Mazda MPV

big_guy · April 2003

I have to agree with Javadoc on the Ford ownership thing. I am under the impression that Ford owns controlling interest in Mazda which translates into the 33.4% of Mazda stock. I have read this in numerous other posts at Edmunds and a few others (although I can't remember which others off the top of my head).

tboner · April 2003

That should settle the Ford Ownership issue.

TB

javadoc · April 2003

...and then some and nothing says that Ford ever bought out Mazda more than 33.4%, in the mid-90s. But, I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

I'd just be utterly stunned/ floored/ hoodwhacked/ verklempt if I had missed Ford buying the remaining ownership in Mazda. But... I what do I know, right?

That, and I'm trying to illustrate that people have a misconception of the Mazda brand. So what if it has a motor made by Ford. You'd be shocked what iron is under some the hoods of some vehicles, past and present. In addition, has has there been a decrease in quality and/or reliability in Mazda's product that can be shown to be b/c of Ford's interest in the company? I doubt it. From what I've observed, Mazda has been and is its own company, although there's a bigger partner involved. Has Ford's ownership of Jag lessened the marque? Some would argue it has. I think that Jag has lost some of it's 'passion,' but their product has improved. I wouldn't buy one, but they're better than they've been in decades. Rover has improved w/Ford's ownership, albeit with some downsides in what I've seen in trim and minor items.

I just don't see how Ford can be a bad thing. However, I won't be buying a car w/a blue oval in the forseable future, for reasons that mainly are due to dealership experience and not the product I've owned.

glideslopes · April 2003

Nice to see a half dozen or so consecutive posts by you!

Much nicer than the usual 33.4% we are used to.

Mark. ; )

javadoc · April 2003

LOL Mark. Sue me... but I closed the month early, so I was bored and needed some filler time, and the automotive news leads are slow at this time, so I can't inundated you w/ that, at 'the site that shant be named.'

Besides, I just can't sit idly by, can I?

I somehow came back to TH... just when you think you're out... they pull you back in! Gee, I wonder what my post count is here, after 4+ yrs.

<content> What does this all have to do w/how many cases of Star$ an MPV can hold?

sweet_subie · April 2003

where can i get a good Navigation System installed for my 02 MPV ? any suggestions ?

javadoc · April 2003

Alpine makes some very nice DVD-based NAV equipment, but not specifically for the MPV. The JDM market cars have it as a factory option, but I forget what memory form factor it's based on. I doubt you'd find anything OEM that'll work in the States... so your best bet is a good Alpine unit like something from CarNAV.com or an Alpine NVE-N852A>

beanboy · April 2003

Many of the platforms, engines and transmissions are going to be shared across Ford's product line. New Mazda3/Focus/S40 all using the same platform for example. It's going to happen more and more as Ford tries to cut costs.

-B

edle777 · April 2003

Excellent post by lawlee. I disagree slightly about the abundance of MPVs on the road though. I think they are more popular here (Canadians in general like the smaller vans and SUVs) but there are many more Odys and Siennas. I don't think Canada is much different from the U.S. in that Mazda (and Nissan) rank a distant 3rd or 4th in most peoples' minds when considering Japanese.

Anyway, I'm currently shopping for an MPV and the dealer has offered me a $650 rebate on an LX. Of course, the rebates are different here than down south. Still I'm curious why Edmunds lists two rebates: one for $2000 and one for $500. Naturally I'm interested in when the $2000 applies and whether something similar in Canada exists. Steve, can you help with this?

I checked the manufacturing sticker on the particular MPV I'm looking at and it was made in "09/02". So it looks like it's been on the lot for 6 mths or so. I figure I can get a lot more taken off than $650. I am planning to make a counter-offer within a day so wish me luck.

edle777 · April 2003

The MPV is a great van. It is the best choice for our family. I think it's the best choice for most people who don't need the size of the Ody and new Sienna. But like I said, when a lot of people think Japanese, they tend to only think Honda and Toyota.

bsvoller · April 2003

I'm not sure whether Ford ownership, such as it is, is good, bad or indifferent. I haven't seen anything about them buying the rest of Mazda either, but does it really matter? They have a controlling interest, which means that Mazda is not technically an independent brand anymore.

I think the distinction between "wholly owned" and "controlling interest" is a pretty fine one. Mazda can't go off and do what they like without the mothership's OK, and the mothership has interests and concerns that aren't Mazda's some of the time (2.5l engine comes to mind...).

Welcome to global consolidation. That can mean that the parent leaves them a long 'leash', provides capital, buying power, distribution network, etc, but doesn't get involved to the point of diluting the brand, or it can mean the brand identity gets so watered down as to become meaningless. It depends on management, and on Mazda's success, of course. No better way to gain independence and lengthen your 'leash' than by being really successful.

So far, Mazda has been on a rampage, product quality is up, they've successfully introduced a raft of exciting new products, and re-discovered a clear image. That's all good. In fact, I'd have an easier time telling you what Mazda stands for than what Ford stands for, frankly, which is critical to the brand's success. And of all of Ford's brands, they prolly have the best overall quality, especially if you don't count the rebadged Fords (Tribute, B2000).

In general, consolidation seems to mean that there's less risk-taking and brands grow more alike, i.e. bland, which in my personal view is a net loss. Once upon a time, Mercury was a force to be reckoned with. Now they're just pricier Fords, and soon to be axed, IIRC. If Volvo and Jaguar aren't careful, the same thing will happen to them.

GM is far worse in this respect mind you. I have to chuckle at the guy in his Cadillac Escalade. It's just a gussied up Chevy Yukon, who are you kidding ? They're pouring jillions into marketing to fight that problem, and to some extent people will believe what you tell them if you tell them often enough. But you're not going to threaten the brands which sell to the discriminating buyer with a lot of hype, on the contrary, you'll just drive them in the other direction. It's not real.

Cadillac is desperate to reinvent itself. The average age of their buyers was 65 a few years ago. Oldsmobile's on the way out, Buick will be next, Saab's on life-support. It's sad, really.

Now that the Japanese brands have declared their intent to go after the big truck market in the U.S., Ford and GM had better watch out. That's the last segment they dominate, and the only one where they make real money.

The Duratec is a fine engine, and the MPV a fine mini-van, one of the very best, and the only one sold in this country built in Japan. It's not meant to be the biggest seller, and won't be. That's OK. Mazda has to be a niche player and stick to its identity to survive. And it looks like they'll be around a good long while.

-brianV

stever · April 2003

The $500 rebate can be used with the special 2.9-3.9% financing. If one goes with the $2,000 rebate, you can't take advantage of the cheap financing offer. I've never heard of a good free source for Canadian specific pricing and incentive info, althought there are one or two pay sites out there I guess.

btw, I drove through Alberta from north to south earlier this month, and all I saw were trucks!

Good luck shopping.

Steve, Host

lsinc · April 2003

bsvoller about Mazda. I have searched both Mazda and Fords sites and can't see where they mention 100% ownership of Mazda. I do see that Mazda (not all models) are in the Ford lineup. MPV is one of them due to the Duratec. This is why I believe that Ford has a little more then a 30% ownership in Mazda.

As to how many MPV's are on the road here in the USA I can only say that I see a few but not like the Ody or Sienna or Chrysler crew. I also see alot of GM mini's i.e. the Venture.

3 Weeks tomorrow sine I brought my MPV home and it has just over 1000 miles on it. We will put approx. 300 on it today going up to MA. It runs like a champ and I love it.

velokid · April 2003

...On a MPV LX, with 4 seasons, traction control, rear AC, and All-Sport package. The dealer said it was nearly impossible to find one with the All-Sport package, so here's hoping I'm not jinxing myself by writing this...

It really looks like Mazda is going through a rebirth of sorts, and the Ford connection IMHO helps both parties. I read an article last week that Ford execs are turning to Mazda for help in figuring out how to slash their "idea to reality" product development lead times. (Mazda is among the best in the industry at ~24 months) And as soon as Mazda makes an updated version of the 323 GTX - a turbocharged awd hatch - I'll have 2 "zoom zooms" in the driveway.

kevria · April 2003

I just got off the phone with Mazda Customer Service and was told that there is NOT a customer rebate in the Northeast (at least).

Kevin

sweet_subie · April 2003

where are you in the northeast.....see the link i posted a few days ago.....in the MAss area they give $5000 below MSRP both on LX & EX.

if not, go to DC area & visit fitzmall.com, for a no-haggle price of 4,000 below MSRP.

kevria · April 2003

I was able to get $1000 below the invoice price on our 2003 MPV LX. A $25015 MSRP MPV cost me $2199.

edle777 · April 2003

$2G without financing? I don't necessarily expect the same rebate in Canada, but I think my salesman's holding out on me if he's only offering $650. I'll have to see how much more I can squeeze out of him. LOL.

crissman · April 2003

Here in the relative flatlands of NC I've had no problem keeping up and leading the march to work and back with my supposedly underpowered 2.5 L '00 MPV. So far the only problem is the idle air valve moaning in the cold (I can now ignore it until next fall). It consistantly gets 22 mpg in mostly highway (beltline) driving and is about to hit 60,000 miles. Zoom Zoom.

tboner · April 2003

You can probably fix that for $0.12. A 1/2" copper cap with a small hole drilled in it will reduce/eliminate "Moosing"

Do a google search for Throttle Hang Fix and Contour and you will probably find some helpful links.

Such as this one http://www.contour.org/FAQ/FAQ.php?s=probs&displayid=3

TB

crissman · April 2003

Thanks for the tip, tboner. Hopefully I'll get ambitious enough before next winter to try the fix.

lsinc · April 2003

I bought my MPV 3 weeks ago in CT and got $2000 cash back. It's $2000 Cash back or 0% financing. I'm not sure when that ends. You can check the mazda site. We took the cash back.

bottgers · April 2003

....there's a drastic increase in MPV sales. The way the economy is, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

tccmn1 · April 2003

It's been a while since I've posted here and wanted to give update on my 03 MPV LX - w/GFX, fogs, power sliders, tow package, 4 season, rear ac, sunroof,roof rack and trac.cnt. - and some questions too.

I DID change my oil at the dealer at 3K miles...old habits hard to break, I know, but what the heck. Had a couple freebies coming anyway.

Still love this machine and getting head nods as I drive by, etc.

1. Engine DOES seem noisy or idling at higher rpm than it really is. 700rpm is suppose to be ok and had it verified at the checkup.

2. I have noticed the irradic, clunk in the transmission at slow speeds when letting off the gas...around 5-10mph...but not all the time. Otherwise, seems to shift like silk. No comparison to my old DC mini and the rough shifts it had.

3.Radio volume; those of you who have the indash 6cd model with cassette; does your volume sound much louder on FM than AM? I've never experienced this in other vehicles. Service said it was 'normal'...? It's at least 3 bars on the volume difference to me.

4. Heat in back on 4 season and front on the thermostat; Seems to take a longer time to get heat to the back than in front. Also seems to not heat up until the dial is pushed well past half way on the front vents. Anyone experience this yet?

Otherwise, I still love it and it is a joy to drive. Never thought it would be this good before I got it. Hope it lasts about 8 years or so for me. Zoom-Zoom

For those of you contemplating ordering one - cause I did; be prepared for at least a 3-4 month wait...no matter what the sales person says.

Thanks for any feedback on the Q's above.

kimandmark3 · April 2003

Hi all,
I started looking at buying a minivan recently and stumbled across Edmunds' townhall discussions. I was initially looking at buying a Sienna but got turned off by reading their "what did you pay?" town hall page. Everyone was paying MSRP or maybe 500-1000 below MSRP for the CE and LE trims. I remembered seeing these Toyota commercials in Birmingham AL that stated they sell all cars $500 over invoice a few months back, and wondered if this applied to the 04 Sienna. A young salesman said he could get it for $700 over invoice but after reading the Sienna town hall page, I thought he was smoking something, and started looking at other minivan alternatives. MPV had these $2000 rebates and many post on this site said you should be able to get $3500-$4000 below MSRP, so I test drove one and liked it. Case closed right? Well today the toyota salesman calls and sure enough has a LE with leather, running boards, and roof rack and will sell it too me for $700 over invoice. By now I like the idea of all the goodies I can get for much less on the MPV so I decline as I wanted a Sienna 8 pax with Package 7. End of story right? No he counters by saying what if I can get you a Sienna the way you want it for $700 over, (Now the Sienna is becoming more tempting) I tell him to call me if he finds one so equipped. So now that the Sienna is back in the running I decide to take a test drive. I call the local dealership to see if they have one and they say they do. I go down there and no one knows where it is. It located close to the Mazda dealer so I decide to head over there to see if there are any MPVs with the options I'm looking for. My salesman has the day off but his boss is in and we begin to talk.
This guy is your dream car salesman. He is blunt, to the point, and most importantly, honest (I know. You're thinking "you sucker!"). First he tells me that if I don't see what I want on his lot then I would get a better deal buying directly from another dealer who has what I want, rather than having him get it from that dealer and sell it to me himself. Then to my utter amazement he shows me his book containing his cost for each vehicle and the dealer hold back (it matches Edmunds). He says he will sale me any MPV on his lot for invoice + $2000 rebate. Obviously that Sienna doesn't look so great now: $3649 more and fewer options. Unfortunately he doesn't have the options I'm looking for but I did find a dealer 75 miles away that does. Unless this dealer is giving the same good deal, I think I would be better off paying him an extra $50 (his estimate) to have him get this MPV and still buy from him.
An 04 Sienna with my bare bones gotta have options at $25859 before tax and tags isn't bad ($700 over invoice is the best I've seen on an LE) but a MPV with 4 season package, traction control/side air bags, power sliding doors, rear air, 6 disc cd changer, GFX package for $22,210 before tax/tags still sounds better to me. I know the Sienna is bigger (146 vs 128 cu. ft.) but I'm not willing to pay $3600 for 21 more cubic feet and less options. The MPV still has more max cargo capacity than a Ford Expedition (128 vs 111 cu. ft).

lsinc · April 2003

I also have an '03 with GFX, traction control, 4 season package, auto. sliders, roof rack, 6 cd changer, rear air and heat, tow package (which is the 4 season) moon roof. Mine I have had for 3 weeks and it will go in next week for the 1500 mile oil change. They also owe me a detailing. I do experience some tranny "roughness" but only when taking off from a stop. Otherwise it is very smooth. This also doesn't happen often and mostly when the car is cold. It's not a concern sine I have driven a car that had tranny issues. 3 different trannies to be exact. I literally left the tranny of that car laying on the road behind me!! LOL!

I've had no stereo issues. The heat I haven't had on too much lately because it's getting warm out. The A/C has given us no probs. but I'm sure that it will take the back just a little longer to cool off.

Otherwise, I too love driving my MPV and noticed that we turn some heads especially when the kids have their back windows rolled down! It's an awesome vehicle! I need to get 10+ years out of mine probably more like 12 since that's when my youngest will start college! YIKES!

lsinc · April 2003

Go for the MPV! Zoom-Zoom!

tomj5 · April 2003

Our MPV is due in Next week. For real this time. 9 weeks order time...
I wonder if the 2K rebate will run into May???
Dealer said I can get whatever rebate is available at Closeing time...
TJ

sweet_subie · April 2003

if you are the getting the the new 04 sienna(230hp), the bigger one, you should take it.....

i would trade my 02 MPV ES with you.

lsinc · April 2003

I went into the Mazda site and the only rebate I could find was for $500. They also are still offering the 0% until the end of April. Someone posted that they called Mazda and were told that there are no rebates at this time. I doubt that the $2000 cash back expired already.

Hopefully your MPV will arrive by Wednesday! Good luck!

Lsinc

audia8q · April 2003

The MPV is going to have an availability issue here in the Northeast in short order....so the buyers in this region need to plan accordingly.

sweet_subie · April 2003

wondering why everyone is worried about 2,000 rebate, when you can comfortably negotiate MPV for 3,000 to 4,000 off MSRP ?

javadoc · April 2003

Just in case your link gets the heave-ho there, Tommy, here's a non 'other site' link for the manual... You never know, so I thought assist...

MPV Owner's Manual 3rd Edition

MPV Owner's Manual 1st Edition

Just do a right-click and save-as action and you're golden.

stever · April 2003

We frown on "promoting" competing auto forums around here; thanks for understanding (it drives the beancounters nuts to give away advertising).

Steve, Host

backy · April 2003

>>> wondering why everyone is worried about 2,000 rebate, when you can comfortably negotiate MPV for 3,000 to 4,000 off MSRP ? <<<

Because $2000 is a lot of money to most people?

sweet_subie · April 2003

i know 2,000 is a lot
are we talking about 3,000 to 4,000 below MSRP that i mentioned + 2,000 rebate, a total of 6,000 ?

fill me in please

backy · April 2003

All the deals I see for $4000-4500 off MSRP on LXes (what I am interested in) include the $2000 dealer cash. I don't think there's enough markup on MPVs to get that big a discount w/o the dealer cash, since these are desirable vehicles albeit in a down market.

tccmn1 · April 2003

Thanks for your feedback. At least it's not just me noticing that jerky start sometimes between 1st and 2nd gears at low end. Again, like you say, it normally shifts smoothly. I too have the DC jitters from 13 years (two vans) Two trannys under Chrys.warranty in the recent past(THANKFULLY!)...so I am a little more conscience of the tranny deals.

I towed my 2200lb sailboat up and down the ramp today for the first time with the MPV and it did well. It seemed to groan a little more than my old DC 3.3 up the ramp, but it moved fine once it got going.

It's heating up here now (Twin Cities) so it will be hard to followup on the rear heating issue...but the kids will keep me informed when it happens.

The ONLY real issue I have, besides that stupid 10foot long shifter handle, is that I wish they had a place for the sunglasses/garage door opener with the moon roof. I have my opener stuck in that sleeve on the visor, but need to reach down in the door pocket for my sun's rather than overhead like in the old DC. I suppose the next generation will have more overhead slots.

Strange you say that you had your oil changed at 1500 miles. My sales guy said I should do it at 7500 miles...but I did it at 3000...it's a habit I have. The sales guy told me that you don't need to change the initial oil at the lower mile amount anymore. I feel better changing it at 3K than 7.5K.
This had been a hot topic on this thread in the past...no one could agree on the right oil change time. I'm going with 3000-5000 for the life of it. Cheap insurance for keeping good lube on the motor.

Finally, what kind of mileage are you getting? I can't push it over 20MPG around town and some freeway time too.

Zoom-Zoom

big_guy · April 2003

I have noticed that the AM dial on my Passat needs to be turned up to match the volume level of the FM stations. I haven't noticed it in our MPV but my wife is the primary driver of the MPV. Whenever I do get to drive the Mazda (road trips or on the weekends) we typically are listening to the CD player or the occassional tape. Not a lot of radio listening.

lsinc · April 2003

You said: "I towed my 2200lb sailboat up and down the ramp today for the first time with the MPV and it did well." What kind of sailboat do you have? We had a 19ft Flying Scot up until we had kids. Traded it for a camper and now are thinking about another boat. Part of the reason we chose the 4 season package on the MPV. =0 )

You Said: "Strange you say that you had your oil changed at 1500 miles. My sales guy said I should do it at 7500 miles...but I did it at 3000...it's a habit I have." Yes, my MPV is going in at 1500 miles actually this Thursday. They will change the oil. I guess part of the reason is that most of the time they get these vehicles in and then they sit on the lot for a bit until someone buys them. Although my MPV only had 10 miles on it, the oil may be on the old side. It's this particular dealerships policy so I'm going for it. They also owe me a detail so they will have it for the day. Also, 7500 miles in any vehicle is way too long. My husband can't stand when he hears that. Every 3,000, that's his policy. That's why we drive our cars for so long. The oil is the "blood" so to say. Let that go and well, might as well kiss the car goodbye!!! We are getting a case of oil filters from the Mazda dealer and my husband will change the oil after this one 1500 miles change.

LOL! Yes, the shifter is a bit long. I have bumped it a few times. I keep my sunglasses where the ashtray would have been. They fit perfectly. I don't have a garage door opener yet. I do have a very nice 2 car garage but since it's an old house (1930's) we need new doors in order to get the openers. That's next on the "honey-do" list.

Ok, Mileage. Hmmmmm, it's been climbing. We went on a trip and got 25 mpg. Around town I started with 18 mpg and this past time it was up to 20 mpg. I'm due to fill up today so I will post the results later. My husband feels it will steadily climb until the engine breaks in. I also have been playing around with overdrive vs. no overdrive so that could be some of it.

I'll post later.

Lsinc

Zoom-Zoom!

tomj5 · April 2003

I got an email from Mazda corp that the 2000.00 rebate will end on April 30. There are no plans at this time to extend it. But they left the option open.
So, I got on the horn with the dealer and he said my car is due thursday May 1(9 weeks delivery time). The dealer let me pay for the car today. Therefore I got the rebate. YESSSS!!!
2000 bucks is 2000 bucks. That will buy my new Michelin 80K tires plus some mats and window tinting with some bucks left over for bike racks...
TJ

lsinc · April 2003

22 MPG. Not bad considering it was 1/2 tank up and back to NH from CT and the rest was around town.

Lsinc

Zoom-Zoom!

tccmn1 · April 2003

My boat is a San Juan 22ft. made by Clark Boatworks in Seattle. It's about 22 years old too! More of a daysailer type. Small cabin that CAN sleep 4.We go out on the St. Croix river (between MN. and WI.) usually. This was the earliest I had ever gone out in the season around here. Usually, the ice is just going out..ha-ha. Oh yeah, this is an MPV thread, not about boating!;-))

Again, I noticed a little more grunting as I took off up the ramp incline than I use to in the old DC 3.3. But it may have to do with torque, etc. It really didn't seem to dog out or anything.

I may be pushing the pedal more than I should causing the mileage to hold around 20MPG's. But I like the ZOOM it has and feel I just gotta do it!

On the tuner deal, I guess I'm hearing that other people have noticed a difference in volumes from AM to FM on car radios of all brands. So maybe my old DC just had a poor tuner or something...it was an INFINITY system though.

Drive safe and Zoom-Zoom!

kevria · April 2003

I have no idea what is going on then. A dealer in CT did mention a $2000 rebate but that was after jerking my chain around by changing prices on other things. The dealer in RI said there was no rebate for the MPV which I verified with Mazda itself (seperately). Even Edmunds only shows the 0% financing deal on the website for the MPV.

If there is a $2000 customer incentive then I am going to be a bit pissed with the dealer AND Mazda.

sweet_subie · April 2003

i told you, MA dealer in Quincy gives $5,000 off MSRP.............can't do better than that.

It includes 2,000 rebate.....
http://www.quirkcars.com/specials/imports/mazda.pdf

stever · April 2003

And the $2,000 cash rebate doesn't show up for a RI zipcode here, but it's available elsewhere. link

It would be a good idea to cross-check our info with an email to Mazda or check their webpage (mazdausa.com).

The current rebates/incentives end on April 30 and there's no word on what's going to replace them.

Steve, Host

acedriver · April 2003

How in the world is this Quirk guy offering such low prices ? Does anyone smell a bait-and-switch ? Anyone in the Quincy, MA area can check it out ??

At these prices, it would be well worth flying to MA just to get a van :-)

bottgers · April 2003

There hasn't been a rebate on the MPV for quite some time now. The $2K people have been getting back is dealer cash. Dealer cash doesn't show up on the Mazda page as an incentive because technically, it's not. It's dealer cash for the dealers to do with what they want. Most of them have been offering it as cash back to boost sales.

Mazda is going to tell you the dealer cash deal ends April 30th because it ends on the last day of every month. Then it starts again on the 1st day of the following month. These things run on a month by month basis. There's no way sales has picked up enough on the MPV for dealers to stop giving the cash back. I don't see where sales has picked up at all. Dealer cash will continue to flow until sales comes out of its slump, and that hasn't happened. I'll be so pissed off if they aren't giving the $2K cash back when it comes time for me to pick our new MPV when it comes in in June!

stever · April 2003

For my zip, we say it's customer cash (2K, LX model). We've been wrong before, but we have a column for dealer cash and it's empty.

Thanks goodness we only have one more day to argue about this and then we can move on :-)

Steve, Host

sweet_subie · April 2003

no, they are not honest........but i got the advertised prices from them......

if you wanto to fly........confirm your prices thru online

Mazda MPV

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