BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

kdshapiro · January 2003

Good luck in getting the car fixed to your satisfaction. No car should pull on a straight and level road. It is said the sometimes the car "tramlines". The low profile tires sometimes track to imperfections in the road. I've noticed it on my car. But I never feel I have to fight with the steering to keep it straight.

Every car I've had has pulled at sometime or another. Usually an alignment and tire rotate/balance fixes the problem.

dsjeepti · January 2003

I am new to Edmunds and find this forum very informative. I have a few questions that I would appreciate any input on. I have a 97 ti automatic w 115,000 miles on it.
My dealer recently installed new front struts and did a wheel alignment. The car now pulls to the right and still doesn't handle as well as it did some 20,000 miles ago. Could this be due to the rear end. My dealer is in Brooklyn, NY and charges for even checking my air!
My transmission also shifts roughly or not at all, especially if not fully warm (10 minutes min.). An independent repair shop told me the sticker under the transmission idicates it is sealed and should not be opened. My dealer wants Big $ to check and in the past has said It's normal. No easy way to check fluid level. Any advise would be appreciated.
ds

div2 · January 2003

At 115000 miles it is possible that your ti may need upper strut bearings, tie rods, subframe bushings, control arms- or all of the above. I'd suggest you find a good independent BMW tech to check out the front and rear suspensions. Your local BMW CCA chapter should be able to give you some helpful guidance in this respect. Ditto for the AT. Whoever checked out your tranny is a clueless idiot. A COMPETENT, INTELLIGENT tech can perform a fluid change-Dexron III) on the GM A4S 310R unit in your car. That said, once you've gone 115K without a fluid change you should probably just leave it alone and start saving for a rebuilt unit; a fluid change at this point will likely loosen up accumulated sludge and gunk thereby killing the transmission outright.

rhmass · January 2003

Please give us some advice on my son's 1998 318ti with 28,500 miles. He had some problem starting the car a week's ago when we had near sub zero temperature. Somehow after numerous try he got it going. However, the check engine light came on but went out after two days. According to him, he didn't notice any difference in the car's operations.
The question he had is if he should bring the car back to the dealer for check up. Another question is whether the car needs a Inspection 2 service at 30,000. I learned BMW has changed the frequency from 30,000 to 40,000. Your suggestion is much appreciated. As he is an intern in the hospital and hardly gets a day off for auto service, I'll arrange to switch cars with him to bring the car in when service is needed. Thanks in advance for your advice.

div2 · January 2003

The Check Engine Light(CEL) indicates that the On-Board Diagnostic system has detected a fault in the emissions system. The CEL will extinguish if the fault is not detected again after a certain number of start/run cycles. However, the fault code will still be retained in the system memory. If the car is running fine-no stumbling/stalling or decrease in MPG-I'd simply wait for the next service. As for the Insp.II, a 1998 318ti will signal an Oil Service or Inspection about every 9000 miles. The sequence is Oil Service-Insp.I-Oil Service-Insp.II. Therefore, an Insp II should not be required until the car reaches @36000 miles. Let me know if I can help further.

rhmass · January 2003

I appreciate your expertise and help to those less knowledgeable BMW owners, so that they can make their ownership much more enjoyable.
THANK YOU.

div2 · January 2003

No problem! I'm always glad to help; BMWs have been one of my hobbies for over 20 years.

dsjeepti · January 2003

I believe the bushings were replaced about 25,000 miles ago. As for the transmission, I got the car in 1999 w 54,000 miles on it and when I was "regularly" going to the BMW dealer, they claimed to be topping it off when I complained. It was about a year ago that I really noticed a difference and that's when I started asking around. The dealer never recommended a fluid change (go figure). I will definetly look into the BMW CCA chapter for a good machanic. If anyone knows of one in the NY metro area, I am all ears!
BTW, reluctantly I am going back to my local dealer (4 week wait)this Mon. to discuss the "pulling" and now have some additional info. to bring up. Thanks again for the advice.

div2 · January 2003

One other thing I forgot to mention is that tires can sometimes cause pulling. Swapping them from side to side might eliminate the problem. As of 9/95 vehicle production BMW considers all of their automatics to have a "lifetime fill", so I'm not too surprised that your dealer didn't suggest a fluid change. That said, most techs I know suggest a change at @60K, though a lot of E39 528i owners have the same GM transmissions and have gone for over 120K with no maintenance whatsoever.

smahanna · January 2003

I am so disappointed with this vehicle.. it handles very well and is a dream to drive, But the frequent visits to the dealer for various repairs are making me sorry I ever purchased it. I purchased the car in Oct of 1999.It has the sport pkg and the premium sound system and onboard computer etc.. Today it has barely 35,000 miles on it. I am the only one who drives it and I take very good care of it.. to date, the brakes AND rotors have had to be completely replaced 2x, there have been 3 different problems w/ the convertible top, 2 different problems with the air-bag system, the dam? under the car has been replaced 3 times, the water pump had to be replaced.
In the case of the brakes the system warning light light only came on the 2nd time. Why all these problems? The Dealer just keeps acting as tho' this is totally normal.. this car has spent more time in the shop than virtually any car I have ever owned..includng the horrible Town & Country mini van I last owned.
So can you shed some light on this? What are some of the inherent problems of BMW 3 series convertibles? thank you.

div2 · January 2003

Sounds like dealer problems and driving style:

Brakes- No known E36 quirks. You should get at least 30K out of the pads and 60K from the rotors. Easy. Dont ride the brakes; my 1995 3er sees some track use and at 78K it's still on the original rotors and only the second set of front pads.

Soft Top-sounds like the dealer doesn't keep current with the TSBs.

SRS- The E36 has had a few problems with occupant and belt latch sensors. Nothing serious, and easy to rectify.

Air Dam- If your air dam is messed up, it's because YOU hit something- a curb, speed bump, or other foreign object. OTOH, if the splash shield under the engine keeps coming loose, then the shop needs to fix it right the FIRST time.

Water Pump- 35K is somewhat early; most S50s don't need a water pump until they have over 60K on the clock.

IMHO, you should stay off the brakes and find a competent dealer or independent BMW shop. What shop(s)do the local BMW CCA members use?

topdawgs · January 2003

is there anything on the market to prevent or remove brake dust from my wheels on a 03 330cibmw? thanks for your help.

div2 · January 2003

BMW brakes are notorious for their heavy dusting. Waxing the wheels will make cleaning them a bit easier. I'd also suggest switching to PBR/Repco MetalMaster pads if they are available for your model. They will provide excellent street performance with little dust, though they aren't very suitable for track use. STAY AWAY from Kleen Wheels and such; they obstruct the cooling air flow that BMW brakes require.

dsjeepti · January 2003

Do you think I should push for a trans. fluid change, now w 116,000 miles. If it is a sealed system requiring no maintenance, is there ever a time to have it done or just wait until it eventually dies?
I will have the dealer rotate the tires if it wasn't done with the strut replacement.
Thanks, DS

div2 · January 2003

I the general consensus is to let sleeping dogs lie if the transmission has over 80K miles. FWIW, the transmission isn't sealed; it simply lacks a dipstick. The dealer can check the level using the DIS or MODIC to ensure that the ATF is at the proper temperature: http://home.socal.rr.com/tyrone/SD92-114.pdf

dsjeepti · January 2003

Thanks again, you are a wealth of info.

div2 · January 2003

Always glad to help.

smahanna · January 2003

Thanks div2 for all the info.. I really appreciate it.
I live in S. Calif, and our traffic here is legendary.. I no longer take my 328i to the local dealer( Irvine BMW) because of integrity issues.. thanks for reinforcing my feeling I was not being dealt w/ appropriately.
I do not "ride" my brakes, preferring to shift to compensate for traffic issues.. also the shield/dam shows no scaring that would indicate I had hit something.. I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions as I have a great deal of fondness for this car.. I have never had a "relationship" w/ a car before this one.

jameswbcox · February 2003

I have had the same experience as you. Mine is a 2000 323i wagon,and I do not agree with div2 regarding driving style or habits.
I drive my bimmer very conservatively and am super easy on the brakes as I hate the brake dust it creates. I have had three!!!!new rotors and sets of pads in 56000 miles. This is not acceptable.I have had numerous other problems, AC control unit, AM radio reception,numerous sensors, a stuck window,a turn signal indicator that dangled and didnt work 3 times.
I could go on but I too am very dissapointed with my first BMW.
I was in the auto business for 35 years have owned 40 to 50 cars and I have had 7 sports cars Jags, Porsches, Triumph, Austin Healy. So by way of background , I am far from being a newcomer to all this, Ten trips to the dealer in two years, not counting service--NOT GOOD.
Strangely enough I love the handling and feel of the car, but the problems are pushing me to consider other options.

fjm1 · February 2003

They don't call em BMTroubleU for nothing
http://home.earthlink.net/~millerfj

billymay · February 2003

Anyone had a problem with the steptronic disengaging with a thunk when coming to a complete stop? Doesn't happen in S or D, but when approaching a stop in 4th it doesn't slip into neutral smoothly.

2002 325Ci steel grey/step/PP/SP/Xenons

kdshapiro · February 2003

When approaching a stop my step very smoothly downshifts itself into 2nd.

When I try to downshift into first going 10-15, it does complain a little bit. So I don't downshift into first unless I'm going under 5 mph. I usually only shift into first at a complete stop.

billymay · February 2003

Would've helped if BMW had explained some of these tricks in the owners manual - I assumed it would work like a stick, except that I wouldn't have to worry about disengaging the clutch at a full stop.

Not that anyone does full stops in California anyway.

lvgpr · February 2003

Thinking about purchasing a 325 sedan, premium package. However, read that because of poor reliability predictability, consumer reports no longer recommends the 3 series. The report did not go into any specifics. I'm having second thoughts about it!

bmw323is · February 2003

You are right in that Consumer Reports no longer recommends BMW because of quality issues. I've had my 3 series for 3 years now and I've had it back to the dealer 5 times (not including regular maintenance and squeaks/rattles). My problems have been a power steering pump leak, thermostat recall, window regulator broke, replace clutch bearing, interior fan limit switch went crazy, and now a mild thumping sound from the engine bay (need to take back next week, hope it's not serious). Too many problems, IMO, for a high quality $35,000 car. And I take meticulous care of my vehicles. Obviously, these are only my specific problems and one should never listen to anecdotal problems. However, Consumer Reports represents thousands of owners - to that one should listen.

All this said, I still LOVE the car. But BMW better address the quality issues. I normally keep my vehicles for 7 or 8 years. I'm not sure what to do with this one after the next year, when my warranty expires. It will be a difficult decision. I have no patience for reliability issues in cars.

Overall, the BMW is truly a magnificent vehicle. It's handling is tremendous. But it's not going to be as reliable as a Toyota or Honda.

brislance1 · February 2003

I have a 00 323I that I purchased new. I have had no problems except the leather on the driver's seat bolster began to show wear. I brought it in and was told that the leather quality on the 3 series is poor. They did repair the problem. Other than that, I have had no mechanical problems with the car. It runs great and I love the car. I am aware of Consumer Reports no longer recommending the 3 series and I must confess, I do worry about going off warranty in a year.

efxx · February 2003

2 weeks ago my "service engine soon" indicator came on. What a huge disappointment that was. Luckily I have the 4 year/50,000 miles maintenance coverage. The problem was diagnosed as a faulty secondary valve which was stuck open. If you lived in the New England area 2 weeks ago then you probably know about the sustained serverly cold temperatures (single digits and below zero). I suspect the problem my car had was attributed to the cold temps. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I still like the car but that just wasn't cool.

2002 Orient Blue 325i/Prem Pkg/Cold W. Pkg/Step
20k miles.

kdshapiro · February 2003

It's been so long since my 330i has seen the dealer I forgot where they were.

Seriously it hasn't been in since before the summer and that was only to fix some loose weatherstripping.

This is a "car", all cars have some issues/problems including those from Honda, Toyota and Infiniti. Relax and enjoy it.

skobola · February 2003

Mine came on yesterday when I picked my car off the body shop, where it was repaired for 44 days after being rear-ended by a drunk, uninsured driver. The light came on after about 15 minutes drive. As this means that something is wrong with the emissions-related hardware, I guess that they screwed up something when they installed my new exhaust (complete exhaust was replaced, from manifold to muffler). I made an appointment tomorrow and reserved a loaner. I will let them play with it, I have already lost the feel for "my" Bimmer after not having it for 44 days... However, this sounds like an one-day service, even if they will have to replace the whole emissions hardware...

ajl1000 · February 2003

I just picked up my '00 323i exactly 4 days ago. Hearing all this about Consumer Reports not recommending the BMW on this forum is quite disconcerting, as I had based my decision to buy on the recommendation in the 2002 car issue. When did all this happen? Also, I have been hearing this faint buzzing noise when I use the air conditioning. Does anyone have any information as to what this might be?

Thanks,
ajl1000

bmw323is · February 2003

It was in the last few months that I saw something in CR about not recommending BMW because of reliability issues. I can't remember exactly when. I'm not sure what kind of buzzing noise you are hearing, but if it's coming from the vent area, it may just be the auto climate control. Do you here anything when you turn the A/C off? Or when you turn the fan down?

My car goes back to the dealer on Monday to find out what the mild thumping noise is coming from the engine bay.

mschukar · February 2003

We have two cars, a Volvo V70 and a BMW 325i.

Volvo is regarded as having poor quality by CR, much worse than BMW. We have had our share of problems with the car, but they have all been minor "inconveniences".

I believe a "poor" reliability car of today is far ahead of any car from 20 years ago. These ratings should be taken in with all of the other factors, but I don't believe reliability should be the primary factor.

Regarding the BMW, it's coming up on it's first birthday and I haven't even thought of taking it to the dealer for a thing. The car has been perfect!

-murray

hoff4 · February 2003

This car has 125,000 kms on it and has all the options. Any opinions on whether it's worth buying or are they too problematic. I realize that they are probably underpowered but I'm looking for specific problems.

jameswbcox · February 2003

refer to message # 590 and I will be glad to give you my take on BMW reliability. My first time is turning into a disaster.
Jim Cox

div2 · February 2003

I'm the original owner of a 1995 318ti and at 75000 miles the only non-scheduled maintenance has been a set of front pads and the water pump/AC belts(which I replaced as a precaution). I'd want to see the service history as well as an inspection by a competent BMW tech, but overall the E36/M44 combo is practically bulletproof.

mschukar · February 2003

I'm sorry to hear that. As I said, mine has been completely trouble free.

Hopefully, your problems will be resolved.

-murray

hpowders · February 2003

I have my 2002 325 for 6 months now. I was driving on the highway several nights ago when I heard a very loud explosive noise. I thought I hit a brick wall. The right side passenger airbag partially engaged and the car stopped. I proceeded to start the car with no problem and the car drove fine. There was absolutely no evidence of any damage. Looks like a faulty airbag. I hope that guy never packs a parachute for me. Has anybody else had a bad experience with faulty airbags?
Thanks.
Howard

rubicon52 · February 2003

average reliability. Lots of European cars hover around average reliability - some below, some above. CR actually has a high opinion of BMWs. CR says the 530 is the best car they have ever tested and that the 330 is the best upscale sedan. The problem is that whenever a car dips to below average in reliability, CR stops recommending it no matter how nice a car.

ajl1000 · February 2003

Hi!
I think I kind of figured out what the buzzing from the vent was. I was going over some bumps and heard it, so I think it might just be something loose. However, almost everytime I come to a complete stop, I hear this mild thump coming from the left rear. Just the other day, however, I got into the car and I guess with enough force. I heard something similar clunk in the left rear wheel area. Could it be something loose in the suspension or something? I am taking the car to the dealer on Friday, but I do find these sounds disconcerting, as I've only had the vehicle for two weeks exactly. I would like to find out more about CR and taking away its recommendation of BMW cars. Was this in one of the magazines? If so, what issue?

Thanks,
ajl1000

BTW- Do BMW's really consume a lot of engine oil? It was just something I read in one of the other forums, and I had never heard about it.

kdshapiro · February 2003

Mine hasn't used a quart in almost 6,000 miles.

brislance1 · February 2003

ajl 1000

You may want to buy the April issue of Consumer Reports which will be on the stands sometime in early March. It is their auto issue and will give you reliability reports on the 3 series frequency of repair for your car. I have also suscribed to their on-line service in which one can pull up the reliability data. I found that the 2000 323, which by the way I also own, has less than good stats on brakes, power equipment and body hardware. You will find that most German cars have more reliability issues than Japanese cars. I think you have to take all of this with a grain of salt. I have had no problems with my car which I purchased new except for a leather wear problem which was quickly remedied by the dealer.

Drive your car and enjoy it. I love mine and can live with some of problems that may crop up in the future. The fun of driving a car like this far exceeds any worry I might have about reliability!

jameswbcox · February 2003

Check message 590 posted by yours truly- sorrry to report and disapppointed by my initial BMW experience. I had many many cars , but the brake problems plus all else may keep me from another BMW- love the handling but not the service dept
Jimbo

gohuskies · February 2003

My 2002 330 CIC consumed one quart in 3000 miles. My service advisor says 6 cylinder BMWs do consume oil between changes, he added a quart at no expense to me.

div2 · February 2003

I wouldn't worry unless the oil consumption is greater than a quart every 2000 or so miles. EVERY BMW I've owned(with the exception of my 1997 528i)has consumed oil. At 78000 miles the 1.8 M42 in my ti goes through a quart of Mobil 1 15W-50 every 2500-4000 miles, depending on how much 4000+ RPM action it sees.

dohc97 · February 2003

I have a 2001 330ci with the same brake dust issue. Even though all my brake pads are still in very good condition, I replaced all of them with Hawk brake pads. These pads produce very little brake dust and are better than the OEM pads.

dsjeepti · February 2003

Here is a continuation from the 325 Lease discussion concerning my repair history of my '97 318ti. It was purchased used with 54,000 miles on it in Dec. '99. I don't have the first 7 months history as I moved recently and packed them away (I did get misc. electrical items repaired had it brought to BMW specs. where needed, approx. $2,000):
8/21/00 - 67,480 miles, inspection 2 $425 Parts/labor, replaced fuse #26 1.5 labor $128
1/4/01 - 74,600 , Brake fluid and coolant flushed, $196, Replaced front rotors $315, Replaced front ball joints $200 (to pass inspection)
5/15/01 - 80,434 , window guide and regulator $310
8/16/01 - 88,037 , oil pan replaced, transmission oil cooler replaced due to leaks in both areas, two trips to shop for parts, $1190.
11/9/01 - 94,230 , Inspect breaks (N/C this time with oil change for $55)
(Receipts not on file for next year)
10/01/02 - 110,642 , Replaced battery $120.
10/22/02 - 111,312 , Traction control light on, throttle actuator replaced $495
12/11/02 - 113,827 , Replaced front struts, alignment $950.
2/07/03 - 115,560 , Replaced cracked drivers seat frame, replaced front brake pads, check and top off trans. fluid, $500.
2/27/03 - 116,116 , Replaced thermostat w housing, $275 (plus misc. inspections on previous repairs as car still pulls and brakes feel lousy, NC).
Found out today rotors are scored and will need replacing soon (not noticed in last visits).
I included some "normal" main. to give a feel as to frequency to dealer (all done at BMW). Left out numerous oil changes and tune ups.
As you can see, not the most reliable car and lousy dealer service (at least I now get a 10% parts and labor discount, it seems I've earned it:)
Sorry for the long post, DS

umt · February 2003

I have a 2001 330I with sport and premium packages. I have 21,000 miles on the original conti tires. The car came with the M wheels which are wider in the rear than the front. I am in need of new rubber. Most of my driving is done in the city, maybe an occasional day trip for work. I live in Memphis and don't need all the softness of the original rubber. Any suggestions on new tires? I would like these tires to be in decent shape when the car comes off lease in another 14 months (about 15,000 miles).

div2 · February 2003

OK, let's analyze your litany of woe line by line:

<8/21/00 - 67,480 miles, inspection 2 $425 Parts/labor, replaced fuse #26 1.5 labor $128>
The Insp II cost is reasonable, but $128 to replace a fuse? You do know that the owners manual tells where the fuses are located, right?

<1/4/01 - 74,600 , Brake fluid and coolant flushed, $196, Replaced front rotors $315, Replaced front ball joints $200 (to pass inspection)>
The brake and coolant flush sounds about right. You can get OEM ATE or Balo rotors for less than $34 each. OEM Lemforder ball joints are $23 each.

<5/15/01 - 80,434 , window guide and regulator $310>
A regulator with new sliding clips, and guides runs @$100. And it's a simple DIY job:
http://www.understeer.com/window.shtml

<8/16/01 - 88,037 , oil pan replaced, transmission oil cooler replaced due to leaks in both areas, two trips to shop for parts, $1190.>
WHY would you need to replace the oil pan? I know one friend who cracked one when his M5 "caught some air" at a RR crossing during a rally, but still... Anyway, the AT cooler is only $203.

<11/9/01 - 94,230 , Inspect breaks(sic) (N/C this time with oil change for $55)>
OK, this was a problem because???

<(Receipts not on file for next year)
10/01/02 - 110,642 , Replaced battery $120.>
You could have bought an OEM Douglas or Interstate for under $100.

<10/22/02 - 111,312 , Traction control light on, throttle actuator replaced $495>
Sounds a little high.

<12/11/02 - 113,827 , Replaced front struts, alignment $950.>
Did that quote include vaseline? A pair of Bilstein HDs cost $360. And are you complaining that the struts wore out after "only" 114000 miles?

<2/07/03 - 115,560 , Replaced cracked drivers seat frame, replaced front brake pads, check and top off trans. fluid, $500.>
Well, the cracked seat frame was a a first for me. ATE or Pagid pads sell for under $50 all day long.

<2/27/03 - 116,116 , Replaced thermostat w housing, $275 (plus misc. inspections on previous repairs as car still pulls and brakes feel lousy, NC).>
The housing runs @$30, and it's a 1.5 hour job at most.

Some final observations:
Does your dealer offer a CCA discount? There's a 10%-30% savings right there.
Even my wife got over 65000 miles out of the front pads on her 1998 318tiA, and she brakes for EVERYTHING.
ANY car with over 100000 on the clock is going to need a bit of extra maintenance. How long do you expect struts, rotors, or t-stats to last?
Face it; any six year old car is expensive to fix if have to you run to the dealer for every little repair.
Frankly, you don't sound like the type of driver that needs to keep ANY car over @60000 miles.
So I'll tell you what, since your ti is such an obvious piece of junk, I'll take it off your hands for $2000. Deal?

rhmass · February 2003

I am sorry you have had such a bad experience with your 318ti both with the car and the dealer's service. My son has a 98 318ti which he bought in Aug of 2000. He has had absolutely no problem with the car except with the engine check light on at 29,000. The dealer diagnosed the problem as fouled spark plugs (and showed to him) and replaced them for $125. At almost 30,000 miles, it was about time for the replacement anyway, IMO. He hasn't had any more problem since and is very happy with the car. I agree with div2 who stated previously that this car is one of the most reliable BMW. May be the previous owner had abused the car since you bought it at 54,000 miles? It does sound like a lemon to me. If you don't want to replace the car, at least consider changing the place where you get it serviced. The charges sounded outrageous.

dsjeepti · February 2003

I'll be the first to admit that I don't put my hands under the hood/body unless to check fluids. I am not a CCA member (yet) and tried to view site unsuccessfully. My point in previous posts were to point out that purchasing used may not be the best thing. I made the mistake of financing for 5 yrs and still have 11 months to go. I can't get back what I owe, especially after the last 6 months of repairs. I have also pointed out my frustration with the dealer and am forced to go there as they are the only dealer in Brooklyn. The one or two independant shops I tried (with the advice of other BMW owners in the neighborhood) misdiagnosed or caused additional problems. I think Life Quality BMW has gotten worse (even the service writers admit this), but it's the only show in town. I had depended on that car before getting the Jeep for my job. I trusted the dealer and got burned. I plan on bringing my history back to them along with your comments and see what they have to say.
As for expectations on longevity of parts, I was just listing in response to your post on reliability. I agree the struts lasted a long time (3x longer than my previous front driver). I just never paid so much for replacements. Considering the mileage I accumulated in the first 2.5 yrs. of ownership, I was the first to support the durability of the car. Reflecting back, w/o all the receipts handy, I see that I got hosed and reliability is not that clear. I still love driving this car and now seem to let it sit for fear of the next $500 repair. BTW, I picked the car up yesterday night, drove 2 miles this morning and the traction control light stuck on. It looks like the throttle actuator is broken again (I still have the used part from the last repair in my garage, just 4 months ago, should at least be under warentee). Back to BMW I go, with some attitude and $1.50 for the bus ride home.....
One last note, the oil pan was replaced due to the plug threads being stripped (both indep. and BMW did oil changes and both diagnosed the repair before I had BMW do the work).

BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

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