basic engineering failings that could only be solved by a fundamental change back in Stuttgart. BMW has gone through some real doosies with the current 3er, but that is mostly behind them now - an advantage of being near the end of the life cycle.

Do let us know how it plays out - I will be very interested to know how MBUSA responds.

mbnut1 · March 2004

Sorry I get first dibs on Johncdnrockies C320.

neskier · March 2004

Hi all,

It has been a while, but I thought I would chime in with a report on my 2002 C-240.

My 2002 C-240 is just about to roll over the 70,000 mile mark. It has been a great highway car that I use all the time for business travel. However there have been problems, but not so many I am upset.

Problems:

- Seemingly chronic problem of going through front ball joints. They were replaced under warranty at 35,000 miles, and now at 70,000 it feels like they are due again without the warranty, I will be paying cash. Not sure exactly why this happens, but it does.

- Driver's side power window. It is stuck in the up position. I can hear the relay click to try to lower the window, but nothing happens. I suspect a frozen pulley or cable. Who knows what that will cost...

- Exterior lights... I have gone through about 3 or 4 bulbs which is ok at $1.50 each, but it does seem strange that they burn out so often.

- Parking brake cable. Cable was too loose to put on the parking brake. I suspect the techs at one of the service intervals caused this problem, and then at the next interval charged me a hours labor to fix it. Either way, it works fine now.

- Windshield issues (Not Mercedes fault)
I hit a rock which cracked the windshield, I contacted my insurance company and they had the windshield replaced by Diamond Autoglass. The first shop I took it to in Philadelphia accidentally dropped the new windshield and shattered it. No new windshield for me that day. The next shop I went to in DC put in the windshield, but did a horrible job. The roof rails are all crooked, the rubber seals are visibly out of alignment, and the rain sensing wipers have now lost their mind. Upon recent inspection from a Mercedes dealer, they confirm that the glass was put in haphazardly and in the process of doing so they broke one of the mounting pieces for the rain sensor black plastic cover. The rain sensor is very sensitive and needs that cover on in perfect alignment and thus its poor performance. I am still negotiating with Diamond Autoglass... If they replace the glass (THEY SHOULD!), I will watch them like a hawk while they do it. Too many of these glass dealers just slap the glass in and drive away, the rest is your problem.

- Tires... My first set of Goodyear Eagle RSA's lasted about 35,000 miles. They scalped so badly and were loud that I replaced them with Continental Contitouring CH95's. The Continentals are so quiet and comfortable without sacrificing much performance at all. I would highly recommend them for high speed highway driving that you want to be smooth and quiet. However, they only lasted 35,000 miles as well. They are evenly worn. I think my next set will be Pirelli P6. Maybe they will last longer, who knows. Hopefully they will be quiet like the Contis. I go through a set of tires per year, so I figure I might as well try a new set every year... anyone have any suggestions?

There are no other problems. The car has actually been a joy to own and drive. I can't complain.

Perhaps I could complain about the maintenance costs... It looks like the Service B at 60-70K will cost about $400-600 plus the window motor and the ball joints.

-john

paul_p · March 2004

You might want to look at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp. Tire rack has an incredibly detailed survey that gives consumer's ratings for various manufacturer's tires.

- P.

sleake · March 2004

Thanks for the reply. You've made a couple of good points that I will definitely consider: mainly that the E Class is now 18 months old with some of the bugs worked out, but the same cannot be said about the new 5 series. btw..I have not considered a 3 series BMW because if anything, I would prefer a slightly larger car than I currently have.

As for the law suit, I was hoping that MB would start negotiating before we got to court, but so far they haven't, and my attorney tells me that they rarely do. I would be open for an especially attractive deal on an E class if that were to come up for discussion. We are still waiting at this point, for a court date. It was nice hearing from you again.

Sherrill

bobcatman · March 2004

Who says the G35 doesn't compare to the new Benz or BMW? Quite silly. That's like saying the new 7 series is more reliable or better built than an LS430. The C class is one of the worst new Mercedes along with M class piece of junk. Bad, bad marks in the CR lastest issue. If I had as many problems with a model or brand they would be long gone in my book. That's why I'll never give a penny of business to the problem Germans till they get their act together.

jrct9454 · March 2004

I can't remember anyone recently "dissing" the G35. I tried one before buying our C, and was quite impressed, but for two issues: the ride was firmer than I thought necessary [and the sports pkg only makes it more so], and the standard seats [not the power, leather option] were simply too soft and poorly shaped for either my wife or me.

That it doesn't work for me does not make it an unworthy competitor to the Germans in this class. I also tried very much to like the IS300, but again, ride quality had been compromised to achieve handling numbers - a tradeoff that I think is too common among the Japanese competitors in this segment.

What has always set BMW, MB, and Audi apart from Toyota, Nissan, and Honda is a fine balance between ride comfort and handling ability, along with an early appreciation of the importance of a complete safety package. No question in the mind of this automotive veteran, however, that the Japanese Big 3 have it all over the Germans for reliability and lower long-term ownership hassles.

Having owned cars from ALL of the manufacturers in the previous paragraph, I think I have a pretty good perspective on the competition.

bobcatman · March 2004

I respect your views and I was a little too harsh in the post, but I'm certainly not alone that the Germans are in for a rough ride if they don't clean up the quality problems and soon. I've met some very P'd off former customers of Benz. who will never again go back not only because of problems but lousy dealer experience and support.

Mercedes riding on their past glory will only go so far in today's very competitive luxury market where Japan is the leader in quality and closing the gap fast on handling and road feel. The G35 is just better executed all around then the IS300 which has sorta juvenile styling but a great inline engine and very decent handling. I'm sure Lexus learned alot from the criticsm and the 2nd gen. car will be much better executed.

The G35's engine is a marvel in smoothness and great torque curve. Overall it's a little more rough around the edges then a 3 series but it's got BMW scrambling which up till now had no real true compet. The G35 cheapish interior finally gets a complete remake this fall. The C class is a few rungs below the current G35 and 330 series in being a true sport sedan and most of the mags. agree.

jrct9454 · March 2004

...but then I didn't want a "true sports sedan", I wanted a "true touring car". I subscribe to and read all of the magazines, and my preferences and needs, as they say, get no respect. Everything is about handling, handling, handling. I went through that a long time ago - I had one of the first BMW 1600-2s imported to the West Coast - but now I don't need to go around corners so as to make your eyes bug out.

In any case, anyone who buys a G or an IS over the competition gets no serious argument from me - it's all about what you want and need.

A final observation: Lexus [as distinguished from Toyota] has set a standard for dealer service and overall attitude that everyone would do well to emulate. Infiniti and Acura [I've dealt with both] haven't yet set themselves apart from most MB and BMW dealers. ALL tend to be better than Audi/VW. But the differences between individual dealers are so vast as to almost defy generalization - I've had good and bad experiences from just about everybody.

mleskovar · March 2004

"but now I don't need to go around corners so as to make your eyes bug out." :-) My sentiments exactly. The car mags definitely cater to the high cornering/accelerating/stopping G forces. Been there, done that.

mbnut1 · March 2004

that the Japanese are making more competitive cars with the Germans. That makes Mercedes even more affordable.

marceg · March 2004

When this year's Consumer Reports automobile issue came out, I was a bit surprised to see the 2003 C-Class' overall reliability rating as much worse than average given good reliability scores the car received in most all of the individual areas. (Three of the areas were identified as better than average, the rest were much better than average.) I believe CR weighs problems in some areas (engine, transmission, etc.) more heavily in other areas, so I searched for other 2003 models in the magazine with the same ratings for all of the individual areas. The closest one I could find was the 2003 Saab 9-5. The ratings for this car were almost identical, except the Saab actually 4 areas that were just "better than average" compared to the C-Class' 3. However, the Saab was given an overall rating of average. I really don't understand why the C-Class didn't receive the same rating.

Just thought I would share this...

jrct9454 · March 2004

You must read the introductory pages that lead into the reliability scores in Consumer Reports with great care. They meticulously explain why a lot of good individual scores [especially in the most recent year of the survey] can add up to a "Below Average" bottom line. There are weightings associated with each of the separate areas or reliability, and these account for individual differences after the scores are rounded to one of the five "dots".

It's complicated, but I trust their data more than any except the manufacturers themselves, who of course are not about to tell us what they know about their own products' warranty claims. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets larger sample sizes and uses more objectivity than CU. But you have to take the time to read their "guide to the data" for the overall scores to make sense.

Bottom line: MB's cars still have more things go wrong on average than most of the competition. The 03 Cs are better than the 01s and 02s, but still below average in CU's survey. I don't doubt that is correct.

sweetc230 · March 2004

I must be an isolated or lucky case, but I have now owned by '03 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan for 1 year and have put a little over 13K on it. It has only been to the shop for the one routine service @ 11K and I had the tires rotated @ 7K. Maybe it is b/c I have the 6spd manual and I only put the C2 package (sunroof and automatic rear sunshade), Bose, CD Changer & heated seats options on the car (less to go wrong). This has been the MOST trouble free first year of ownership EVER. I have owned a BMW 318is, Honda Prelude VTEC, Jetta GLX & Passat GLS and everyone of those vehicles were in the shop at least twice in the first year for reasons other than routine maint. And the VWs, don't get me started, these cars drove me nuts with their problems.

But I must say, I love this car as much as I did the day I picked it up. It blends price, style, comfort, luxury, handling, gas mileage, & safety better than any vehicle in its class. I would HIGHLY recommend this car to anyone.

Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles