Isuzu Owners Maintenance and Repair

paisan · April 2001

Can you e-mail me the removal and install isntructions for the website? (maybe what size sockets etc...) Thanks.

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

I presume that sv650 is having all this done under warranty--i.e. new rear axle etc. I was under my truck yesterday and saw a bracket bolted to the under body from the frame. This is likely the body bolt on the trooper. It seemed to have a large rubber O-ring on it--so I guest this is a likely thing to change for that type of problem. I would keep working with the dealer. It seems that the dealer is trying to get it right.

gpm5 · April 2001

I've looked at the manual and at back posts and under my '99 trooper with TOD, and I must say it certainly is confusing as to what is what without a proper service manual. If anyone has a manual showing the auto trans with TOD it might be nice for us to get that description/image on Paisan's web site. When I look at my manual there is a section on Auto transmissions (8-18 and 8-19). They talk about transfer case oil (SAE 5W-30SF). I have the small pan with a plug that looks like what they show. They also under this section describe the TOD system as something separate--right or not??

They show something that looks to me like what I see under the truck as a center differential--is this the TOD system?--SORRY to be dense about this.

Are the transfer case oils and TOD oils separate?

Also, I haven't even thought about the transmission oil yet. Also, what looks like the TOD unit to me is protected by a skid plate. Bluedevils, how do you get to the plugs--or is the transfer case drain plug as shown in the manual (under auto trans) the TOD drain plug?

The manual also describes checking the shift on the fly (SOTF) oil. Apparantly the fill plug is on the right side and adjacent to the CV joint boots. I haven't looked to see if mine has this plug or not. Gear oil is supposed to be checked there every 15k miles.

Anyways, any input into this would be appreciated.

Cheers.

paisan · April 2001

IIRC...

A/T: uses A/T Fluid, not gear oil.
TOD: uses A/T Fluid
rear Diffy: Uses gear oil + LSD additive
front Diffy: Uses gear oil

That is it as far as I know it.

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

That is different from the A/T or the front diff. That takes less than a qt of gear oil and is up front near the front skid plate and the CV boot.

sdc2 · April 2001

This also confused me initially when I read my owners manual, but here is the skinny:

The TOD unit REPLACES the standard transfer case. The reason they are both in the manual is because the 5-speed manual transmission base models in 99 had a regular transfer case, not a TOD unit.

The manual does a very poor job of explaining this.

gpm5 · April 2001

okay thanks --just wondering a little more about the manual-- details of the transfer case appear under auto trans as item 9 and then TOD is under auto trans as item 10. Is the TOD fluid drained from the part that looks like the transfer case pan in the manual?--they say in the manual to use SAE oil in that part but presumably that would be ATF.

thanks for your insight--how did you determine it?

paisan · April 2001

Yes the TOD unit repalces the T-case on vehicles with the TOD. I'll have to check my manual tonight and see what it says in '00 about all this.

-mike

sdc2 · April 2001

is ATF. IF you had the regular transfer case you would use motor oil, but you don't have to worry about that.

You may also notice that the manual does not have a recommended change interval for the TOD fluid on the service schedule. In other words, you may not need to change it.

Having said that, I do intend to change mine every 50K or so, along with the tranny (which also doesn't have a recommended change on the schedule).

paisan · April 2001

Isuzu Chat Tonight 10pm -11pm EST.

Hope to see you there.

-mike

bluedevils · April 2001

I think all of what's been said in the last 5 or so posts is correct: TOD unit replaces transfer case, TOD unit takes auto trans fluid, not engine oil, etc.

There is NOT a skid plate covering the TOD unit. It's very accessible with the truck flat on the ground. Pink fluid came out when I drained mine, so it's definitely ATF, not engine oil!

I don't know about '99 Troopers, but in '98 there were 3 different powertrain combinations:

*Manual trans with shift-on-the-fly 4WD (transfer case, no TOD unit)

*Auto trans with SOTF 4WD (in the base "S" models)

*Auto trans with TOD (TOD unit, no 'regular' transfer case).

Eventually (in 1999 or 2000), TOD became standard with auto trans, but for 98 and possibly 99, TOD was part of the Performance Package.

Yes, the owners manual is very confusing! It's pathetic.

I need to take some pics of this soon to help explain things better.

paisan · April 2001

Mine has a skid plate.

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

I think the unit has a skid plate but the pan with a drain plug just in front of it does not.

katewa · April 2001

Hi - somewhere I read that a particular head on late 80's - early 90's troopers was prone to cracking but I can't find the messages. What can any of you tell me about this problem and how to avoid having the same trouble when buying a re-mfg'd head.

Thanks,

Kathy

paisan · April 2001

Try posting up on the Outdoor Wire board. They are very knowledgeable especially about older Troopers. You can find a link at

http://isuzu-suvs.com

-mike

mtrionfo · April 2001

Kathy - You can do extensive searching on older Troopers at http://www.ITOG.com (Int'l Trooper Owners Guild). Off the ITOG homepage, go to Discussions, then search each of the Archives numbered 1, 2 and 3.

ITOG members have contributed plenty of good info on maintenance and repair of first generation Troopers (85 thru 91).

Good luck, Marty

95 Trooper LS

katewa · April 2001

Thanks, Marty for the info. ITOG was where I originally read about the problem. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Kathy

gpm5 · April 2001

Okay, I gave a good look under my '99 TOD trooper. This is what I saw. The oil pan is 1st toward the front with a single drain plug. The next large pan appears to me to be the auto transmission pan. (Bluedevils, you may have been changing the fluid in that) The owners manual does not show the auto trans fill and drain plugs on this pan (it only shows a schematic for the manual transmission). The TOD unit has the front and rear drive shafts from the front and rear diffs entering into it. It has a large skid plate on it. You can see that skid plate under the truck in the picture of my trooper in the photos section or at Paisan's site. The back of that unit is marked Borg-Warner (they are the manufacturer of the TOD unit). There is also a schematic showing the back of that unit under the TOD section under Auto Trans in the owners manual. The back of the TOD unit has a labeled fill plug and a drain plug and each small plug has a square set-in space (similar ro an allen wrench bolt) for a square-wrench. The fill plug indicates to use ATF II or III.

sdc2 · April 2001

I think the AT fill/drain holes are on the side of the tranny, not on the pan...

wheels13 · April 2001

Hey guys, have any of you tried replacing those $200.00 each rear mud flaps that break off in the snow and cold? Stupid design wherein they have to be painted because they are also part of the bumper. No wonder insurance cost are high.

gpm5 · April 2001

Well, there are definitely two plugs on the large pan behind the oil pan. Since the TOD unit plugs are clearly marked, this seems to only leave these to being the Auto/trans plugs. Presumbably, the transfer case is part of the TOD unit?, and this would eliminate these from being the transfrer case fill/drain plugs--unless there are two spots to fill the TOD unit--one possibly involving the transfer case assembly. The trans diagram does show drain plugs on the transmission in the owners manual but this is under the section for a manual transmission.

gpm5 · April 2001

Mine are black heavy vinyl/formed plastic, and I use armorall on them. I think the fronts require a strange sort of star wrench and the backs use regular screws. I've though that people may want to take them off or use cheaper ones for heavy duty offroad driving.

serrano · April 2001

I'm interested in discussing this issue again, as it doesn't make sense to me mechanically.

I was under the impression that when Paisan originally had trouble, he had put a different sized tire on the front. Is that correct? Anyway, it doesn't really matter.

What makes sense is that different sized tires on the rear would create problems for the rear differential, not the TOD unit. With different sized tires on the rear, the limited slip clutches would be in a constant state of slip, which could create noise. But, theoretically, going around corners should cause the same whine if the axles are turning at different rates.

The part that confuses me is the part about the noise going away when TOD is disengaged. Assuming you are going in a straight line (with all 4 tires the same size), the TOD always applies some torque to the front axle. Even if the TOD "thinks" the rears are slipping with different sized tires, its only response is to increase the torque to the front axle. In a straight line, this doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Even in a turn, it shouldn't matter because of the front differential action.

Bottom line--whether or not the TOD "thinks" there is slippage at the rears, it shouldn't make noise. Otherwise, if the odd sized tire theory was accurate, the TOD should make noise whenever the rear tires really slip or when you go around a corner with the TOD engaged.

The rear differential, on the other hand, might start to make noise if the clutches were constantly slipping against one another.

I am interested in hearing from some other mechanically-inclined types why different sized tires would cause the TOD to make noise. I am not calling anyone a liar, but there does not seem to be any mechanical reason why having TOD engaged with two different sized rear tires would make noise.

Regards,
Tom

sbcooke · April 2001

I was under my truck today looking and spray painting some rust spots. I found a big dent in the gas tank skid plate. I unbolted it and checked out the tank. Not a scratch. I am not sure that what if anything I should do, but I am sure glad I had strong skid plated when I was going through a mud bog the other week!

paisan · April 2001

I had my right rear tire get an ir-repairable flat at about 10K miles. So i threw on one of my 684 Duellers 245-70-16 from my Rodeo (same size, same style, similar wear) I was getting all kinds of problems with my TOD. Whine, problems engaging and disengaging the 4wd Lo. I figured it was probably something wrong with the TOD unit or the front Differential. Not the case, my dealer measured the diameter of the tires and found the right rear (the one I replaced) to be 1/2" smaller in diameter. He changed it out for the spare tire which was new and the whining, and dis-engaging problems went away. I didn't believe it at first, but it was true. Because I took the spare off the back and put it back in the same spote it was in (this tire being the smaller in diameter one) and the noise came back. I then put the proper tire back onto the car and the noise left. Then i aired down the left rear tire so that it was pretty much at least 1/2" smaller in diameter, and the noise came back. Only in TOD.

The LSD is not going to cause much binding because the LSD on the Troopers is a pretty loose one. Loose meaning that it takes a lot of slip for it to engage. I had an opportunity to test this out on a nice icey driveway/parking lot @ my house upstate over the winter. The LSD would only really take effect if you yanked the hand brake up about 2 clicks which would pre-load the lsd to engage.

As for the noise in TOD, I've rear numerous posts across the subaru boards about a driveline whine when driving with a tire of the incorrect size on it while in AWD mode. In fact, on the automatic transmission models of the subarus, there is a fuse you need to put in under the hood when driving with the spare donut tire on which disengages the rear axle and makes the car FWD. This is to prevent the smaller tire from binding the front and rear axles.

Don't forget that the TOD unit doesn't change the speeds of the axles, it merely shifts torque from one to the other so that the speeds of both axles will be equal. If you have a tire of the wrong size, that equilibrium will never be reached. The TOD unit will constantly be striving to reach an equilibrium that it can't reach due to the tires being different diameters.

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

That is good to hear. I wonder if some of these other 'SUVs' might incur damage to the gas tanks (do any of them use plastic tanks?) and what about the undermounted spares.

serrano · April 2001

Upon further reflection and Paisan's comments, the TOD "whine" could be caused by driveline bind. It's just like taking a corner on a dry surface when 4Lo is engaged. The smaller diameter tire causes the rear driveshaft to rotate at a different rate than the front. Thus, TOD has difficulty engaging because the driveline speeds cannot be matched. When the TOD is engaged, the TOD clutches are in a constant state of slip, as if you were turning in a circle constantly. Thus, the whine. I guess I can buy that explanation.

Thanks for your comments, Paisan.

Regards,
Tom

paisan · April 2001

I could be completely wrong but that is my best guess explaination

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

Does anyone have a best guess or a repair manual for what the large pan drain and fill plugs are on the '99 trooper auto TOD. As I indicated above the TOD drain and fill plugs are each a square allen type recessed bolt on the back of the TOD unit itself--where the back drive shaft enters into it. --the fill plug is labeled ATF II or III right below the Borg-Warner name.

central · April 2001

Gpm5 those are the auto transmission plugs. The lower one is the drain plug. The upper one is the fill/check plug. Just be careful if you do a fluid level check yourself. As I understand it the ATF has to be warm AND the transmission running otherwise you will loose about 1 quart of fluid when you pull the plug. Also, those have very funny gaskets (a rubber insert in a serrated inner edge) so you also run the risk of messing them up if you are not careful.

gpm5 · April 2001

thanks for the info. Yes, I recall your mentioning that now on a previous post awhile back. Are those washers/gaskets available readily from let's say St Charles Isuzu do you know? Pasian, you should post that info at your site for safe keeping.

gpm5 · April 2001

I looked back. armtdm describes the AT fluid change for the 3.2 L engine (97 rodeo) in post #382.

central · April 2001

As it turns out I did an ATF flush last week having previously ordered the gaskets from St. Charles. The gaskets I got were copper (with no rubber insert) just like the one on the oil drain plug. Now whether that is the new style or just a mistake by St. Charles, or me for not being clear in my order, I do not know. I do know however that by the time I noticed the difference I had already pulled the plugs so something had to go back. My theory at the time was that if the copper gasket is a mistake it should work anyhow as if it is good enough for the oil plug it is good enough for the ATF drain. So far this theory is working. Whether that is due to luck or good science I do not know.

As long as I am on St. Charles, for those that may not know, let me note that they have very good prices (e.g. Isuzu oil filters for $3.55 delivered to your door). Also, as I understand it they do not ship the items themselves. Instead they transmit the orders to either of the 2 Isuzu warehouses here in the States. The warehouses then ship the items directly to you. The advantage of this system is that if the item is in America it will be shipped to you.

central · April 2001

If you ask me the service in the reference post is not really much of a flush. It only gets out about half of the fluid. The rest of the fluid remains unflushed in the torque converter, lines and ATF cooler.

For what it is worth my experience is as follows. PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT A TRAINED ISUZU TECHNICIAN. INSTEAD I AM JUST A DIY GUY TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING. USE THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.

For a routine preventative flush I would first get a plunger style fluid pump and 3 1-gallon size Dexron III ATF jugs. The quart ones will work but will take much longer and cost more.

Round up some old buckets, jugs, cat litter pans, etc. to catch the old fluid. Plenty of paper towels for wiping up drips is also a good idea.

Place a pan under the transmission and remove the drain plug. The other plug about 8 inches to the passenger side and slightly higher up is the fill/level check plug. You will drain about 1 gallon of ATF.

Remove the two 12 mm bolts holding the metal plate under the oil filter (this isn't 100% necessary but well worth the extra minute to get much easier access). There are 2 lines coming off the bottom of the radiator on the passenger side. The outer one is the ATF return line. Follow this line towards the transmission about 1'. There is a connection here held in place with a squeeze type clamp. Place a catch pan under this. Remove the clamp and disconnect the line. Very little fluid will actually drip at this point.

Add some clear tubing to the line from the radiator and run that into a clear jug in a bucket (to catch drips/overflows).

Put your new ATF jug in a bucket to catch any pump or line drips. Put the pump in the jug and hook the tubing from the pump to the transmission return line. Pep Boys pump tubing is an exact fit (both diameter and length). Now pump new ATF until new clean fluid runs out the drain plug and into your catch pan. This will only take 2 or 3 pumps. Then replace the drain plug.

At this point, as I have drained out about 1 gal of fluid from the system, I pump in a little over 1 gal of new ATF.

Now I started the car in park. The car then pumps used ATF through the transmission, out of the radiator, through my tubing and into the empty clear jug. The reason for the clear jug is to see when the jug is about to overflow. As the car is pumping ATF through the cooler and into the waste jug I pump on my Pep Boys pump to add fluid back to the transmission. I found that I can pump in about 1/4 gal of new fluid while the car pumps out about 1/2 gal. Rather than run the risk of running too low in ATF I shut off the engine at about the 1/2 gallon drained mark and pump in the other 1/4 gal and just a little bit more. I then restart the engine and the drain/pump cycle.

When the waste jug is about full shut off the engine and get a new clear catch jug. Pump in the rest of your 1 gal of new fluid and switch to new jug and add a little more. To review, at this point I have drained 1 gallon and added 1+ gal of ATF. The car has pumped out I gallon and I have added back 1+ gallon (2+ gallons total).

Next, Start your engine and continue this pump and refill cycle until the fluid being drained looks brand new. At some point during the process I would also shift the transmission into each gear. A helper makes this process much easier.

At about the 9qt total ATF added mark clear fluid started to come out the return line so I stopped the engine.

Next do some careful eyeball measuring. Find out precisely how much ATF you drained and how much you added. My plan is to add slightly more ATF than I drained. Before disconnecting my fill line I add more ATF to be sure that I do. The theory being that it is easier to drain out slightly too much fluid than to add more (see below).

Next, I remake all my ATF connections. Surprisingly I lose very little ATF doing this.

Next comes the part that will leave you wishing you had a trans dipstick. In order to check the level you have to crawl back under the vehicle and remove that other downfacing plug (the one 8 inches to the passenger side and slightly higher). The level is correct if fluid just seeps out of that plug hole. The trick is that this is only true once the transmission has warmed up (the car also has to be on a level surface) and the car is running. So, I warm up the car by driving it around a couple of minutes and putting it through all the gears. I then crawl under with my catch pan in place and pull the plug with the car running. The last time I did this about 1/2 pint came out and I reinstalled the plug. Presumably if nothing came out I would have pumped more fluid in through this hole. I am not sure if leaving in that extra 1/2 pint would have caused any long term problems

Don't forget to reinstall the metal plate, wipe up any drips and closely check for leaks the next few days.

Again, use at your own discretion, your mileage may vary.

paisan · April 2001

Can you e-mail me mike@iace.com I want to snag your writeup to post on http://isuzu-suvs.com in the How-to section. Thanks.

-mike

gpm5 · April 2001

Great post central. Thanks for the info.

armtdm · May 2001

I did the drain and fill using synthetic fluid. By doing it more often I feel you get the same results (with only half the fluid being drained at a time and synthetic ) with a change every 20,000-30,000 miles and it is not such a large process. The filler plug is a bear and I had to mold a piece of plastic tubing to get it to stay in the filler hole while I pumped, hole on mine is straight up not on the side. True diluted fluid your method is better but much more complicated and definitely takes two people.

gpm5 · May 2001

When I was washing my trooper I noticed the front bumper seems a little loose at the bottom edges at the wrap around part on both sides. I did not recall this before the winter. Not sure if there are screws that have worked themselves out slightly. Anyone deal with this recently?

sbcooke · May 2001

There are 4 bolts that hold the front bumper in place. They attach directly to the frame.

bluedevils · May 2001

I don't know what your insurance costs are, but the 2 Troopers I've owned (96 "S" and 98 "S" with Performance Package) have been MUCH less expensive to insure than other SUVs I considered. The 98 Trooper is even less than our 98 Mitsu Galant sedan was, and it's about the same as our 95 Ford Contour SE sedan. The Trooper is rated much better than average in most insurance cost ratings (this info can be fairly tough to find, but I think CarPoint has some data in this area).

bluedevils · May 2001

I don't see how I could have been changing the AT fluid. I was able to drain only about 2 quarts of fluid, which is in line with the stated TOD fluid capacity. The AT fluid capacity is around 9 quarts and even though a typical drain won't get much more than half that, that would still be way more than 2 quarts.

gpm5 · May 2001

maybe the '98 is somehow different in terms of the plugs or ??

bluedevils · May 2001

Yes, I guess that's possible. I need to take a look underneath my Trooper soon to remind myself what things looks like.

emiura · May 2001

Just completed 30K maintenance on my '99 Perf. Pkg Trooper. Only problem that the technician found was leak from transmission drain plug. According to him, this is a design problem with the washer, and he has seen this with other Troopers. He had put a Honda washer for a fix and recommended me to take it to Isuzu dealer for powertrain warranty repair. Isuzu would proabably put the original washer (poor design, according to him), but complaint/repair would be on the record if something major would happen to the powertrain later on. He works on Isuzu corporate team car, and he is very knowledgeable about Isuzu SUV's, especially performance mods.

Asked about Axiom vs. Trooper engine. He said besides the software, intake and exhaust area were modifed (increased?) to boost HP, but Isuzu is not disclosing details. I'm not very much into technical stuff, so that's all I understood.

If anyone is interested in his shop located in Fountain Valley, CA, his site address is:

www.isuzusuv.com

...Eiji...

beer47 · May 2001

Insurance for the trooper is reasonable considering it does really poor in the 5 mph crash tests. Our 4 crash total (front, back, corner, etc.) was over 11k in repairs. Each crash produced approx. $2800 in body damage. These trucks run great, last a long time, and are fun to drive; but God help us should we get tapped by almost anything. I hope none of us has to find out any time soon. Cheers.

emiura · May 2001

Vehicles have numbers assigned (called "symbols")for insurance premium rating. In addition to this number, "sports" or "high performance" rating may be added. This rating is model specific, i.e. LX can be more expensive than DX, 4WD is more than 2WD, 6 cylinder is more than 4 cylinder, etc. I'm guessing that Trooper's favorable insurance premium is due to the fact that Trooper was rated as one model for a while. (Even with Perf or LUX package, there was no class distinction so they were rated the same as base model.) But this means that this is all going to change! Another reason maybe is these vehicle rating agencies do not update the "symbol" unless there is a major model change. Trooper had not had one for a long time, therefore, it may have dragged old favorable "symbol" for a long time. If you are car shopping, I would suggest to call your agent for a quote if you are debating which vehicle to buy and it is down to insurance premium issues. Hope this helps.

serrano · May 2001

I know that others on this forum have commented on the so-called "stainless steel exhaust" on the '99 Troopers that is not very stainless at all. I have such a system. Have others on this board had any luck in having the system replaced with a truly stainless system? Or am I wasting my breath in complaining to the dealer?

Tom

gpm5 · May 2001

Your wasting your breadth. There are multiple grades of stainless steel. Most of them show some rust after awhile. Good stainless steel has no magnetic properties.

paisan · May 2001

I complained, to no avail. I believe the muffler itself is true stainless, but the tailpipe is not. Mine has slight rust on the tailpipe, but nothing damaging. I'm planning on hitting the tailpipe with black stove-grade (heat resistant) spray paint so that the rust doesn't show up.

-mike

paisan · May 2001

A big factor in insurance at least for the fire-theft portion is the # of stolen vehicles, and the market for used parts. Since they only sell 10-15K units of the Trooper a year, there are very few of these trucks on the road, and therefore are not a big target for spare parts like the Honda Accord, Toyota Camary, and a few years back the Oldsmobile Cutals supreme, Monte Carlo, and Buick Regal/Grand National. I'm sure the AWD and 4 wheel anti-lock + 4wheel disc brakes also help for collision. My insurance actually went down from my '97 Rodeo to my '00 Trooper.

-mike

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