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Comments
-mike
They show something that looks to me like what I see under the truck as a center differential--is this the TOD system?--SORRY to be dense about this.
Are the transfer case oils and TOD oils separate?
Also, I haven't even thought about the transmission oil yet. Also, what looks like the TOD unit to me is protected by a skid plate. Bluedevils, how do you get to the plugs--or is the transfer case drain plug as shown in the manual (under auto trans) the TOD drain plug?
The manual also describes checking the shift on the fly (SOTF) oil. Apparantly the fill plug is on the right side and adjacent to the CV joint boots. I haven't looked to see if mine has this plug or not. Gear oil is supposed to be checked there every 15k miles.
Anyways, any input into this would be appreciated.
Cheers.
A/T: uses A/T Fluid, not gear oil.
TOD: uses A/T Fluid
rear Diffy: Uses gear oil + LSD additive
front Diffy: Uses gear oil
That is it as far as I know it.
-mike
The TOD unit REPLACES the standard transfer case. The reason they are both in the manual is because the 5-speed manual transmission base models in 99 had a regular transfer case, not a TOD unit.
The manual does a very poor job of explaining this.
thanks for your insight--how did you determine it?
-mike
You may also notice that the manual does not have a recommended change interval for the TOD fluid on the service schedule. In other words, you may not need to change it.
Having said that, I do intend to change mine every 50K or so, along with the tranny (which also doesn't have a recommended change on the schedule).
Hope to see you there.
-mike
There is NOT a skid plate covering the TOD unit. It's very accessible with the truck flat on the ground. Pink fluid came out when I drained mine, so it's definitely ATF, not engine oil!
I don't know about '99 Troopers, but in '98 there were 3 different powertrain combinations:
*Manual trans with shift-on-the-fly 4WD (transfer case, no TOD unit)
*Auto trans with SOTF 4WD (in the base "S" models)
*Auto trans with TOD (TOD unit, no 'regular' transfer case).
Eventually (in 1999 or 2000), TOD became standard with auto trans, but for 98 and possibly 99, TOD was part of the Performance Package.
Yes, the owners manual is very confusing! It's pathetic.
I need to take some pics of this soon to help explain things better.
-mike
Thanks,
Kathy
http://isuzu-suvs.com
-mike
ITOG members have contributed plenty of good info on maintenance and repair of first generation Troopers (85 thru 91).
Good luck, Marty
95 Trooper LS
Kathy
I was under the impression that when Paisan originally had trouble, he had put a different sized tire on the front. Is that correct? Anyway, it doesn't really matter.
What makes sense is that different sized tires on the rear would create problems for the rear differential, not the TOD unit. With different sized tires on the rear, the limited slip clutches would be in a constant state of slip, which could create noise. But, theoretically, going around corners should cause the same whine if the axles are turning at different rates.
The part that confuses me is the part about the noise going away when TOD is disengaged. Assuming you are going in a straight line (with all 4 tires the same size), the TOD always applies some torque to the front axle. Even if the TOD "thinks" the rears are slipping with different sized tires, its only response is to increase the torque to the front axle. In a straight line, this doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Even in a turn, it shouldn't matter because of the front differential action.
Bottom line--whether or not the TOD "thinks" there is slippage at the rears, it shouldn't make noise. Otherwise, if the odd sized tire theory was accurate, the TOD should make noise whenever the rear tires really slip or when you go around a corner with the TOD engaged.
The rear differential, on the other hand, might start to make noise if the clutches were constantly slipping against one another.
I am interested in hearing from some other mechanically-inclined types why different sized tires would cause the TOD to make noise. I am not calling anyone a liar, but there does not seem to be any mechanical reason why having TOD engaged with two different sized rear tires would make noise.
Regards,
Tom
The LSD is not going to cause much binding because the LSD on the Troopers is a pretty loose one. Loose meaning that it takes a lot of slip for it to engage. I had an opportunity to test this out on a nice icey driveway/parking lot @ my house upstate over the winter. The LSD would only really take effect if you yanked the hand brake up about 2 clicks which would pre-load the lsd to engage.
As for the noise in TOD, I've rear numerous posts across the subaru boards about a driveline whine when driving with a tire of the incorrect size on it while in AWD mode. In fact, on the automatic transmission models of the subarus, there is a fuse you need to put in under the hood when driving with the spare donut tire on which disengages the rear axle and makes the car FWD. This is to prevent the smaller tire from binding the front and rear axles.
Don't forget that the TOD unit doesn't change the speeds of the axles, it merely shifts torque from one to the other so that the speeds of both axles will be equal. If you have a tire of the wrong size, that equilibrium will never be reached. The TOD unit will constantly be striving to reach an equilibrium that it can't reach due to the tires being different diameters.
-mike
Thanks for your comments, Paisan.
Regards,
Tom
-mike
As long as I am on St. Charles, for those that may not know, let me note that they have very good prices (e.g. Isuzu oil filters for $3.55 delivered to your door). Also, as I understand it they do not ship the items themselves. Instead they transmit the orders to either of the 2 Isuzu warehouses here in the States. The warehouses then ship the items directly to you. The advantage of this system is that if the item is in America it will be shipped to you.
For what it is worth my experience is as follows. PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT A TRAINED ISUZU TECHNICIAN. INSTEAD I AM JUST A DIY GUY TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING. USE THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.
For a routine preventative flush I would first get a plunger style fluid pump and 3 1-gallon size Dexron III ATF jugs. The quart ones will work but will take much longer and cost more.
Round up some old buckets, jugs, cat litter pans, etc. to catch the old fluid. Plenty of paper towels for wiping up drips is also a good idea.
Place a pan under the transmission and remove the drain plug. The other plug about 8 inches to the passenger side and slightly higher up is the fill/level check plug. You will drain about 1 gallon of ATF.
Remove the two 12 mm bolts holding the metal plate under the oil filter (this isn't 100% necessary but well worth the extra minute to get much easier access). There are 2 lines coming off the bottom of the radiator on the passenger side. The outer one is the ATF return line. Follow this line towards the transmission about 1'. There is a connection here held in place with a squeeze type clamp. Place a catch pan under this. Remove the clamp and disconnect the line. Very little fluid will actually drip at this point.
Add some clear tubing to the line from the radiator and run that into a clear jug in a bucket (to catch drips/overflows).
Put your new ATF jug in a bucket to catch any pump or line drips. Put the pump in the jug and hook the tubing from the pump to the transmission return line. Pep Boys pump tubing is an exact fit (both diameter and length). Now pump new ATF until new clean fluid runs out the drain plug and into your catch pan. This will only take 2 or 3 pumps. Then replace the drain plug.
At this point, as I have drained out about 1 gal of fluid from the system, I pump in a little over 1 gal of new ATF.
Now I started the car in park. The car then pumps used ATF through the transmission, out of the radiator, through my tubing and into the empty clear jug. The reason for the clear jug is to see when the jug is about to overflow. As the car is pumping ATF through the cooler and into the waste jug I pump on my Pep Boys pump to add fluid back to the transmission. I found that I can pump in about 1/4 gal of new fluid while the car pumps out about 1/2 gal. Rather than run the risk of running too low in ATF I shut off the engine at about the 1/2 gallon drained mark and pump in the other 1/4 gal and just a little bit more. I then restart the engine and the drain/pump cycle.
When the waste jug is about full shut off the engine and get a new clear catch jug. Pump in the rest of your 1 gal of new fluid and switch to new jug and add a little more. To review, at this point I have drained 1 gallon and added 1+ gal of ATF. The car has pumped out I gallon and I have added back 1+ gallon (2+ gallons total).
Next, Start your engine and continue this pump and refill cycle until the fluid being drained looks brand new. At some point during the process I would also shift the transmission into each gear. A helper makes this process much easier.
At about the 9qt total ATF added mark clear fluid started to come out the return line so I stopped the engine.
Next do some careful eyeball measuring. Find out precisely how much ATF you drained and how much you added. My plan is to add slightly more ATF than I drained. Before disconnecting my fill line I add more ATF to be sure that I do. The theory being that it is easier to drain out slightly too much fluid than to add more (see below).
Next, I remake all my ATF connections. Surprisingly I lose very little ATF doing this.
Next comes the part that will leave you wishing you had a trans dipstick. In order to check the level you have to crawl back under the vehicle and remove that other downfacing plug (the one 8 inches to the passenger side and slightly higher). The level is correct if fluid just seeps out of that plug hole. The trick is that this is only true once the transmission has warmed up (the car also has to be on a level surface) and the car is running. So, I warm up the car by driving it around a couple of minutes and putting it through all the gears. I then crawl under with my catch pan in place and pull the plug with the car running. The last time I did this about 1/2 pint came out and I reinstalled the plug. Presumably if nothing came out I would have pumped more fluid in through this hole. I am not sure if leaving in that extra 1/2 pint would have caused any long term problems
Don't forget to reinstall the metal plate, wipe up any drips and closely check for leaks the next few days.
Again, use at your own discretion, your mileage may vary.
-mike
Asked about Axiom vs. Trooper engine. He said besides the software, intake and exhaust area were modifed (increased?) to boost HP, but Isuzu is not disclosing details. I'm not very much into technical stuff, so that's all I understood.
If anyone is interested in his shop located in Fountain Valley, CA, his site address is:
www.isuzusuv.com
...Eiji...
Tom
-mike
-mike