Oldsmobile Aurora

95mushroom · March 2003

What is the order for the ignition coil sequence for the spark plug wires? I know the firing order is 1 2 7 3 4 5 6 8 . But what order do I plug the wires into the coils? Left to right? Right to left? Or is the order various? I just got new wires and screwed up the order

Sorry for rushing but I need the order ASAP
Thanks
Shawn

blk97aurora · March 2003

Shawn,

Looking at the coils from the front of my Aurora, the spark plug order is:
6 7 4 1 8 3 2 5

These numbers are printed on the top of the coils on my '97. Replacement coils do not have the numbers.

Good luck.

sinatra2 · March 2003

I concur with blk97aurora.

as read from the left to right

blk97aurora · March 2003

I received the '96 Eldo intake manifold, throttle body, injectors, fuel rail, etc. from my eBay purchase. I'm extremely pleased with what I got -- very clean. The throttle body carries the exact ID number as my '97 Aurora, so I'll be able to use it for core for the RSM 80mm upgrade.

Greg, I also got the mounting plate; I'll probably enlarge it myself (from 78mm to 80mm). I went a bit crazy and ordered two of these from my favorite Olds dealer; they're only $10 each discounted.

My initial investigation of the intake manifold is that there is not much that can be done to increase airflow. There are some small ridges -- casting parting lines I think -- that maybe could be smoothed out. But physical access to all but the first one will be very difficult.

Awhile back I suggested bypassing the throttle-body coolant lines during warm weather to achieve higher performance. Now that I understand the plumbing, this is much easier done than I expected. The coolant inlet to the throttle body is a ~5/16" hose that comes from the water pump next to the outlet that goes to the top of the radiator. The coolant flows through and heats the throttle body, then exits to the surge tank, again with a ~5/16" (I haven't taken one off to measure it exactly yet) hose. It will be very easy to run a hose straight from the water pump outlet to the surge tank inlet; probably be a good idea to cap off the throttle body circuit to prevent corrosion.

This stock connection surprised me as I had considered the surge tank as pretty much the same as the old coolant recovery tanks. But the surge tank has the pressurized cap that used to sit on top of the radiator, and it looks like the arrangement with the throttle-body coolant path ensures a constant flow of coolant through the surge tank.

mike98c · March 2003

I figured that would be a good job for this weekend, i borrowed a dremel from work yesterday to scope things out with. I finished redying the seatbelts yesterday. I redid the passenger seat this last fall, and did the bolster where you slide into the car on the drivers seat today. It looks so good I think I will do a (arylic and poly) wash to the rest of the seat tommorow.

800wattaurora · March 2003

Coils-I also agree, just did them last week. Since the new packs didn't have the numbers on them, I scratched them in with a nail. In prevention to not get confused on what order to put them on, I re-numbered in pencil 1-8 left to right on packs and wire boots.

blk97aurora-Congrats on your ebay purchase! The TB #'s matching is great. I've been thinking about just boreing out the mounting plate myself too, little saturday project. What where you refuring to about getting two at $10? Mounting plates? I'll buy the extra! Congrats again, you'll enjoy the extra ponies from all of this. I know I do. IF you don't mind me asking, what was your final bid for everything of the 96'eldo?

garnes · March 2003

Way to go.

I'd send the TB and get it done. Then, if you do the plenum yourself, you can hold it up to the TB (I' use the bolts to for an exact fit) to see how you are doing. It sure seems like a messy job though. RSM will do it for $100. I then sanded mine with a sanding sponge to make it smoother.

Idea - you can cut yourself an 80mm gauge out of something (small stick of wood or metal) or maybe an actual disk. I guess nice thick construction paper would even work. Slide that into the plenum to catch any high spots that need more work.

I kind of wonder about the coolant through the TB. The air is there for such a small fraction of a second, I can't see that it matters one way or the other. I can't see the air being heated much. I think disconnecting it would be an improvement though. I'll bet it would run fine in the winter as well.

Thanks for the manifold info!

mike98c · March 2003

I don't think the coolant flowing through the throttle body is for heating the air itself. I think that it's there to prevent throttle body icing which can occur from the venturi effect of moist air being squeezed down at high velocity and the being allowed to expand (just like a air conditioner works)which supercools the air and allows the moisture to condense out and freeze onto the walls of the throttle body. If when you reroute the hose you find the car running slower and slower as you drive, Icing may be choking the bore. This is more likely when its cool and humid outside.

garnes · March 2003

Squeezing down and expanding all at the same time? Just goofin' I know what you mean. At the higher velocity, you get a pressure drop, but I doubt it's enough to do much. What I really don't get is that as everything under the hood get's pretty darn hot to the touch or a least warm, why wouldn't the TB? Even without the coolant thing, I'd suspect it would be too hot to touch after just a short drive. I just don't see any reason for it. Maybe it's actually supposed to cool the TB. Basically - it's an oven under the hood.

mike98c · March 2003

I agree it would be unlikely and I'd still go for it. I did have a problem like that when I dicsconnected the coolant hose from the base of the old fury lll I purchased. It had been sitting under a tarp for 12 years! You could disconnect the heat riser tube from the exhaust manifold or the coolant hose from the base of the carb, you just couldn't do both at the same time. The icing would only be a problem for the first 30min. and it wouldn't cause problems (or maybe build up) untill about ten minutes into the drive. If you sat for another 5 minutes with the engine off, it would melt and wouldn't happen again that day. big iron blocks hold heat a long time.

blk97aurora · March 2003

800watt,

Yes, theb $10 part I referred to is the F-SPACER (that's what the parts catalog lists it as). I haven't received my parts (I ordered gaskets, too) yet from my Olds dealer -- they're still on backorder. I decided to buy the extra spacer just in case I screw up enlarging one from 78mm to 80mm. I'll keep you in mind.

I went for the $150 buy-it-now because I did not want to get into a bidding war. I think that wasn't bad for all I received since a TB by itself went for $93 a few days before.

blk97aurora · March 2003

Greg,

I disagree with you about enlarging the TB spacer from 78mm to 80mm being a messy job. The way I see it, there is only 1 silly mm to remove from the inner circumference of the spacer. The longitudinal distance is also small since the spacer opens up to greater than 80mm shortly downstream from the TB gasket. Once I try it, I may change my mind and tell you I should have paid $100 to RSM. I'll let you know.

blk97aurora · March 2003

mike98c and garnes,

I believe that the TB coolant line is there to warm the inlet air when the engine is cold to improve driveability. It is also there to prevent icing as described. The unwanted side-effect is unneeded heating of inlet air after the engine is up to operating temperature. The old exhaust manifold heaters had a mechanism to turn them off after things warmed up. Our TB coolant line has no such mechanism.

It's true that the air flows through quickly. But I think it is not accurate to believe it will not absorb heat. After all, that's the way radiators, a/c condensers, heater cores, and turbocharger heat exchangers work; admittedly, they have more surface area for heat transfer.

800wattaurora · March 2003

BLk97-That's a good buy in my book, $150 isn't bad at all, less than the core charge. So you got 2 new F-spacers, was there one on the eldo stuff too? How much are the new? Got the part number? I'll call my dealer tomarrow. I take it you want to keep your original. I did too. Don't know why though, car runs great with it. Maybe I'll swap back to stock before I sell it. Depends, might try to sell car as is with all performance mods and 800watt stereo. If it goes to a dealer, take EVERYTHING out and sell it on ebay, except the stereo. Although I wouldn't mind starting the mego stereo all over again with some PPI amps.

TB-By-Bass I totally agree that under our hoods is an oven. Although the TB dosen't get too hot to touch, Greg and I dynoed than swaped them. It was pretty warm though. The incoming air flowing through at fractions of a second has to be warming the air some. Just like radiators/turbos and everything else blk97 said. I don't see any problems with the by-pass during warm weather. I'll rig something. It's very common mod for many tuners.

fjk57702 · March 2003

Carburetor icing was a result of the gasoline evapaorating which takes heat out of the air. Just expanding the air will cool it and there could be some icing, but the conditions would have to be just right. Most likely the heating is to reduce emissions.

fjk57702 · March 2003

Now that I have thought about this more, icing is caused by cooling the passage ways down - in the carburetor the evaporating gas would cool the carburetor down and ice would form on the passage way because it is cold. The throttle body could cool enough to do this too, but its a lot harder because there is not any additional cooling from evaporating gas. My guess is that the heating is maximum at idle when the incoming air flows close to the outer sides of the passage way.

garnes · March 2003

I figured at 200 cfm, the air would travel through an 80mm TB at about 42 mph. That translates to a total time in the TB of about .005 seconds. That's not much. Also, I doubt there is much area to volume at all, therefore no radiator effect. I think 200 cfm is somewhere between 2000 and 3000 rpm. I think I figured some time back 5000 rpm being around 350 of 400 cfm. I hope the math is right.

Draw your own conclusions.

garnes · March 2003

My spacer was 78 on both ends. RSM bored the whole thing. But yeah, 1 mm all the way around is not much. It seems like a job where it might be hard to make it smooth. Even RSM's spacer bore wasn't exactly like the machined TB work. I'd probably end up making it full of divots and bumps. Also, it was really important to me for the exit of the spacer to be really true at 80 for a nice even match to the manifold - and RSM hit it perfect. No lip or bump. It was a perfect match with the manifold. I think they did machine bore the first 1/4 inch into the spacer on both ends, and then finished the 95% remaining in the middle by hand.

mike98c · March 2003

I do agree that it is unlikely except under perfect (imperfect) conditions. It's certainly worth a try, plus this is such a quick change that it would be easy to measure any significant change in power curves from this alteration. Gas evaporation certainly changes the point that water condensation occurs although it is possible over a narrow range without introducing a solvent with a low evap. point

fjk57702 · March 2003

The thermodynamics are (I think) that the throttle body will get colder than the incoming air because of expansion beyond the throttle body entrance which cools the throttle body. So the throttle body is colder than the incoming air. If the air is near or below freezing and its raining or foggy, then ice will form on the throttle body because the air is saturated with water. This may happen a lot more than you think. The expansion cooling effect is most at idle with the throttle closed.

mike98c · March 2003

Thats pretty close to how my old text book from physics class describes the thermodynamics. Now if I could find the one I was actually looking for a couple monthes ago on fluid dynamics.

rjs200240 · March 2003

Greg, yeah I did the quick math the other day just to see and 5600 rpm is like 350 cfm. 6400 was like 400 cfm. I was checking out Eaton's website and they had info about how much air their S/C's pulled in. So I just got curious about what sized blower would work on the 4.0. I think a factory blower on the 4.0 would be pretty sweet. I imagine power in the neighborhood of 285-300 with torque around 300+ (with plenty down low) would be pretty driveable and reliable, and get better economy than an STS. I think the 4T80-E is only rated to like 310 or 315 lb-ft, though.

fjk57702 · March 2003

I find that my SLS (which has a 3.11:1 axle ratio) does no worse and possibly better than the Aurora for fuel consumption. Future comparisions will not work because I moved and now I have a different route to work.

rjs200240 · March 2003

Yeah, but you've got the 3.11. I don't believe for a second that the STS gets the same mileage as the SLS, nor as the Aurora. I think they just didn't have to rerate it with the EPA, which is actually fairly common for engines of the same size in the same model.

garnes · March 2003

Your thermo discussion is nice - for a system unaffected by anything else, but I still say it's an oven in there. There is heat coming of the engine - lots of it. Pop the hood and touch the TB. It's hot. I think your theories are all nice, but with all that heat surrounding things we may be trying to analyze a fart in a windstorm.

fjk57702 · March 2003

garnes: I agree that the cooling is probably not a big deal and the engine heat should keep things warm. With carburetors, the gas wets the metal and evaporates which adds a lot of extra cooling which is what causes enough cooling for ice.

rjs200240: I agree the STS should eat more gas. My old Aurora had the 3.48:1 axle and could get near 30 on long highway trips. The SLS is now averaging about 23.5 but I now live out of town and to and from work is nearly all highway.

mike98c · March 2003

I should have made it clearer. i'm refering to the first miles after startup when the engine block hasn't had time to heatsoak the throttle body. The coolant however warms up very quickly. Whatever the reason for the coolant flow through the throttle body it's probably engineered for worst possible case scenario. A nice change from the old G.M. practice of underengineering for the best scenario and let the customer find the problem for G.M. to fix!

rjs200240 · March 2003

I agree with you that the coolant bypass is probably fine, although I wonder if it really gives any gain. But just to nitpick a tad, you said if you feel the TB it is plenty hot, but it also has 200 degree coolant running through it. Without the coolant, it doesn't actually touch any other metal (the intake is polymer and probably not a strong heat conductor). But I'd imagine the radiant heat would still warm it up a bit. Just had to nitpick.

fjk57702 · March 2003

With no heat from the coolant, the throttle body would be near the incoming air temperature. I think the heating is done mainly for reducing emissions and probably at idle.

mike98c · March 2003

www.delphi.com/pdf/eandepdfs/ThrottleBodies-MPFI.pdf This is a aftermarket multiport body with explanation for the various hookups so it may not be directly applicable tp the northstar but I thouight it was still interesting as it is an air meter only.

fjk57702 · March 2003

It does say that the coolant heat reduces icing but seems to say that icing could still be a problem. Actually, there could be icing in the manifold itself if it were cold enough.

ffreys · March 2003

Hi everyone...just purchased a 95 with autobahn package?...door sticker says V rated tires....73,500 miles from original owner......paid $7000......car is mint and runs great....color is champagne...has had a FPR..water pump...new computer?...done under warranty by previous owner....I know this because the rear seat belts wouldn't retract and I read a recall notice for them...the dealer replaced them for free and gave me a maintence history of the vehicle...said it was owned by an older couple and that it was a "good one"...so now I am drawing on all of your vast wealth of knowledge on what to do next.....IE:..preventive maintence..performance mods.....etc....any and all suggestions are appreciated.......have about $5000...

rjs200240 · March 2003

I'm sure you will enjoy your car. Preventive maintenance is all pretty much common sense with the Aurora. If you change your own oil, do some searching here for how to read the dipstick. It seems the '95s were particularly tricky. The car only takes 7.5 quarts of oil, so that is all you should put in regardless of how the stick reads.

There is a mods board which isn't too full and should be good reading (couple hundred posts vs the thousands here). Welcome!

hammen2 · March 2003

They're all done.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/olds29_20030329.htm

garnes · March 2003

Yep, go to the mods discussion.

Also, you can go to www.caddyinfo.com

They posted some stuff I've done on my 98 Aurora regarding airbox mods and throttle body work. It includes pictures and dyno graphs too. Several guys here have made some good modifications.

rjs200240 · March 2003

Thanks for the link Hammen... What a shame there will be no more new Auroras...

I was washing my car today when one of the neighbors stopped by (to ask if I washed cars for a living as I'm always doing it). She commented on how nice my car looked and then said "is that a Toyota Aurora?". I told her it wasn't but to try to guess who made it. She guessed Acura next, then Infiniti. She was a bit surprised when I mentioned it was an Oldsmobile. It's a real shame most people wouldn't even know where to go to buy one if they were interested in it... I know most of the Olds models aren't going to be passed on to other lineups, and here's to hoping their marketing isn't passed on to anyone inside GM either...

ffreys · March 2003

just a little more info to add to my earlier post #4177......I am 41....recovering from ACL replacement surgery...and now the bad part.....live in sunny southern California......

bryanttarvin · March 2003

I have a question for you HAMMEN2(or anyone else who would like to answer).

How can GM be finished with the buildout of the Aurora when they specifically say on the OLDS website that they will build the last ones in MAY 2003? According to the article, they have finished the buildout 2 months early. Also, from what I have seen on the OLDS website, they did not do that with the Intrigue. They built the last one on June (14) 2002 as they said.

The reason I question this is because I am working on purchasing a Collector's Edition and wanted to order one of the last few if possible. I have a deposit down with a dealer for one and they have said nothing about this. Basically, I am questioning the validity of the article.

If it is true, I am going to be one highly ticked off customer!!!

Thanks for any insight anyone can give about this to alleviate my fears and anger.

B.T.

hammen2 · March 2003

I think Olds' web site is inaccurate, and that the Orion plant is done with the Final 500. I was checking out the web site of the dealership where my car was delivered to its original owner (Suburban Olds in Troy, MI - http://www.suburbanolds.com ), and they clain to have 2 Final 500 Auroras in their inventory (Dark Cherry paint - click on More Info to get the package details).

Remember, it can take upwards of a month for a car to make it from a factory to the dealership (though, in the above case, it's only an hour or so drive). I would go to the dealership where you placed your deposit and ask them to put in writing that they're getting a Final 500, and their estimated delivery date. They may want you to write up a sales contract. If they can't/won't give you this info, I'd suggest dealing with a different dealership. Where are you located? You might call Olds to see if they can refer you to a dealership that will get one of the 500's (I'm presuming that only a handful of Olds dealers will)...

Hope this helps,

--Robert

rjs200240 · March 2003

On the Collector's Edition part of the Olds website, they mention March as the date of Final 500 production.

http://www.oldsmobile.com/collectors/aurora/index.htm

There is also a link about "where to get one". That lists a bunch of dealers that are scheduled to get them. If yours isn't on there, you may want to at least look into it.

b4z · March 2003

They stopped taking orders on Auroas back in January.
190 Auroras were produced this last week.
That is far more than 8-17 they were producing a week before they started the Final 500 production.

My dealer in Charleston, SC has a Final 500. Sharp looking car, especially with the cadillac wheels.

If your dealer can't tell you about the car it is clear he is not getting one. Go to another dealer because not every Olds dealer qualifies for one.
Looks like he is lying to you.

aurora5000 · March 2003

I saw one on Saturday at the back lot of dealership. Just got in the day before and not cleaned up. The color seems to be a dark cherry.

RJS- Is you car the same color as Final 500? My wife hated the color. She said that it was too dark and liked the red color on the Deville much better. I guess that is a hint for me.

Steve

fjk57702 · March 2003

If the final order were called for in January, which makes sense, then they probably did not get enough orders to continue production past the end of March.

When they built the last Reatta's (1991), they did not even begin production until they had all of the dealers orders in. Then they built about 2000 cars.

garnes · March 2003

Toyota Aurora. Oh man. That figures. It's only one person, but yeah, I get the "who makes the Aurora" all the time when someone is in my car. I've also had the "it has a V6 right?".

I sure hope GM will get a clue about advertising and promoting their cars - especially when they make a good one like the Aurora.

Hey - different subject, but any speculation if the Chevy SS concept car will make it to production? A very cool looking 4 door with a stroked LS1 for 430 HP. Too cool. That would be worth waiting for, although knowing GM, they would look at the GTO and figure they have to water down the SS performance so as to keep the hierarchy in place. It would probably suffer from this backwards thinking again. I doubt the interior would be anything as nice as an Aurora though, but it looks too cool, provides some nice room, and would melt the tires on command.

garnes · March 2003

Forgot to mention. I've owned my 98 for two years today. Got it with 13,100 miles and now it's at 40,500. Great car. No regrets. It's had some issues under warranty, but has been totally reliable.

rjs200240 · March 2003

No, my car is not the same color. Mine is Cherry metallic and it is a lighter shade of dark red. Did you see the CE in direct light? It lightens up a bit and looks more like my color in bright light (it in bright light looks like mine in dark light). In the shade, it almost looks like a brown or purplish color. At the NAIAS, it really looked like crap, but then so did the 50th Anniversary 'vette. The lighting there was really terrible. I saw a CE Intrigue, but it was in the service bays at my local Olds dealer. It looked really purple/brownish there too. Actually, I can't remember where I saw one in an outside environment, but I'm pretty sure I have...

The Deville red is pretty cool because it is a pearlescent color, not metallic. It is like a red version of the White Diamond paint. It is a nice color, but looks sort of stupid on the Deville IMO. It looks a bit more appropriate on the Seville. It would probably look pretty good on the Aurora or CTS (I saw a CTS in the dark red a while back and it was really awesome looking. Unfortunately it also had some big ricey exhaust tips and Vogue tires that sort of ruined the overall look).

rjs200240 · March 2003

Greg, I would be quite surprised to see that make it to production. It sure looked sweet, though. Clearly it wouldn't have a larger V8 than the Corvette. Though there is talk that the C6 might make closer to 500 hp...

musclecar97 · March 2003

Just got back from a 2800 mile springbreak roadtrip. 2 kids, the wife and a trunk full of luggage. Boise to SanDiego to Phoenix to Vegas to Salt Lake City to Boise...On a dark desert highway...cool wind...averaged 79mph and 25mpg. I checked the mileage at fillups, about every 300 miles. The best was 27.8 and the worst 23.5. I used regular unleaded as gas in San Diego was $2.30 a gallon. I took some octane booster with me, $0.99 a pint treats 20 gallons. I only used it at lower elevations...like sea level(and below)...i.e. Death Valley. At higher elevations the higher octane is unnecessary.
The car ran great, what a wonderful highway cruiser. When I was on the 2 lane and needed to pass, I just punched it and zoomed to 90mph in a flash. Love the sound of that V8 coming to life! Cruising San Diego and Vegas with the sunroof open taking in the warm breezes was awesome...up ahead in the distance...I saw a shimmering light...
She's got 85,000 miles on her now and people still think this '97 is a brand new car. Did I mention that I love my Aurora...you can check out any time you like...but you can never leeave!

800wattaurora · March 2003

I'm glad to hear other Aurora's are playing nice with their owners, mines been mis-behaving these days. I can't stop or locate what my backfire problem is. No codes are coming up, just ran a tank of fuel system cleaner through it ($11 bottle, not the cheep stuff) and it ran ok, backfired only a few times seemed less often the more it drove. Today ran till almost empty put in amoco/bp 93 ultimate and first 2 mins backfired handfull of times. Don't know what to do. Thinking about get ride of my 800wattaurora. I know it's sad. Can't beleive I'm even thinking about it. Don't know what else I'd wan't to drive? Any of guys be interested in my RSM stuff and/or Corsa exhaust if I strip her down and trade her in? I feel like I just committed a sin here guys, forgive me, maybe if you guys can tell your aurora to play nicer with my 96 it'll want to stick around a while longer.
Taylor

mike98c · March 2003

People look at the symbol on the hood and get thrown sometimes I think. I overheard a man and a women arguing about was it a new or old Lexus in a parking lot, I also heard the guy at the dealership (Mitsubishi) where I was looking at a used one before I made up my mind and got an insurance car (flood, 80,000 miles since then). ask if I wanted to sit in the LUMINA that I was looking at. Maybe I should have asked why they mistakenly had their Lumina priced so hi

Oldsmobile Aurora

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