Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

sdc2 · January 2002

To those of you who have looked at Isuzu TSBs, see anything on 3.5L intake manifold gaskets? Mine has gone out twice...

sbcooke · January 2002

You should check ALLDATA.COM. I think they have the most up to date TSB's. Edmunds now has a TSB section too. This is for the Manifold Gasket...TSB00-01-S005...APR 00...Intake Manifold Gasket - MIL ON/DTC's Set. It is a one liner, and you have to pay to get the details on it.

viktoria_r · January 2002

We called local Isuzu dealer and he gave us tow service phone to use. We did not have to pay.

BTW, after arriving home, we took it to our dealer. They reset the codes, but after we got the truck and drove it next morning, the CEL came on again. Now it's intermittent - flashes for a little while, then goes off, then comes on again...

re sparkplugs - how long do they normally last?
Tx.

sdc2 · January 2002

The regular maintenance schedule for my 99 calls for spark plug replacement at 100,000 miles, I'm sure yours is the same. However, I don't recommend waiting that long, because they can be a bear to get out after sitting in the engine block that long. It is a very easy swap, can be done (even by me) in less than an hour.

paisan · January 2002

Flashing CELs are bad. Steady CELs are non-harmful emission crap and can be caused by bad gas or a non-tightened gas cap.

-mike

bluedevils · January 2002

I'm wondering what kind of problem this might be-- intake manifold gasket, perhaps? If so, the timing couldn't be better since our 98 Trooper is still barely under the 60k powertrain warranty (58,900 miles now)

Today my wife reported the Trooper has been idling rough the past couple days. I drove the truck tonight and noticed 2 things:

1) idled smoothly, but faster than normal (around 1000-1500 RPM) for a few minutes before settling down a little as it warmed up. It was cold today in Michigan, so maybe the higher idle was weather-induced?

2) After truck was warm, it was idling a little slower than normal (500 RPM or less) and seemed a little uneven. I felt a little pulsating or something while in the driver's seat. #2 is highly unusual on our truck, as it has always idled and run smoothly (except for some spark knock/ping/whatever a few thousand miles back, which 2 bottles of Chevron Techron helped solve).

After a 30-minute trip, I started the truck to head home. The Check Engine light came on and stayed on the whole trip. Truck was running fine, no performance issues at all. However, it was still idling low and uneven when I pulled it into the driveway.

We'll be making a dealer appointment tomorrow. Any ideas on what to suggest to the dealer? Isuzu dealers here in the Land of the Big 3 aren't the most knowledgeable.

bluedevils · January 2002

Just thought I'd respond to this question from a while back.

Based on the 5 or 6 responses I've seen, the 684 tire seems to last about 50,000 miles given non-aggressive (read "non-paisan") driving habits.

We replaced ours at 52k but could have kept them until 60k and still been safe, IMO.

bluedevils · January 2002

Can someone remind me again which brands of plugs seem to work well, and which do not work well, with the 3.5L Trooper engine?

As our Troop nears 60k, it seems that we should be changing the plugs before too long.

I seem to remember Jake the mechanic on itog.com claiming that the NGK (I think the OEM plugs are NGK?) plugs were the best choice.

bluedevils · January 2002

I usually try to let the dealer do one or two items on our Trooper when we take it in for warranty work. As of now, our Trooper doesn't need much-- I've changed the ATF, front & rear differential fluid, engine oil, and TOD fluid myself pretty recently (see previous posts for very humorous ATF fiasco).

I don't really want to spend too much at the dealer. Any suggestions?

Power steering fluid (haven't replaced it yet)? Spark plugs? Etc.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

sdc2 · January 2002

It could be the intake manifold gasket, your symptoms are similar to mine. I also had a surging idle upon initial start-up in the morning. This time I popped the hood and could easily hear the hissing of the manifold leak while it was idling. Couldn't really hear it with the hood closed, though.

bluedevils · January 2002

Well we got an appointment today and the dealer has already replaced the "upper intake gasket" under the powertrain warranty. I don't know much about this stuff-- is "upper intake gasket" something different than the "intake manifold gasket?"

I am very pleased that the dealer had an immediate appointment and corrected this (hopefully) so quickly.

sdc2 · January 2002

Yep, I believe that's the same thing as intake manifold gasket.

breakor · January 2002

Check posts 1224 through 1252.

Be sure and let us know the brand and condition of your old plugs after you make the change.

troop2shos · January 2002

Late yesterday afternoon my wife '00 LTD had the check engine light come on & took it to the dealer. The dealer had the Trooper ready by 10:00 AM having to replace the accelerator switch / sensor - code P1274 on the scan.

paisan · January 2002

Hadthat on mine.

-mike

beer47 · January 2002

Informal survey; When are you (did you) plan on changing your timing belt? And how much did you pay? I plan on going way past 100K if I'm able to do so. Is the wear and tear strickly a mileage thing, and/or time, and/or driving habits? A smooth driver compared to a 4 wheelin' jack rabbit. I am interested to hear everyones' experience and opinions. Cheers!

paisan · January 2002

Beer47, depending on model, I'd suggest you have it done on time. Basically when the timing belt goes, there is 1) no warning 2) no way out of it exept with a tow.

If you have an interference engine, which all the DOHC engines are and some of the SOHC IIRC, you will basically blow up the engine, the valve-train smacks into the pistons and can cost many $1K to repair. I believe all the current subies have 105K replacement schedules on the timing belts. My XT6 was due at 60K to be changed, I waited until 74K when it snapped and I was left stranded in the cold rain.

After that I plan on changing mine 5K before they are due, cause being stuck w/o a car in the middle of no-where is not fun.

-mike

armtdm · January 2002

These are easy to get to and relatively inexpensive compared to a transverse engine set up.

Have it done and forget about it breaking.

ricksrl · January 2002

Suddenly we are having a problem with the factory cd changer. Does anyone know what the error codes are? Getting #1 and #3 when loading discs. Seems to be positions 4, 5, and 6 that are effected. Thanks.

Rick
'00 Trooper

arktrooper1 · January 2002

my cd changer refused to play discs intermittently, last october when my 2000 S was 14 mos old...fortunately it decided to spit out the discs that it was holding hostage before i took it in...afterthat, til i took it to the dealer, i played one at a time to be safethe dealer ordered me a new unit on friday morning and i had it exchanged with the old by the next wednesday...the only hitch was, i had a one cd in the changer which both the dealer and i forgot about...if cd's are stuck in the changer (which goes back to fujitsu in california for refurb)it is the policy to either return them in 4 - 6 wks or to replace the cd's that are damaged....i confirmed this with isuzu corporate in california before i called the dealer...i got my cd back, undamaged, almost five weeks to the day...the reason it takes awhile is the cd players sit until their turn to be refurbed....no big price to pay to have a new unit within less than a week, in my opinion...good luck!...i hope you get as good service as i feel i did...Dave

dielectric7bb · January 2002

I have heard from many different sources that in-dash cd changers (no matter what model) have a tendency of jamming up very easily. Homemade burned cd's are typically much thicker than regular store bought cds (and adding a printed label makes them even thicker) and are fairly easy to get stuck. I had the parts service manager at my Isuzu dealership tell me that he would not install one if he were me, and he also told me that he purposely didn't get the in-dash cd changer on his Trooper. He said he had seen way too many needing replacement due to jamming.

paisan · January 2002

I've had mine in the 2000 Trooper LS no problems even off-roading it.

-mike

ricksrl · January 2002

Seems strange that it would suddenly act up. I do play mostly CD I've burned at home. I'll try loading it with store bought and see if it makes any difference.
I can always eject the CDs, they just refuse to play and I get the error code.
I have already pulled the changer out to remove a stuck CD, but that was some time ago.
Go figure!

paisan · January 2002

I have had some problems with burned CDs, but only 1 or 2 of all the ones I have. Also when burning them make sure to "close cd" or it may not play properly.

-mike

cwmoser · January 2002

A friend of mine has a 1999 Toyota Sienna and the dealer tells him that his engine needs to be replaced because it has "Oil Sludge". His Sienna has 60,000 miles on it. Hearing this, I got on the Internet and noted that there is much commentary about Oil Sludge problems with the Sienna, Camry, Lexus, and other Toyota products.

So, being a little paranoid about this, I uncapped the oil filler on my Trooper and Mercedes and looked down inside -- all seemed clean too me. When the wife came home with the Sienna, I did similarly but noted that the area just inside where the oil filler cap goes on appeared quite dirty - not like the cleanliness of the other 2 vehicles. The oil appeared clean and clear though.

My questions:
- anyone know more facts about "oil sludge"
- how do you detect if you have a problem
- have you heard of your friends who have Toyotas talking about this
- does synthetic oil stop sludge buildup

The posts I see on the Internet state that Toyota will not stand behind this and claim that it was due to neglicant maintenance. My friend says he had the oil changed every 3-4k miles and has receipts proving it. He also said that a friend of his in the car business states that this is a widely know design problem with Toyota engines. You guys heard of this?

breakor · January 2002

Toyotas being sludge prone was news to me.

You might try the following link that I found for more information - http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge%20Zone.html

cwmoser · January 2002

It appears to be all over the Internet in a lot of Toyota chat groups.

breakor · January 2002

Did you try the link? It and its "sublinks" had the answers to all your questions.

cwmoser · January 2002

breakor - thanks for the links. Wow, there sure are a lot of them. I suspect that Toyota has a design problem on their hands. My wife's Sienna runs ok now but my friends is sludged and will need a new motor.

On my wife's Sienna, I removed the oil filler cap and looked into the engine and it don't appear to be as clean as my other 2 cars. Course, the Sienna has almost 50k miles while the others have around 35k each.

I sure don't need a major engine problem and with this information will *carefully* monitor the oil change schedule. In fact, on the Sienna, I'm going to put it on a 2,000 mile oil change interval.

fiveharpers · January 2002

I found the information about the sludge problems when I was researching for vehicles. It turned me off on the Sienna. The affordable vehicles that seemed to have the least issues reported were the Isuzus and Nissans. The Troopers are a super great value for the price, so that is why we bought our Isuzu Trooper. If I had the Sienna then I would definitely be using Mobil 1 Synthetic or better, as my research also shows that the synthetic reduce oil sludging problems.

cwmoser · January 2002

More on Oil Sludge at http://www.aera.org/Techside/enginesludge.htm

Yes, we purchased our last 2 vehicles, 1999 Trooper, and 1999 Toyota Sienna, with the thinking that we were buying high quality maintenace free, and long lasting vehicles. I'm pretty sure we were right with the Trooper, but from the numerous items I found on the Internet when I did a search on "Toyota Oil Sludge" and "Sienna Oil Sludge" has made me think that the *perception* I had of Toyota was completely wrong. I don't have a sludge problem in our Sienna and hope it does not occur but a friend of mine says his Sienna has been diagnosed as being "sludged". My perception of Toyota was that you pay a little more for a vehicle, even though it lacked many creature conforts of similar vehicles, and you get Toyota's vaulted reliability where you can drive your Toyota well past 150,000 miles relatively trouble free.

This "Oil Sludge" problem, if indeed Toyota has a design problem, could turn out to be massive consumer migration away from Toyota because of perceived reliability problems.

Our Sienna has 49,000 miles on it and has always used regular 10w30 -- think Synthetic Oil makes sense now?

paisan · January 2002

I believe they are starting to get the Honda effect, which was that in the 80s and early 90s Honda made outstanding cars, then in the mid-late 90s they realized they could slack off and people would still buy them even at higher prices, due to their reputation. I feel Toyota has started to fall into this same cycle.

-mike

paisan · January 2002

I'd go with synthetic on it personally.

-mike

cwmoser · January 2002

Would you start with Synthetic Oil at 49,000 miles?

paisan · January 2002

I just put my dad's legacy with 60K miles on it and his hyundai sonata on it with 50K. If you get oil leaks you may need to go back to non-synthetic, but you shouldn't get any leaks.

-mike

armtdm · January 2002

I switched current Rodeo at 58,000 miles. I also switched others at 50,000, 30,00 etc. Leaks no, but seepage may or may not occur but if it does it may also go away after 5000 miles as the oil cleans up the gunk and seals again. Seepage rarely drips to ground. My Isuzu seeped prior to purchase with dino so synthetic was not the cause.

On the Rodeo first change was at 3000 after synthetic put in, analysis fine then went to 7,500 analysis still fine but due to shorter trips I may stick with the 7,500 between changes. Used about 1/2 quart during the 7,500 period which is maybe use and seepage. Minimal.

Run another car to 12,000 mile changes. My 92 Camry V6 goes 7,500 between changes (141,000 miles now) another once a year but that is 8-10,000 miles only.

cwmoser · January 2002

None of the following vehicles have used synthetic oil:

1983 Mercedes - 34,000 miles
1999 Isuzu Trooper - 35,000 miles
1999 Toyota Sienna - 49,000 miles

Again, all appear to be mechanically ok but have never used synthetic oil. Would you go with say Mobil-1 in all of these?

Also, is Mobil-1 synthetic really a better oil as far as elimination of oil sludge buildup?

Also - synthetic in an 18hp lawn tractor that does not use an oil filter?

armtdm · January 2002

But when I started using synthetics 10 years ago I never believed the claims of exctended drains. So, I started by changing the oil and 3000 and having it analyzed and have gradually built up a comfort level so that based upon the type of driving on a particular car I can determine when to change. Other then my twin turbo toy the minimum interval for me is 7,500 miles and that includes two daily commuters. More highway car goes to 12,000. My toy because it is a twin trubo and gets liitle use is 5000 but that has now or will be a year since the last change.

I would switch to synthetic on any engine under 100,000. Over that and running fine I may leave it alone. On the Sienna, due to the many reports of sludging on these I would probably go 5000-7,500 between changes. Mobil 1 is a fine oil. I use Amsoil only because I started with it and the person I get it from has inventory, no shipping charges, and for my $20/year fee I get it for $4.35/qt. With 5 cars to service it is worth it for me.

The 97 Rodeo I switched at 58,000 is running fine. It did and does have a yellowish coating on in the oil filler neck area and inside of the valve cover that I was hoping the synthetic would remove, not sludge but a very fine varnish so to speak. To date after 14,000 miles of synthetic usage the color is still there but runs fien and analysis has been fine.

The engine had two oil seepages upon purchase which remain with the synthetic, I just can't seem to locate where they are coming from, one above the alternator and another above the oil pan. Oh well, it is pretty minimal seepage.

fiveharpers · January 2002

cwmoser - Edmunds has a great discussion going in the Town Hall forums about Synthetic Oils. It is located under the maintenance and repair topic. After going through these, I was convinced that synthetics are the way to go and Mobil 1 was good choice considering the quality for the cost. Anyway you may want read through that discussion if this interest you.

bluedevils · January 2002

most folks who are interested in, or knowledgeable about, synthetic oil will say that it's fine to switch on lower-mileage engines. This means different mileage to different people, but at 50k miles or so you are probably safe to switch, as armtdm has pointed out.

bluedevils · January 2002

I am still a big proponent of Toyota and Honda vehicles, having owned a rock-solid '91 Camry (never should have sold it) and driven an '89 CRX Si that lasted 170k miles. If buying a new or late-model used vehicle today, I would give strong consideration to both brands. But I totally agree with paisan's post #1381. It's hard for an average consumer to prove, but my perception is that Toyota and Honda vehicles have fallen off in two major areas:

1) Initial quality - For example, the 1992-1996 Camry is widely regarded in the automotive press to be built better, with higher-quality materials, than the new model that replaced it in '97. The '92-'96 Camry is much closer to the same-year Lexus ES300 than the '97-'01 Camry.

2) Long-term quality/reliability - Over the long run, I don't think the current Toyotas and Hondas are holding up as well as their mid '80s to mid '90s brethren. My perception is that there more problems are popping up with the newer vehicles than on the earlier vehicles.

I agree with paisan on the reason why this has happened: Honda and Toyota realized they could cut a few corners and produce vehicles of lower quality, but still gain market share from other brands, especially the American brands.

Like fiveharpers, my preference is to identify and purchase vehicles such as the Trooper that provide high quality/long-term reliability at a lower initial cost (i.e. better value) than the Hondas and Toyotas of the world. Several Nissans fit this bill, as do some of the Subarus (though they've gotten rather pricey in the last 3-4 years.).

When it comes time to replace our 98 Trooper with a minivan, I have my eye on the first-generation Honda Odyssey/Isuzu Oasis. Much cheaper, and from what I can tell, much better quality than the current-generation Honda Odyssey.

bluedevils · January 2002

Mark me down as another person who has heard plenty about this problem via the internet in the past couple years. It was shocking and disappointing to hear. The worst part is that Toyota seems to deny there is a design problem. This is not a total shock, though. A company like Toyota, which in my opinion has an even better reputation for quality than Honda, cannot afford to admit something like 'hey, the 3.0L V6 that's in lots of our vehicles has had sludge problems for the last 10 model years.'

They should admit this, but most companies in their shoes probably would not.

Is this problem just with the 3.0L V6 that's gone into the Camry and Sienna (and others?), or is it exhibited in other engines too?

paisan · January 2002

I believe hyundai is on it's way up as far as quality. Of all the people who have bought in the past 3-5 years I've heard little complaints about them and IMHO the XG300/350 has quite solid build quality. If I were going to buy a commuter car today, it would almost definitely be a low end hyundai. The price/performance is there.

-mike

sbcooke · January 2002

Aren't some Toyota engines GM's? I thought I read something about that somewhere? I don't know if it is the sludge'rs in question, but maybe there is a correlation?

sdc2 · January 2002

I too felt that Hyundai was making big strides in improving the quality of their vehicles...then I read a recent article about numerous engine failures in the Santa Fe SUVs.

Hopefully they will stand behind their warranty and fix the problems, unlike Toyota is apparently doing with this sludge deal.

bluedevils · January 2002

Agree with paisan - Hyundai quality is really improving. I am positive on several of their vehicles: XG350, Santa Fe, Sonata, and Elantra. The Elantra GT 5-door is a TREMENDOUS value - $13k base price for a lot of equipment and 140hp). Great warranty, low price, plus improving quality = good choice.

If we buy a new vehicle in the next couple years I will be considering Hyundai. I also will probably consider the new Kia Sedona minivan. Sounds like a great package for the money.

The Santa Fe engine issues concerns me, though this is the first I've heard of it. Hyundai is now putting the Santa Fe's 2.7L V6 in the Sonata but that's a new change for MY 2002, IIRC.

paisan · January 2002

If Hyundai brings over the Terracan, I'll definitely be buying that.

-mike

spirolli · January 2002

I have had this annoying rattle/tapping in the front windshield for over a year on my 2000 Trooper Ltd. It sounds like metal being tapped against the front windshield. It is effected by the amount of wind, since I hear it more when I passing a truck or the faster I go. It only occurs when the temperature is lower then 45 degrees and at speeds over 60MPH. This makes me think it's something rubber (modling around windshield) which gets harder in the cold and begins to tap. This does not occur when the temperature is over 45 degrees.

It actually sounds like metal tapping against the outside windshield. I have had it back to dealer at least 3 times. They have never been able to reproduce the sound which drives me crazy since I can typically produce the sound on demand when the conditions are right. I have tried to take matters into my own hands by adding adhesive to the front windshield outside molding thinking that's where the tap was coming from. This did not correct the problem. I have checked the hood, the side panels, just about everything I could think of. Nothing seems to work and I cant find anything loose. I checked the brake lines that run against the fire wall and they are tight. I checked any wires handing underneath the hood and underneath the car and they are all tight.

The sound always takes me back to the front windshield..!

On my last visit to the dealership for a State Inspection/Oil Change ect, the best they could tell me is that Isuzu has reported that there is a "spot weld" problem in the front pillars with some of the 2000 Troopers and that there was no reported fix. That can be the cause of my sound. Sounds like a heap of [non-permissible content removed] to me.

Any idea's.

paisan · January 2002

Did you have the fuel line recall done? There were some reports that in cold weather the fuel line was tapping against the firewall. Also could it be something loose under the dash? Someone on here had a screw under the dash loose that sound like a metal tapping. The weld thing does sound likea crock.

-mike

fiveharpers · January 2002

My gut feeling on the overall decline in reliability of all vehicles over the past six years is the enormous amount of electronics, sensors and computers within the vehicles of today. So many more points of failure. The transmissions have so much going on inside depending on sensors and computers that a glitch somewhere may lead to all kinds of real damage. The other theory I have is when the economy was so good that the car manufacturers felt new cars would sell fast and consistently, so they could cut corners to produce better profits instead of better products.

Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

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