BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

div2 · February 2001

Yeah, what do WE know???

lokki · February 2001

You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows....

Surely that means something.

If you find out what, let me know please.

smoothrunning · February 2001

the notorious thermostat failures,

steering wheel shimmies,

check engines lights coming on,

airbag warning lights coming on,

transmissions failing(the e36 and e46 3 series have a general motors automatic transmission),

the e39 528i's have the gm transmission too

numerous rattles and squeaks,

premature brake pad wear(this has been reported numerous times before by others)

ticking engine noise at idle(not related to oil starvation),

engine knocking at low speeds,

the notorious clunk(while moving forward slowly in 1st gear try turning and half thru the turn depress the clutch and one might hear the noise.. this is at parking lot speeds; a british magazine commented on this and found it to be unacceptable); seems this was a problem since the 1992-1999 e36 3 series as well

cars stalling out in the middle of the road!

these are just some of the problems that I have heard of.

anyone else had other issues?

smoothrunning · February 2001

talk about third world countries... finland

that's kinda like porsche manufacturing their boxsters in finland

i remember early boxsters had their engines catching fire and seizing..

the quality of the honda accords dropped too once they were made in ohio

bmw should lower their price and/or increase the standard options...

$35,000 for a 184 horsepower car is too much...

there was an actual owner the uuc digest(a BMW forum) a while back and he wanted to sell his e46 330Ci after one year... he stated the msrp was $44.5 plus tax

guess what he was offered? $26,000!!

so he stands to lose almost $25,000 in one year!!

now the car had high miles for a 2000 model (36K miles) but still that is really dismal

i heard of another guy who wanted to sell his 1997 540i that cost well over $50,000 brand new!

he was offered $20,000!!!

maybe all the electrical gremlins affecting the cars take their toll after all in a bigger way

OUCH!

div2 · February 2001

I usually don't respond to trolls; particularly ones who manifest their ignorance in such an obvious manner. Nonetheless, I must correct your most hilariously inaccurate statement: E46s sold in the US are built in Germany. BMW does have a plant in South Africa- which builds BMWs for only for domestic consumption. When you eventually get to sit in a BMW(or perhaps even DRIVE one)let us know.

ccotenj · February 2001

geez. call the guys in the white coats, we got a live one here...

-Chris

lokki · February 2001

Churchill said,

"Democracy is the worst form of government...except for all the others"

smoothrunning · February 2001

and that is reality

that is the big tamale whether you like it or not

personally I'll pass

mitsugst · March 2001

I personally have never owned a BMW, although I have driven many, admired them all my life, have a lot of knowledge of and experience with cars, and my next car will be a 330Ci (or maybe even a 325ti). Anyway, all the issues that are related to BMW's posted above are justifiable, and in any case who cares. Here's my reason's for the problems:

OEM Factory Brake pads (not rotors nor calipers): manufactured for the masses by a select few companies, all having wear problems. Get over this, as a matter of fact most cars have this problem, it's just like many factory battery problems (in case you haven't heard of them).

steering wheel shimmy: Big wheels, low profile tires, and dings caused by curves can cause this. It's called responsive steering to everything underneath (even a slight imperfection in the wheel). Get a real tire co to balance the wheel and you won't notice it unless your rim is elliptical. I also believe there is some true problems with these though (especially some of the metric sizes they like to use - mostly tastes though).

Auto Transmission problems: All that needs to be said is "General Motors Auto Transmission?"

rattles and squeaks: Frame-less windows are the culprits in this department, all cars with these have this problem. It's a drawback to have this problem, but the advantage is an increase in body rigidity for the great canyon carving BMW's are known for. If you like the handling, then get over the windows. You just simply need to get the dealer to readjust the windows on occasion (the internal door components tend to loosen up and the window tends to roll differently, it's a mandatory break in period).

Thermostat failure: see brakes

Clutch problems: The clutch is known to be one of the best in the industry, if it has some flaws, you can't expect perfection. It's another one of those you can't have everything (great performance, some drawbacks)

Ticking Engine noise and Engine knock: Most if not all DOHC engines have these problems, DOHC creates more power although has noise drawbacks. If you like the power, get over this, it's inevitable and normal. I've had DOHC engines make noise from day 1 (actually one month old) and go 100k miles (as is reads today) and never have a problem.

warning lights coming on, and car stalling: merely random failures, acceptable due to the amount of electronics in the car. Too few occurrences of these to mean anything.

THE BOTTOM LINE:
Take the car as a whole, compare it to others, then make a decision for yourself. BMW's don't have their reputation, and hundreds upon hundreds of awards, for not being one of the best. Pricey (for their respective classes), but one of the best.

P.S. Anybody know any information on the new 325ti? It's specs? It's HP to weight ratio? It's expected performance? It's sounds practical and a lot of fun.

mitsugst · March 2001

I forgot to mention that the stereos are lacking. I feel that BMW doesn't want an image of being loud and obnoxious and so the stereos reflect that. This also keeps us from ruining the stereos by playing them to loud. If what was posted previously:
"...salesman reporting that BMW has instructed dealers to replace the amp "on customer complaint" ..."
the stereos could have greater potential, and all that is lacking is a stronger amp to re-capture that potential.
If this is true I am definitely set on buying a BMW as my next car, as this was my only real complaint (and what a complaint??).

div2 · March 2001

Do you have any proof to support your assinine claim?

ccotenj · March 2001

let me guess. you drive an accord, right?

-Chris

hicaira · March 2001

You give smoothrunning too much credit. An Accord? Try Razor scooter.

HiC

div2 · March 2001

Or maybe a Big Wheel...

lev_kuznetsov · March 2001

the automatic transmission on bmw is made by ZF. when did GM made a 5 speed trick automatic tranny and still uses 4-speed in everything, even caddys and opels. do me a favor, don't smoke: it's bad for you

div2 · March 2001

I hate to admit it, but BMW does use some GM autoboxes in their cars. My wife's E36 has one. You're right on the five speeds, they are ZF- but the later four speeds are GM.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2001

European car companies have used American automatic transmissions for some time...often they do make changes internally, and some even build a new case. Rolls Royce and Volvo also come to mind.

thor8 · March 2001

I just have a question, since when is Finland a third world country? I been there, it makes one humble.

hicaira · March 2001

I guess Smoothrunning considers Nokia part of the third world economy.

HiC

lokki · March 2001

Just curious - Which models of South African BMWs are being delivered to the states?

And actually, what is that supposed to tell us anyhow?

There are BMWs being made in North Carolina; does that have some meaning?

onesweet3 · March 2001

I own a 2000 BMW 3 series convertible with the sport package. Is anyone else experiencing air bubbles in their tires? If so please let me know.

michaelg5 · March 2001

Would appreciate some educated guesses. The interior fan switch on my late model 5 series has been intermittently malfunctioning. Seems to have a mind of it's own. Any guesses? MG

jgknudtson · March 2001

You are correct, but your information is totally misleading. I know, because I made an offer on a BMW 3-series last year to a dealer who refused it because it was manufactured in S. Africa. He said the S. African cars are for dealer use only (demos, loaners, etc) and ARE NOT to be sold to the public. I subsequently bought a new 2000 328i and have not had ONE problem you cited. Not one. You are obviously a troll, I hope people realize that.

smoothrunning · March 2001

It is from the Rosslyn plant north of johannesburg

the plant is dedicated to e46 production for export for the usa, austrailia, europe

if the 11th digit of the VIN is an "N" it is S. african, also the ag code AN37 denotes the S, african BMW's.

Production started for us export in 10/00 so it is pretty recent..

knudtson, s. african bmw's were used for fleet up to last year, now they are for the unwary public.

Also I heard reports that S. african BMW's have have a Made By BMW rather than a Made in germany designation.

I'll pass

lokki · March 2001

Please explain EXACTLY what the significance of having a BMW made in South Africa is supposed to be.

And how does that compare to having a BMW made in North Carolina?

Details, details please. Tell us exactly what you are trying to say.

Don't try to spare our feelings.

shop2 · March 2001

Does anyone out there have any experience comparing the BMW 330i vs xi. How much is lost in handling? I've read that they're .7 inches higher off the ground, even more, I would assume compared against a sport pkg equipped i. Also, how much is lost in quickness (0 to 60)?
The logical challenger being the new Audi 2002 A4, I'm trying to gather info before buying. Never owned either brand.

thanks, shop2

smoothrunning · March 2001

I would pass.

Obviously the quality is gonna drop because the factories are usually new.

look at porsche making boxsters in third world finalnd.. the initial batch of boxster had engines seizing, engines catching fire etc.

Likewise for the mercedes ML class
it was one of the worst in reliability according to JD Power when it first came out

I am worried that the South carolina plant or the S/ african plant wil cause similar trial and error quality problems. who pays in the end? the consumers..That's what I am worried about

Incidentally, the e46 engines will be produced in england and shipped to the german, u.s. and s. african plant..

And mind you lokki, none of my statements contain any racial conotations whatsoever if that 's what you're worried about.

I am concerned about the decline in quality that could arise from building a plant from scratch in a country that isn't as proficeint as the country where the original car originated.

I do not wish to be a guinea pig for the test cars

bornagain · March 2001

I agree with smootrunnings logic. Same with Japanese cars made in Mexico or whatever. If I buy a BMW I want it primarly assembled in Germany. If I buy a Lexus/Acura/Toyota etc. I want it assembled in Japan. Not even USA for that matter:>)

Mr_Shiftright · March 2001

Don't go saying bad things about Finland. Those people are VERY tough and they might come looking for you.

Funny you should bring it up, though. My Saab convertible (an older one) was made in Finland and it was a complete rattle trap.

I think the point, however, is this:

Where the car is made, and how that affects quality, is STRICTLY determined by how well the work force is trained and supervised. And I have no way of knowing that, nor do any of us. So I guess it is somewhat of a gamble, and we might presume that a German factory could be better supervised, since it is so close to home.

I mean, I'll confess....if Switzerland made the instruments for the plane I was flying in in Alaska, I'd feel better than if Pakistan made them.

alcan · March 2001

Interesting though, that a U.S. Toyota plant achieved the HIGHEST rating of any auto assembly plant worldwide last year, according to JD Power.

hicaira · March 2001

I would posit that you Saab rattled not as a result of where it was built but rather the fact that it was a Saab.

HiC

lokki · March 2001

The Porsche boxsters assembled in Finland did have some problems, and that the Benz made in the carolinas also did. As long as you're not making some stupid "People from country x can't turn wrenches or something" argument, I have no argument with your point. I also recall that VW wouldn't import cars made in Mexico to the U.S. for a couple of years (93?) because of quality problems. For that matter, VW nearly went under from problems caused by one foreign plant.. in some place called Pennsylvania. In any case, BMWs made in Germany are largely assembled by Turkish workers from what I understand. So much for that misunderstanding; I apologize, Smoothrunning.

I think by the way, I've figured out why SAABS rattle. It's a design thing. Most cars are designed to have tolerances that don't have rattles at normal temperatures, but rattle when the weather gets cold or too hot. Well, SAABs are designed by the Swedes who expect the temperatures to go down to -20 but never expect the temp to get above about 40 degrees F maximum. So when you put a SAAB in 90 degree weather the gaps get huge. Or maybe it's supposed to be some sort of entertainment system.

silvernubira · March 2001

Very interesting alcan! My 1998 Camry was made in Kentucky and it was the worst quality car I ever owned. I was told by the Toyota service manager that left rear windows on a large number of Camrys were not installed properly and they rattled practically all the time, and Toyota could never fix the one on mine (this is the only item among many they attempted to fix). Suspension always rattled and "knocked" and they did not even try to fix it. There were other problems, mostly due to "cheap outsourcing" or inferior quality materials used in the manufacturing of the car. Toyota had no interest in fixing the problems. Their own arbitrator told them to fix the problems. Toyota ignored his decision. When they lost the State Arbitration, they bought back the car.

alcan · March 2001

My mistake. The Gold and Bronze Award winning North American automotive assembly plants were Toyota here in Ontario, Canada. Check the link:

http://www.jdpa.com/studies/winners.asp?StudyID=410&CatID=1

MarkinAtlanta · March 2001

Platinum award for best overall plant worldwide, tie between Toyota-Tahara, Japan & GM-Flint, Michigan

http://jdpa.com/studies/winners.asp?StudyID=286&CatID=1

GM in Flint Michigan?

MarkinAtlanta · March 2001

Checked your profile, what's a forensic mechanic?

alcan · March 2001

Forensic mechanics inspect vehicles after fatal, personal injury, or substantial property damage accidents if mechanical failure is claimed or suspected as a contributing factor.

P.S. Thanks for the platinum award link. That's the one I was trying to find.

MarkinAtlanta · March 2001

Wow, that is a pretty sobering thought. Thanks.

alcan · March 2001

It's off topic but most recent was a Ranger PU in a head-on. Inspection determined that the right front spindle had worked it's way out of the steering knuckle prior to impact, causing loss of steering control. Dangerous driving and 2 counts of criminal negligence causing bodily harm were dropped.

Honest, Mr. Shiftright, I'm outta here......... :-)

arzemc2 · March 2001

It is obvious he/she is saying they would like their German Car made in Germany. Could be because quality of Product in South Africa is not known yet or simply a matter of German Car made in Germany is what he would like to buy.

bornagain · March 2001

arzemc2: It is obvious why u have e=mc2 in your username (the = is inferred). You understand exactly!
Would you want your Rolex made in Africa?
Not knocking USA or S.Africa but as arzemc2 so aptly put it the "quality of product is not known yet". Germany has put out quality BMW's for years. How many has S.africa or USA?
BTW...I don't even belong in this forum. I have an e36. Sorry!

shipo · March 2001

Hey Gang,

Just a couple of items:
1) After 25K miles my E46 has suffered only 2 unscheduled squawks, two burned out tail lights. I can live with that. ;-)

2) Regarding the early brake jobs I have read about here, there is another possibility, a dealer SCAM.

A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a used 3 series (probably an early E36), and I gave it a complete once over (ie. Plugs, Filters, Belts, Hoses and Brake Pads). Soon after, she took it into a dealership due to a squeak comming from the rear axle area.

The next day they calld her and told her that she needed all new Hoses, Belts and Brakes at all four corners! She did not know all that I had done on the car, and so she approved the work. Later that day she told me about the work being done on her car. I was stunned! I drove her over to the dealership and asked to see the old parts. The service manager promptly went around the shop to the discard barrels and pulled out some very old belts, hoses and very worn brake pads and showed them to us.

I told him that I had just replaced all of those parts and I wanted to look in the barrels myself. When I did, I found the new hoses and belts in there, they had been cut off with a knife! However, I found no new brake pads. I looked at the car and could see that the rotors had not been newly "turned" (contrary to what the service manager told me). Long story short, it took two years and a law suit to get it all sorted out.

The moral of this story, CHECK THE OLD PARTS!

As for my car, it has virtually of it's miles in and around NYC in heavy traffic. I will check the brakes this weekend to see how much of the pads remain, might be interesting. Stay tuned.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mike348 · March 2001

I agree that the problem is with the mechanic, not the car. IMO, the best way to get a reliable car is to keep it away from mechanics and dealers.

Unless you get a brake warning light, hear the wear indicators or get pulling/pulsing under heavy deceleration, don't mess with your brakes. When time comes, replace those pads yourself (with a friend or shop manual if nessesary).

You will understand how elegant and reliable the system is. You will feel much more at ease with the car.

You will also see quality materials that can easily take the enviornment they are in and that do not need normal replacement.

tclub · March 2001

I've had it since it was new, '83 320S with 99,000 miles. All of a sudden it won't idle??? As soon as it warms up, it'll idle so low it cuts off. When you're driving it runs great, seems fine until you go to stop and it'll idle down and cut off. Ideas???

thanks, jim s

mheifets · March 2001

how much REAL difference in handling,safety,braking can one get from increasing tire/wheel sizes in otherwise identical vehicle?

Mr_Shiftright · March 2001

You've cracked the rubber bellows between the air filter and the intake manifold, underneath where you can't see it...put some duct tape on it and shop around for a new one...they are pricey.

kmeinke · March 2001

I must be lucky but I have a 96 Saab 900 SE Turbo with over 100,000, and it is one of the best cars I have ever had. previous cars include BMW's, Acura, Honda, Volvo and Volkswagon

My wife's new car is a BMW 325 Xi Touring Wagon. I will trade in or sell my 2000 Jetta and keep the Saab

bornagain · March 2001

I've asked the same question on several forums and have yet to get an answer. I would be interested in opinions also!

shipo · March 2001

Before I bought my 1999 328i with the Premium Package, I read lots of advice on the various BMW news groups and message boards regarding the absolute necessity of ordering the Sport suspension. I got the impression that it would be a personal affront to the pundits if I did not opt for said package. So, I drove both the Sport and the Premium cars, and ordered my car without the Sport. Here are my impressions:

Handling: There are some very curvy roads here in the Bergen County, NJ / Rockland County, NY area, this provided ample opportunity to play in the twisties. Subjectively speaking, the only difference I was able to notice was a slight increase in body roll with the non-Sport equipped car. The actual ability to negotiate corners and curves seemed to be virtually identical; even when pushed well beyond what the local constabulary would consider acceptable.

Ride: During my test drives I did notice that the slightly firmer spring rates on the Sport equipped vehicle yielded a noticeably bumpier ride.

Intangibles: My previous car was a 1995 Passat GLX with low profile tires mounted on BBS wheels from the factory. During four years of driving in and around NYC, I encountered a fair number of LARGE potholes. Truism: The lower profile the tire, the higher the likelihood of bending a rim. I bent several.

My recommendation; test drive both packages. This is a decision YOU must live with for at least a few years. In the end, the package you choose is simply a matter of personal preference. Ultimately, I did not buy the Sport option simply due to the fact that I did not want to find myself buying new alloy wheels from BMW.

NOTE: In the two years since my car was delivered, I have not bent a rim (some kind of record for me), and I have only one regret regarding the Sport package: the Sport wheels are easier to keep clean as they have fewer nooks and crannies.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tclub · March 2001

Mr. Shiftright - Checked the bellows all way around, it's intact and clamps are tight. Any other ideas on what could cause this? Car sits a lot, could it have moisture in the tank or something else? thanks, Jim

BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

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