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Also, I disagree that the Sienna is bland. I think it's the best-looking minivan yet, better than the overwrought new Quest, crisper than the DC vans, sleeker than the MPV and Ody. But I think the MPV is hands-down the best short-wheelbase van out there, and it fills a niche that Toyota and Honda don't seem to want to address.
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?szc=&srv=parser&act- =display&tf=/features/2002overview/vans/vans.tmpl
So I succumbed to be a mini-man for another 7 years or so...it's ok;-)
An SUV that will get us 3 rows of seats and the same cargo room are just too expensive.
While I mostly just need some decent cargo room, I just have a hard time giving up the 3rd set of seats for when the whole family wants to go somewhere. I'm tired of taking 2 cars. So even a large sedan doesn't seem to make much sense.
So as much as we're trying to avoid a van, we keep coming right back to it when we look at price, performance, storage, seating, the whole deal.
At least the MPV is kind of the anti-minivan, minivan and for the price it's hard to beat.
But a shorty mini-van offers a little of all we want, except the "image". And a used one (the only way I can afford one) cost much less than a used SUV. And, as we love travelling, a mini with rear two seats out would give us plenty of room to stretch out, once in a while. Please correct me if I am wrong here with the flatness of the area and the length.
Now to find a mini I can afford...That's totally another ball game :-)
We did a 6 month road trip in our SWB Voyager and a 10 month road trip in our Quest but never slept in either one (too much junk to take out every night if we did that). But at 5'10" I could have done that, and it's certainly flat enough. Six footers may find it cramped.
Steve, Host
As a rule, I don't let Madison Avenue do my thinking for me. They're not your friends, and they aren't looking out for your interest.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Buy what you like. Buy what fits your needs. But don't buy what your neighbor thinks you need to be cool.
'nuff said.
While I am still waiting for my MPV to arrive, so cannot be considered an "expert" on MPVs, my first guess is that 3 kids would not do well with an MPV, since it is a smaller-type minivan, if you plan to haul cargo and camping gear. We have one kid (age 4) and plan for a second someday, but no more. That leaves us to use the 3rd row seat however we want. My $0.02.
tccmn1, what was the manufacturing date of your MPV? Mine was 1/17/03, even though I ordered on 12/9/02. The story I was given was that they didn't manufacture mine right away because they thought they would tweak one already at the port. Then I guess when they found out they didn't have a close match (DVD on an LX), they ordered it from the factory. Someone earlier posted that such orders go through on the 15th of every month, so I guess they didn't check the port inventory in time to order it for the December deadline. ETA is around the end of February.
Wouldn't it be cool if ours were on the same boat? Probably not.
David
In order to carry a lot of camping gear I would suggest getting the roof rack and a roof mounted cargo box to maximize cargo room.
I really don't know the mfg.date on it. They just told me the ETA is 2/11. Yeah, I was told the story of the 15th of the month syndrome with Mazda. I ordered on 10/21 and just missed it so it added another month to the wait.
Maybe they WILL come in together..that would be a funny.
Anyone here have concern about the sulfur smell problem with gas and the MPV? The other thread is loaded with chat about this dubious honor that seems to have hit MPV, Tributes, and some late model Camry's too. Something like the old catalytic converter issues of years ago....
I know I could remove my second row captains in my DC Shorty Sport and put the rear bench in the middle too. Mini's DO offer good space and value when compared to SUV's...at least right now. Good to hear from others that the MPV has better cargo space than the DC Short Sport; which I have. I'm looking forward to it.
7,000 miles on our 02 LX this week. ( delivery 10/2/02 )
Flawless so far. Not one issue. Running Mobil 1 5W-30 now.
MPG is around 21 with 60/40. VERY HAPPY!!!
Mark.
p.s. MUCH BETTER in the snow than we were expecting.
But anyway, I would expect the MPV to be pretty good depending on the tires.
BTW, what are the stock tires on the 2003 LX if anyone knows?
It only has rear A/C and no other add-ons. We were wondering how important people feel the traction control is? It's standard on the Odyssey LX (our other option) and an add-on for the MPV LX. We live in Denver and can see heading up the mountains for some skiing once the boys get a bit older. Plus, Denver doesn't believe in plowing since the snow melts within 2 days. My wife is worried about getting a car without traction control since we have heard minivans don't handle great in the snow. (Relative to other cars)
When you get done with all the option add-ons like the all weather package, the rear A/C, the traction control, the price difference between the two cars narrows. Honda's done much better about getting the Ody's to you quickly and there seem to be more available. We love both the Ody and the MPV and see reasons for both. Right now, the used MPV looks like a great deal, except for the traction control. Otherwise, a new Ody or MPV (LX version of each) seem like a toss - up. Any thoughts on the traction control and the choices?
If you live in Denver, this is a no brainer. Get the traction control. There are two types of traction control, good and crappy. The MPV has the good type (it also retards the engine to prevent wheel slip). Crappy systems only use the brakes to control the slipping wheel(s) and basically with that system the engine and the brakes battle it out with you in the middle.
For GOD sakes, GET THE TRACTION CONTROL
Just my $0.02 :-)
God's sake notwithstanding, how does your Accord handle in the snow ? If you're basically pleased with the front-wheel drive of the Accord, then you'll probably find the MPV not too different. Your Accord weighs nearly as much, and has a similar wheel base and track width. The amount of weight over the drive wheels is also pretty close. I would not expect a huge difference in handling under slippery conditions, all else being equal.
Traction control is not AWD. It only works at very slow speeds (<15 mph I believe), like when you're just pulling away from a light. Going up a slick hill, slowly, as in the final mile to your destination in the mountains, sure. Going up I-70 at 30-40 mph in the slick, no.
An investment in high-grade tires, perhaps a second set of dedicated winter tires for those snowy trips into the hills when the time comes, will have a far larger impact on your driving safety in winter than traction control ever will. Note that numerous independent tests have even shown that front-wheel drive cars equipped with dedicated snow tires outperform AWD cars equipped with all-seasons. Tires are a critical, and often overlooked part of the equation.
The savings you see buying used will easily pay for a second set of tires, and rims to mount them on (so that you can easily switch without mounting and unmounting the tires to the rims).
That said, would I personally get traction control on my MPV if money were no object ? Yes. Is it a deal killer ? That depends.
A lot of considerations flow into the decision to buy a vehicle. Both the Ody and MPV are great vans, each with their strengths and weaknesses. I would do exactly what you've apparently been doing: think hard about how you think you will use the van, how long you will have it, what features you value most, and then buy the van that fits you best. There a lot of other extras on your list of "desirables" that the used unit doesn't have.
I personally would not buy an Ody because it is simply too big. I don't like the ride or the handling as much. The MPV is "tossable", the Ody is a bus, but that's what it's supposed to be. It just depends on your needs.
Hope this helps,
-brianV
The longer wheelbase on the MPV will act to reduce the load on the front wheels (reducing traction), but increase the resistance to spinning out (swapping ends if the tail comes out in a turn). Since the Accord is lighter overall (reducing its traction too), it's hard to say without comparing actual axle weight ratings (available on the door tire sticker if you're so inclined).
Take a test drive into the mountains with a traction control equipped MPV, find a slippery stretch of road, and try it out. You can turn the traction control on and off (dashboard switch) to compare.
Everything else I said about traction control above still applies.
Hope this helps,
-brianV
We went out this morning and bought the 02 MPV. It's a really good deal over a new Ody or MPV though it is modestly equipped --but it suits our needs to a T. We test drove the Ody last night and the MPV this morning (2nd test for us on the MPV) and my wife agrees with you. The Ody is a bus. Tons of room for long drives and relatives who are large-ish, but the MPV handles very nicely and nimbly. Much more like a car. We love it and think we will be very happy.
One last question. The '02 came with 15" wheels standard and the 16" were upgrades. The '03s have the 16" standard and allow you to upgrade to 17". How important is tire size and why do people swap up? Is safety an issue? The one we got has the 15" wheels and we will likely keep 'em unless someone makes a compelling agrument I have so far missed.
Thanks again for all your help!
As to tire size, no it's not a safety issue, it's a handling issue. I suppose you could make a case for the handling prowess being a safety issue, but only if you drive near the limits regularly.
The overall diameter of the tire (rim + sidewall height) is normally kept the same on any vehicle (the MPV is an exception, more on that in a moment). Changing from 15" rims to 16" rims therefore implies reducing the sidewall height, which is called "profile" by the industry. Low-profile tires (on bigger rims) have shorter, stiffer sidewalls, which improves handling, but makes for a stiffer ride. The stiff sidewalls absorb less of the shock when you roll over a bump.
Low-profile tires are usually wider, which contributes to better handling as well. The wider tires look sportier too.
Wider tires offer more traction on dry roads, but potentially less traction on wet roads (hydroplaning risk - tread design and depth will have a decisive impact) or on snowy roads (float). Many folks with low-profile summer tires go with a downsized rim (15" instead of 16") with a narrower tire for their dedicated winter tires. The narrow tires tend to sink down through deep snow and grip better.
The MPV ES is unusual in that it uses the same profile spec on the 17" rims as it does on the 16" rims. This means that the speedometer has to have 2 program settings to accomodate the difference in tire circumference. If you price tires for 17" rims, you will discover that tires in those sizes are harder to find (less choice) and significantly more expensive.
You might consider keeping the 15's for your winter tires and buying a set of 16's for your 3-season tires when you're ready to switch. Then you'd have the best of both worlds.
-brianV
My 1995 Legend LS Coupe had all speed traction control, my 1999 STS had all speed, and if I remember correctly, my 03 TL-S has all speed.
I called Mazda's hotline.
The MPV traction control system cuts out at 30 mph, so I was off a bit. My apologies to everybody - I should have looked it up.
-brianV
I'd also like to thank everyone for answering the tons of questions I had over the last few months. Forums such as this from "real owners" and much more valid for me than any auto magazine.
Lynda
along with Lx, i have added the following options
1. roof rack
2. power moonroof
3. power sliding doors
4. side air bags and traction control
5. 4 seasons package
6. GFX sport package
7. Rear a/c and Rear Stepping plate.
8. Wheel lock.
is this a good deal for the price?
please post reply or email to
aravind74@sify.com
what price did u pay for ur MPV?
thanks
Otherwise, I'd need to know the tax rate in your state in order to fully answer the question.
Going for Finance 4.15% apr from CREDIT union for 5 years. bcos 4 years is too much for us to pay. But still applied for Ford Credit and will take if it is below 4.15% over 5 yrs
mpvowner3
Thanks for the status report, Bottgers.
Steve, Host
I'm also getting the $2000 rebate too! I'll let you know how I like it once I get it. My old DC has been trusty for 8 years - 171K miles...but it's time to move on...zoom-zoom-zoom.
Automakers not ready to give up on minivan yet (Pittsburg Tribune-Review)
I really should cross-post that last sentence in SUV vs. Minivans :-)
Steve, Host
David
Congrats and Enjoy your vehicle as we do now. Proud owners of MPV 03 LX.
mpvowner3
We purchased a very loaded 2002 LX for $19,985!
Cost for warranty - 7 yrs. 100K was $1500 now.
They claimed it would be over $2K to wait until 50K miles to add it on. This is the TRUE MAZDA warranty too! Not some after market deal.
I always error on the side of being overly cautious...maybe foolish at times...but I've been burn't before and have always gone with extendeds on Toys and DC's and have always come out ahead on the expense.
Zoom-Zoom