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Comments
TB
I'd just be utterly stunned/ floored/ hoodwhacked/ verklempt if I had missed Ford buying the remaining ownership in Mazda. But... I what do I know, right?
That, and I'm trying to illustrate that people have a misconception of the Mazda brand. So what if it has a motor made by Ford. You'd be shocked what iron is under some the hoods of some vehicles, past and present. In addition, has has there been a decrease in quality and/or reliability in Mazda's product that can be shown to be b/c of Ford's interest in the company? I doubt it. From what I've observed, Mazda has been and is its own company, although there's a bigger partner involved. Has Ford's ownership of Jag lessened the marque? Some would argue it has. I think that Jag has lost some of it's 'passion,' but their product has improved. I wouldn't buy one, but they're better than they've been in decades. Rover has improved w/Ford's ownership, albeit with some downsides in what I've seen in trim and minor items.
I just don't see how Ford can be a bad thing. However, I won't be buying a car w/a blue oval in the forseable future, for reasons that mainly are due to dealership experience and not the product I've owned.
Much nicer than the usual 33.4% we are used to.
Mark. ; )
Besides, I just can't sit idly by, can I?
I somehow came back to TH... just when you think you're out... they pull you back in! Gee, I wonder what my post count is here, after 4+ yrs.
<content> What does this all have to do w/how many cases of Star$ an MPV can hold?
-B
Anyway, I'm currently shopping for an MPV and the dealer has offered me a $650 rebate on an LX. Of course, the rebates are different here than down south. Still I'm curious why Edmunds lists two rebates: one for $2000 and one for $500. Naturally I'm interested in when the $2000 applies and whether something similar in Canada exists. Steve, can you help with this?
I checked the manufacturing sticker on the particular MPV I'm looking at and it was made in "09/02". So it looks like it's been on the lot for 6 mths or so. I figure I can get a lot more taken off than $650. I am planning to make a counter-offer within a day so wish me luck.
I think the distinction between "wholly owned" and "controlling interest" is a pretty fine one. Mazda can't go off and do what they like without the mothership's OK, and the mothership has interests and concerns that aren't Mazda's some of the time (2.5l engine comes to mind...).
Welcome to global consolidation. That can mean that the parent leaves them a long 'leash', provides capital, buying power, distribution network, etc, but doesn't get involved to the point of diluting the brand, or it can mean the brand identity gets so watered down as to become meaningless. It depends on management, and on Mazda's success, of course. No better way to gain independence and lengthen your 'leash' than by being really successful.
So far, Mazda has been on a rampage, product quality is up, they've successfully introduced a raft of exciting new products, and re-discovered a clear image. That's all good. In fact, I'd have an easier time telling you what Mazda stands for than what Ford stands for, frankly, which is critical to the brand's success. And of all of Ford's brands, they prolly have the best overall quality, especially if you don't count the rebadged Fords (Tribute, B2000).
In general, consolidation seems to mean that there's less risk-taking and brands grow more alike, i.e. bland, which in my personal view is a net loss. Once upon a time, Mercury was a force to be reckoned with. Now they're just pricier Fords, and soon to be axed, IIRC. If Volvo and Jaguar aren't careful, the same thing will happen to them.
GM is far worse in this respect mind you. I have to chuckle at the guy in his Cadillac Escalade. It's just a gussied up Chevy Yukon, who are you kidding ? They're pouring jillions into marketing to fight that problem, and to some extent people will believe what you tell them if you tell them often enough. But you're not going to threaten the brands which sell to the discriminating buyer with a lot of hype, on the contrary, you'll just drive them in the other direction. It's not real.
Cadillac is desperate to reinvent itself. The average age of their buyers was 65 a few years ago. Oldsmobile's on the way out, Buick will be next, Saab's on life-support. It's sad, really.
Now that the Japanese brands have declared their intent to go after the big truck market in the U.S., Ford and GM had better watch out. That's the last segment they dominate, and the only one where they make real money.
The Duratec is a fine engine, and the MPV a fine mini-van, one of the very best, and the only one sold in this country built in Japan. It's not meant to be the biggest seller, and won't be. That's OK. Mazda has to be a niche player and stick to its identity to survive. And it looks like they'll be around a good long while.
-brianV
btw, I drove through Alberta from north to south earlier this month, and all I saw were trucks!
Good luck shopping.
Steve, Host
As to how many MPV's are on the road here in the USA I can only say that I see a few but not like the Ody or Sienna or Chrysler crew. I also see alot of GM mini's i.e. the Venture.
3 Weeks tomorrow sine I brought my MPV home and it has just over 1000 miles on it. We will put approx. 300 on it today going up to MA. It runs like a champ and I love it.
It really looks like Mazda is going through a rebirth of sorts, and the Ford connection IMHO helps both parties. I read an article last week that Ford execs are turning to Mazda for help in figuring out how to slash their "idea to reality" product development lead times. (Mazda is among the best in the industry at ~24 months) And as soon as Mazda makes an updated version of the 323 GTX - a turbocharged awd hatch - I'll have 2 "zoom zooms" in the driveway.
Kevin
if not, go to DC area & visit fitzmall.com, for a no-haggle price of 4,000 below MSRP.
Do a google search for Throttle Hang Fix and Contour and you will probably find some helpful links.
Such as this one http://www.contour.org/FAQ/FAQ.php?s=probs&displayid=3
TB
I DID change my oil at the dealer at 3K miles...old habits hard to break, I know, but what the heck. Had a couple freebies coming anyway.
Still love this machine and getting head nods as I drive by, etc.
1. Engine DOES seem noisy or idling at higher rpm than it really is. 700rpm is suppose to be ok and had it verified at the checkup.
2. I have noticed the irradic, clunk in the transmission at slow speeds when letting off the gas...around 5-10mph...but not all the time. Otherwise, seems to shift like silk. No comparison to my old DC mini and the rough shifts it had.
3.Radio volume; those of you who have the indash 6cd model with cassette; does your volume sound much louder on FM than AM? I've never experienced this in other vehicles. Service said it was 'normal'...? It's at least 3 bars on the volume difference to me.
4. Heat in back on 4 season and front on the thermostat; Seems to take a longer time to get heat to the back than in front. Also seems to not heat up until the dial is pushed well past half way on the front vents. Anyone experience this yet?
Otherwise, I still love it and it is a joy to drive. Never thought it would be this good before I got it. Hope it lasts about 8 years or so for me. Zoom-Zoom
For those of you contemplating ordering one - cause I did; be prepared for at least a 3-4 month wait...no matter what the sales person says.
Thanks for any feedback on the Q's above.
I started looking at buying a minivan recently and stumbled across Edmunds' townhall discussions. I was initially looking at buying a Sienna but got turned off by reading their "what did you pay?" town hall page. Everyone was paying MSRP or maybe 500-1000 below MSRP for the CE and LE trims. I remembered seeing these Toyota commercials in Birmingham AL that stated they sell all cars $500 over invoice a few months back, and wondered if this applied to the 04 Sienna. A young salesman said he could get it for $700 over invoice but after reading the Sienna town hall page, I thought he was smoking something, and started looking at other minivan alternatives. MPV had these $2000 rebates and many post on this site said you should be able to get $3500-$4000 below MSRP, so I test drove one and liked it. Case closed right? Well today the toyota salesman calls and sure enough has a LE with leather, running boards, and roof rack and will sell it too me for $700 over invoice. By now I like the idea of all the goodies I can get for much less on the MPV so I decline as I wanted a Sienna 8 pax with Package 7. End of story right? No he counters by saying what if I can get you a Sienna the way you want it for $700 over, (Now the Sienna is becoming more tempting) I tell him to call me if he finds one so equipped. So now that the Sienna is back in the running I decide to take a test drive. I call the local dealership to see if they have one and they say they do. I go down there and no one knows where it is. It located close to the Mazda dealer so I decide to head over there to see if there are any MPVs with the options I'm looking for. My salesman has the day off but his boss is in and we begin to talk.
This guy is your dream car salesman. He is blunt, to the point, and most importantly, honest (I know. You're thinking "you sucker!"). First he tells me that if I don't see what I want on his lot then I would get a better deal buying directly from another dealer who has what I want, rather than having him get it from that dealer and sell it to me himself. Then to my utter amazement he shows me his book containing his cost for each vehicle and the dealer hold back (it matches Edmunds). He says he will sale me any MPV on his lot for invoice + $2000 rebate. Obviously that Sienna doesn't look so great now: $3649 more and fewer options. Unfortunately he doesn't have the options I'm looking for but I did find a dealer 75 miles away that does. Unless this dealer is giving the same good deal, I think I would be better off paying him an extra $50 (his estimate) to have him get this MPV and still buy from him.
An 04 Sienna with my bare bones gotta have options at $25859 before tax and tags isn't bad ($700 over invoice is the best I've seen on an LE) but a MPV with 4 season package, traction control/side air bags, power sliding doors, rear air, 6 disc cd changer, GFX package for $22,210 before tax/tags still sounds better to me. I know the Sienna is bigger (146 vs 128 cu. ft.) but I'm not willing to pay $3600 for 21 more cubic feet and less options. The MPV still has more max cargo capacity than a Ford Expedition (128 vs 111 cu. ft).
I've had no stereo issues. The heat I haven't had on too much lately because it's getting warm out. The A/C has given us no probs. but I'm sure that it will take the back just a little longer to cool off.
Otherwise, I too love driving my MPV and noticed that we turn some heads especially when the kids have their back windows rolled down! It's an awesome vehicle! I need to get 10+ years out of mine probably more like 12 since that's when my youngest will start college! YIKES!
I wonder if the 2K rebate will run into May???
Dealer said I can get whatever rebate is available at Closeing time...
TJ
i would trade my 02 MPV ES with you.
Hopefully your MPV will arrive by Wednesday! Good luck!
Lsinc
MPV Owner's Manual 3rd Edition
MPV Owner's Manual 1st Edition
Just do a right-click and save-as action and you're golden.
Steve, Host
Because $2000 is a lot of money to most people?
are we talking about 3,000 to 4,000 below MSRP that i mentioned + 2,000 rebate, a total of 6,000 ?
fill me in please
I towed my 2200lb sailboat up and down the ramp today for the first time with the MPV and it did well. It seemed to groan a little more than my old DC 3.3 up the ramp, but it moved fine once it got going.
It's heating up here now (Twin Cities) so it will be hard to followup on the rear heating issue...but the kids will keep me informed when it happens.
The ONLY real issue I have, besides that stupid 10foot long shifter handle, is that I wish they had a place for the sunglasses/garage door opener with the moon roof. I have my opener stuck in that sleeve on the visor, but need to reach down in the door pocket for my sun's rather than overhead like in the old DC. I suppose the next generation will have more overhead slots.
Strange you say that you had your oil changed at 1500 miles. My sales guy said I should do it at 7500 miles...but I did it at 3000...it's a habit I have. The sales guy told me that you don't need to change the initial oil at the lower mile amount anymore. I feel better changing it at 3K than 7.5K.
This had been a hot topic on this thread in the past...no one could agree on the right oil change time. I'm going with 3000-5000 for the life of it. Cheap insurance for keeping good lube on the motor.
Finally, what kind of mileage are you getting? I can't push it over 20MPG around town and some freeway time too.
Zoom-Zoom
You Said: "Strange you say that you had your oil changed at 1500 miles. My sales guy said I should do it at 7500 miles...but I did it at 3000...it's a habit I have." Yes, my MPV is going in at 1500 miles actually this Thursday. They will change the oil. I guess part of the reason is that most of the time they get these vehicles in and then they sit on the lot for a bit until someone buys them. Although my MPV only had 10 miles on it, the oil may be on the old side. It's this particular dealerships policy so I'm going for it. They also owe me a detail so they will have it for the day. Also, 7500 miles in any vehicle is way too long. My husband can't stand when he hears that. Every 3,000, that's his policy. That's why we drive our cars for so long. The oil is the "blood" so to say. Let that go and well, might as well kiss the car goodbye!!! We are getting a case of oil filters from the Mazda dealer and my husband will change the oil after this one 1500 miles change.
LOL! Yes, the shifter is a bit long. I have bumped it a few times. I keep my sunglasses where the ashtray would have been. They fit perfectly. I don't have a garage door opener yet. I do have a very nice 2 car garage but since it's an old house (1930's) we need new doors in order to get the openers. That's next on the "honey-do" list.
Ok, Mileage. Hmmmmm, it's been climbing. We went on a trip and got 25 mpg. Around town I started with 18 mpg and this past time it was up to 20 mpg. I'm due to fill up today so I will post the results later. My husband feels it will steadily climb until the engine breaks in. I also have been playing around with overdrive vs. no overdrive so that could be some of it.
I'll post later.
Lsinc
Zoom-Zoom!
So, I got on the horn with the dealer and he said my car is due thursday May 1(9 weeks delivery time). The dealer let me pay for the car today. Therefore I got the rebate. YESSSS!!!
2000 bucks is 2000 bucks. That will buy my new Michelin 80K tires plus some mats and window tinting with some bucks left over for bike racks...
TJ
Lsinc
Zoom-Zoom!
Again, I noticed a little more grunting as I took off up the ramp incline than I use to in the old DC 3.3. But it may have to do with torque, etc. It really didn't seem to dog out or anything.
I may be pushing the pedal more than I should causing the mileage to hold around 20MPG's. But I like the ZOOM it has and feel I just gotta do it!
On the tuner deal, I guess I'm hearing that other people have noticed a difference in volumes from AM to FM on car radios of all brands. So maybe my old DC just had a poor tuner or something...it was an INFINITY system though.
Drive safe and Zoom-Zoom!
If there is a $2000 customer incentive then I am going to be a bit pissed with the dealer AND Mazda.
It includes 2,000 rebate.....
http://www.quirkcars.com/specials/imports/mazda.pdf
It would be a good idea to cross-check our info with an email to Mazda or check their webpage (mazdausa.com).
The current rebates/incentives end on April 30 and there's no word on what's going to replace them.
Steve, Host
At these prices, it would be well worth flying to MA just to get a van :-)
Mazda is going to tell you the dealer cash deal ends April 30th because it ends on the last day of every month. Then it starts again on the 1st day of the following month. These things run on a month by month basis. There's no way sales has picked up enough on the MPV for dealers to stop giving the cash back. I don't see where sales has picked up at all. Dealer cash will continue to flow until sales comes out of its slump, and that hasn't happened. I'll be so pissed off if they aren't giving the $2K cash back when it comes time for me to pick our new MPV when it comes in in June!
Thanks goodness we only have one more day to argue about this and then we can move on :-)
Steve, Host
if you wanto to fly........confirm your prices thru online