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Oldsmobile Aurora

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Comments

  • mindseye97mindseye97 Member Posts: 25
    I'm getting in the low 20s for mileage but I'm not driving the '97 much yet as I have a couple months left on a lease (can't wait for spring with the moonroof!). Gisom is right about the four coils and that is why I inquired about Accel coils thinking I may replace all four- or it will be a guessing game unless one of the coils has a big difference in resistance with a meter. Autozone had both Accel and Wells coils (I did not get the part#) and recommended the Bosch wires (Bosch always seems to have decent quality parts).
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    blk97 - very interesting. I'm glad you found one cheap. Does it look like the pictures I posted of my modified box?

    Maybe the 95 had a slight edge over the other years with the free flowing top. When I was at the dyno, one thing I did was run tests on the two different top sections with the bottom section stock. I wanted to know how much of the gains were from the opened up top by itself. It seemed that the modified top portion is mostly responsible for the increase in power between 4600 and 4850/4900 (where the shape of the curve is actually changed). In that range, I think you can find +10 HP and +10 torque when you add in the K&N.

    I know I keep repeating it, but I can't wait for the northstar induction from x-m-s. I think eliminating that hard 90 out of the box will be a better deal.

    I'm really sorry about what ended up being a hokey test of the MAF some time back. I do have to go back someday. But so far I can say I really like the thing. No complaints and it seems to be be doing something (could be in my head though).
  • s2261s2261 Member Posts: 14
    With over 70k on my '97 the ride is getting loose. I've bounced the car from each corner and it seems to cycle too much all around. What are some brands to look at/stay away from? AC Delco seems very pricey to me.
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Member Posts: 1,277
    My daily commute is just under 15 miles, and takes me about 30-40 minutes. When I used to drive my car conservatively, I got 20-21 mpg on this commute. Now that I drive the car a bit more aggressively/enjoyably I get about 18-19 mpg. I hardly ever drive on 20+ mile highway trips, but when I do it bumps my mileage up to about 20-22 mpg. I suppose I get about 26-27 mpg on these stints. I think I could probably get 27+ out of the car on the highway if I tried (I once got 28.5 mpg on a 350 mile, 65+ mph trip in my Corvette).
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Driving to and from work (about 6 miles one way-city) I get about 20, more in summer, less in winter. On long highway trips I get between 25 and 30, depending on whether there is a headwind or tailwind and how fast I am going. On a trip to California and back (about 5000 miles) I averaged 29 MPG by driving 70 MPH or less. At times on that trip, the computer said 30 MPG average. But when cruising at 75 to 80 MPH, the MPG is 26-27.

    Just a side note, but I keep track of all the gas I put into the tank, and I find that about 0.75 gallons (more or less) per tank go through the emmissions trap (charcoal canister) instead of the fuel injectors.
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    You know you are obcessed with your CAR when you . .

    " keep track of all the gas you put into the tank, and find that about 0.75 gallons (more or less) per tank go through the emmissions trap (charcoal canister) instead of the fuel injectors."
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    I put the KYB shocks/struts in the front of the car and the GM replacement shocks in the back because of the load leveling feature.

    I have been told that you can UPGRADE the shocks by replacing them with the shocks that would go on the Caddie. The Caddie suspension is suppose to be tighter.
  • larryfllarryfl Member Posts: 214
    S2261 - I just put Monroe SensiTracs on all four corners of my '95 at 70K miles (last month). They are a lot firmer and I feel most bumps at low speed, but that's what I wanted. I do a lot of highway driving and they ride great at 80 - plus or minus.
  • blk97aurorablk97aurora Member Posts: 573
    larryfl,

    Thanks for the info on Monroe SensiTracs. Do the rears maintain the load-leveling function?

    Henry,

    I've read that too about Caddy shocks, but never seen any details such as part numbers.
  • blk97aurorablk97aurora Member Posts: 573
    fjk57702,

    The 0.75 gallon difference you note -- how do you determine that? I'm asking to understand -- not to challenge your statement. On my '97 I have observed that fill-ups consistently take more gallons than the DIC shows as used. The amount varies over a range of 1% to 10%; 0.75 gal is in that range. I have thought that either the gas stations' pumps are not calibrated properly or that my Aurora's computer is off. So I wonder if what I have observed is the same phenomenon you mention.

    Henri,

    I guess I've just confirmed myself to be one of the "obsessed."
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    It's not exactly 0.75 gallons. I assume that the filling station pumps are accurate (as required and checked by law). So I have kept track of the gallons pumped into the tank and also keep track of what the computer says went thru the fuel injectors. We do know that the charcoal canister captures some fuel or they would not have mandated this device years ago. What I actually find is that there is a greater amount in summer and less in winter. One would expect this.

    I have kept track of all the fuel on most of my cars, so I know that the Aurora is getting on average about a quarter of a mile to the gallon better mileage than the 95 Riviera did (but that may be due to statistical fluctuations and is on fewer miles).

    Since some fuel does bypass the computer, the computers MPG is higher than actual. This amounts to about 1 MPG or so.
  • jwadlejwadle Member Posts: 12
    How much did you pay for the sensatrac struts?? I have been trying to get these for a bout a year and places quote me about 600.00 installed.. if they can get the parts
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    Fjk - why couldn't the computer be adjusted (at the factory) to compensate for what you are seeing/noting?
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Well the amount varies with temperature. What is happening is that there is a presure relief valve on gas tank that leads to the charcoal canister. If you are driving, gasoline is sloshing around in the tank and when its nearly full, some liquid fuel may go thru the valve if it releases pressure. I think that most of the liquid is trapped and sent back to the tank, but there is some variation in how much goes thru the canister.

    The long term average mileage seems to be some weighted average too. I note that if I make a short highway trip, the average bounces up quite a bit. Then it goes back down after city driving for a while. My guess is that the long term average is on about 30 to 50 gallons, but I have not gone on a long trip recently. I know that a trip that uses about 15 gallons does not bring the average up to what a trip average should be.

    I do know that the average is not a simple average. The simple average would be the distance traveled divided by the fuel used and those numbers are different than the average MPG the computer has.
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    These two DIC figures are based oin the same math. Early in my ownership of the car, I called 1-800-442-olds and asked: How does the computer computer the miles till empty?

    This question was never answered becuase they did not know the mwth behind the numbers.

    THIS IS KIND OF THE HOLY GRALL for aurora owners. The formulas used by the DIC display to calculate the numbers.
    GOOD LUCK!
    KA-PLAH!
  • s2261s2261 Member Posts: 14
    Thanks for the info on the shocks. I plan on replacing them myself. I will price them and let you know how it worked out.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    The range is based on you average mileage on the last few tenths of a gallon. It changes fairly rapidly if you sit a stop light very long. And it jumps up after a short highway drive. And the number of gallons that the computer thinks is left in the tank.

    The long term average MPG could be done a number of ways. It could be some weighted average over the last 50 gallons used or it could keep track of short, medium and long (since the last reset) distances and fuel used to compute the average.

    One thing I know is that to get an accurate long trip reading, reset it just as you are starting the trip.
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    FJK57702 - Your estmates of how the computer works is probably close to the actual way it works.

    However, we still do not have the exact formula. Oldsmobile seems to guard the formula for the DIC with same tenacity as the owners of the formula for COKE and Kentucky Fried Chicken.

    Maybe its a matter of National Security?
  • jephjephjephjeph Member Posts: 17
    Since the rainy season has started, I was curious as to the fording depth of my 2002 Aurora.
    Here is Oldsmobile's Response:

    GM does not publish fording depth information on vehicles except for the H2 Hummer. We recommend
    that you avoid fording practices as much as possible, primarily because of the deleterious effect of
    water on the brake pads and rotors.

    Anyone have a better idea?

    I mean, it's clearly more than 1", but probably less than 2'.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Offhand I'm not sure, but the airintake for the engine is from below on the drivers side and so if you get into deep water you could pull water into the engine (this is not a good idea). I would not try going thru water that is more than 6 inches deep. Water that deep can hide a lot of stuff, so even that would be risky.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    The trip computer looks almost like the one that was available on the late 70's Seville. Olds may have just stole it from Cadillac and perhaps whoever programmed it back then is long gone.
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    I am waiting for GARNES to weight in on this. If any body on this board is to have an answer for what the algorithem is for the DIC, it will be him - Mr. Math (a.k.a. Sir Technical).
  • musclecar97musclecar97 Member Posts: 111
    Henri-lol, your right, but Garnes we do appreciate the work and info.

    Fording- The closest I came to Fording in my Aurora was the time the engine stalled coming off the Freeway...acted just like my old Ford Aerostar...dadumdumpt.
  • aurora5000aurora5000 Member Posts: 168
    Does anyone know if:
    If you unplug your battery for the 30 minutes, reset the computers systems, does it reset the DIC also or is it on a seperate battery backup?

    How do you know that your complete system has been reset?

    Thanks
  • aurora5000aurora5000 Member Posts: 168
    What do you folks recommend for Aurora Scan Tool?
    More interested in a Palm type but unsure what kind and what software. Does anyone sell a "All in one" package?

    Thanks
  • mindseye97mindseye97 Member Posts: 25
    Hey guys. Just an update on my '97 surging issue. Went ahead and put Bosch plugs, wires and new coils on and all is well (along w/K&N filter). Figured on just spending the extra $20/ea on the other three coils and not worry about replacing the wrong one or having the remaining ones go bad later. I'm pretty sure it was one of the coils. Hope I don't have to tear into the rear of the engine anyime again soon! Kind of a pain removing/replacing the stuff on the firewall. After two weeks of ownership I can say however I am glad I made the purchase. Smooth ride, good handling, great looks and best of all you punch this thing at 60 mph and it gets up and goes!
  • musclecar97musclecar97 Member Posts: 111
    mindseye - What type of Bosh plugs did you put in? Also where did you get them and what was the total cost of plugs, wires, and coils?

    Sounds like you got a nice '97. What color and how many miles?
  • mindseye97mindseye97 Member Posts: 25
    musclecar97- I got all the parts from Autozone, an autoparts store chain in the Midwest (elsewhere also?). The plugs were the Bosch single tip platinum which are $2/ea. The double tip are $4 and the quad tips are $6. But you know what? The spark only goes to one electrode at a time anyway so why pay the premium? The wires were about $70 and the coils about $86 for all four so that makes the total around $172. Of course, I dropped $70+ on the K&N filter.

    The car is silver (grey interior) with chrome wheels and the moonroof and autobahn package. It had 59,500 and I picked it up for $11K. That may seem a grand or so high but everything works and it has been garage kept and most of the other ones around here for sale were white or black which don't work for me (our sub is on a dirt road).
  • musclecar97musclecar97 Member Posts: 111
    Sounds like you've got a nice one and the price seems good to me, especially since everything works. I paid $14,000 for my 97 eight months ago and it had 69,000 miles on it. That price did include a 3year 40,000mile warranty. Western cars are more expensive mainly because we have no humidity which means no rust.

    Thanks for the info. on the plugs and such, I'll probably be doing mine this summer. I'm also wondering when to replace the battery.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    Well, I don't really have any major thoughts on the on board computer - I'd guess that the long term avg. mileage is just the total miles driven divided by the total fuel used. And the fuel range thing seems to factor fuel remaining with the mileage from the most recent tenth/mile or two. I haven't given it much thought other than that. I'll just defer to what the other guys have said.

    As for Sir Technical, well I gotta hand that distinction to guys like Fjk, Rjs, Blk97, Hardesty, and lots of others - some of whom have posted less frequently but seemed to have designed the darn Northstar. When they start talking about intake runners (if I remember that right)and compression waves and the like - that's pretty technical stuff not familiar to me. And then there seems to be a lot here that are not afraid to work on the Aurora - that's impressive too.

    I always wish I had 3D moving illustrations for discussions like that.

    Aurora 5000 - when I unplugged the battery, I had to reset the date. I don't think other stuff like the oil life was affected, I'm not 100% sure on that, but pretty sure. According to Granatelli Motor Sports - they say 30 minutes, but a lot of people just say to leave it unplugged over night and there is no question about it. When you do this, and start it up for the first time, tell me if the flipping AC comes on - that's kind of weird.

    I'm sure some of the other techno-wizards here know more specifics, but I think the OBD-2 computer tracks the operation of the engine and "learns" driving/operating characteristics. Therefore it is recommended to disconnect the battery for a period of time to start from scratch with the computer with something like a recalibrated MAF. Supposedly if you do not, the computer will be averaging data from the original unit with the new unit and the gains will not be as effective. I really don't know anything specific about that OBD 2 - just generalities like that.

    Perhaps it's all a bunch of BS, but unplugging the battery over night is easy and doesn't hurt anything.

    RJS - could you post the name and number of the place you got your K&N at again??? I think you got yours for about $30 less than less fortunate people like me and mindseye.
  • kemo444kemo444 Member Posts: 15
    i have an Innova 3100 digital OBDII reader. it cost $169 at Auto barn.com . It is a great tool. It has already saved me hundreds of dollars. The dealer charges up tp $100 just to read the code and tell you what the engine light is on for. This code reader shows all GM specific and generic codes and will reset the check engine light. well worth the money that it cost. I think JC Whitney carries a couple of scan tools also. I would highly recommend the Innova 3100.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    kemo444 - that sounds cool. Thanks. I think I'll look into that too.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Well I looked back thru my log book and the average MPG is now about 19.3 (I think) but the total gallons used is 220.4 and I traveled something like 4800 miles or so. Anyway the average MPG based on the fuel used is 22 MPG. Now looking at the last tankfull, I got less than 19, and looking at the last three tankfulls, it was about 20. But the last two tankfulls (28 gallons) averaged about 19.x. So this sugguests the computers average MPG is based on the last 30 or so gallons. However, when I drive for a short (about 20+ miles) on the highway, getting about 28-30 MPG, the average MPG bumps up by .5 MPG and then after returning home, its up by something close to 1 MPG. This suggests that the average MPG is some weighted average of short and long term MPG.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    I am not an engineer (I have a masters degree in physics). But I became aware that intake manifolds could be tuned in the early '60's when I read a test report in one of the car magazines on the 1961 Chysler 300G. The 300G had the 413 cubic inch engine with 30 inch ram tubes for the manifold. Two 4 barrel carborators were mounted on oposite sides of the engine bay with the ram tubes leading to the oposite bank of cylinders.

    The new 7-series BMW has a continuously variable intake manifold length, varying from 20+ inches to 8 inches (not sure about exact lengths offhand). Anyway, our library has a (simple) book on engine design, which I read through, and a long manifold length (30 inches) is good for lowend torque, while a short (7-8 inches) is good for highend (6000 RPMs) torque. And 15 inches is good for the 3-4 thousand RPM range.

    Anyway, if you can vary valve timing and intake manifold lengths (continuously varying is expensive), torque can be optimized at both low and high engine speeds. All that is really needed is to have two or three intake manifold lengths to make a big difference, which is easily done with a port in the tube. It does add cost though.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    fjk - what's the name of the book? Did it have diagrams to illustrate these things? That does sound interesting.

    I'm a civil engineer (not a physicist) and deal with fluid flow all the time so I guess that's my reason for being preoccupied with the air flow characteristics on the intake and exhaust. There is a heck of a difference between incompressible water and compressible air, but the basics of eliminating the "losses" still seem to apply. In addition, modifying the intake or exhaust is easy stuff and on my level of car work.

    Thanks for the info.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    F=ma. I remember a physics teacher joking that that's all you need to know. How I wished it was true.
  • zinc1zinc1 Member Posts: 133
    If this hasn't been mentioned here yet: http://www.media.gm.com/news/releases/020308_aurora.html
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    garnes: the books title is: Engines An Introduction by John L. Lumley, Cambridge University Press, 1999

    The book has a lot of diagrams, graphs and equations (easy equations).

    E = mc^2 is another good equation.

    zinc1: I had seen that, but I'm not sure who gave the award and what it means.
  • s2261s2261 Member Posts: 14
    I stopped at the parts store today to order my shocks/struts. The price for the Struts is 85.00/Each. The rears are a kit for 118.00 + 10.00 for new mounting rubber. They are Monroe Sensatrac's. Anyone know of anything I should watch out for? I'll be doing the work this weekend.
  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    Fjk - thanks. I have to check that book out.

    I remember figuring some scenarios for time dilation (for a paper in astronomy)using the formula for figuring that out based on your speed. It was a simple formula (my favorite kind) - that was an interesting excercise.

    So, you have to help us now that you have exposed your physics background. How much is time distorted when doing 120 in you Aurora for an hour (assuming you don't get caught)? Yeah, I know the answer is essentially zero, so maybe I should ask how long would you have to drive at 120 in your Aurora to distort 1 second? Probably something like 100,000 years - maybe millions. Oh well. Fill us in on the answer if you still have that formula handy. Some of may want to try this out.

    I'm losing it. Sorry.

    Zinc - welcome back - thanks, I've not seen that. Very cool. I'm sorry it wasn't the car of the decade for you. I wonder what HENRY thinks about that. It's certainly been the car of the century for his warranty company.
  • musclecar97musclecar97 Member Posts: 111
    HOW does he find this stuff????
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    Your answer to the DIC question was a bit of a disappointment. I expected to see a quadratic equation posted .
  • HenryHenry Member Posts: 1,106
    even after the "evil temptress" is gone.
    YOU still can not stay away.

    Should we start a pool on how long it will take Zinc to buy another Aurora???
  • aurora5000aurora5000 Member Posts: 168
    Does anyone have any experience with the Auterra Software for OBD II?

    Will let you know about the A/C switch when I power down.

    Went to the Dealers Annual Car show here in the city. On Sat. March 9, I saw the small poster with the info. about the Aurora as "Car of the Decade". The lady at the Olds booth said they just got the info. in on Fri. from GM.

    The neatest thing (I thought)at the Car Show was a view of the Northstar engine display at the Cad booth. It was cut up and chromed to show almost all of the engine parts. I was really impressed with the engine up close. I suggest to all if the show comes to your town, try to make it... for me that alone is worth the trip.

    Also...2001 and 2002 differences...
    1)Chrome exhaust tips?
    2)Trunk lid around liscense plate has a designed line of some sort on back side of trunk?
    3) Navigation radio?
    4) Attachments for Child seat in back seat?
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Member Posts: 1,277
    You don't check for a few days and you get 28 new messages...

    Garnes, I got my K&N from Summit Racing at www.summitracing.com but I haven't gotten one for my Aurora yet. I bought a lot of parts from them for my Corvette (which I put a link to from my Aurora page) and they always had the best prices. They carry a whole lot of parts too.
  • hardestyhardesty Member Posts: 166
    Having owned both, I'll give it my best shot.

    1. Chrome exhaust tips (yes)
    2. The trunk lid thing is the difference between the 3.5 and 4.0 (steel with insert vs. aluminum smooth) not a 2001 vs. 2002 thing
    3. Navigation radio (not available with Bose)
    4 LATCH anchors at all 3 rear seating positions
    5. 2002 does not have strange floppy plastic in trunk (if you have a 2001, you know what I mean)
    6. Modified glove box interior (make up for quick fix, early 2001s sucked papers out of box into A/C)
    7. Slight differences in cup holders and the center dash cubby.
    8. Better mileage rating for 2002 4.0, and while unpublished, more power across the revs (I think better programming is the cause, car just seems that little bit smoother)

    Others that I have missed, some are running changes (not strictly model year differences). Only about one more year of production left.
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Member Posts: 1,277
    The inside of the trunk is also different in that the 2002 now has the glowing release handle for those people that find themselves closed in the trunk.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    This webpage has equations:

    http://www.bartleby.com/173/11.html


    The v/c factor squared is 10^-14 and my calculator rounds off to 1. So we have to approximate the square root of 1 + small value. Actually we want the square root of 1 + small value squared. I think the answer is 3.5 billion years, but I may be off by a factor of two or perhaps more? Anyway this is assuming that you don't stop for gas!

    Okay, the square root of 1 + delta, where delta is small is about 1/2 delta, so the answer is a bit over 7 billion years. I think that we can neglect relativity corrections. The speed of light is near 186,000 miles per second, so once you are near 1% or more of the speed of light, then things are a bit different.

  • garnesgarnes Member Posts: 950
    Oh man - Cark Sagan in an Aurora. What a concept. I think he actually passed away not to long ago. I'll bet he had an Aurora. Even the name is perfect for him - and the engine name!

    Well it's a good thing the seats are fat and comfy if I'll be cruising that long.

    Fjk, your leaving me light years behind on this.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    I goofed. I computed the time it takes to get one whole hour difference, so the time for 1 second is 1/3600 or about 2 million years. So your guess of millions was not so far off.
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