Toyota Tacoma: Problems & Solutions

smgilles · November 2001

But chiweiho his Ranger has 7000 trouble free miles, did you see that 7000 miles! That has to be the most reliable vehicle ever, in fact it has been so reliable he was shopping for a DC tacoma or a CC Nissan. Ironic don't you think?

tbunder · November 2001

you both need to chill. all im saying is that my ranger, low miles as it may be, just happens to be the same year as your lemon double cab and has yet to have a problem like you originally stated. now it sounds like you are actually defending your japanese ride. big difference between honda's and toyota's bud. i agree and even concede that honda's last longer than toyota's and are built better, and maybe even ford's. its all in how a person takes care of a vehicle and if they get the bugs in it ironed out early. evidently what you couldn't do with your double cab. my pap has an '88 2.3 4banger ranger 4x4 manual with just over 200K on the odometer-original owner. everything's original, actually he's never had to replace the water pump. so dont tell me that ford's can't go there. how was i ever mean to you? i actually praised your tenacity to get your problem resolved. i sense a little jealousy and hostility in you because you thought you were getting a quality vehicle since you probably paid thru the ying-yang for it, and it turns out it was a piece. y'all toyota owners are just like your dealers, you think you're all better than everyone else.

yep, you bet i was considering a dc and cc. i still am. but reading all your woes, and knowing im not gonna pay an extra $3K just for the word toyota on my tailgate, it will probably be a nissan. after all, they've won jd powers award for quality a lot more times than toyota. not to mention the 5 star safety ratings it brings with it. toyota can't touch it in safety or price. why consider either of these two trucks? i need the extra space. i love my ranger, but its a little tight with a car seat in the middle of the split-bench. if it was a crew cab or even offered in a crew cab, id jump on one. rangers are rock solid and the most powerful compact truck offered today.

tbunder · November 2001

this what you said earlier? and you're telling me to be nice? sounds like you need to practice what you preach.

#147 of 153 Toyota, Office of The President by chiweiho Nov 07, 2001 (11:44 am)
Not sure you have hear of this, but there is an Office of The President (OTP).

I have been complaining with the dealer, and Toyota_cares@toyota.com with problems with my truck. They just gave me a "go screw yourself" attitude. I emailed the Nummi plant, (since it is GM(UAW), no reply), and Toyota Japan. Japan send the email to OTP and I got their attention, but not for long. The guy told me there will be no more correspondence between him and I, since the dealer is handling the issue.

I ask the assistant of OTP if I can get a new truck, he said no, have to go thru arbitration with a third party firm (paper work is in the mail).
I ask the assistant of OTP if they can replace my engine and tranny, he said the dealer will contact me early next week.
I told the assistant of OTP why Toyota_cares@toyota.com can not answer any basic question, he just said, "why didn't you ask the supervisor", like customer service can only answer questions in the owners manual.
I ask the assistant of OTP if they can replace the clock of my truck with a Pac-Rim type clock (different size and location), he said NO.
I ask the assistant of OTP if he want all the correspondence of emails I received from Toyota, he said not necessary. I guess he knows it's pretty bad.
I ask the assistant of OTP if he can find out where the engine and tranny is made, he said he can't, and does not offer other ways of getting the info.

I will not be buying another Toyota and will no recommend anyone to buy one, because if you get a lemon, you are screwed

toadman · November 2001

Don't go through Toyota to have your problem resolved. Deal with your state attorneys office if you are not getting a satisfactory result. I'm not sure which state you are from but you can get a copy of the lemonlaw for your state and pursue a claim against Toyota. The dealer should be given a 'reasonable' chance to repair the defect. If the defect can not be fixed then pursue it through the lemonlaw.

Make certain you keep a copy of all repair work orders. A complete record of the vehicle's history is important to your lemonlaw claim. Ask the mechanic to write your TSB request on the repair order. Don't be misled by the dealership. If the problem continues, your lemonlaw situation might require legal help.

If you do require legal help and win in court, the attorneys fees should also be covered under your states lemonlaw. Goodluck and sorry to hear about your experience.

chiweiho · November 2001

Thanks toadman,

The arbitration paperwork from Toyota will arrive tomorrow. I live in California, so I will check with the State's attorneys office. Thanks for the heads up. The "Toyota Factory Tech" took a look at it, plug in a handheld, told me there others like it, but can not tell me who or how many, and said it's a characteristic. All doc paperwork are in order.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

Hey, Toyota is God.
tbunder: going to the dealership to testdrive my new Taco tomorrow, it's already there waiting for me. Took .....4 days to order it, instead of 3 weeks that the dealer promised (had to be ordered from the port, because I wanted very specific options).

tbunder · November 2001

why would you order a truck just to test drive it?

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

I didnt order it to testdrive. I'm going down there to make sure it has everything I need (to doublecheck the dealer, you never know), so if there is something extra/missing, they can get an early start at modifying it for me, since I have to wait for my Blazer to finish its auction on Ebay.

eagle63 · November 2001

don't mind tbunder. he searches for toyota owners who have had problems with their vehicles, then pitches his sermon about how toyotas suck and how great his ranger is. (7000 trouble-free miles, can I get an AMEN!!)
Odds are good that he isn't shopping for a DC or a frontier. these are just baiting ploys so he can take shots at toyota. He usually quiets down once you point out the recall data.

tbunder · November 2001

chiweiho- one recall on my ranger for 2001 model year- mine wasn't affected. how many did you have on your toyota you're trying to get the president of toyota to buy back? or should i ask, how many should you have had? correct me if im wrong, but aren't you the one who came on here saying "DONT BUY TOYOTA!"

dude, everytime you type, you contradict everything you said in your original "i hate toyota" post.

i have NOTHING against toyota, all along i have just said that i have so far had no problems with my ranger. you on the other hand, are the lemon buying king with your toyota it sounds like.

its not my problem you are angry with toyota, but please dont take it out on everyone else on here. i have not said anything offensive to you, i have only praised my ranger. something you can't do with your toyota you bought. take a chill pill.

PF_Flyer · November 2001

Remeber that it's OK to disagree about thing, but it's NOT OK to take these persoanl shots at each other.

Time to back up a bit and cool off.

Thanks

PF Flyer

Host

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eagle63 · November 2001

tbunder-
I'm not sure if your last post was directed at me or chiweiho... (we are 2 different people)
anyway, here's what you posted after chiweiho posted his tacoma problems:

"well, the double cab TRD's are at least "nice looking" trucks. even if they leak water and the dashes fall off of them.
chiweiho, i admire your persistence. after all, you did overspend on your purchase. just like all toyota buyers. and for what? a piece of produce? good luck."

"i have NOTHING against toyota, all along i have just said that i have so far had no problems with my ranger."

-are you sure that's all you said??

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

eagle63: I think tbunders main problem with Toyotas is how they are more expensive. He's been going on and on about how his Ranger is 3-4K cheaper than a comparatively equipped Tacoma. I guess we can all wait until the dash in his new Nissan DC starts falling off, or people in good trucks start making fun of him on the road, whichever comes first.

tbunder: Would you laugh at people who bought a BMW 3-series? After all, a Chrysler 300M, which is also considered a luxury sedan, costs 4.5K less than the beamer. I've said it again, and I'll say it again.....Tacoma sells. Following your logic about overpaying, thousands of people who bought Tacoma over the 5 last years must be brainless idiots. Perhaps there is something to the truck?
Ever wonder why there were no commercials for a Tacoma up until last couple of weeks? (I havent seen a single commercial for it in 6 years that I was in school) Because the truck sells itself. This is why there are no specials on it either..sucks for the consumer, but Toyota has found out that people will buy the truck regardless, because they are very satisfied with the product. Drawing an analogy to the world of consumer electronics:
Ranger is the GE.....cheap, affordable by about anyone, breaks down few times in the process, but nevertheless works more or less ok, and it really depends on the individual experience.
Tacoma is the Sony. Expensive, but you get what you pay for.

sebring95 · November 2001

There are definetely vehicles out there that are cheaper to operate. I used to manage a very large fleet (we'd put about 200 into service each year) and I can spin your head with overall cost formulas. For years we bought mainly Luminas, (what a wonderful vehicle). I put a few Toyotas into the fleet because I really like them, have owned quite a few, and wanted to see what would happen. Basically as I guessed they had better repair histories, less down time, and more satisfaction from the employees stuck with putting 40K-50K miles a year on the things. However, even with the cheap maintenance/repairs, the overall cost was too high. We were programmed for 120K mile replacements. Had I kept the Camrys longer the cost probably could have come into the same ballpark as the Luminas. However, breakeven was around 150K miles and I would need to put quite a few into the stream to ever really prove the theory. And the overall cost difference was about $2000 multiplied by 200 cars per year and you'll see there's too much risk involved to just break even. So what it really comes down to is a few thousand dollars worth of something you want over something you don't. Some people are absolutely satisfied with a Lumina (ranger) others want something different (notice I didn't say better because thats subjective) and are willing to pay for it. And that few thousand dollar difference will follow the vehicle through the resale market for quite some time so actually it doesn't cost you that much more. If you keep a vehicle for 5 years it will probably still be worth the same margin used as the other vehicle. I've been watching for an older used 4X4 pickup preferably a Toyota. They are priced well above the rangers/s-10's of the same vintage even 10 years old.

My brother had and my brother-in-law has a Ranger. My Tacoma was much better as far as reliability goes. That's as much I can do on reliablility between the two trucks, but I just plain like the Tacoma better. But then again I have a habit of blowing money:) I've got 500 shares of Palm to prove it:)

tbunder · November 2001

your analogy on the bmw and chrylser is absurd. those are two very different class of sedans. one is small (bmw) and the chrylser is a lot larger and a lot more powerful. to be honest with you, the 300M has a legacy to it, the bmw is just another german sedan. also, the 300M will blow the doors off an equivalent equipped 3 series.

also, your analogy on the sony and ge is perfect. the sony usually costs more than the ge (although the GE (RCA) tv's put sony's trinicrap to shame any day), but the ge will outlast it everytime and parts are much cheaper. you just proved my point that the ranger is cheaper than the toyota, will last just as long if not longer, and parts are easier and cheaper to get for it.

yeah, no wonder ford sells hundreds of thousands more rangers a year than toyota sells tacomas. ya think? you're not making sense dude.

also, nissan does not make a double cab. its called crew cab. and if it's such a crappy truck, why has it won jd power's award for best compact truck in quality more times than tacoma? i dont even think the toyota compact truck has ever won it. answer that one.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

The BMW/Chrysler comparison came from the luxury sedans page. Look up a M-series beamer, and compare it in the category...it's the same class of a car.
GE/Sony: Thats right, this is why Circuit City sells so many GE TVs. The point was this: Ford, for the most part, is the mass production company. It has some small limited productions, but other than that, Ford is there to satisfy the lower end of the market. A 50K income family of 3 can not afford something like a Toyota, and Ford, here we come!
There are people who buy crap in Walmart all their life, and there are those who do all their shopping in Circuit City. Similarly, there are people who buy Rangers, and those who can afford to pay a little extra (comparatively speaking) for something they believe (and a lot of other people believe) is better, so they buy a Toyota.
We'll see how long your "7K mile! troublefree, eat this, Toyota" Ranger will last before it needs a big repair. And when you try to sell it to trade it in for another Ford, remember the Toyotas resale price.

Nissan does make crap trucks. I mean, you ranger people wanted numbers? Fine. (Taco DC 4x4 vs. Nissan CC 4x4)
190hp vs 170hp at same RPMs, 20 lb/f torque less.
17/19mpg vs. 16/18mpg
Nissan is 300 lbs heavier.
ACTUALLY has 3" less rear legroom.
Standard towing: Taco 5K, Nissan 3.5K
Havent you guys made a big deal out of the Ranger being able to max. tow more than Tacoma?
350lbs less payload for Nissan.
Pricewise: Nissan is actually closer to the Tacoma than a Ranger, MSRPs differ by 1-2K, before the packages.

So.....what do we have here? Got a truck with the weak [non-permissible content removed] V6 (the only other V6 I've testdriven like that was a Subaru Forrester) that drinks more gas while providing 20hp less. Note: it's still the same 20hp that Tacoma differs from a Ranger. No supercharger on that thing (even if there was, it'd be a laughable matter). A truck known as a "plastic spaceship". Tbunder, can you guess why? Hint: think plastic all over the body.
See, what you are doing, quoting the JD Powers, is the same thing we tried to do to you Ranger people in the Ranger vs. Tacoma. Remember how you asked for numbers, official data, so we gave you that. And Ranger fans started doing what? Disputing everything. "4wheeler mag will put Tacoma to the top, yeah, it has 3 big Toyota ads in the magazine". Remember that? Besides, wtf do JD Powers people know about truck driving. And oh.......I just went to jdpower.com, selected the 2001 Tacoma, Ranger and Nissan, and did a comparison. I do see an award sign there, but it is floating over the Tacoma......And Taco has one star more in Mechanical quality than Nissan and Ranger..but wait, price is what matters, and features, features, features. I dont think a standard CD player is going to help when your truck is at the shop.

chiweiho · November 2001

Hi guys, thanks for sticking up for me, got a nasty gram from Edmunds, no big, just got back from Houston, TX, the ratio for US makers and others is about 60 (US) to 40%, there was a lot of Doublecabs, on the road and in lots, Frontier count was half of Doublecab. I saw a lot of full side 4 door trucks, Ford 350 and Chevy's. why full size trucks? not for the 10 gal hats, because the gas was a buck a gallon.

I saw only two BMWs, most cars we saw had dents and no one wax their cars.

California is different because the ratio is about 40 US and 60% other cars.

I am disappointed with Toyota, and would like my truck to be replaced, but my DoubleCab is the truck I will purchase again, because of my parameters. If I want a car, I will buy a Honda, too bad Honda don't make trucks.

BTW, I still have contacts with Sony, used to work for them, some products are bad, but still buy Sony because it is best for it's price, i never pay full price for Sony products. What's GE?

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

GE is this low end electronic stuff you can find in Walmart (They sell GE DVD players for like $90)

As far as Texas goes: What did you expect? There are some nice expensive beemers and Audis here in Austin, but it's the state capital. Texas is not exactly California.
Why fullsize trucks? Because on the road you can quite often see a 5-6 pack of Mexicans riding in the back of one. There's a lot of people working low end jobs in Austin, that need truck power.

tbunder · November 2001

remember the guy who talked about blind toyota owners? dude- you're the epitome of that blind person.

btw, frontier is rated to tow 5000 lbs just like the toyota. manual is 3500, but so is manual tacoma. get your figures straight. so if you think the 20 horse difference on tacoma to ranger is not so big of a deal, why are you calling the frontier's 170 horse engine weak? its also 20 down from the tacoma. can't have it both ways my man. the frontier makes more low-end torque at lower rpms than the either tacoma or ranger if im not mistaken. that's what really counts in trucks.

comparing four-wheeler magazine to jd powers is laughable as you put it. jd powers is a consumer group which ranks a diverse selection of consumer goods, four-wheeler magazine is a magazine which wants to make money selling ads. you do the math there.

regarding your quote as the frontier being heavier than the toyota. well, it is. so is the ranger. so is the S10. why? because the tacoma is built weak with fiberglass everything. sorry, but id rather be in a truck that was heavier built than some tin can that will cave in when hit from the side. hence the frontier's five star crash rating. what's toyota's?

and msrp? you say that nissan is closer to toyota. maybe a nissan frontier SE leather. but not the XE. an XE crew cab 4x4 with power everything can be had for barely over $21000. and that's retail price. take off the usual 2grand, and that is no where near a toyota dc 4x4. keep dreaming there buddy. and options? you don't even want to talk about options. the nissan has toyota by the throat when it comes to options.

plastic spaceship? frontier has plastic flares like toyota. a plastic front bumper cover. your opinion of the truck is your own. thats respectable. but all you have to do is go drive one of just slam the door or tailgate of a crew cab nissan, or any other nissan product for that matter. the nissans are built to such high tolerances that every seam is within 1/16 of an inch. can you say airtight? the frontier is.

SONY- you pay for the name. just like toyota. no quality as chiweiho is finding out, along with no customer support.

chiweiho- you ask who's GE? its just one of the biggest and most profitable company in practically the histoty of the world, that's all. i figured you'd know that.

i have one experience with sony, i bought a handycam from best buy two years ago. was the biggest piece of sh&t i ever bought. was serviced more than it was used. no quality, but aaah, that SONY name on it.

plutonious · November 2001

My manual Tacoma is rated at 5000lbs too, not 3500lbs. And according to Edmunds, the Ranger outweighs the Tacoma by something like 60 or 70lbs, despite the Tacoma being made of "tin and figerglass."

Let's not talk about who's blind or who needs to get their facts straight...

Options? I guess options like Toyota's 265HP supercharged engine and rear locker, not available on Frontier, don't count? I guess you would rather have a third cupholder or more exterior plastic molding.

I wouldn't praise the Frontier's engine too much. It was always weak to begin with, now they slapped a supercharger on it just to make it competitive with everybody else's non-charged V6. At least Toyota got it right by offering an excellent V6 to begin with, then supercharged it, making it the most powerful V6 available for any compact truck.

tbunder · November 2001

pluto pluto. please get your facts straight. a manual is always rated to tow less than an auto. this is an understood thing all around. and if you have a 5spd, its rated at 3500. at least the '02 is- per toyota's own literature.

the ranger outweighs the tacoma by around 400 lbs. bud. you need to compare apples to apples. not take a regular cab short bed ranger to an extra cab toyota. the toyota ex. cab weighs in at around 3600 lbs. ranger is around 4000 lbs.

again, here is this toyota tacoma s/c optional engine thing. well pluto, i have the 2002 brochure for the tacoma right here. no where does it mention a supercharger as an option at the end of the brochure where all the options are offered. only a V6 and an I-4. rear locker- big deal. nissan like ford uses a locking rear diff. an option that can be used always. not just when you are climbing a rock incline that one time in your trucks life. anyways, as you know, the lsd locks in all the time. not just when you're stopped and have to engage it manually. what good is that?

and why would nissan offer toyota's supercharged engine? did you realized you typed that? although they do offer their own FACTORY installed supercharger at the same price as toyota's lower horsepowered and torqued V6. to get the toyota s/c, you have to buy your truck, take it back to the dealer, have some "certified" mechanic put it on, and hope he got it right. to me, this is just maintenance waiting to happen when you start tinkering with an engine in that manner. nothing like a factory built engine. also, that toyota s/c that you're always bragging about (which i doubt you have or will ever have) is like an additional $2000 at least to buy and install. the nissan s/c can be had for around $24000.

if you want to talk about modified engines, im sure a paxton s/c on a frontier 3.3 or even a SOHC 4.0 ranger engine for that matter which has more power than tacoma to begin with will make just as much power as the trd s/c if not more. and guess what, it will be cheaper. tell me, you're always bragging so much about this toyota supercharger that you claim is optional, do you even have one? i didn't think so. why dont you stop bragging so much about it if you dont even have one.

one more thing, go knock on the doors or rear cab of the tacoma. it sure ain't metal my friend.

Pluto said:
Let's not talk about who's blind or who needs to get their facts straight...

bud, its because you have never accomplished this thing about getting facts straight. you are very under-informed and are very errant when you type your info. everytime i read something you type, i laugh at how naive you are.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

Ok. Point about the engine was that: Nissan has about the weakest V6 in its class. Any lower and it loses in the hp to an I4 from Toyota thats in Tacoma, 150hp one. For the hp the NIssan gets, you'd think that they could drink less gas?

When in fact, Nissan gets the same gas milage as your 4.0L ranger engine. So you do the math, and see how well Nissan's engine is built. Nevermind the charger, Nissan is a joke with or without it.

Plastic spaceship: I didnt make this name up, I heard it from other people. Having plastic fenders is one thing. Having the whole fricken front of a truck covered in plastic is another.

How big of an impact would it take to demolish the front?

And talk about tincan? Seriously.....Check this out: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/ford/ranger/4drsupercabxlt4wdstylesidesb40l6cyl5m/specs.html?id=lin0018

Pay attention to the Weight number.

Then check this out:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tacoma/2drxtracabv64wdsb34l6cyl5m/specs.html?id=lin0018

Ford must have found this super material that weights just like tin, but is so much stronger.

Who has the tincan now? Both of us.

Hey, what happened to the numbers I produced with JD Powers page? I mean, JD Powers must be bought off by Toyota too, since they gave Tacoma an award for 2001......I thought Nissan was supposed to be the winner.

Tell me...what does the 1/16 inch precision in doors have to do with anything? When I drive the Taco to work, I can barely hear the highway at 75mpg. I turn on the stereo just a bit, and I can't hear anything. As far as I am concerned, there is no roadnoise at all. WHen I testdrove an Isuzu Rodeo, that thing was noisy, I could feel the wind in my hair. Aint nothing like that in Tacoma, if you don't believe me, come down to Texas, I'll prove it to you. Or just go to the dealership near you.

My experience with Sony:

I bought this lovely DVD player couple month ago, and can't complain at all. Given the choice of all sorts of functionality, colors, style, etc....

maybe about 15 different kinds all together. And one GE on the shelf, really really cheap.

eagle63 · November 2001

"the 300M has a legacy to it, the bmw is just another german sedan. also, the 300M will blow the doors off an equivalent equipped 3 series."

-wow. I thought I'd heard it all. I can't wait to tell my boss (who drives an M3) that he'd better watch out for any 300M's on the road.

sebring95 · November 2001

BMW's only been around for what two-three years:) The only thing the 300M has in common with its legacy (300 series vehicles) is the name. I have an original '62 300 poster hangin on the office wall. Here's how it reads: "Remarkable Automobiles! With such a wide selection of options you can almost design your own 300! Like deep leather contour seats? Power steering? A V-8 engine with the kick of 380 horses? You can choose any of these with your 300! Torsion-bar suspension...rattle-repellent Unibody....batter-saving alternator..." Well maybe the 300M's have alternators and power steering, but where's the V8?

I don't know why Toyota would have decreased towing on the double cabs. In the past, the V6 5-speed was rated at 5000# and would do it fine. My 2.7L 5-speed was rated at 3500# and did a helluva job IMHO.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

Go to Edmunds and select the chrysler 300M. Then compare it to anything else. Thats a 4door sedan class. Lets see....Prices range from 28K for Chrysler to 33K for Lincoln LS. I guess Lincoln cars are there for pretty pictures, since nobody in their right mind would buy one, when you have a chrysler 300M for 5K less.
Are you getting what I am talking about or not? I can't spell it out anymore clearly.

tbunder · November 2001

dude, the M3, and the 3-series are a totally different crop of cars. you should know this since your boss drives an M3. an M3 can't be had for $27,000. nearly double if you're lucky to find one.

on the other hand, here's some education for you.
300M- 3.5 250 horse V6
BMW 3-series- most powerful 3.0 is 225 horses.

i have nothing against BMW, i would actually like to have the 2.5 coupe. but im a truck man, and the wife wont let me have both. i actually am considering a 2002 extra cab tacoma 4cyl. 5 spd 4x4. i just found out that a car seat can be placed in the rear part of the cab. something not available on ranger. still undecided though. the lower power scares me, but im wanting something that will get good mileage. i've yet to drive one.

smgilles · November 2001

Can anyone say HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smgilles · November 2001

After I get done bashing you and everything about a Ranger, I think I will go buy one. You kill me guy, I haven't laughed this hard in a long time:) I hope you do buy the Taco, because then you will find out on what you have been missing! It's like a cult you know.

tbunder · November 2001

im not a hypocrite, ive never had anything against the toyota. ive just been pointing out its specs as compared to other trucks. its safety isn't anything to brag about. the ford rules in safety. i will drive both the frontier crew cab and a toyota extra cab 4x4 when its time to buy again. the only reason i would consider the toyota is because i think one could be bought new for around $17500 with SR5 and 5spd. if not, ill go the used route. i doubt ill keep it for long anyways after i do buy it, no matter what i get. with a new ranger, colorado (S10), and tacoma, as well as a new nissan waiting in the wings of '03, ill probably get one of them. right now, i just want to buy a 4x4 truck for around $18000. and if toyota enables me to put my two year old back in the rear comfortably, ill do that. it looks like there is more room back there than is in my ranger. but maybe its just how the seats fold down, instead of folding down from the side. who knows, if the truck is all what you guys say its cracked up to be, i may just keep it and really see how long it can go.

plutonious · November 2001

2002 Toyota Tacoma 2dr X-cab V6 4wd SB (3.4L 6cyl with 5 manual) = 3515lbs and 5000lbs towing

2002 Ford Ranger 4dr Supercab XLT 4WD Styleside SB (4.0L 6cyl with 5 manual) = 3584lbs

So the Ranger is 69lbs heavier.

If you don't believe me, it's right here at Edmunds. Is this what you call a mismatched comparison? Where do you come up with your figures of Rangers being 4000lbs and outweighing Tacomas by 400lbs? Or that the new Tacomas only tow 3500lbs with the manual? Just curious...

Oh, and automatics always tow more than the manuals, huh? Maybe you could explain to me why heavy duty trucks have a manual option then, and why 18 wheelers have manual transmissions. I'll be waiting for your explanation on that one!!!

You know, I had a kick-butt time hunting the past few days in northern Coahuila. My truck ate up the trails. My trusty Remington 30.06 did its job flawlessly. But to be honest, I couldn't wait to get back and check out your latest BS!!!

tbunder · November 2001

its always been you, and it always will be. after all, you're the one who's the big bad four wheeler who has meetings in his back yard, but after all that, you thought that having 6 lugs on a wheel made it better off road than 5, right?

and you're the one who thinks that flotation and metric sized tires are the same thing. right?

you're the one who lives by the magazines and can't go wheel for himself. right?

here's your proof: please educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself on here like usual.

http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Toyota/Tacoma/2002.asp

on the other hand, read this and weep:

http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Ford/Ranger/2002.asp

pluto, you seriously need to take my advice about researching stuff more closely. ive told you tme and time again to do this.

the rangers STANDARD towing is over 2000lbs. more than the tacoma's. its maximum is even more than the tacoma's maximum of 5000lbs. and only the dc is rated for that much weight. edmunds' is incorrect. check yahoo if you still have doubts. its the same as carpoint. my '02 brochure backs what i just said up as well.

yeah yeah, you're now saying, wow i was wrong again. darn!

im glad your truck performed so flawlessly. after all, something had to bring you back to your ruthless life of being obsessed with some dude in iowa and his knowledge. right? thought so. OUT!

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

When are you going to provide the well-researched data to backup your words about how Ranger is 400lbs heavier, because it is built of real steel, not the tin, like Tacoma?
Your carpoint links conviniently show "No Data" in the Ranger weight category.
You made a statement, now prove it. You've been blaming us for a long time about how we can not backup our words with numbers, now its your time.

plutonious · November 2001

Tbunder backs up his statements that automatics ALWAYS tow heavier than manuals. So why do heavy duty trucks have a manual option, and why are 18 wheelers manuals?

Here's when Tbunder starts the personal attacks...

eagle63 · November 2001

"on the other hand, here's some education for you.
300M- 3.5 250 horse V6
BMW 3-series- most powerful 3.0 is 225 horses."

-yeah, and the 300M is about 600 pounds heavier. I'll take the bimmer, thanks.

tbunder · November 2001

i dont know where i saw the ranger's weight ratings of what i said i thought they were, but i evidently saw it somewhere. so i guess the only way to tell is to put it on a scale and see. otherwise i cannot document that claim.

pluto, the reason automatics are rated higher in regards to towing weight, is because they are generally stronger and do not wear out as fast as clutches. this is only in automobiles, i never said anything about semi's or any other hd truck. but you'd be surprised at how many large trucks are now automatics, even school buses are going that way. they're more efficient and less maintenance. im just going on every spec. listing ive looked at, which i know for a fact that the manual is always rated at least 1500lbs. lower than the auto. like my new '97 ZR2, it was an auto. 4.3 short bed regular cab (a darn powerful little truck nonetheless too, 190 horses and 250 ft. lbs of torque) and rated to tow 5000 lbs. whereas the manual 4.3 was rated at 3500 lbs. im looking at the '97 brochure right now. the manual probably can tow that much, but the manufacturer does not recommend it since it's their [non-permissible content removed] if your clutch goes trying to tow that much weight with your manual. they're covering their butts.

so for all of you that care, here's what i came up with for the tacoma idea im having.

2002 Tacoma x-tra cab 4-cyl 5spd. 4x4
options:
chrome SR5 pkg
TRD off-road pkg.
cruise control
power pkg.

invoice price is $19609 for everything but delivery.
retail is $21936
what could i get it for ya think, and would a dealer actually order one like that? anyone know how good or bad the 4 banger does on gas?
NOTE: the only reason im considering this is NOT because i think the toyota is better in any way, i actually think its not as safe as the ranger. i just want a cheap nice looking capable truck and if a toyota x-tra cab can accomodate a rear child seat, it will work and i can save on some bed length, not to mention about $6000. i rarely tow anything and do not need all the power i have. i mean 150 horse is enough to cruise 70 mph. i also think the 5 spd would be fun.

eagle63 · November 2001

do they still make a regular cab ZR2? I haven't seen any around in quite a while so I assume they don't. a shame if they don't.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

Here's my Taco:
Xtracab, 2002, V6 4x4.
SR5 color package
TRD
Power.
Sliding window
mats

The last option (mats) is distributor-installed, everything else is factory installed.
I got exactly what I wanted from the dealer, they just put an order through to have a specific color Taco pulled at the distributor center and have mats thrown in, and sent to me.
It took the dealer 4 days to call me back from the time I gave the dealer a Go-ahead, and tell me that the Taco was at the lot waiting to be picked up (and not the 2-3 weeks like they promised).
I'm buying mine for 21.9K (plus ttl).
So just tell the dealer exactly what you want. All the packages you have listed (not sure about cruise control) are factory-installed, and right now there is a lot of choice in what you can get.
So you ought to have no problems. The only thing the dealer could not order for me was the ABS, he said it'd take a long long time.
The I4 is pretty capable, you got 150hp engine there, a lot of people on the ttora board are happy with it, and get nice gas milage.
I think you are gonna end up paying something like 1-2% over the invoice, if you could spring up another 2K, you could actually get a V6, but thats up to you. I got mine Monday night, and loving it.

sc0rpi0 · November 2001

If you are serious about buying a Toyota, and not in another one of your Ranger power trips (or whatever it is, what happened to the Nissan you wanted to buy?), go to www.tacomaterritory.com and to the message boards from there. You'll get all the answers you need from there.

plutonious · November 2001

Sorry, but I don't need it explained to me why SOME automatics tow more than SOME manuals. You should be more careful when you make blanket statements like "a manual is ALWAYS rated to tow less than an auto..." You also incorrectly used your 1500lb theory and applied it to V6 Tacomas with a 5 speed, saying they only tow 3500lbs. You also incorrectly said Rangers weigh around 4000lbs, outweighing "tin and fiberglass" Tacomas by 400lbs.

If I were you, and are serious about getting into a Tacoma, you should drive the V6 and compare it to the I4 engine. I did when I bought my truck, and there's no comparison.

tbunder · November 2001

sorry bud, but you're not worthy of a response by me. you are a very negative and one track person. you see only the positives in life and fail to recognize any negatives. this is totally apparent in all your posts with your blind misconceptions and personal attacks on other boards at edmunds. you are a totally biased person and your comments all over edmunds should be taken with a grain of salt. just like your alleged wheeling experiences, oh and lets not forget your 30.6 gun. whew. thats a biggy dude.

tbunder · November 2001

last year for ZR2 regular cabs was '99. and that year they were very rare. the reg. cabs are like an old stump jumper (toy). they are the coolest trucks on the road i think (and very fast and powerful for their little size and huge engine). they look like a little toy truck, say a tonka. the 31's combined with the huge flares and that huge 31 hanging back there under the bed just make a statement. not to mention the bilstein shocks hanging down there that toyota copied off of and put on their TRD's. the trucks are just cool as he77. if they made a crew cab ZR2, it would rock. just like the 4dr ZR2 Blazer would have. i saw prototype pics of the 4dr blazer with the ZR2 pkg on it, it was totally cool. that'd be the ultimate suv. they never made it though.

scorpio- the nissan is still a possibility, ive found a couple in MN for cheap, surprisingly. i just need to drive one before i decide totally. but the white TRD just does something for me. its a real cool truck. if i could get it for under $20000, that would rock. i am going to look at how the car seat fits in one today. and what are you talking about a ranger power trip? i love my ranger yeah, but what do you mean? yeah, it has alot more power than a tacoma, but we all know that. we've went through all the spec stuff enough i thought. we can again though if you want.

pluto- what archie bunker does to meathead with his mouth?.... i just did it to you. hehe

plutonious · November 2001

Wow, you know so much. Let me explain why I use a 30.06 and not something else. For starters, it's already kind of overkill for the deer where I hunt, but hey, overkill is better than underkill, right? The real reason I use my 30.06 is that it's a great brush gun, meaning the bigger round penetrates through brush (a lot of brush in northern Coahuila, BTW) better than the lighter, faster stuff. Yeah, the mag 7 is awesome too, but I've had my rifle tweaked for a long time just the way I like it. I don't need a bigger gun. In fact, if I didn't have to shoot through so much damn brush, I would use something smaller and lighter; much easier to lug around. Down here, I don't get too many "clear shots" because me view is obscured, and the last thing I need is an even larger round mangling my deer even more. Bigger isn't always better.

Tbunder, we all know you too well to believe you won't respond to somebody when you have a point to be made. By your silence, you're admitting I'm right, as usual, and you're wrong, as usual, on all this towing and weight talk.

Oh, thanks for your little psycho-analysis. How much is that going to cost me, Dr. Tbunder? Now you're a psychologist too, heh?

PF_Flyer · November 2001

I understand that everyone is passionate about their trucks, but let's steer clear of all the little personal comments OK?

One of the most difficult things to do on a message board is to have people read thing the way you meant to say them. Humor sometimes comes across as insult... which is why I'm asking that you NOT comment about your fellow users. Let's avoid the fights when we can.

Thanks

PF Flyer

Host

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tbunder · November 2001

it looks like i wont be getting a toyota x-tra cab afterall. toyota of dm had a 2002 red, color-keyed TRD 4x4 xtra cab. i put the toddler seat in it in the back, it will fit, but there is no room for the little one's legs. and the seat it sits on doesn't even cover the whole underneath of the child seat. needless to say, i need a crew cab something or other. and the nissans i found up in MN, 4x4 2001's with their off-road pkg, V6, and auto. for $17995 look very appealing. all they need are some 31 inch tires (XE's have 15 inch alloys) and i think they'd look pretty cool. you may or may not like them, but right now they are the only alternative. i think they're kinda cool looking. tires dramatically change a truck's appearance. the dodge's suck, and toyota's cheapest dc i was quoted today was $25000, that's new, but the used one's im seeing aren't too far from that. they're just too overpriced for what im looking for.

so, so long from me in this forum unless someone makes comments towards me. i visited this site cuz i was considering a tacoma. i still like them, but im not gonna spend that kind of cash on a truck (toyota dc). ill see you all in ranger vs. tacoma. toodaloo

reynolds6 · November 2001

You need to look around a little more on Tacoma DC pricing. I got mine for $25,925 and it has practically everything but the sunroof and adj. lumbar option. You should be able to get the options you listed for $24K or less. I just didn't think I could stomach Nissan's unappealing (to me anyway) appearance and once I sat in one I knew I didn't want one. Hope you find something that makes you happy

).

tbunder · November 2001

well, i sat in a 2002 frontier, and loved it. feels like a sports coupe to me. all the controls are in really easy reach (something else thats offered standard in 2002 SE 4x4's that's nice is the compass and outside temp display). i doubt ill have it for more than a year or so, so im not gonna spend $24K on a dc just to have it. i dont like the tacoma any more than the nissan when talking double cabs. and like i said, the XE frontier 4x4 looks better imo than the SE's. the XE has the black flares and front bumper. all it needs is some aggressive tires and it will look completely different. hope you don't have the issues that chiweho had with his dc. he's trying to get toyota to buy it back. good luck.

reynolds6 · November 2001

The Frontier should be a good vehicle. My wife drives a '92 Pathfinder that I bought new. It has 106K on it and all I have done is routine maintenance. It usually takes a while for body style changes to grow on me but I still prefer the late eighties/early nineties Nissan look to what they have now. I guess you can tell I don't change vehicles very much. My 3rd vehicle is an '85 Toy 4WD with 200K+ on it. Didn't buy it new though and it was abused by winter salt up north. Looks pretty rough now.
I have 6400 miles on my '01 D-cab and my only problem so far is an annoying ABS fault that only seems to occur when all the service depts. are closed. The dealer says that they will fix it under warranty and I need to bring it in while the light is on. I'm happy with the D-cab and would recommend it to others. However, my Nissan has also given me good service over the years and I think they still make a good product.

smgilles · November 2001

I too was a loyal Nissan guy (88 4wd went for 200+) and still got $3000 out of it. So when I went truck shopping the Nissan was first on my list. I drove the 170hp (a dog). Drove the S/C Nissan and was only mildly impressed. When I hear S/C I would like to think POWER. When I tried getting one, the dealership would not budge on price. So, I was able to get a v6 4wd Ext. cab tacoma for the same price. I am glad I went the route I did.

I don't doubt that the Nissans are good trucks, being what luck I had with the first one. They are just underpowered and not equipped to leave the highway. Looks, I could get use to them, I agee with Tblunder on the black fender wells. Now that my Tacoma is S/C'ed I am really glad I went with the Toy.

tbunder · November 2001

why dont you think the frontier is equipped to leave the highway? after all, they have skidplates, a manual t-case lever (which is what toyota uses too, even though its just like a button anymore but y'all brag about it). why don't you think their off-road package is capable? they offer a limited-slip diff., FULLY BOXED FRAME as compared to partially boxed for toyota. full size spare just like toyota, largest standard tires in their respective classes-265/70/15 on XE 4x4's
265/70/16 on SE 4x4's
also, they are only around 20 ft/lbs torque down on a tacoma 3.4. the toyota dealer told me yesterday that the 3.4 wasn't the quickest around when i asked him about it compared to the 2.7 5spd. he said yeah its faster, but he talked like my SOHC 4.0 would kill it.

a respectable engine, after all, 170 horse used to be a lot, if not the most. what did toyota's V6 have before the 3.4? a 2.8? trucks haven't gotten any heavier, we've just gotten more spoiled. it can tow just as much as a tacoma-5000lbs. im not saying its the best truck around, i like all compacts. im just saying its not a piece like some on here believe. and to tell you the truth, i think with equivalent tires, it will go anywhere any other compact will go. the price and the potential of the truck with tires is what sells me on them. in a perfect world, id go buy a silver TRD dc 4x4 today. but its not, so i wont. the nissan will look just as cool when im done with my extras. and for only $17995 asking price on the one XE 4x4 crew cab up in MN, those extras won't cost much more. tires are easy to change.

just did some looking, and found out where i got the 4000lbs number in my head i quoted for the weight of the ranger. instead, this is what the crew cab 4x4 nissan weighs- turns out it weighs 300 more pounds than the tacoma dc. also, it has 9.7 inches of ground clearance, which is just an inch lower than the toyota. add the 31's im talking about, and that would be equal.

jl8w3 · November 2001

Hello
My friend has a '98 Tacoma Extended cab. We were trying to add an amplifier to the factory radio and in doing so had to remove the dask kit. I disconnected the Airbag plugs from the switch and when I reconnected them, the air bag light on the instrument cluster stays on regardless if the key is in the ignition or not. Does the dealership have to reset the computer or is there another fix? If the dealership has to reset it, how much do you think they will or should charge?
Thanks

Ted.

Toyota Tacoma: Problems & Solutions

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Toyota Tacoma: Problems & Solutions