Mazda MPV

stevemichele1 · March 2001

My wife and I are ready to dive in to the minivan market and unload our gasoholic Isuzu Trooper. We realy like the MPV. We test drove and really liked it. I'm concerned about what I thought was a lack of power. I don't really car to have a monster engine but th concern seems consistent with other comments and Edmunds road Test. Also, What is this Brake thumping thing. My wife felt vibration when braing, but I did not. Can anyone help???

maltb · March 2001

Java
Part numbers? what part numbers? umm, parts catalogs, yeah that's it. It's frustrating to see so many people walk into their dealer and be told that a part does not exist when it is right there in a book or fiche.

bfallis,
I don't stay current on going prices, but anytime I hear "1-day-super-tremendous-bargain-basement-blowout-sale", I shake my head. I would look on Edmunds to see what the current invoice price and incentives are and then go to your dealer armed and ready to do battle.

stevemichele,
Did it feel under powered to you when you drove it? I think everyone on this board has posted that they expected a wind up toy motor from all the negative press, but found the engine to be just right. On a recent 3000 mile road trip, I never once had a problem with power. The only problem was the very smooth highway cruising and the Oregon state trooper(or whatever he called himself).

blacklx · March 2001

We ended up paying over $5,000 off MSRP. We did get a 2000 though. I don't think that the big rebates are there for a 2001.

I noticed that I can make the brake "thump" less than my husband does. It's mainly just annoying. It's nothing major, I just open the moonroof and turn up the music.

MPV's and Odysseys aren't related but they do have some similar features.

We had to re-install the car seat and it was much easier this time.

One of my friends just bought a MPV and loves it also. We're getting a lot of compliments on ours.

We did have two adults in the back seat this weekend and since they had to crawl over car seats, it was a little tight but managable. For everyday use, we love the size.

The power seems fine, my husband and I fight to drive it.

One negative about the van, my 2 year old gets upset when the moonroof is open. I'm hoping that she gets used to it because I love having it open.

javadoc · March 2001

I'm going to have to swipe a parts book from my buddy down at the Mazda dealer. "Hey, look a donut!" heheh.

We just took MochaVan on a little (200m) roadtrip last weekend for a getaway, up over a mountain pass with 5-10% grades in the entire pass. To all of you who believe what journalists write (about the MPV's power)...I set the cruise at 70 and it stayed there the whole time, with occasional upshifting. Also, the trip included some fun "twisties" and that is one of my favorite things about the MPV, it's handling is incredible, esp for a van. If ne1's in the area, you must stay here

Maltb, let me introduce you to my friend, Mr. Valentine One...he finds those pesky Oregon State Police for you. :-)))

--Javadoc

maltb · March 2001

Well, growing up in So. California, posted 65 means they ticket over 80. Being my first time going that far north by ground, I figured the same was true. The officer didn't find that a worthy explanation.

In So Cal, they usually don't use radar on the highway and I'm good around the school zones. What happens if I don't pay an out of state fine? Hehe...

javadoc · March 2001

If memory serves correctly, OSP will pull you over depending on their bordom level, but it's been a few years for me, and I was young. Our AST "Men In Black" will pull you for 10-over, unless they're ultra-bored and you drive an import (not really). When in AK, never speed past a Park Ranger truck, they're state police too.

Really tho, the latest I heard from my donut-eating-pals, all Western states openly share driving records with each other's DMVs...Mrs. Javadoc's speeding ticket (w/the MPV) in Portland wound up on her AK driving record...plus sometimes unpaid fines find their way onto folks' credit report, ouch.

You're in SD? I've friends there... see them on our annual D-Land pilgrimage.

--java

alexv1n · March 2001

This was discussed here to the bone and I just want to add that not even it is sufficient, it is enough. Keep in mind that most of Europe and Asia are driving on 2.0L 135hp engine (well, OK, with manual transmission) and are OK with it. From my experience (I've been a happy 2000 MPV owner since Aug 2000), it's quite OK. The engine tends to rev high but it is made to work in that mode (remember that it's a sports car engine). It accelerates quite fast (can you really notice the difference of 0-60 in 1 second between, say, MPV and Ody?). Passing on two lane roads at high speeds are a little bit nervous but this is true for most cars unless you are driving Porsche.

What I noticed is that when you accelerate on a highway gradually in 4th gear without letting it shift down to 3rd, the engine really starts to pick up when the van reaches about 60mph (I can clearly feel more acceleration pushing me in the seat). So, I'd say the van really likes to cruise at 60 and above. You will still be fine to accelerate faster if you let it downshift to 3rd or even 2nd [in critical situations] (a lot of noise with engine revving up to 5,000 rpm but the result is clearly amazing :-).

To wind this up, MPV's power is excellent for most situations.

maltb · March 2001

Not San Diego, but I wouldn't mind living there.

I'm about 5 min.(at midnight)- 35 min.(at 5:00pm) away from the happiest place on earth. The summer fireworks are just barely visible(better from the roof). Wich reminds me of another great use for the MPV.

Durring the summer, I will take one of the kids for ice cream and then go park on the top of the Disneyland parking structure. Open the tailgate, flip the seat over(uh, oh ya, of course install bar) and we just kick back with the best seat in the house. The kids love it.

javadoc · March 2001

Alexv1n: The surge in power you feel is around 3,500rpm. This is where the intake plenums change the air path into the engine for extra oomph, nice feature on the Duratech motor. The 2.0 motor for the vans across the pond is cool too, esp w/ the 5speed tranny, available AWD, trip computers...I think they use lots of smaller motors over there cuz some countries levy heavy taxes on motors over 2.0 litres, but they do get creative solutions and you probably don't hear the Euro MPV/Ody owners crying about 1/4 times, lol.

Maltb, you're lucky to live so close to the Magic Kingdom. We have to schlep for over 5 hours of cattlecar-like airplane travel to get there...but well worth the effort. We want to rent an MPV when we go down (prolly in May) but don't know who does in/near John Wayne. Suggestions?

--Javadoc

bfallis · March 2001

Turns out the ad will still be honored (since it appeared in the paper a day after the supposed 1 day sale.)

And the fact is, using edmunds.com I can see that $3000 off msrp is about $1000 below dealer invoice. Not sure what the catch is. Maybe there is a rebate and they're including that in the 3,000.

Anyway, thanks to edmunds.com I can tell a good deal from an average one. This is a terrific resource.

Blaine

abbanat · March 2001

Javadoc,

The reason you see smaller motors over in Europe is not because of taxes on larger engines but because of taxes on gasoline. I had heard in the '80s that Japan had high tariffs for engines over 2.0 liters but if you can find me some documentation of it, I would be very interested. I have been trying to substantiate that claim to my transportation economics professor for some time but haven't been able to find the information. I just remembered reading it somewhere back in the '80s. Maybe that's why all those original Toyota Camrys and Honda Accords all had such small engines back then.

Also, if we ever buy an MPV the power issue will be important because we have a fairly large tent trailer. High rpm power characteristics and low HP (160 in CA) and torque don't make for good towing. So for most people it's fine, as has been documented here. But for me, I'm not so sure. I'll have to test drive it, though, to know for sure. Otherwise I'll wait for the 3.0 liter. I'm inclined to believe the 3000 lb towing capacity is a little optimistic for decent performance. We have really good towing performance from our 215 hp Intrepid, but on steep hills with a heavy load we do slow down. I can't imagine 160 hp on those same hills.

-Brian

maltb · March 2001

From what I remember hearing, the MPV was designed as a worldwide vehicle and the 2.5L was specifically designated as under 2.5L. I'm not familiar with Japanese tarrifs, but from my understanding this was why the MPV only came with a 2.5L and the 3.0L will only be for export.

javadoc · March 2001

HERE is one (modern) example of taxation based on displacement. The UK, for example has tarifs that vary if your vehicle has a sub-1,400cc disp (15% tax), 1,401-2,000cc disp (22% tax), 2,001+cc is taxed at 32% of the price of the vehicle. Of course, with petrol costing more than $1/litre in the UK, I can understand the need to have the smaller motors. I thought that France had similar taxes...looking for the info I read a couple months ago, hopefully it'll help you w/ your prof. I don't know about Japan's tax-platform tho. It is an interesting subject

Here's another interesting article. There's a chart on page 8, listing members of the EU that tax based on displacement and other parameters, although the data is from 1997.

--Java

juliebean · March 2001

Hi all! I am new here and need some advice. Hubby and I attempting to buy a 2000 LX and negotiations with dealer have stalled a bit. We have our eye on a silver LX with dual air, lev emissions equipment, cargo mat, 3-in-1 audio system, rear bump step plat, roof rack, 4-seasons pkg and lx security pkg. We are currently at 21,790 (incl dest fee of 480), with 0% financing for 48 mos and then all of a sudden the salesguy throws in a "deliv fee" of 395. (WTH?) Did he come down too much, too fast or are we just annoying the heck out of him? Does he not want to get these 2000's off his lot? I don't understand this and know this "deliv fee" is bogus. We were actually going to go for the 21790, but are we being taken for a big old ride? I KNOW the invoice is 23,008, cause he showed it to us. Seems like some of you have gotten LX's for better than this, though. Any advice?

thx!
juliebean

abbanat · March 2001

Java,

Thanks for providing those links, they were very interesting articles. I still think, however, that it is the price of fuel that creates the demand for smaller engines. IMO, the tax on engine size is just a way for the governments to raise more money, kind of like the gas guzzler taxes here. Thanks for the info, though. Let me know if you find any info on Japanese tariffs.

-Brian (sitting on the fence admiring MPVs from a distance)

javadoc · March 2001

I'd send you info offline (so's not to annoy the masses), just drop me a email. I found info about Korea, so I'm getting closer geographically, right? lol

--J

stever · March 2001

The folks over in Government needs to tax some sense into gas-guzzling buyers might be interested in those links. It's a rather "heated" discussion over there, so be forewarned:-)

Steve
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

blacklx · March 2001

We paid $22,439 for a 2000 LX with touring package, GFX, 6-changer CD, moonroof, roof rack, and dual air. We didn't finance through Mazda so we received a $2,750 rebate off of invoice. They did add $100 "dealer profit." So we paid $2,650 under invoice. We purchased ours on Feb. 28th (last day of the month). Supposedly they thought they had it sold for $1,000 more the week before. I'm not sure what kind of rebates are being offered now, if it's still the same ones or not.

I called ahead and told them I was going to be coming in with 2 little kids and didn't want to spend time haggling and asked what it would cost. They actually stuck to their quote and didn't add any extras on.

Good luck negotiating. (I hate doing that, that's why I tried to get a quote over the phone.)

stakingclaim · March 2001

Just purchased MPV LX 2001 today.Came in $2,500 under Sienna.Didn't do quite all research first and believed salesperson/manager's claim of no current rebates/financing incentives.Now see otherwise... Any recourse with respect to misrepresentation, or just chalk up to live and learn?(Double checked with cust. service and do live in applicable region)

wpenner · March 2001

Staking claim--notice the big rebates are on the 2000s, not 2001.

Juliebean. I think you are doing well as the 48 month financing is a great deal, and if you didn't take that you would be paying $1750 more. Not sure what to make of his throwing the delivery fee at the last minute. If it is the destination charge which is usually around $400, then I think that should be included on the sticker and there is no excuse for him "forgetting it" in your up front negotiations. HOw about asking him to split the difference? Ashamed to let haggling get in the way of a good deal on a 2000.

Even if you could get a 2001 for a comparable price, I don't think you could ever get that 48 month financing.

Good luck and hope you enjoy your MPV.

chris1113 · March 2001

Juliebeen, I got hit with that "delivery charge" issue when I bought my 2001 EX last week. Are you on Long Island, or is this a nationwide "scheme"?

I'm pretty sure it's just a sales technique to hit unsuspecting customers after their guard is down. I tried wpenner's idea of splitting the difference, but was rejected.

I weighed wasting/spending another afternoon in another dealership ( with my wife and kids aged 6 months and 5 years! ) and sucked it up and paid $300 out of the $400, and got free mud flaps in return.

Good Luck!

philbeau · March 2001

Took delivery (finally) of my 2001 LX w/ Security and 4 seasons yesterday. A pleasure to drive. From dealer had to take it on Hwy. for 15 miles or so. Found power "issue" to be non existent...ride is smooth and carlike. Noticed slight vibration @ 65mph but, based on posts figure it'll go away/lessen in time. Got home and handed keys over to my wife...bye bye MPV.

Got an aftermarket Cargo net. Opened the pkg and a bag of parts dropped out. Apparently I need to mount this somewhere somehow in the cargo area. Can anyone help? I only took a quick look and it didn't appear to be an easy install. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

philbeau · March 2001

Julibean. I bought a 2001 LX w/ SecurityPkg, 4 seasons and roof rack for $21,907. Includes $1K incentive and $480 destination. Sounds like the deal your getting is 2001 prices for MY 2000. I found Edmunds site to be very informative and their prices to be within a few dollars of the dealers. Use it to your advantage. Also found that most internet sites will give you a deal at 3 to 3.5% over invoice.
Good Luck

wpenner · March 2001

You are paying about what you would pay for a 2001 with no financing, but the 48 month zero percent financing is worth $1750, or was at the time I bought, so I don't see any real benefits to going for a 2001, except perhaps for resale? (is a newer model year worth more than a previous model year on resale, all other things such as mileage being equal?). I guess it all depends on how much value you place on the financing deal.

msgjvh · March 2001

The instructions should be included. You will need to do some drilling and installing some new nuts to the interior but the installation is relatively simple. I wouldn't pay the dealer to do it. After all I was able to install mine and I am certainly not a mechanic

tonymacmud · March 2001

Am Albertan considering a 2001 ES. Hard to find Canadian invoice prices. "No hassle" dealer wants
33, 800. What do you think? What do you think I could get it for?

drew_ · March 2001

Difficult, but not impossible! :-) Try http://www.apa.ca (Automobile Protection Agency) for Canadian invoice prices.

Drew
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philbeau · March 2001

When I got home went searching and found the instructions and yes they are simple. Thanks for the input.

alicec · March 2001

I did a lot of research on the net on the Odyssey and the MPV. Once I saw the 2001 MPV ES in person, the Odyssey was dead for me. My husband and I just picked up our new ES 2 days ago. It has most of the "toys" including the rear seat entertainment package, the moonroof, 4 seasons package, etc. Didn't get the 6 cd changer because my husband wanted the cassette player. We still have a lot of cassette tapes (oops showing my age :-). My only gripes so far, is something I saw in another post - why did they position the vcp in the middle of the floor? Sheeze, my hubby seems to think it can be unbolted easily enough when we want to use the back for cargo. I think it should be either easier to disconnect it, or it should be located elsewhere. I'd love it if the MPV had a fold down table between the front seats like the Odyssey. I did see the post that a catch all container can be obtained through Wal Mart and I plan to look for one. I really liked the idea of the Odyssey's built in Navigation system. But the MPV just provided more for the money in my opinion. I found a GPS Navigation system on the net that connects to a laptop, it cost around $140., that's good enough for me. Here in Connecticut, I found I'd wind up paying $2,000 to 3,000 more for an Odyssey at least. We took the dealer's 4.9% /48 month financing vs 7% we would have gotten elsewhere. I found 0% financing to be available for only a 2 year term on the 2001 though. I did my homework, and found this message board to be a big help. Did I see a post somewhere here stating that an ac inverter for the video games/ or laptops could be purchased at like a Radio Shack? My husband tried asking for these items at Radio Shack and was met with blank stares. Our dealer doesn't have them in stock right now.

maltb · March 2001

RadioShack.com has them for $50, but you may find them cheaper at your local Wal-Mart. Copy the link below and remove the spaces and my comment.

http://www.radioshack.com/product. asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category% (Remove this space) 5Fname=CTLG%5F004%5F013%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=980%2D0876

Why are we limited to 100 characters Drew?

alicec · March 2001

Thank you maltb!

javadoc · March 2001

Drop me an email offline, I have a question regarding something inexcusebly off-topic. '-)

thx!

--javadoc

alicec · March 2001

Don't know Canadian vs US prices. I tend to have trouble here in the North East getting the dealers to be realistic. But the MSRP for our 2001 ES with all of it's "toys" was $30,500. The invoice I believe $27,500. I priced the car here at edmunds.com, carsdirect.com, carpoint.msn.com, autobytel.com, and consumerreports.org. Edmunds gives you both the invoice and true market value for your area, but I think it may be limited to the USA area? I know you enter a zip code for your area. We got our car at $500 below invoice as the final deal with a $500. rebate and Mazda financing. Originally, negotiated even less without their financing, but found we save even more in the long run using their financing. I almost walked away from the deal, but we couldn't find another dealer to beat the price- save for buying at carsdirect.com. The $200 or so saved via that route seemed to be met by the dealer's loaner program, and free oil changes. You can price out all of the options for your car here at the edmunds site and at carsdirect.com. A long answer to say good luck negotiating and hope this helps.

drew_ · March 2001

You may recall me mentioning that my neighbourhood has 3 MPV 4WDs and 1 '00 MPV. Well, here are a few pictures. I don't think they'll mind ;-)

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

P.S. Note that we now have flags for your country of origin next to the username.

javadoc · March 2001

See, I told you that you lived in my neighborhood! That's my house with the monster RV, not. And tell your kids to quit playing ball so late, it keeps me up at night!

Just say that those aren't recent photos, because I see green grass. I look out my windows: ...snowwwwwwww.

I should've put the pix which I put to the "road trip" board on photopoint. I hosted them from my home server, and edmunds' requests had it begging for mercy. thx for the pix!

-javadoc

p.s. I changed my country to the Cayman Islands. A guy can dream, right?

juliebean · March 2001

Thanks to blacklx, wpenner, chris1113, philbeau for all your advice. Hubby went to sign papers for the car tonight after they agreed to drop the bizarre 395 "deliv charge." I had to stay home with 17-month old ,who's sick as a doggie. Hubby calls me from dealership in a panic, telling me they are now refusing to honor the 48-month 0% financing. I give up. I have a bad taste in my mouth about these evil people. I told my husband to leave. I don't know what happened here. Thought we had all details worked out and everything fell through. I'm pretty disgusted.

juliebean

drew_ · March 2001

I took these pictures last night. I wish we had some snow :-p How's Rolf, BTW? Nursed back to health now?

As for the kids, I don't have any ;-) But the family with the white MPV has 4 (3 boys, 1 girl; all under 12), and the family with the black MPV (they also own a '99 ML320 with the M7 3rd row seat option) has 3. They'll be glad to chip in to create some noise ;-).

Photopoint is great, but I don't like their recent GUI add-ons. I prefered the cleaner (and faster) interface prior to the changes.

Drew
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javadoc · March 2001

Trade ya. I'll live in the land of good beer, you can live in the land of (almost) endless snow, although it is breath-taking. Updates on Rolf are found here.

Cheers!

--codavaj...dreaming of a beach on Grand Cayman

brmuda · March 2001

If the factory positioning of the VCP (middle of the floor in rear) is REALLY bugging your hubby, it can be moved.

I personally did not want the VCP mounted there so, I passed on the factory installed system & found local trim shop that installs Rosen ent. systems for all make vehicles. They placed VCP under pass front seat (all that you lose is small cubby box under that seat - it gets removed). I lucked out and got everything (2 sets headphones, TV tuner, antenna & hookups for Nintendo, video camera, etc) for same price as factory installed model.

If your hubby wants it moved, it can be done.

maltb · March 2001

Oddly enough brmuda, the Mazda system is made by Rosen.

Sounds like you got a nice package at a great price, but what is the video camera for?

rman3 · March 2001

Hi all

As I understand, rear entertainment systems are not an option in Canada...are they in the U.S. ? Seem to be. Anyhoo, anyone had them put in aftermarket in Canada...Ottawa area, Toronto area ? Maybe I could drive to US and install ?

I guess one of my options is to talk to my kids more, but let leave that as my fallback ;>)

Rman

rman3 · March 2001

Will likely take MPV plunge this fall...anyone had good/bad experiences with the two dealerships in Ottawa ? Recent MPV purchases ? How did ya do ?

Rman

esprocket · March 2001

For add-on to roof rack, I liked the way Yakima does the job with DoubleCross Towers. (#0110).

These attach to factory rails, but use Yakima round bar across (sturdy). Then you add whatever type roof bike rack you want.

Ultimately, I went with adding a hitch and a swing-away rack. Just a bit pricier however.

Good pedaling!

javadoc · March 2001

I agree with esprocket on the double cross, as one of the best ways to attach to the factory rack, but it does cost more. I believe that setup will cost about $150 plus any attachments (rockymounts, Yak Bike attachments). I went w/ drilling and installing the rails only because I already have RailRider towers from my previous MPV.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the RailRiders will attach to the factory rails? If I were a betting man...

I have an idea. If you have access to a Yakima retailer, take your MPV down there and see if a RailRider tower will go onto your factory rails. If so, you can find them mega-cheap on ebay. Just a crazy thought...crazy enough that it just might work, no? If you don't have access to a Yakima dealer, send me an email, cuz I have another idea also...only a bit crazier, lol. It does NOT involve duct tape however.

The hitch mounted systems are pretty cool too, they swing out of the way and everything. I don't do those only because I don't want to have spendy gear munched, ouch.

--javadoc

stakingclaim · March 2001

Thanx wpenner, et al.With respect to 2001 LX pricing, I was dismayed that dealer told me NO rebates existed at present and that there was no financing terms less than 6%, regardless of terms.Also refused 180 days "same as cash"- which is not near as lucrative as 24 mos. 0% financing. I'm with julibean-- evil people et taste bad. Although honesty not a strong suit-I certainly expected truth to a direct question. Nontheless, I purchased 2001 LX with LX security pkg., rear air, roof rack,et RES for $20,500 (trade-in '92 Previa, high mileage value 2100-4200-previously offered $2000 X 3 Toyota dealers). That's all inclusive pricing--T,T,R, etc. I'm assuming same with all these other prices I'm reading... Looking forward to add. purchases of clutter-catcher and HEADPHONES! Goodbye Toyota (after 18 yrs-twas a tough break)

lfoerster · March 2001

Forgive me if I am jumping in the middle of some threads. . . am really frustrated with Mazda. The MPV is the compromise vehicle between my husband and myself (the other choices are the Ody or the Grand Caravan). At any rate, have tried priceline, at $500 below invoice with no takers. The dealers in our area are stuck at approximately $23500 for a LX equipped with the security package, 4 seasons package, mud guards, and two items I don't feel a need for -- a roof rack and dual A/C. The local dealer offered me $2800 trade for my 1994 Saturn SL2 (good shape, single owner, 76,000 miles) and a $500 rebate. Financing is better through a bank. DC wants to deal. . .what's the scoop with Mazda? Negotiating from a position of arrogance? Or am I missing something?

stever · March 2001

Your dealer sounds a bit high to me offhand. A cursory look at the True Market Value indicates that the MPV should run around $21.6 and your trade at $3100. Maybe you should plug your area and color into the calculator and take a print out to the dealer?

Here's the link:
True Market Value

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

alexv1n · March 2001

Rman,

I have purchased 2000 LX in August 2000. There are 3 MPV dealers in Ottawa: Carling Motors, Bank Street Mazda, and Performance Mazda. I checked the first two. First I went to Carling motors (they are just across the street from my work). I tried to haggle a little bit but they were quite hard going. The salesperson ran to his manager after every word I said and returned with sad face saying that the manager couldn't go with it and they are making virtually no money on me.

I wanted LX with sports package, fog lights, floor mats, cargo mat, cargo net, rear bumper step plate, block heater. I was ready to pay about 28 - 29K before taxes and what they could offer was $30,400 or $29,600 if I don't take their financing.

Then I went to Bank Street Mazda and they agreed to 29K with no hassle or pressure at all (48 month 2.9% financing included). The price was about $3,800 off sticker. I was even a little disappointed because I had read lots of stuff about the games dealers play etc here on Edmunds and was ready to fight but I didn't have a chance :-) So, I just signed papers and didn't even go to Performance Mazda (quite far away from me anyway).

So, I'd suggest you to check Bank Street Mazda (ask Jim Cochrane - he's a nice guy) first and probably go to Performance Mazda as well (I saw a lot of MPVs on the roads with their plate frames as well). They only you can go to Carling if you are not satisfied with your deals...

I hope this helps.

alexv1n · March 2001

Hi again,

The last time I changed oil (Dec 2000) I saw a white 2000 MPV ES on the lot with the RSES installed. So it IS available in Canada. Just ask for it...

lfoerster · March 2001

Dear Steve, et al:

Thanks for the suggestion; have done that previously. Been told by two dealers Edmunds is not reflective of the true costs associated with production, running a business, etc. Also been told Edmunds isn't the one that has to honor the trade-in values, and that your numbers are based on national averages, versus what's happening in the local economy. The more I read, the more convinced I am the MPV is our vehicle, but am unwilling to sell my soul -- or our finances down the road. Any other thoughts out there? Any dealers anyone can recommend in the southwest Michigan, Chicagoland, northern Indiana areas?

Thanks.

Laura

Mazda MPV

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