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BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I have never heard that BMW engines are broken in at the factory, I'm not saying that that is not so, I just have never heard of it. BMW does recommend keeping the revs below 4500 for more like 1,250 miles (it is in the manual), and then gradually increasing you peak RPM range over the next 750 miles or so.

    As for actual break-in events; older engines required a “Non-Ashless Dispersant Oil” for break-in. That oil would not hold combustion byproducts (mainly carbon) in suspension, thus allowing said byproducts to collect around the rings and stabilize them. The term for this is called “Seating the Rings”. Given that Synthetic oil typically keeps internal engine parts very clean, one can see why Synthetic oil was not used during break in. While I do not know for sure, my guess is that BMW (and other manufacturers that use Synthetic as the factory fill) has engineered their piston assembly such that the rings are deemed to be seated as soon as the piston assembly is punched into the cylinder, thus eliminating the “ring seating” step.

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 325i87325i87 Member Posts: 15
    BMW has had long oil service intervals at least since some 1987 models. My 1987 325i had service indicator lights averaging about 16,000 km intervals. The recommended oil grade was 10W50 for moderate climates. This is what I always used because I had a block heater and I plugged it in every time I could when it was very cold. It is with its third owner (a co-worker) and approaching 280,000 km now. Some things on it are showing signs of wear (noisy differential, some wheel bearings changed), but not the engine. It sounds as smooth as ever.

    I believe that it is just possible that BMW engineers spent the effort to methodically study the subject and actually determined the safe oil service interval. My new 330xi is projecting the first service at about 24,000 km, about 50% more than the older model. The new car uses synthetic oil whereas the old one had a built-in oil cooler. I am assuming that the BMW engineers know what they are doing and will follow the service schedule without the slightest worry.
  • pnandapnanda Member Posts: 6
    Hi Shipo,

    Great, I will be careful for the first 1250 miles. As per the factory break-in, I am very sure it happens for the new engines. The BMW salesman told me about it first. Then two independent techs also confirmed it.

    hi 325i87,

    Your experience is very soothing for me. As I have the modernized verion of your same engine, I feel more confident that these new ones will hold on at least as long as yours. If you don't mind, would you mention your regular maintenance items to keep it running smooth ?

    PN, San Jose, CA
    2002 325 Conv.
  • 325i87325i87 Member Posts: 15
    For my 1987 BM, I basically had the scheduled service performed by the BMW service centre. I do not have the service book (current owner has it) but the service schedule was similar to my new 2002 car. It was basically (kilometers values are approximate, actual intervals as per service lights)
    16k: oil service
    32k: inspection I
    48k: oil service
    64k: inspection II
    etc
    The only exceptional precaution I took for a period of time was to ask them to change the air filter every inspection (32k) because I was driving a lot on dusty gravel roads. I also used 60/40 antifreeze/water mix because I was travelling to places with occasional weather below -40.

    I have done my share of repairing cars and equipment in my days, but on that car I did very little service/repair myself. Here are two items I remember below.

    On that particular model, the service interval/tach/odometer circuit had back-up NiCd batteries that went bad after 6-7 years causing the service lights and eventually other instrument cluster functions to act up. I took the cluster apart, pulled out the circuit card and replaced (soldered in) the batteries myself instead of forking out for a complete new circuit card.

    One time, the engine suddenly started to sound really rough. I discovered it was due to one spark plug shorting when hot. I bought and installed a new set of spark plugs and that was the end of it.
  • mmenke1mmenke1 Member Posts: 3
    My 1999 323i is at about 44,000 miles and I've only had the oil & filter changed twice. I still have about 5000 miles left before my next change. I was concerned about the long interval, but after talking with a few technicians at BMW dealers, they are aware that BMW has done quite a bit of research on the oil intervals.

    It also made me a little nervous about the computer making calculations about when I should have my oil changed, but the computer is using the correct transient engine events to determine the interval (cold starts, acceleration and driving conditions).

    I can safely say that my engine runs exactly the same (if not better) than it did when new. I'm not too worried about the oil interval anymore.

    Also...oil changes at every 3k miles are completely unnecessary, given the amount of synthetics put into oils today (regardless of driving style). Back in the 60's or 70's, maybe, but not now. 5k miles is debatable. BMW uses a very high amount of synthetic in their oil, and frankly I believe the typical 15k mile interval.

    I don't really drive mine all that hard, but I do notice on my occasional 2/3/4 th gear redline shift and cross 120 mph, the interval will drop a bit faster.

    P.S. Don't buy Volkwagen!!!
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    How do you arrive at 3k or 5k oil changes? You mention 3k is better than 15k. 1k should be better than 3k by that logic.

    Have you run an engine for 6-7 years with 3k mile oil changes? If you have and the engine didn't fail, you probably could have used a larger interval and saved some money. I've used 5k mile intervals with no problems myself.

    My experience with filters (I work for an engine filter manufacturer) is that filters don't stop filtering when they reach capacity, the restriction goes up. A filter actually lets through more sludge when it's new vs. after some of the larger flow paths have filled up. In other words, changing a filter too frequently is more detrimental than changing it at recommended intervals.

    Bottom line, I'm confident that BMW has properly sized the oil filter and done accelerated testing to verify their change intervals. I'm certain they don't want engines failing left and right in 5 years.

    -Murray
  • nobodyhome888nobodyhome888 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2002 330ci. Any way to do this without drilling holes in the front bumper?
  • shap1shap1 Member Posts: 77
    My 325i has just over 4000 miles on it. I experienced this twice in the last couple of days, now it has me worried. Driving along on the highway when suddenly, without warning, it's like there's no gas getting to the engine. I had the gas pedal to the floor and the rpm's were about 1,000 and the car's speed kept diminishing. Even if I pumped the gas pedal -- nothing happened. Wonder if its the fuel pump??

    After a short while, the car would kind of jerk forward a little and it would be fine again. A bit later, same thing. No warning lights or the dreaded "Check Engine Light" came on.

    Wonder if I should be driving the car, even to the dealership (about 2 miles away)?
    First service appointment I could get was Monday, but they have no clue what this could be. Anyone have this experience or have a clue??
  • michaelg5michaelg5 Member Posts: 13
    Hi everyone--wondering if anyone has any experience or insight about how an M3 fitted with four undersized snow tires would perform in the snow. Is it unrealistic to consider using this car in the winter in the Chicago area? Thanks in advance. MG
  • wgpinneywgpinney Member Posts: 3
    please help with advice!

    My car is a 1997 328i, which I bought as a CPO from a local dealer. My check engine light came on last week. I took the car to an independent BMW specialty shop (the dealer is running his usual 28 day wait for an appointment). He ran the codes, and said it indicated that the air pump was bad, as well as a potential oxygen sensor as well. The fuel mixture was off too, he said. Since it is still under warranty, he suggested I return to the dealer.

    My dealer ran the codes and reported only that the secondary air pump was reporting bad. They reset the light, and said to drive it and see if the light came back on, and bring it in if it does.

    This same dealer replaced the secondary air pump this past July, BTW. My concern: my independent guy says that I risk doing expensive damage to the car if I drive it with a faulty air pump. He said something about damaging the catalytic convertor due to the fuel mixture, as well as other potential failures.
    So ...

    Can I drive this until the light comes back on, or should I insist now that the dealer replace it? Any advice is most appreciated.
  • pnandapnanda Member Posts: 6
    Sorry,
    This may be a little too late for a reply. But I have read users having exact same problem ( power loss ) int the bimmer.org's E46 forum. Please visit that site and they will have plenty to tell you about. Dealers must know by now.
    Not sure if its the thermostat/fan problem or the accelerator pedal/actuator issue.

    good luck
    2002 325 Conv.
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    Your dealer should of given you a kit for your license plate.
    -nobee
  • lgbaaronlgbaaron Member Posts: 2
    I just picked up my 01 Steele Blue 325iA with premium & sport packages, harmon/kardon, heated seats, xenon lights, and ski package. As soon as I pulled into my driveway I noticed the brakes squeaking. It has been doing to ever since and only squeaks when the brake pedal is depressed just enough to begin slowing the car, as I push harder the squeaking stops. Is this normal? The car was a Cert-preowned (as a demo) and had 15192 miles on it. It's very annoying and I don't think it should be doing it. Our 2001 740iL has never squeaked. Do I need to have the brakes serviced? Squeaking breaks is a pet-peave I have . . . I can't stand them! Other than that the care is a dream.

    Anyway, what should I do? It's fairly loud I can hear it inside the car with the stereo on and I see people turn their heads.
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    Cheap after-market pads? Try OEM pads.
    -nobee
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    PBR/Repco Deluxe pads are quiet, inexpensive, and excellent for street use.
  • jsg27jsg27 Member Posts: 2
    I posted this question in the Dealer Service and Experiences forum, no one responded, I thought it might have better response in this forum.

    I need advice on what steps I may take or what other options I have, my car (325i, 2001, 15000 miles) has been in the dealership service station three times since september 2001. The thermostat was replaced twice and then the air flow meter and air sensor were replaced the last time. I have the car scheduled tomorrow for the same problem "Service Engine Soon" inidicator is ON which makes it the fourth time in 5 months. I am getting frustrated, this is not only affecting my schedule but also my confidence in this car. Would there be a limit as to how many times a the dealership will attempt to fix the problem and if it cannot be fixed, the whole system causing the problem would be replaced or the car will be classified as a lemon? Please advise.
  • gvytgvyt Member Posts: 14
    I just experience my first two, 6-days apart. $525 for parts and labor. I'm discussing this with BMW now. I've been lucky, they've lasted 5 1/2 years.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...are different from state to state. You need to check with your state dept of consumer affairs, or whatever they are called in the state in which you reside. No other answer or generalization works in these cases.

    And if you haven't contacted BMWUSA by now, get moving on that. Demand that the dealer's service dept get you in contact with the regional service rep, or whatever BMW is calling them these days. Get into your warranty and owner's booklet and check on the procedure for going after service and grievance problems. There should be a regional number to call to get help.
  • mikahakmikahak Member Posts: 5
    1) Cargo cover squeaked badly from day one, when I lifted it out I realized how incredibly heavy it was and decided never to use it again to save weight on this already overweight car(it's in the basement now).

    2) Sticky accelerator pedal from day one and it gets worse when the interior of the car warms up. Dealer had never heard of this occurring before!

    3) Right rear of car sat 1/2" lower than left. Dealer replaced one spring, had no effect, after work was done rear suspension started making noises over bumps that previously didn't cause any noises.

    4) During hard acceleration the clutch (manual tran) squeals loudly with each gear engagement. Dealer replaced A/C belt but had no effect. This has occurred from about 2000mi (break in period).

    5)Window squeaks and rattles have been gradually increasing.

    6)During cold weather the stereo display becomes distorted with a strange pattern that resembles a circuit board, this goes away as the interior warms up.

    7)Windshield is optically distorted on the lower passenger side.

    Interesting that I haven't experienced many of the other problems discussed on this forum.

    I have not agressively persued most of these issues with my dealer because I have been recovering from heart surgery and I feel the clueless service department doesn't have the capability or desire to address these problems anyway.

    Despite all of this I still think the car is a blast to drive, and every time I pull into my garage and turn off the engine I think to myself, that was a hell of a lot of fun. I knew what I was getting into when I bought this car anyway, from reading all the BMW forums, great fun to drive but don't expect top notch reliability or service. Having owned all Japanese cars all my life I had a burning curiosity to see what it would be like to own a German car. It's about what I expected.
  • jsg27jsg27 Member Posts: 2
    My wife requested the dealership to rotate the tires on my 2001 325i during it's 15K service, the service advisor told my wife that BMW does not recommend tire rotation. I never heard of this before. Does anyone have the same experience?
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Yes, BMW advises against tire rotation. That said, I've rotated them on every BMW I've owned with no ill effects. FWIW, the OEM Michelins on my wife's 528iA sled have over 60000 miles on them, and I expect to get at least 7500 more before I replace them.
  • eugeug Member Posts: 46
    I've been receiving reports from Bill Stuart of BMWNA about the redesigned gas petal. I've received his latest update about 2 day ago. He said the new petal is not ready yet and he will call again in 3 weeks or so. If you've seen my last message here, it was suppose to be done this month. Apparently, BMW was not satisfied with the redesign, and will be making more mods. to fix the problem.
  • dinangerdinanger Member Posts: 8
    I own a 2001 330ci with 21k miles. I, too, am experiencing squeaky brakes. It's loud enough to cause friends to comment. I talked to my service advisor, who said to drive at highway speed and brake hard to remove any glaze buildup. I did that with no luck. (It sure was fun, though!) Then the advisor had me bring in the car. The technicians could hear no squeaking when they had the car for the day. (Of course!) Is it normal for the brakes to squeak like that? I'm going to bring it up again with the advisor, but I thought I seek some feedback here as well. Thanks for your help.
  • lgbaaronlgbaaron Member Posts: 2
    I did it as well, braking on the freeway to remove build up, and it worked temporarily (about two minutes) and then the squeeking returned. I'm not going to do it anymore, I really don't feel like destroying the brakes before I have the car serviced on the 26th.
  • wildfire007wildfire007 Member Posts: 4
    Hi,
    How do I reset the "brake ligning" light? Do I have to take it to the dealer or is there an easier way?
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Two ways: either replace the sensor or simply cut it off and connect the two wire with a crip on butt connector. Of course, the second option eliminates the warning feature.
  • mainsail2mainsail2 Member Posts: 77
    It sounds like an electric fuel pump. We only have 3300 miles on the car and I'm wondering if anyone else has had the problem. I'm also wondering if the fuel pump is about to quit and if BMW has been cooperative in fixing it under warranty (assuming that's what is wrong).
  • 2000bmw328i2000bmw328i Member Posts: 2
    I bought a 2000 BMW 328I with only 19,500 miles on it a couple of weeks ago. Initially the car drove perfectly, but this weekend I noticed that it was difficult to shift into gear (it’s a manual). It didn’t grind, but it took a lot of effort to get into gear. I took it to BMW of Murray here in Salt Lake City, Utah and they said that the transmission is blown. I was completely shocked. They said that when they drained the transmission oil there were metal shavings and a burnt smell to the oil. The service advisor said the reason for it was the previous owner had abused the car. He also said that the 328I is a luxury car and isn’t meant to be driven hard like the M3. I know the guy that owned the car before me babied the thing. He didn’t abuse it and never red lined the car. My feeling is that there must be some sort of a defect in the transmission. Has anyone had this problem? I would so appreciate some advice. I called up four transmission shops in town and they all said that it is highly unlikely that the guy that owned it before me could blow the transmission especially with the mileage on it. The tires and the brakes are in great condition as well, so why would the transmission show signs of abuse and not other parts on the car? The car looks like new. Help!
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Well, if the service advisor really did say that that a 328i is not designed to be driven hard, he is either an idiot, a liar, or possibly both. As for the tranny failure, it's tough to make a long distance diagnosis. That said, a ham-fisted driver could have wrecked it. It could have been a manufacturing defect- or the PO could have put the wrong lubricant in it.
  • silvernubirasilvernubira Member Posts: 59
    Even though my 2000 E46 does not have fuel pump noise, I noticed BMW owners complaining about it on bimmer.org.

    My wife's Nubira has a very loud fuel pump noise (it has about 5000 miles on the odometer). I hear it when I start the car, then it cuts off.

    Some pumps must be louder than the others. I would not worry about it if you are certain that the noise is from the fuel pump.
  • fowvayfowvay Member Posts: 29
    BMW of North America has a service bulletin specifically addressing the problem with the rear axle clunk noise. Take your vehicle to a BMW service center and describe the noise that it is making. Also address the issue of the axle whine which is also a issue relating specifically to poor sound insulation. The clunk noise will be repaired by installing a rubber dampener in the drive line (axle) near the transmission and the whine noise is solved by adding a isolation pad at the aft axle bearing. The issues are common with early production E46 machines.
  • rhennighrhennigh Member Posts: 2
    My 328i has 40K miles, and has been making a 'clunking' noise over soft bumps and pavement joints. It sounds as if something is loose, but I can't find it. Also, it seems to be temperature related, and disappears below ~ 35 - 40 degrees Farenheit.

    My dealer and a specialized BMW garage have both looked at it and said there's nothing wrong back there. Does anyone have some info about this.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    It sounds like it could be rear shock mounts, though 40K is a bit early for them to fail. If they're bad, replace them with E46 M3 pieces.
  • mikahakmikahak Member Posts: 5
    My 2001 325iT rear suspension clunks over mild bumps ever since my dealer tried to fix a sagging right rear corner, mileage is 12,000. It bothers me but not enough to take it in again and listen to the idiot BMW service manager tell me it's "normal" or "can't be reproduced" or "BMW is working on a remedy" or some other hogwash like every other time I bring the car in for something that seemed a little odd for the "ultimate driving machine". I expect problems to occur but the way BMW tries to weasel out of dealing with them is unbelievable.
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    what service bulletin board are you talking about?
    Thanks,
    -nobee
  • fowvayfowvay Member Posts: 29
    the service bulletins that were mentioned above are available through all servicing BMW retailers in North America. The bulletins are not accessible to the general public though and are proprietary data. It is their responsibility to maintain a bulletin library and they are expected to utilize this information when diagnosing the customers vehicles.

    SB 33-02-00 is axle whine of the E46 chassis.
    SB 24-09-98 is for the transmission clunk associated with the GM5 automatic transmission.
  • jodar96jodar96 Member Posts: 400
    I bought a 92 325i with 86K miles last November. The owner manual says to use 10W40 (winter) and 20W50 (summer).

    Does anyone know why BMW recommends high viscosity oil? What is so special ( or outdated) about 92 2.5L engine?

    Fowvay, what is your opinion?
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    BMW expects their engines to be driven hard at high rpm for extended periods. I run 15W-50 Mobil 1 in my 1995 ti and 1998 5er year round with no problems.
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    Thanks!
    -nobee
  • fowvayfowvay Member Posts: 29
    For the E-36 chassis coupled with the M50 engine I would recommend that you use a fully synthetic engine oil meeting the ACEA A-3 requirement for gasoline engines in the viscosities of either 5w-40 or 10w-40 for year-round use. In North America the BMW retailers offer a 5w-30 lubricant that also meets the ACEA A-3 rating. For high RPM extended use it is imperative that you use a lubricant with a highly rated High Temperature/High Shear rating. Lubricant containers do not publish this information for the consumer so you are left with the choice of using a lubricant that meets a regulated standard such as API or ACEA. There is absolutely nothing "antiquated" about the M50 engine and the use of heavier viscosity fluids is recommended to prolong the life of the engine under severe use. As fluid/chemical technology progresses the higher ratings of the thick fluids will make its way into the lighter lubricant grades. At the present there are very few 5w-30 lubricants that meet the ACEA A-3 rating. The 5w-30 available in North America at the BMW retailers DOES meet this standard and will give you slightly improved fuel economy with similar protection to the thicker recommended lubricants.
  • rhennighrhennigh Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your replys 'div2', and 'mikahak'. I suspect that the shock mounts might be the source, but I have replaced the shocks myself about 2,000 miles ago thinking one or both of them were the problem and the mounts seemed ok. However, I may go and replace them as you suggested 'div2' and see what happens.

    For what it matters, I love this car and it's performance in all manners, and will likely buy another BMW in the future unless they really loose it in Munich like they have in Detroit.
  • nobeenobee Member Posts: 194
    A few days ago I too thought I had a rear end clunking sound. Went to the nearest dealer and drove my car with him. Every time I made an aggressive left hand turn I would hear this "a-bouncing-ball-in-a-tube" type of sound. They took my car in for a few hours and found it rather it wasn't the suspension but rather the rubber seats that the transmission sits on. The tranny was seated improperly, hence the noise. Could this be your culprit?
    -nobee
  • player73player73 Member Posts: 1
    I own a 2001 325I. Ever since the car was delivered, I had numerous electrical/electronics problems. I had to take the car to dealership at least 6 times (I lost the count on it, but 3 times within the last 3 months), because of failures in electrical/electronics systems. It is either the signal, or the brake light, or the Xenon beam, or the dashboard signals (airbag, etc.), and so on. I have talked to the service manager, and the response I have got is: "3 series have issues with brake lights, and BMW's overall have issues related to signals". Of course my response was: "Do you guys advertise that? Ultimate Driving Machine, as long as you do not care about electronics!'". Is there anyone, who has been facing similar problems? Any info. greatly appreciated.

    Player73
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmmm, I have been active on the Edmunds E46 related boards on and off since mid 1998 when I was shopping for my current 1999 328i. I can say quite honestly that the total extent of problems related to lighting gremlins on said E46 cars has been no greater than the problems I myself have experienced. And what were those problems? Glad you asked. I had to replace two individual taillights. I could have had them done under warranty, however, it was just easier to drop by the local Auto Parts store and pay something like $1.00 for each of the bulbs.

    Any claims beyond that are just smoke, IMHO. Over the last (almost) four years, I have communicated with and read the posts of literally hundreds of E46 owners, and you are the first I have heard to have such problems. Were it that I was in your shoes, I would start exploring the "Lemon Laws" in your state, and let your dealership know that you are doing so. The fact is, EVERY manufacturer from Trabant to Lexus builds a "Lemon" or two from time to time (some more than others).

    Let us know how this turns out.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rascal8rascal8 Member Posts: 54
    I have a 2001 325ci. Not tracked or too aggressively driven. I use Amsoil 5W30 in the warm months and 0W30 in the winter. I live in N.Carolina, which is fairly hot in the summer. I know BMW recommends Castrol 5W40 but I take this as a marketing agreement and little to do with the oil itself. My departed '95 318ti used 15W40 if I remember correctly. The viscosity recommendations sure have changed. Any opinions regarding using the 5w or 0W oils?
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Well, BMWNAs current synthetic is a 5W-30 which is used for all engines excluding a couple of //M motors which require a 10W-60 synthetic. I live in Kentucky and run Mobil 1 15W-50 year round in my 1997 528i and 1995 318ti- primarily because both owners manuals say it is acceptable for use down to 0F. If I had a newer model, I'd go with BMW Synthetic year round.
  • oasis2oasis2 Member Posts: 1
    Hello all, I'm thinking of buying a 1993 BMW 325i with 190K Miles (manual trans) as a backup
    car. Due to the high miles, I'm obviously concerned about the state of the engine and other major systems (electrical, suspension,etc.). The seller has the records to show that the car has been getting regular oil changes and tune ups and I'm hoping to have a mechanic look at this car before I buy it but.....is there anything symptomatic of these engines that I need to be wary of? How many miles can you get out of the 325i and/or it's engine? Timing belt or timing chain? If belt, how often does it need to be changed? Every 60K? Thanks in advance for the advice.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    The 2.5 inline six in the 3er uses a timing chain which should last the life of the engine. 1992-1993 3ers had more than a few teething problems- rattles, squeaks, vinyl door panel "bubbling"-and as a result these cars are not highly prized. I know of several BMW dealers who are reluctant to accept them as trades. That said, the basic running gear tends to be quite reliable. On this car I would want to see proof that the coolant and brake fluid were changed at least every two years. The trans and diff oil should have been changed at least every 75000 miles. Your mechanic inspection should include a compression test and ideally a leakdown test. A lot of morons(particularly those coming out of domestic cars) think that changing the oil and plugs at regular intervals is enough- well, maybe for a POS like a Cavalier, but not for a BMW. I once looked at a used M3 that was supposed to have received meticulous care. The doofus bragged about changing the oil every 3000 miles. When I asked him the last time the brake fluid was changed he said "Huh?" I turned around and drove away...
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Member Posts: 535
    DIV2 I would like you to explain your Statement " A lot of morons (particularly coming out of domestic cars ) " This is a meanspirited comment and is probably against your agreement with edmunds . You must apologize immediately or be banned !!
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I DID NOT CALL anyone in TH a moron.
    I DID NOT SAY that everyone who drives a domestic car is a moron.
    What I DID SAY was that anyone who thinks that merely changing the motor oil and plugs at regular intervals constitutes good automotive maintenance is a moron- and I stand by that characterization.
    Lighten up, Francis...
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